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I recently met up with Timmargh. Went to his house, had a lovely chat, watched Red Dwarf with him and made us some coffee.
Beforehand I was worried about how I may treat or think of him differently in real life because of his disability. Online it's easy, I can throw a crip joke his way and we can both laugh about it. It's kinda faceless, easier to not feel so.. intimidated I guess, by how you should behave.
So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'. Thankfully it was fine, no problem at all. Tim was nervous too, but in the end it seemed we had nothing to worry about.
But it got me thinking a little about disability. I'm disabled too, but in a different way. I hate to say that, because well, I feel like a fraud.
My disability cannot be seen from the outside. Sometimes it can be found in my actions and behaviour. I suffer only in episodes. Actually, that's not entirely true.
Basically, I have some symptoms all the time, and other symptoms when I escalate. A lack of desire, motivation, that's pretty constant. Things like voices are very common, mild hallucinations are quite common, and things like big scary hallucinations and delusions (having twisted and weird beliefs) are less common.
I also find it very hard to concentrate. This makes studying almost impossible.
But when I compare myself to someone who is disabled, physically, in a way that does not change, I feel like.. not that I shouldn't be labelled disabled, but that I'm put in the same category as people who I honestly believe have worse disabilities than me.
It also comes down to the 'what you can see'. With a physically disabled person, you can see it straight away. You can see the wheelchair, any physical attributes, you can see someone who is physically disabled or 'Can't Really Itch Places' or CRIP for short.
With me, like I said, you can't really see it. The only outside appearance that may give it away results from my lack of motivation. Times where I don't want to change my clothes, shower, tidy things. I look a mess at times, and I imagine that's not seen as a 'disability' but more as laziness.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is, do you think you treat disabled people differently? Is there a difference in your mind between the physically disabled, and the mentally ill, which you cannot easily see on the outside?
I would like to point out here that there's a spectrum to pretty much everything. It's hardly ever, if never, black and white. People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way? I believe it is in a way, but personally, I just think I make more fuss of it than what's really necessary and like I said, I feel like a fraud.
Would you think you would treat them as human beings, or are you prejudiced in anyway? Don't be embarrassed if you are, it's probably quite natural.
Beforehand I was worried about how I may treat or think of him differently in real life because of his disability. Online it's easy, I can throw a crip joke his way and we can both laugh about it. It's kinda faceless, easier to not feel so.. intimidated I guess, by how you should behave.
So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'. Thankfully it was fine, no problem at all. Tim was nervous too, but in the end it seemed we had nothing to worry about.
But it got me thinking a little about disability. I'm disabled too, but in a different way. I hate to say that, because well, I feel like a fraud.
My disability cannot be seen from the outside. Sometimes it can be found in my actions and behaviour. I suffer only in episodes. Actually, that's not entirely true.
Basically, I have some symptoms all the time, and other symptoms when I escalate. A lack of desire, motivation, that's pretty constant. Things like voices are very common, mild hallucinations are quite common, and things like big scary hallucinations and delusions (having twisted and weird beliefs) are less common.
I also find it very hard to concentrate. This makes studying almost impossible.
But when I compare myself to someone who is disabled, physically, in a way that does not change, I feel like.. not that I shouldn't be labelled disabled, but that I'm put in the same category as people who I honestly believe have worse disabilities than me.
It also comes down to the 'what you can see'. With a physically disabled person, you can see it straight away. You can see the wheelchair, any physical attributes, you can see someone who is physically disabled or 'Can't Really Itch Places' or CRIP for short.
With me, like I said, you can't really see it. The only outside appearance that may give it away results from my lack of motivation. Times where I don't want to change my clothes, shower, tidy things. I look a mess at times, and I imagine that's not seen as a 'disability' but more as laziness.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is, do you think you treat disabled people differently? Is there a difference in your mind between the physically disabled, and the mentally ill, which you cannot easily see on the outside?
I would like to point out here that there's a spectrum to pretty much everything. It's hardly ever, if never, black and white. People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way? I believe it is in a way, but personally, I just think I make more fuss of it than what's really necessary and like I said, I feel like a fraud.
