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Fancy reading a post from an extremist Nintendo fan over the issue of hardware? Of course you do, this place would be so empty without me (Eminem begins to rap but is promptly shot by Limp Bizkit), and so time to be very biased, opinonistic and argumentative… just as you like it. A recent post from Turbonutter stated the reasons the “Dual Shock” Playstation 2 controller was superior to the Gamecube’s, yet his arguments were simply facts, stuff written on paper, he didn’t comment on the differences in size for buttons, change in the R and L buttons or the additional comfort the controller presents, it isn’t as simple as facts and figures. And this applies similarly to the hardware (I won’t go back over the controller issue), technically the X-box is the superior system, and the Playstation 2 improves over some parts of Cube, but as I say it isn’t that simple.

The major difference being who made the hardware, you can argue till the cows come home over the superior X-box technology but then it isn’t that amazing, it isn’t easily pulled off (they say it is but I can guarantee no one can max out the X-box specification limit) and it is designed by hardware experts. I’m not saying the Gamecube’s hardware wasn’t designed by experts but in fact a different sort. The best sound system devised for the N64 was set up by a company called Factor 5, a company owned by Lucas Arts that make exclusive Star Wars games for Nintendo (Rogue Leader). There talent with sound is evident from the titles they produce and they designed the tools and sound system for the Gamecube, MusyX. Now did a 3rd party developer design the sound interior to the X-box and Playstation 2? No, in fact some may argue a far superior company did and you maybe right, the sound quality may be better on the PS2 but then it was never designed for the developer, it was designed to be the best, not the easiest to use or implement unlike MusyX, which was designed by a developing house who have experience with sound and know full well how it should be done. And with the controller (ok so I lied) it is designed by Shiguru Miyamoto, who knows about the gaming world and how they should be played and in the best way possible (just look at his games), but the PS2’s pad was designed with many functions but there was nothing about the games themselves that caused certain ways of laying out the pad it was done by some guy who makes hardware thinking I know I’ll have two analogue sticks, in built rumble and analogue buttons and lay it out symmetrically, when in fact this is the wrong way to go about it. His/hers experience with making, designing and playing were evidently little as him/her didn’t do anything clever with the pad to make it more enjoyable to use they kept it very bland just so gamers won’t mind it and developers can use it easily… yet the Cube’s one was designed from a designers point of view (and the worlds best at that) and so everything was done from a perfect insight to the gaming world unlike the PS2 and X-box (the X-box in fact used gamers themselves but still didn’t get it right).

Sony has a particular advantage over format, DVD’s are partially Sony’s invention and so they do know how to make the format games are made on. They may be kicking themselves in the teeth with their own success, the popularity of DVD’s enable easy piracy (soon enough). And so Nintendo handed it over to Panasonic a company who are just as much experts as Sony and happen to be developing there own brand of DVD. And I’ll quote something said by a Sony fan playing on the Cube:
“Smart! Midi disc technology”
It was enough to make me smile, reducing loading times, combating piracy, looking smart, reducing console size, introducing new technology into the mainstream market and ok there size isn’t as large as a DVD but in the world of disc gaming that is completely unimportant no matter what Turbonutter says. It is a futuristic new gaming device, which I would love to see more frequently used next time as opposed to DVD’s. So whilst all those others claim to be the best, in reality Nintendo’s Gamecube is a far superior console. Yep it doesn’t look good down on paper but then all this flipper technology, new format, the console being designed by the developer effectively makes it the developers choice.

And with that in mind many many games can and will be done on the Gamecube due to its cleverly designed infrastructure that could never be done on the PS2 or X-box. Whilst PS2 gamers are waiting for Sony and co. to produce anything like that Tekken Demo used to show the console off, Gamecube gamers are playing Pikmin which surpasses what Gamecube’s 128 Mario’s demo did. Just bare that in mind when claiming the Gamecube’s inferiority to other consoles, it is never that simple. And now I wait for Turbonutter to turn up and disagree.

Here’s to the future.

Dringo.

