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i do i think its sick there should be some kind license you should have to set up such a site
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200,000 geeze that is scary.
cjh wrote:
> This thing on BBC 2??? Did it actually show criminals faces and what
> sort of punisments these kind of people get?
Yes. It was a bit near the knuckle really. They showed some really awful video footage of actual abuse, but censored a bit so that you didnt see any genitalia, but you knew what was going on.
The police they interviewed said that the actual punishments these people get are tiny, not only that, but once they are out of prison, they don't get any treatment unless that are really, really, messed up.
There is a clinic that specialises in treatment of Paedophiles, but it only takes 25 people a year, police estimate that there are 200,000 Paedophiles in the UK.
> This thing on BBC 2??? Did it actually show criminals faces and what
> sort of punisments these kind of people get?
Yes. It was a bit near the knuckle really. They showed some really awful video footage of actual abuse, but censored a bit so that you didnt see any genitalia, but you knew what was going on.
The police they interviewed said that the actual punishments these people get are tiny, not only that, but once they are out of prison, they don't get any treatment unless that are really, really, messed up.
There is a clinic that specialises in treatment of Paedophiles, but it only takes 25 people a year, police estimate that there are 200,000 Paedophiles in the UK.
cjh wrote:
> funkygamer, very good post. I agree completly.
Thanks for that :)
> I am actually shocked that the likes of BT, NTL, AT&T, and all the
> telecoms companies haven't pulled together on this, as as far as I
> know, the majority of the internet is done over Phone Lines .... is
> that right???
Hmmm, good point, why can't they set up something, in conjunction with the Police, that could monitor this kind of thing, and maybe dissalow traffic to and from suspicious sites. Apparently, the government of China does something like this, but for any site that they don't agree with, rather than just the dodgy ones.
> But even these have master keys own by someone, the ISP, the connection
> company or the Phone company.
I imagine ISP's generally don't look at the sites that their customers build, but every site MUST have an ISP, and most ISPs have Resonable Use Policies. What is done to enforce them?
> Now the realy peoblem is what we really class as being 'to far'. I
> have to say that Adult porn, I think shouldn't be removed, as there is
> a hug market from this, people who access it know that they are
> looking at and the models all know what they are doing (well, I say
> know, but I susspect there are still these sicko's who force it on
> some).
I think that anything you can buy legally in a shop, you should be able to buy on the Internet. Simple as that. There are issues about what is legal in what country, but even then, there is common ground, like, no child porn.
> What about Terrorist sites/bomb making sites??? We have these as well
> that I don't think should be about, and I think most people agree on
> this one.
Never thought of that, but yeah, why should these sites ruin it for the rest of the Internet?
> What does everyone think about adult porn sites though?? Am I the only
> one who thinks these arn't as bad a they are mad out???
As I've said, if you can buy it on the High Street, why not over the Internet?
> The thing I do disagree with is the tactics such sites do to get
> customers. How many E-mails have you got with full blown sex pictures
> in your inbox??? I get them almost daily, and this is just wrong.
Good point, I get Hotmail spam all the time, also, a new tactic I have noticed, is sending "webcam" links to my Yahoo! Messenger whilst I'm online! WTF?
> We should keep the freedom of the Internet alive, but we should realy
> get hold of these people who really do exploite our trust. Usernames and
> passwording more sites would help keep the younger views and sick
> material away from our eyes, but at the same time removes more of
> the 'freedom' from the WWW.
Easier said (or typed) than done though.
> As always, there is always someone around the corner
> to spoil something.
Hit the nail on the head there. I don't think the media helps either, as if the Internet is just used for porn and criminal activities. Come on. Give me a break.
> funkygamer, very good post. I agree completly.
Thanks for that :)
> I am actually shocked that the likes of BT, NTL, AT&T, and all the
> telecoms companies haven't pulled together on this, as as far as I
> know, the majority of the internet is done over Phone Lines .... is
> that right???
Hmmm, good point, why can't they set up something, in conjunction with the Police, that could monitor this kind of thing, and maybe dissalow traffic to and from suspicious sites. Apparently, the government of China does something like this, but for any site that they don't agree with, rather than just the dodgy ones.
> But even these have master keys own by someone, the ISP, the connection
> company or the Phone company.
I imagine ISP's generally don't look at the sites that their customers build, but every site MUST have an ISP, and most ISPs have Resonable Use Policies. What is done to enforce them?