Would you think you would treat them as human beings, or are you prejudiced in anyway? Don't be embarrassed if you are, it's probably quite natural.
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I personally think that it's easier, not harder, to get past the fact that someone has a physical, rather than a mental, illness.
If you can see it you can at least partially identify with it. For people with any type of mental illness it's a very personal issue, how can it not be?
So, yes, I think it's harder to 'sympathise' with mental disabilities, but from a completely opposing view to what has already been discussed, ie: not having a lack of sympathy because the illness isn't a disability in the traditional sense, but just making that connection in the first place.
I've had experience of people with both mental and physical disabilities and can honestly say I found it far more difficult to know how to cope with working out how to treat the person with manic depression than that of another who was wheelchair bound or suffered from MS, but it's no less of a disability.
What I can't understand is people who have no time for either and can't possibly get their head around intergration of any disability with an albe bodied lifestyle.
If you can see it you can at least partially identify with it. For people with any type of mental illness it's a very personal issue, how can it not be?
So, yes, I think it's harder to 'sympathise' with mental disabilities, but from a completely opposing view to what has already been discussed, ie: not having a lack of sympathy because the illness isn't a disability in the traditional sense, but just making that connection in the first place.
I've had experience of people with both mental and physical disabilities and can honestly say I found it far more difficult to know how to cope with working out how to treat the person with manic depression than that of another who was wheelchair bound or suffered from MS, but it's no less of a disability.
What I can't understand is people who have no time for either and can't possibly get their head around intergration of any disability with an albe bodied lifestyle.
Ah, bipolar. It's like coming home to a box of chocolates, except there are only two, and they are both filled with something icky :(
Another thing.
The mind of a schizophrenic is different to a mind of a normal person. The brain is frazzled in what appears to be something like a 'forest fire' across the mind. It is, effectively, brain damage, and brain disease. Do you truly believe you can 'think' yourself into brain disease?
The mind of a schizophrenic is different to a mind of a normal person. The brain is frazzled in what appears to be something like a 'forest fire' across the mind. It is, effectively, brain damage, and brain disease. Do you truly believe you can 'think' yourself into brain disease?
Marzman wrote:
those with mental health issues usually want it.
I.. completely disagree to the point of being a little uncomfortable.
I do most certainly not want to be schizophrenic. Depression isn't about feeling sorry for yourself, it's something much deeper, stronger, disabling. I'm glad I don't often have to face it and when I do, it's not so hard.
What experience have you had with the mentally ill, Marzman? I've had experience in dissociative identity disorder (multiple personalities), borderline personality, bipolar, schizoaffective, schizophrenia, and severe depression. I cannot look at any of them, in the experience I have had with friends and people I know who have had these disorders, including myself, and see a hint of anyone wanting to be ill. Some people don't even realise they're ill. How can they want something they don't even realise they have?
I find your comments insulting, but I don't want to pass judgement if you're basing your findings on personal experience, that you've gained from being with the mentally ill, talking to them. But I find it hard to think that you can come to that conclusion at all, other than from a very basic outsiders view.
And I'm not defending myself personally so much here because I don't have enough self respect for that, but people I love -suffer- because of these things and they do not have control over them. It's not something you choose to be. It's something that's placed on you. Just like you can take away a man's legs, a woman's muscles, you can take away part of someone's mind. It can stop working in the way it's supposed to.
If you have made these judgements on a very poor understanding of it, then I advise you in future to be careful, especially when it comes to something as complicated as mental illness, not to cast judgement so easily.
those with mental health issues usually want it.
I.. completely disagree to the point of being a little uncomfortable.
I do most certainly not want to be schizophrenic. Depression isn't about feeling sorry for yourself, it's something much deeper, stronger, disabling. I'm glad I don't often have to face it and when I do, it's not so hard.
What experience have you had with the mentally ill, Marzman? I've had experience in dissociative identity disorder (multiple personalities), borderline personality, bipolar, schizoaffective, schizophrenia, and severe depression. I cannot look at any of them, in the experience I have had with friends and people I know who have had these disorders, including myself, and see a hint of anyone wanting to be ill. Some people don't even realise they're ill. How can they want something they don't even realise they have?