Gornid wrote:
> Tellah wrote:
> Dringo,
> Despite you constantly changing between "PS2 cannot run the new
> RE", and "It's hard to run the new RE on PS2" (which
> is
> it???) - You can keep the RE series for all I care! To be honest,
> I've
> been playing RE's for about 5-6 years now, and it's got repetitive.
> I've been there, completed that, traded it in. If you're prepared to
> buy a re-hashed game for £45, when the original is available
> for
> £5, hmmmmmmm.
>
>
> I am a Sony fan but that is utter rubbish, the RE series has yet to
> reach its peak and so therefore further sequels needs to be produced
> in order to improve, RE1 is not a simple rehash and for a fan
> attacking Nintendo i would hope you did your research. Lets face it
> we're gutted at the loss of such a game, but then again other do get
> to enjoy it at last.


I agree that it's great others will get to play RE1, I played it on a PS1 4 years ago - when it was a revolutionary game. That's my point. It's no longer revolutionary - it's ordinary.
Resi hasn't got the copyrights over zombies you know! I'd rather have something fresh like DMC after playing 4 Resi games already. I enjoyed Silent Hill 2 too (scarier and better plot than any Resi IMO). It'd be nice to have a new Resi on PS2, but I've seen enough of the STARS to make myself play through the games again - even with creepier scenes and more realistic zombies.


>
> But you can play Soul CAlibur 2, Bloody Roar and Smash brothers
> effectivly... i see a flaw in that argument.
>
> You seem to be missing the point. I didn't say you can't play ANY
> game
> effectively. I said you can't play CERTAIN games effectively because
> of the button layout.
> I like to have choice in the buttons I press. Games that offer a
> large
> choice of buttons the gamer can use won't work on GC. You CANNOT
> play
> games like Tekken, Streetfighter, Mortal Kombat on the GC pad.
> Why?? Because each button used in these games has equal weighting,
> none is more important than the other. Nintendo have shot themselves
> in the foot with the design.
> If you see a 'flaw in my arguement', why keep it to yourself? would
> you care to share it with me?
>
> Prat, again you're making massive mistakes, Dringo pointed out that
> similar beat 'em ups already released on the system work fine, why
> shouldn't they? Soul Calibur basically is Tekken anyway.
>

First, don't make this personal. I don't do name calling in a discussion. This ceases to be fun otherwise. Tekken has HIGH punch, HIGH kick, LOW punch, LOW kick. This wouldn't map to the GC's revolutionary "half moon layout" LOL.
And are you saying that I'm making a mistake telling you Streetfighter wouldn't work on the GC pad? LOL. I hope Capcom release it! It'll be harder to control than the GBA version with 4 buttons!

>
> If the PS2 is difficult to make games and music on, then why is
> there
> so much quality available - and at reasonable prices? If it was
> hard,
> then the games produced wouldn't be quality and they wouldn't sell,
> also they would be more expensive.
> Don't come back with the arguement - they have to make the games
> because they have no choice etc. - Oh the poor, poor developers that
> have to work with PS2! Their lives must be hell! They have no choice
> but to develop for PS2! They are forced into work and whipped until
> release day! They work 2x as hard as their GC developing friends!
> LOL.
> Rubbish!
>
> Err huh? The PS2 is a difficult system to understand and use to full
> power similar to the N64 before it. Quality games on the PS2 could be
> far better than they were. First set of games on the PS2 were awful
> compare Tekken Tag to Tekken 4 and you'll see but Gamecube have got a
> decent start already and as a Sony fan i must admit the line up
> Nintendo have this year already set to at least match the massive line
> up Sony have under their belt after 2 years, i am starting to
> understand why Nintendo thing they can sell so much.
>

The games quality is down to personal opinion. The point is there's nothing on the GC that's better than on the PS2. Simple. Considering the GC was released 2 years later, it's not a *revolutionary* machine. It's not a big step forward. The games look pretty ordinary - because of the standard set down by PS2.
That's what is needed if the PS2 sales are going to slow down - something distinctly better - which the GC, sadly, is not. That's why I see it failing.
Yeah, they might get a good library of games - but it will never catch the PS2. Especially when Nintendo release dates are as reliable as a Skoda.