> Now the realy peoblem is what we really class as being 'to far'. I
> have to say that Adult porn, I think shouldn't be removed, as there is
> a hug market from this, people who access it know that they are
> looking at and the models all know what they are doing (well, I say
> know, but I susspect there are still these sicko's who force it on
> some).
I think that anything you can buy legally in a shop, you should be able to buy on the Internet. Simple as that. There are issues about what is legal in what country, but even then, there is common ground, like, no child porn.
> What about Terrorist sites/bomb making sites??? We have these as well
> that I don't think should be about, and I think most people agree on
> this one.
Never thought of that, but yeah, why should these sites ruin it for the rest of the Internet?
> What does everyone think about adult porn sites though?? Am I the only
> one who thinks these arn't as bad a they are mad out???
As I've said, if you can buy it on the High Street, why not over the Internet?
> The thing I do disagree with is the tactics such sites do to get
> customers. How many E-mails have you got with full blown sex pictures
> in your inbox??? I get them almost daily, and this is just wrong.
Good point, I get Hotmail spam all the time, also, a new tactic I have noticed, is sending "webcam" links to my Yahoo! Messenger whilst I'm online! WTF?
> We should keep the freedom of the Internet alive, but we should realy
> get hold of these people who really do exploite our trust. Usernames and
> passwording more sites would help keep the younger views and sick
> material away from our eyes, but at the same time removes more of
> the 'freedom' from the WWW.
Easier said (or typed) than done though.
> As always, there is always someone around the corner
> to spoil something.
Hit the nail on the head there. I don't think the media helps either, as if the Internet is just used for porn and criminal activities. Come on. Give me a break.
This thing on BBC 2??? Did it actually show criminals faces and what sort of punisments these kind of people get?
RastaBillySkank wrote:
> Yeah I saw that. It was really sickening. The worst bit was when they
> played the recording of that bloke and the little girl... I felt
> physically sick watching that...
I know. I have never really agreed with the death penalty. But I would seriously not mind it in a case like that. Some twisted pervert has recorded himself doing it. There is no way he can be proved not guilty, so instead of wasting tax-payers money locking him up, a lethal injection would not be out of the question.
Maybe I've gone too far with that, but hey, these kids are our future, if they are abused now, who knows, they may repeat the cycle of abuse when they get older, or be mentally scarred for life.
> Yeah I saw that. It was really sickening. The worst bit was when they
> played the recording of that bloke and the little girl... I felt
> physically sick watching that...
I know. I have never really agreed with the death penalty. But I would seriously not mind it in a case like that. Some twisted pervert has recorded himself doing it. There is no way he can be proved not guilty, so instead of wasting tax-payers money locking him up, a lethal injection would not be out of the question.
Maybe I've gone too far with that, but hey, these kids are our future, if they are abused now, who knows, they may repeat the cycle of abuse when they get older, or be mentally scarred for life.
funkygamer, very good post. I agree completly.
The Internet is about Freedom of speech. But of course, there are people out there who have exploted such a thing, and have taking it way to far.
I am actually shocked that the likes of BT, NTL, AT&T, and all the telecoms companies haven't pulled together on this, as as far as I know, the majority of the internet is done over Phone Lines .... is that right???
Surely, they have the power to block sites being transfered over their network, or even whole ISP's/Web Site Hosts from accessing their structure??? I know how you mean about these 'underground' sites hidding beind doors. But even these have master keys own by someone, the ISP, the connection company or the Phone company.
Now the realy peoblem is what we really class as being 'to far'. I have to say that Adult porn, I think shouldn't be removed, as there is a hug market from this, people who access it know that they are looking at and the models all know what they are doing (well, I say know, but I susspect there are still these sicko's who force it on some). Child porn on the other hand, taking the inocences of these children is just plain 'F&^$ed up'. These kids are forced to do acts that they not only don't want to do, but mostly don't know what they are. I have never been to (nor want to) access a child porn site, and didn't see that think on BBC 2, so I don't know what type of things these kids are made to do, but I'm sure its not moral and just sick.
What about Terrorist sites/bomb making sites??? We have these as well that I don't think should be about, and I think most people agree on this one.
What does everyone think about adult porn sites though?? Am I the only one who thinks these arn't as bad a they are mad out???