I find your comments insulting, but I don't want to pass judgement if you're basing your findings on personal experience, that you've gained from being with the mentally ill, talking to them. But I find it hard to think that you can come to that conclusion at all, other than from a very basic outsiders view.
And I'm not defending myself personally so much here because I don't have enough self respect for that, but people I love -suffer- because of these things and they do not have control over them. It's not something you choose to be. It's something that's placed on you. Just like you can take away a man's legs, a woman's muscles, you can take away part of someone's mind. It can stop working in the way it's supposed to.
If you have made these judgements on a very poor understanding of it, then I advise you in future to be careful, especially when it comes to something as complicated as mental illness, not to cast judgement so easily.
Grix Thraves wrote:
> So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'.
You actually had me in tears ^-^
> So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'.
You actually had me in tears ^-^
Grix Thraves wrote:
> People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled
> person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the
> term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the
> mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way?
I’d say no. Physical disabilities are rarely self inflicted, and although mental ailments aren’t always, I still find it hard to find the same sympathy for them. I guess it’s because I believe a depressed person would thrive in a new environment, when a paraplegic is unlikely to ever walk again. Those that I know who are physically impaired need help, when those with mental health issues usually want it.
Silent thunder raised a very good issue about the real difference being between the mentally and physically disabled. I’m sure in his role he has to treat everyone equally, however that must sometimes be infuriating for the able-minded. I mean, people often make jokes about being retarded, but not about being blind. Therefore the same stigma must annoy those whom it is labelled with (as they are more aware of it).
I don’t want to come over to hard on the mentally ill, but I strongly believe we are meant to over come our mental barriers. Also, possibly contradictory, but I wonder how much of a hindrance they really are. The old saying goes something like that there is a fine line between genius and madness, so maybe diagnosing conditions merely prevents gifts from being explored, controlled and developed.
> People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled
> person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the
> term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the
> mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way?
I’d say no. Physical disabilities are rarely self inflicted, and although mental ailments aren’t always, I still find it hard to find the same sympathy for them. I guess it’s because I believe a depressed person would thrive in a new environment, when a paraplegic is unlikely to ever walk again. Those that I know who are physically impaired need help, when those with mental health issues usually want it.
Silent thunder raised a very good issue about the real difference being between the mentally and physically disabled. I’m sure in his role he has to treat everyone equally, however that must sometimes be infuriating for the able-minded. I mean, people often make jokes about being retarded, but not about being blind. Therefore the same stigma must annoy those whom it is labelled with (as they are more aware of it).
I don’t want to come over to hard on the mentally ill, but I strongly believe we are meant to over come our mental barriers. Also, possibly contradictory, but I wonder how much of a hindrance they really are. The old saying goes something like that there is a fine line between genius and madness, so maybe diagnosing conditions merely prevents gifts from being explored, controlled and developed.
I volunteer at a local drama/youth club kinda thing for kids between 7-11 every Tuesday and there's a mixture of kids, some with physical and some with mental disabilities. When I first joined, almost a year exactly now, I didn't know how to 'deal' with them and I didn't think I'd actually be any help whatsoever. It took a while to get to know the kids and I tried to observe what the other people working at the group did. At first, I have to admit, I thought each kid needed their own kind of special treatment, with things they can and things they can't do.
But after a few sessions I finally realised how the others workers were treating all children - exactly the same, they just treated them as everyone else. Now I try and do exactly the same and hopefully am succeeding. I hate the idea of patronising anyone and as I've seen where I work the children who have a disability can get easily frustrated if you treat them any different from anyone else. So yeah, it took a while, but I find it easier now to talk to anyone as I just see and treat everyone the same.
But after a few sessions I finally realised how the others workers were treating all children - exactly the same, they just treated them as everyone else. Now I try and do exactly the same and hopefully am succeeding. I hate the idea of patronising anyone and as I've seen where I work the children who have a disability can get easily frustrated if you treat them any different from anyone else. So yeah, it took a while, but I find it easier now to talk to anyone as I just see and treat everyone the same.
I recently met up with Timmargh. Went to his house, had a lovely chat, watched Red Dwarf with him and made us some coffee.