> Finally, if the GC is so damn easy to make games for - Where are
> they?
> Why is it taking so long for them to be released? Why are the games
> and console not as popular as the PS2? Why are the games so
> expensive?
>
> So the fact the console has been ut 2 months is too long? It took the
> PS2 2 years to get real quality titles whilst Nintendo plan to
> release their best efforts yet by Christmas this year. PS2 is popular
> due to advertisement and blood also it is the best system arounnd :D
> nevertheless the world is stunned by Gamecube advertisement and game
> quality even i like it. And NEW games on the cube cost £33 -
> £35 and PS2 ones are £45.... so the games are expensive
> are they?

No Zelda game, no Mario game - and it's been out for over a year in Japan, where there is still a lack of games (reflected in console sales slowing rapidly).
I think Nintendo games are the greatest along with Sega games. But what on earth would possess anyone to buy a GC over a PS2 with the current limited library? I'll think about trading in my PS2 for a GC when it has better games.

Tellah wrote:
> Dringo,
> Despite you constantly changing between "PS2 cannot run the new
> RE", and "It's hard to run the new RE on PS2" (which is
> it???) - You can keep the RE series for all I care! To be honest, I've
> been playing RE's for about 5-6 years now, and it's got repetitive.
> I've been there, completed that, traded it in. If you're prepared to
> buy a re-hashed game for £45, when the original is available for
> £5, hmmmmmmm.


I am a Sony fan but that is utter rubbish, the RE series has yet to reach its peak and so therefore further sequels needs to be produced in order to improve, RE1 is not a simple rehash and for a fan attacking Nintendo i would hope you did your research. Lets face it we're gutted at the loss of such a game, but then again other do get to enjoy it at last.

> But you can play Soul CAlibur 2, Bloody Roar and Smash brothers
> effectivly... i see a flaw in that argument.
>
> You seem to be missing the point. I didn't say you can't play ANY game
> effectively. I said you can't play CERTAIN games effectively because
> of the button layout.
> I like to have choice in the buttons I press. Games that offer a large
> choice of buttons the gamer can use won't work on GC. You CANNOT play
> games like Tekken, Streetfighter, Mortal Kombat on the GC pad.
> Why?? Because each button used in these games has equal weighting,
> none is more important than the other. Nintendo have shot themselves
> in the foot with the design.
> If you see a 'flaw in my arguement', why keep it to yourself? would
> you care to share it with me?

Prat, again you're making massive mistakes, Dringo pointed out that similar beat 'em ups already released on the system work fine, why shouldn't they? Soul Calibur basically is Tekken anyway.


> If the PS2 is difficult to make games and music on, then why is there
> so much quality available - and at reasonable prices? If it was hard,
> then the games produced wouldn't be quality and they wouldn't sell,
> also they would be more expensive.
> Don't come back with the arguement - they have to make the games
> because they have no choice etc. - Oh the poor, poor developers that
> have to work with PS2! Their lives must be hell! They have no choice
> but to develop for PS2! They are forced into work and whipped until
> release day! They work 2x as hard as their GC developing friends! LOL.
> Rubbish!

Err huh? The PS2 is a difficult system to understand and use to full power similar to the N64 before it. Quality games on the PS2 could be far better than they were. First set of games on the PS2 were awful compare Tekken Tag to Tekken 4 and you'll see but Gamecube have got a decent start already and as a Sony fan i must admit the line up Nintendo have this year already set to at least match the massive line up Sony have under their belt after 2 years, i am starting to understand why Nintendo thing they can sell so much.

> Finally, if the GC is so damn easy to make games for - Where are they?
> Why is it taking so long for them to be released? Why are the games
> and console not as popular as the PS2? Why are the games so expensive?

So the fact the console has been ut 2 months is too long? It took the PS2 2 years to get real quality titles whilst Nintendo plan to release their best efforts yet by Christmas this year. PS2 is popular due to advertisement and blood also it is the best system arounnd :D nevertheless the world is stunned by Gamecube advertisement and game quality even i like it. And NEW games on the cube cost £33 - £35 and PS2 ones are £45.... so the games are expensive are they?

Tellah wrote:

> You seem to be missing the point. I didn't say you can't play ANY game
> effectively. I said you can't play CERTAIN games effectively because
> of the button layout.
> I like to have choice in the buttons I press. Games that offer a large
> choice of buttons the gamer can use won't work on GC. You CANNOT play
> games like Tekken, Streetfighter, Mortal Kombat on the GC pad.
> Why?? Because each button used in these games has equal weighting,
> none is more important than the other. Nintendo have shot themselves
> in the foot with the design.
> If you see a 'flaw in my arguement', why keep it to yourself? would
> you care to share it with me?

Smash Brothers and Soul Calibre do have buttons of equal rating.
You're right, it is a bit of a nuisance at first but you'll adapt within a day and you'll never have to worry again.

Casuals and gaming newbies don't have the time or patience to master the controls of a game so this controller suits the needs of the needy.


> If the PS2 is difficult to make games and music on, then why is there
> so much quality available - and at reasonable prices? If it was hard,
> then the games produced wouldn't be quality and they wouldn't sell,
> also they would be more expensive.

Although the PS2 is the ugliest console to work with when it comes to devellopment, if you want big sales then you have to aim at the big market. The PS2 has the most owners and is therefore the top priority of games sellers. That's why the PS2 is getting the first versions of every game at the moment and having the most work put into it.

Should the PS2 lose it's huge lead in sales, it's priority in devellopment will drop and games will start being concentrated on the other consoles - only that won't be happening.

Dringo,
Despite you constantly changing between "PS2 cannot run the new RE", and "It's hard to run the new RE on PS2" (which is it???) - You can keep the RE series for all I care! To be honest, I've been playing RE's for about 5-6 years now, and it's got repetitive. I've been there, completed that, traded it in. If you're prepared to buy a re-hashed game for £45, when the original is available for £5, hmmmmmmm.

> But you can play Soul CAlibur 2, Bloody Roar and Smash brothers
> effectivly... i see a flaw in that argument.

You seem to be missing the point. I didn't say you can't play ANY game effectively. I said you can't play CERTAIN games effectively because of the button layout.
I like to have choice in the buttons I press. Games that offer a large choice of buttons the gamer can use won't work on GC. You CANNOT play games like Tekken, Streetfighter, Mortal Kombat on the GC pad.
Why?? Because each button used in these games has equal weighting, none is more important than the other. Nintendo have shot themselves in the foot with the design.
If you see a 'flaw in my arguement', why keep it to yourself? would you care to share it with me?

If the PS2 is difficult to make games and music on, then why is there so much quality available - and at reasonable prices? If it was hard, then the games produced wouldn't be quality and they wouldn't sell, also they would be more expensive.
Don't come back with the arguement - they have to make the games because they have no choice etc. - Oh the poor, poor developers that have to work with PS2! Their lives must be hell! They have no choice but to develop for PS2! They are forced into work and whipped until release day! They work 2x as hard as their GC developing friends! LOL. Rubbish!

Finally, if the GC is so damn easy to make games for - Where are they? Why is it taking so long for them to be released? Why are the games and console not as popular as the PS2? Why are the games so expensive?

Anyway, when IS Resident Evil due out? I'm getting itchy for it...

Strafex wrote:
> I think that the PS2 has had most of its improvements by now

Still much more to come. You'll just have to trust me on that one. Or buy the current OPS2M and read it for yourself...

Heh Strafex is perfectly right.

WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:

>
> To be honest, because of the nature of the hardware, I don't think
> that Gamecube has that much improving to do. Ps2 on the other hand
> has much more to offer.

There won't be the same step up from "first PS2 titles - new PS2 titles", but that's more because the first PS2 titles were so awful (the devellopers didn't find it easy to get into)...

Even though it's a dream to work with the Cube, like with any consoles, devellopers won't be getting the VERY best out of it first time.
Infact, Factor 5 (Rogue Leader devellopers) said they'd only quickly scratched the surface and if they made full use of the GC's "multi texture thingamy's" then it could look tonnes better.

People are instantly gettting from the Cube what took them 2 years on the PS2.
I think that the PS2 has had most of its improvements by now and has similar space for expansion as the other consoles.
Only by the time they get the best out of the PS2, the PS3 will be in town.
The other consoles will be getting their best in a much shorter time.

RE4 was cancelled on the PS2 after it had already been announced for multi format in favour of just the Gamecube.

True Wookie, the PS2 has lots to offer, but the GameCube has already showed how much potential it has.

Sony's PS2 has yet to shock the world with anything special.