The thing I do disagree with is the tactics such sites do to get customers. How many E-mails have you got with full blown sex pictures in your inbox??? I get them almost daily, and this is just wrong. Who knows how old someone is who get sent these type of E-mails. What about Search Engines, should they start password protecting these too??? Like Yahoo, you login for their Mail, their Groups, why not their 'more mature' search facility??? The BBC one is a good one as its designed not to display adult material, but it does link to sites like Yahoo who do, so yet another problem. But what do you get when you type innocent words??? Porn. Its because of these Search Engins using 'META' Tags that again, have allowed people to exploite the power of the search engine.
Oh, I've gone on to much, but I hope you see what I mean. Really, is all down to who makes the rules, and what they feel should and shouldn't be viewable, and who by. We should keep the freedom of the Internet alive, but we should realy get hold of these people who really do exploite our trust. Usernames and passwording more sites would help keep the younger views and sick material away from our eyes, but at the same time removes more of the 'freedom' from the WWW.
As always, there is always someone around the corner to spoil something.
The Internet is about Freedom of speech. But of course, there are people out there who have exploted such a thing, and have taking it way to far.
I am actually shocked that the likes of BT, NTL, AT&T, and all the telecoms companies haven't pulled together on this, as as far as I know, the majority of the internet is done over Phone Lines .... is that right???
Surely, they have the power to block sites being transfered over their network, or even whole ISP's/Web Site Hosts from accessing their structure??? I know how you mean about these 'underground' sites hidding beind doors. But even these have master keys own by someone, the ISP, the connection company or the Phone company.
Now the realy peoblem is what we really class as being 'to far'. I have to say that Adult porn, I think shouldn't be removed, as there is a hug market from this, people who access it know that they are looking at and the models all know what they are doing (well, I say know, but I susspect there are still these sicko's who force it on some). Child porn on the other hand, taking the inocences of these children is just plain 'F&^$ed up'. These kids are forced to do acts that they not only don't want to do, but mostly don't know what they are. I have never been to (nor want to) access a child porn site, and didn't see that think on BBC 2, so I don't know what type of things these kids are made to do, but I'm sure its not moral and just sick.
What about Terrorist sites/bomb making sites??? We have these as well that I don't think should be about, and I think most people agree on this one.
What does everyone think about adult porn sites though?? Am I the only one who thinks these arn't as bad a they are mad out???
The thing I do disagree with is the tactics such sites do to get customers. How many E-mails have you got with full blown sex pictures in your inbox??? I get them almost daily, and this is just wrong. Who knows how old someone is who get sent these type of E-mails. What about Search Engines, should they start password protecting these too??? Like Yahoo, you login for their Mail, their Groups, why not their 'more mature' search facility??? The BBC one is a good one as its designed not to display adult material, but it does link to sites like Yahoo who do, so yet another problem. But what do you get when you type innocent words??? Porn. Its because of these Search Engins using 'META' Tags that again, have allowed people to exploite the power of the search engine.
Oh, I've gone on to much, but I hope you see what I mean. Really, is all down to who makes the rules, and what they feel should and shouldn't be viewable, and who by. We should keep the freedom of the Internet alive, but we should realy get hold of these people who really do exploite our trust. Usernames and passwording more sites would help keep the younger views and sick material away from our eyes, but at the same time removes more of the 'freedom' from the WWW.
As always, there is always someone around the corner to spoil something.
funkygamer wrote:
> *blush* Thanks for that, but I dont think any post from this forum
> ever won a GAD.
YEah they can, Monkey_man won for a post in this forum.
Something I feel passionatley about though after
> watching that programme on BBC2 the other day.
Yeah I saw that. It was really sickening. The worst bit was when they played the recording of that bloke and the little girl... I felt physically sick watching that...
> *blush* Thanks for that, but I dont think any post from this forum
> ever won a GAD.
YEah they can, Monkey_man won for a post in this forum.
Something I feel passionatley about though after
> watching that programme on BBC2 the other day.
Yeah I saw that. It was really sickening. The worst bit was when they played the recording of that bloke and the little girl... I felt physically sick watching that...
The wonderful thing about the Internet is that anyone can set up a web site, not just the big multi-national conglomerates who already control so much of the media. How many people on this forum have built a web site for little or nothing? Now how many of you could start a magazine, or TV station, or radio broadcast? The Internet is the last hope for the "little guy" being able to have his (or her) say on any issue. That is what freedom of speech is about. I might not agree with what anybody else has to say, but I'll be damned if I want to create a society where people are not allowed to say what they want without fear of recrimination.
Now, as for porn sites. Firstly, they are amongst the only commercial ventures on the Internet that actually (gasp!) make money. So it is big business, and big business will fight if you start putting red tape in the way of it, so the whole economy loses out as time and money is wasted.
Do you think child porn sites will actually try to register for a licence? I don't think so. What would they put on the licence application form? "I plan to distribute images of illegal and underage sex". Dont be stupid. They will simply hide behind the front of an innocent website, about gardening or something, whilst the underground pervs who now how to access it (these sites obviously advertise in chatrooms, word of mouth, etc, they are not going to take out high profile ads in tabloid newspapers are they?) will simply get into the secret porno areas through usernames and passwords.
As the Internet is a global medium, with individual agencies in each country set up to control Internet domains and the different laws of each country, etc, who do you propose to police this system that you have thought of, what agency will enforce this licence scheme? Will it be a United Internet Agency? Or will each country look after itself? Either way, what will this police force do? Make sure the people who have licenses are doing what they say they are? I've already discussed that the kiddie porn sites will just go even further underground, those sites that have nothing to had will just get a licence and carry on as usual.
You quite obviously haven't thought this through. The Internet mostly polices itself. But as for kiddie porn, I think it is a global problem which needs a global solution. There should be an agency set up, comprising of top-notch system crackers, who can
1) monitor chat rooms & newsgroups that are known for promoting kiddie porn, use them to gain information on who does what, and generate leads as to who is hosting this stuff, or commiting offences against children
2) penetrate web sites, capture the details of all the sickos who use them, and pass those details on to the relavent police authorities in whatever country these people are in.
3) Then, the web site/newsgroup/chatroom should be shut down by any means neccesary, the people who own the site/chatroom should be thrown in jail for life (and I mean life, not just 10 years)
4)shut down the ISP that is hosting these sites, or at least give a very heavy fine, or the directors disqualified from running the company.
There. I think my solution is much better than a licenseing scenario. I have often played with the idea of setting up some kind of group to at least disrupt these sicko sites using Denial Of Service attacks, but I wouldn't know where to begin, nor do I want to fall fould of the law. I think all those hack/crack/phreak groups out there would do the world a favour if they turned their enrgies on the sick f*****s out there who distribute this filth.
Rant over. I may post this in other forums actually...
Now, as for porn sites. Firstly, they are amongst the only commercial ventures on the Internet that actually (gasp!) make money. So it is big business, and big business will fight if you start putting red tape in the way of it, so the whole economy loses out as time and money is wasted.
Do you think child porn sites will actually try to register for a licence? I don't think so. What would they put on the licence application form? "I plan to distribute images of illegal and underage sex". Dont be stupid. They will simply hide behind the front of an innocent website, about gardening or something, whilst the underground pervs who now how to access it (these sites obviously advertise in chatrooms, word of mouth, etc, they are not going to take out high profile ads in tabloid newspapers are they?) will simply get into the secret porno areas through usernames and passwords.
As the Internet is a global medium, with individual agencies in each country set up to control Internet domains and the different laws of each country, etc, who do you propose to police this system that you have thought of, what agency will enforce this licence scheme? Will it be a United Internet Agency? Or will each country look after itself? Either way, what will this police force do? Make sure the people who have licenses are doing what they say they are? I've already discussed that the kiddie porn sites will just go even further underground, those sites that have nothing to had will just get a licence and carry on as usual.
You quite obviously haven't thought this through. The Internet mostly polices itself. But as for kiddie porn, I think it is a global problem which needs a global solution. There should be an agency set up, comprising of top-notch system crackers, who can
1) monitor chat rooms & newsgroups that are known for promoting kiddie porn, use them to gain information on who does what, and generate leads as to who is hosting this stuff, or commiting offences against children
2) penetrate web sites, capture the details of all the sickos who use them, and pass those details on to the relavent police authorities in whatever country these people are in.
3) Then, the web site/newsgroup/chatroom should be shut down by any means neccesary, the people who own the site/chatroom should be thrown in jail for life (and I mean life, not just 10 years)
4)shut down the ISP that is hosting these sites, or at least give a very heavy fine, or the directors disqualified from running the company.
There. I think my solution is much better than a licenseing scenario. I have often played with the idea of setting up some kind of group to at least disrupt these sicko sites using Denial Of Service attacks, but I wouldn't know where to begin, nor do I want to fall fould of the law. I think all those hack/crack/phreak groups out there would do the world a favour if they turned their enrgies on the sick f*****s out there who distribute this filth.
Rant over. I may post this in other forums actually...
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