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Finding out about a game that has been released in a couple of European Countries has brought me out from my enforced hiatus to post my feelings about this:
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
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Hate to leave the debate but I gotta go home now, see y'all later
Meka Dragon wrote:
> Brew wrote:
> Newbies who don't know goatboy at all (deja vous) would
> automatically side with
> him due to ststus alone
Well, to be honest if
> they're incapable of reading the thread and making a judgement on it of their
> own, I wouldn't much want them on my side just going "Yeah, what he
> said" "Baah, Baah!"
Exactly, but that would be their natural reaction anyway.
> Brew wrote:
> Newbies who don't know goatboy at all (deja vous) would
> automatically side with
> him due to ststus alone
Well, to be honest if
> they're incapable of reading the thread and making a judgement on it of their
> own, I wouldn't much want them on my side just going "Yeah, what he
> said" "Baah, Baah!"
Exactly, but that would be their natural reaction anyway.
Brew wrote:
> Newbies who don't know goatboy at all (deja vous) would automatically side with
> him due to ststus alone
Well, to be honest if they're incapable of reading the thread and making a judgement on it of their own, I wouldn't much want them on my side just going "Yeah, what he said" "Baah, Baah!"
> Newbies who don't know goatboy at all (deja vous) would automatically side with
> him due to ststus alone
Well, to be honest if they're incapable of reading the thread and making a judgement on it of their own, I wouldn't much want them on my side just going "Yeah, what he said" "Baah, Baah!"
Jimmy Duck wrote:
> I've backed up my statement by saying that i wopuld play this games not wanting
> to be a nazi but to enjoy it as a game player.
But surely the game is replicating what it is like to be the typical hooligan/nazi thug ? I thought that seemed pretty clear in the first post Goatboy made. The gameplay of game revolves around the character (s) the player controls because who/what they are dictates the content. I mean, Kasumi form DOA2 would look awfully out of place as you're character in GTA3 wouldn't it ? How about Jak replacing Dante in Devil May Cry ? Weird, but stupid. By buying any game you are making a statement saying that you enjoy the kind of action that is CENTRAL to the game itself- and before anyone says it, GTA3 does not hav any mission requiring you to kill innocent people, its really just gang warfare mostly. In MGS2 the player is trying to stop Metal Gear being used, because that would mean thousands of deaths, so its acceptable to kill anyting or one that stands in your way because you have a (possibly subjective) moral reason.
Now, to the point, this hooligan game has as its CENTRAL gameplay killing innocent people, racial hatred and nazism.
Oh, you may think that people assume nothing from what you buy, but they do, as others have said your books, films and games say a lot about you !
> I've backed up my statement by saying that i wopuld play this games not wanting
> to be a nazi but to enjoy it as a game player.
But surely the game is replicating what it is like to be the typical hooligan/nazi thug ? I thought that seemed pretty clear in the first post Goatboy made. The gameplay of game revolves around the character (s) the player controls because who/what they are dictates the content. I mean, Kasumi form DOA2 would look awfully out of place as you're character in GTA3 wouldn't it ? How about Jak replacing Dante in Devil May Cry ? Weird, but stupid. By buying any game you are making a statement saying that you enjoy the kind of action that is CENTRAL to the game itself- and before anyone says it, GTA3 does not hav any mission requiring you to kill innocent people, its really just gang warfare mostly. In MGS2 the player is trying to stop Metal Gear being used, because that would mean thousands of deaths, so its acceptable to kill anyting or one that stands in your way because you have a (possibly subjective) moral reason.
Now, to the point, this hooligan game has as its CENTRAL gameplay killing innocent people, racial hatred and nazism.
Oh, you may think that people assume nothing from what you buy, but they do, as others have said your books, films and games say a lot about you !
Newbies who don't know goatboy at all (deja vous) would automatically side with him due to ststus alone
Jimmy Duck wrote:
>You can't outlaw beliefs.
Beliefs I dont have a problem with (although I obviously may not agree).
Its the way people act on them I am opposed to.
>You can't outlaw beliefs.
Beliefs I dont have a problem with (although I obviously may not agree).
Its the way people act on them I am opposed to.
Very wordy, Meka. Well done.
Meka Dragon wrote:
> Brew wrote:
Ah'm merely
> saying that Goatboy would probably garner more
> support due to his status, in a
> verbal fight he would probably win.
No
> you still don't get it, it's not the status that maketh the man, but the man
> that riseth to the status.
Maybe for the individual yes, but it's othjer peoples perception of a notable's status that would gain support, not the title itself.
> Brew wrote:
Ah'm merely
> saying that Goatboy would probably garner more
> support due to his status, in a
> verbal fight he would probably win.
No
> you still don't get it, it's not the status that maketh the man, but the man
> that riseth to the status.
Maybe for the individual yes, but it's othjer peoples perception of a notable's status that would gain support, not the title itself.
Meka Dragon wrote:
> you still don't get it, it's not the status that maketh the man, but the man
> that riseth to the status.
Having said that, due to the number of little sheep on these forums, he is probably right. Unfortunately
> you still don't get it, it's not the status that maketh the man, but the man
> that riseth to the status.
Having said that, due to the number of little sheep on these forums, he is probably right. Unfortunately
Belldandy wrote:
You
> just choose not to mention any of those acts...its very biased and suggests that
> you consider it okay to attack America for its history but not our own nation.
> You had heard of our little 16th century exploits with slaving e.t.c I assume ?
> And our hilarious "ban" towards the end...
Its not biased, its just a simple, relevant and current example that people can identify with. It has absolutely nothing to do with me defending our nation. Does it mean I was standing up for every other nation in the world because I only mentioned America? Nope.
My point was that, as nations we are ALL guilty, we ALL have blood on our hands and we are ALL hypocrites.
Still this is getting
> off topic, apologies.
Don't aplogise, people don't talk about things enough.
You
> just choose not to mention any of those acts...its very biased and suggests that
> you consider it okay to attack America for its history but not our own nation.
> You had heard of our little 16th century exploits with slaving e.t.c I assume ?
> And our hilarious "ban" towards the end...
Its not biased, its just a simple, relevant and current example that people can identify with. It has absolutely nothing to do with me defending our nation. Does it mean I was standing up for every other nation in the world because I only mentioned America? Nope.
My point was that, as nations we are ALL guilty, we ALL have blood on our hands and we are ALL hypocrites.
Still this is getting
> off topic, apologies.
Don't aplogise, people don't talk about things enough.
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