Beforehand I was worried about how I may treat or think of him differently in real life because of his disability. Online it's easy, I can throw a crip joke his way and we can both laugh about it. It's kinda faceless, easier to not feel so.. intimidated I guess, by how you should behave.
So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'. Thankfully it was fine, no problem at all. Tim was nervous too, but in the end it seemed we had nothing to worry about.
But it got me thinking a little about disability. I'm disabled too, but in a different way. I hate to say that, because well, I feel like a fraud.
My disability cannot be seen from the outside. Sometimes it can be found in my actions and behaviour. I suffer only in episodes. Actually, that's not entirely true.
Basically, I have some symptoms all the time, and other symptoms when I escalate. A lack of desire, motivation, that's pretty constant. Things like voices are very common, mild hallucinations are quite common, and things like big scary hallucinations and delusions (having twisted and weird beliefs) are less common.
I also find it very hard to concentrate. This makes studying almost impossible.
But when I compare myself to someone who is disabled, physically, in a way that does not change, I feel like.. not that I shouldn't be labelled disabled, but that I'm put in the same category as people who I honestly believe have worse disabilities than me.
It also comes down to the 'what you can see'. With a physically disabled person, you can see it straight away. You can see the wheelchair, any physical attributes, you can see someone who is physically disabled or 'Can't Really Itch Places' or CRIP for short.
With me, like I said, you can't really see it. The only outside appearance that may give it away results from my lack of motivation. Times where I don't want to change my clothes, shower, tidy things. I look a mess at times, and I imagine that's not seen as a 'disability' but more as laziness.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is, do you think you treat disabled people differently? Is there a difference in your mind between the physically disabled, and the mentally ill, which you cannot easily see on the outside?
I would like to point out here that there's a spectrum to pretty much everything. It's hardly ever, if never, black and white. People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way? I believe it is in a way, but personally, I just think I make more fuss of it than what's really necessary and like I said, I feel like a fraud.
Would you think you would treat them as human beings, or are you prejudiced in anyway? Don't be embarrassed if you are, it's probably quite natural.
Beforehand I was worried about how I may treat or think of him differently in real life because of his disability. Online it's easy, I can throw a crip joke his way and we can both laugh about it. It's kinda faceless, easier to not feel so.. intimidated I guess, by how you should behave.
So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'. Thankfully it was fine, no problem at all. Tim was nervous too, but in the end it seemed we had nothing to worry about.
But it got me thinking a little about disability. I'm disabled too, but in a different way. I hate to say that, because well, I feel like a fraud.
My disability cannot be seen from the outside. Sometimes it can be found in my actions and behaviour. I suffer only in episodes. Actually, that's not entirely true.
Basically, I have some symptoms all the time, and other symptoms when I escalate. A lack of desire, motivation, that's pretty constant. Things like voices are very common, mild hallucinations are quite common, and things like big scary hallucinations and delusions (having twisted and weird beliefs) are less common.
I also find it very hard to concentrate. This makes studying almost impossible.
But when I compare myself to someone who is disabled, physically, in a way that does not change, I feel like.. not that I shouldn't be labelled disabled, but that I'm put in the same category as people who I honestly believe have worse disabilities than me.
It also comes down to the 'what you can see'. With a physically disabled person, you can see it straight away. You can see the wheelchair, any physical attributes, you can see someone who is physically disabled or 'Can't Really Itch Places' or CRIP for short.
With me, like I said, you can't really see it. The only outside appearance that may give it away results from my lack of motivation. Times where I don't want to change my clothes, shower, tidy things. I look a mess at times, and I imagine that's not seen as a 'disability' but more as laziness.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is, do you think you treat disabled people differently? Is there a difference in your mind between the physically disabled, and the mentally ill, which you cannot easily see on the outside?
I would like to point out here that there's a spectrum to pretty much everything. It's hardly ever, if never, black and white. People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way? I believe it is in a way, but personally, I just think I make more fuss of it than what's really necessary and like I said, I feel like a fraud.
Would you think you would treat them as human beings, or are you prejudiced in anyway? Don't be embarrassed if you are, it's probably quite natural.
Page: