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I recently met up with Timmargh. Went to his house, had a lovely chat, watched Red Dwarf with him and made us some coffee.
Beforehand I was worried about how I may treat or think of him differently in real life because of his disability. Online it's easy, I can throw a crip joke his way and we can both laugh about it. It's kinda faceless, easier to not feel so.. intimidated I guess, by how you should behave.
So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'. Thankfully it was fine, no problem at all. Tim was nervous too, but in the end it seemed we had nothing to worry about.
But it got me thinking a little about disability. I'm disabled too, but in a different way. I hate to say that, because well, I feel like a fraud.
My disability cannot be seen from the outside. Sometimes it can be found in my actions and behaviour. I suffer only in episodes. Actually, that's not entirely true.
Basically, I have some symptoms all the time, and other symptoms when I escalate. A lack of desire, motivation, that's pretty constant. Things like voices are very common, mild hallucinations are quite common, and things like big scary hallucinations and delusions (having twisted and weird beliefs) are less common.
I also find it very hard to concentrate. This makes studying almost impossible.
But when I compare myself to someone who is disabled, physically, in a way that does not change, I feel like.. not that I shouldn't be labelled disabled, but that I'm put in the same category as people who I honestly believe have worse disabilities than me.
It also comes down to the 'what you can see'. With a physically disabled person, you can see it straight away. You can see the wheelchair, any physical attributes, you can see someone who is physically disabled or 'Can't Really Itch Places' or CRIP for short.
With me, like I said, you can't really see it. The only outside appearance that may give it away results from my lack of motivation. Times where I don't want to change my clothes, shower, tidy things. I look a mess at times, and I imagine that's not seen as a 'disability' but more as laziness.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is, do you think you treat disabled people differently? Is there a difference in your mind between the physically disabled, and the mentally ill, which you cannot easily see on the outside?
I would like to point out here that there's a spectrum to pretty much everything. It's hardly ever, if never, black and white. People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way? I believe it is in a way, but personally, I just think I make more fuss of it than what's really necessary and like I said, I feel like a fraud.
Would you think you would treat them as human beings, or are you prejudiced in anyway? Don't be embarrassed if you are, it's probably quite natural.
Beforehand I was worried about how I may treat or think of him differently in real life because of his disability. Online it's easy, I can throw a crip joke his way and we can both laugh about it. It's kinda faceless, easier to not feel so.. intimidated I guess, by how you should behave.
So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'. Thankfully it was fine, no problem at all. Tim was nervous too, but in the end it seemed we had nothing to worry about.
But it got me thinking a little about disability. I'm disabled too, but in a different way. I hate to say that, because well, I feel like a fraud.
My disability cannot be seen from the outside. Sometimes it can be found in my actions and behaviour. I suffer only in episodes. Actually, that's not entirely true.
Basically, I have some symptoms all the time, and other symptoms when I escalate. A lack of desire, motivation, that's pretty constant. Things like voices are very common, mild hallucinations are quite common, and things like big scary hallucinations and delusions (having twisted and weird beliefs) are less common.
I also find it very hard to concentrate. This makes studying almost impossible.
But when I compare myself to someone who is disabled, physically, in a way that does not change, I feel like.. not that I shouldn't be labelled disabled, but that I'm put in the same category as people who I honestly believe have worse disabilities than me.
It also comes down to the 'what you can see'. With a physically disabled person, you can see it straight away. You can see the wheelchair, any physical attributes, you can see someone who is physically disabled or 'Can't Really Itch Places' or CRIP for short.
With me, like I said, you can't really see it. The only outside appearance that may give it away results from my lack of motivation. Times where I don't want to change my clothes, shower, tidy things. I look a mess at times, and I imagine that's not seen as a 'disability' but more as laziness.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is, do you think you treat disabled people differently? Is there a difference in your mind between the physically disabled, and the mentally ill, which you cannot easily see on the outside?
I would like to point out here that there's a spectrum to pretty much everything. It's hardly ever, if never, black and white. People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way? I believe it is in a way, but personally, I just think I make more fuss of it than what's really necessary and like I said, I feel like a fraud.
Would you think you would treat them as human beings, or are you prejudiced in anyway? Don't be embarrassed if you are, it's probably quite natural.
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Sometimes I use music to drown out the voices, yeah. Sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it does.
Grix Thraves wrote:
> I may have to read all this a few times so forgive me
> (concentration) but I think you've stopped part way through your
> reply Marz?
Yeah, I read it back and saw it was getting a bit too revealing, and I changed it so it wouldn't be identifiable (with these being public forums and all). Very_Metal has the sort of approach I really respect, as we are all essentially fighters, plus his comments on Jeremy Kyle where very true.
Have you tried music Grix? Sounds simple but I know people who have never given it a chance. It helps with the mind management, sort of like a pair of blinkers in public places, as your thoughts tend not to wonder so much. Also, depending on the genre, songs with lyrics can aid concentration
> I may have to read all this a few times so forgive me
> (concentration) but I think you've stopped part way through your
> reply Marz?
Yeah, I read it back and saw it was getting a bit too revealing, and I changed it so it wouldn't be identifiable (with these being public forums and all). Very_Metal has the sort of approach I really respect, as we are all essentially fighters, plus his comments on Jeremy Kyle where very true.
Have you tried music Grix? Sounds simple but I know people who have never given it a chance. It helps with the mind management, sort of like a pair of blinkers in public places, as your thoughts tend not to wonder so much. Also, depending on the genre, songs with lyrics can aid concentration
Grix Thraves wrote:
> Alfonse wrote:
> Are are Timmargh and Thraves dating?
>
> I keep having to refuse his advances
Aye, praise the lord for steps otherwise we'd all be TimmyHo's by now.
> Alfonse wrote:
> Are are Timmargh and Thraves dating?
>
> I keep having to refuse his advances
Aye, praise the lord for steps otherwise we'd all be TimmyHo's by now.
Alfonse wrote:
> Are are Timmargh and Thraves dating?
I keep having to refuse his advances
> Are are Timmargh and Thraves dating?
I keep having to refuse his advances
Very_Metal wrote:
> a lot of what you describe mirrors my own experience Grix, and i
> don`t know about you, but i see it as a challenge. i`m taking the
> pills and going to the sessions, but not once have i asked to be
> signed off from anything. work is one of the few things that
> keeps my concentration from running amok with things i`d rather
> not think about and ultimately, i see it as an inconvenience, an
> irritation that while i may never be rid of, i shall do my
> damndest to shut it the hell up so i ca get on with things.
I got fired from most of my jobs. I couldn't concentrate, do the work. Anything physical, and my back plays up. I'd like to have a job I can concentrate on but it seems to be getting worse.
Have you been diagnosed with anything Metal?
> a lot of what you describe mirrors my own experience Grix, and i
> don`t know about you, but i see it as a challenge. i`m taking the
> pills and going to the sessions, but not once have i asked to be
> signed off from anything. work is one of the few things that
> keeps my concentration from running amok with things i`d rather
> not think about and ultimately, i see it as an inconvenience, an
> irritation that while i may never be rid of, i shall do my
> damndest to shut it the hell up so i ca get on with things.
I got fired from most of my jobs. I couldn't concentrate, do the work. Anything physical, and my back plays up. I'd like to have a job I can concentrate on but it seems to be getting worse.
Have you been diagnosed with anything Metal?
Are are Timmargh and Thraves dating?
having something tangible is easier to deal with i think.
mental illness is a pain because things like depression are very easy to just say "oh i`m depressed" and get put on some pills and signed off work (pausing only to appear on jeremy kyle to wear your unneeded pills like a badge of honour), so there`s definitely a stigma attached to that. aside from which, everyone thinks their problems are worse that anyone elses anyway, so everyone knows someone who`s "depressed".
a lot of what you describe mirrors my own experience Grix, and i don`t know about you, but i see it as a challenge. i`m taking the pills and going to the sessions, but not once have i asked to be signed off from anything. work is one of the few things that keeps my concentration from running amok with things i`d rather not think about and ultimately, i see it as an inconvenience, an irritation that while i may never be rid of, i shall do my damndest to shut it the hell up so i ca get on with things.
i see a disability as something permenant that cannot be helped, so mental illness falls into that catagory. while it`s not a fix, you can get a pill to cheer you up for a few hours, but you can`t get one that`ll get you walking again. whatever classes as a disability on paper, i think it`s down to how much it actually impacts your life to say whether A is worse than B.
mental illness is a pain because things like depression are very easy to just say "oh i`m depressed" and get put on some pills and signed off work (pausing only to appear on jeremy kyle to wear your unneeded pills like a badge of honour), so there`s definitely a stigma attached to that. aside from which, everyone thinks their problems are worse that anyone elses anyway, so everyone knows someone who`s "depressed".
a lot of what you describe mirrors my own experience Grix, and i don`t know about you, but i see it as a challenge. i`m taking the pills and going to the sessions, but not once have i asked to be signed off from anything. work is one of the few things that keeps my concentration from running amok with things i`d rather not think about and ultimately, i see it as an inconvenience, an irritation that while i may never be rid of, i shall do my damndest to shut it the hell up so i ca get on with things.
i see a disability as something permenant that cannot be helped, so mental illness falls into that catagory. while it`s not a fix, you can get a pill to cheer you up for a few hours, but you can`t get one that`ll get you walking again. whatever classes as a disability on paper, i think it`s down to how much it actually impacts your life to say whether A is worse than B.
I may have to read all this a few times so forgive me (concentration) but I think you've stopped part way through your reply Marz?
Grix Thraves wrote:
> What experience have you had with the mentally ill, Marzman?
I have formed my opinions based on experience, with the one glaring aspect being what a title does. I’ve known good people who where yes schizophrenic, but good people who where made worse with the title, due to the way it changes how people view you. One case was with a friend who was genuinely the most honest person I’ve ever met, yet due to his schizophrenia was treated like a (excuse my language) complete spaz, resulting in him committing suicide.
Now am I meant to ignore the fact that he even with his issues he was still more genuine than most people I meet, and that his diagnoses completely changed how the authorities and more importantly his family viewed him, resulting in him feeling so helpless he jumped in front of a train. I cannot and will not, because in my opinion whatever the condition, it does not warrant being treated as a second class citizen.
The saddest thing on a personal level with the above is that it does make me so angry. It’s because although that is the most serious event I’ve experienced, it is by no means isolated. Time and time again friends have tried to kill themselves due to one common theme; others and the way they are seen. Without this ingredient the causes would not go away but the consequences would be very different.
Nin, you’re right in that I was referring to want in relation to help. I’m also extremely glad that you felt compelled to post, as your posting had a degree of detachment that is vital for constructive conversation. Also your points about genes and triggers are interesting and I’d like to relate this to what GT touched on regarding loved ones and my views.
> What experience have you had with the mentally ill, Marzman?
I have formed my opinions based on experience, with the one glaring aspect being what a title does. I’ve known good people who where yes schizophrenic, but good people who where made worse with the title, due to the way it changes how people view you. One case was with a friend who was genuinely the most honest person I’ve ever met, yet due to his schizophrenia was treated like a (excuse my language) complete spaz, resulting in him committing suicide.
Now am I meant to ignore the fact that he even with his issues he was still more genuine than most people I meet, and that his diagnoses completely changed how the authorities and more importantly his family viewed him, resulting in him feeling so helpless he jumped in front of a train. I cannot and will not, because in my opinion whatever the condition, it does not warrant being treated as a second class citizen.
The saddest thing on a personal level with the above is that it does make me so angry. It’s because although that is the most serious event I’ve experienced, it is by no means isolated. Time and time again friends have tried to kill themselves due to one common theme; others and the way they are seen. Without this ingredient the causes would not go away but the consequences would be very different.
Nin, you’re right in that I was referring to want in relation to help. I’m also extremely glad that you felt compelled to post, as your posting had a degree of detachment that is vital for constructive conversation. Also your points about genes and triggers are interesting and I’d like to relate this to what GT touched on regarding loved ones and my views.
Its very rare that i actually feel compelled to reply to a post on here but Marzman's post struck a nerve. Although i think the "want" he was referring to was for help, not the actual illness. I agree with Grix. I was going to say no-one in the right mind would want to be mentally ill but... well you see the problem with that statement.
I dont think the two stand up to comparison in reality. (I hope no-one takes offence at what i'm about to say). Having spent a fair ammount of time stuck in hospital bed seriously ill and having spent the last 11 years in a complete mental rut, i preferred being hospital. In all honesty i'd rather spend the next year in a hospital bed in good mental health than as i am at the moment, seemingly physically fit but not right uptop. I think you can adapt to physical illness and to some extent you can overcome that with personality and strength. Mental illness though can strip you of your entire identity, life and the strength to put up with it.
The most frustrating thing of all? Its invisible. You have this problem that will always leave a doubt in yours and everyone else's mind if it even exists. The "There's nothing the hell wrong with me" thing pops into my head daily. From that thought you go onto "Maybe i'm just lazy/stupid/tempremental" and onwards. It took me 7 years to accept there was actually a problem and a further 3 to accept that i couldnt fix it by myself. I actively avoided trying to get any help. This idea that most mentally ill people go looking for help is a complete fallacy. They actively avoid it because the problem gets dismissed so often.
How exactly would someone self-inflict a mental-illness on themselves? In most cases it's seemingly a combination of weak genes and something that triggers the problem. Looking into my family history, my nan had major mental problems. 2 of her sons (my uncles) are major depressives, the other is schizophrenic. As for myself, major depressive with BPD.
The only thing i did agree with you on was the idea that we're supposed to overcome it. Its just my personal feelings but it feels like a test. I know i'm capable of more than i am.
Seeing as i've ranted this much i'll end with a peeve. Studying psychology last year (and failing miserably) we got onto evolutionary theory and the idea that things like schizophrenia and manic depression are actually a genetic advancement. You can cite Van Gogh and Churchill as examples of people who have benefitted from their problems. How is an illness that kills 40-50% of those with it an evolutionary advancement? Maybe its only a benefit for those who survive. I found it offensive regardless.
Jesus H Christ, i wrote that much?! It was only supposed to be a few lines.
I dont think the two stand up to comparison in reality. (I hope no-one takes offence at what i'm about to say). Having spent a fair ammount of time stuck in hospital bed seriously ill and having spent the last 11 years in a complete mental rut, i preferred being hospital. In all honesty i'd rather spend the next year in a hospital bed in good mental health than as i am at the moment, seemingly physically fit but not right uptop. I think you can adapt to physical illness and to some extent you can overcome that with personality and strength. Mental illness though can strip you of your entire identity, life and the strength to put up with it.
The most frustrating thing of all? Its invisible. You have this problem that will always leave a doubt in yours and everyone else's mind if it even exists. The "There's nothing the hell wrong with me" thing pops into my head daily. From that thought you go onto "Maybe i'm just lazy/stupid/tempremental" and onwards. It took me 7 years to accept there was actually a problem and a further 3 to accept that i couldnt fix it by myself. I actively avoided trying to get any help. This idea that most mentally ill people go looking for help is a complete fallacy. They actively avoid it because the problem gets dismissed so often.
How exactly would someone self-inflict a mental-illness on themselves? In most cases it's seemingly a combination of weak genes and something that triggers the problem. Looking into my family history, my nan had major mental problems. 2 of her sons (my uncles) are major depressives, the other is schizophrenic. As for myself, major depressive with BPD.
The only thing i did agree with you on was the idea that we're supposed to overcome it. Its just my personal feelings but it feels like a test. I know i'm capable of more than i am.
Seeing as i've ranted this much i'll end with a peeve. Studying psychology last year (and failing miserably) we got onto evolutionary theory and the idea that things like schizophrenia and manic depression are actually a genetic advancement. You can cite Van Gogh and Churchill as examples of people who have benefitted from their problems. How is an illness that kills 40-50% of those with it an evolutionary advancement? Maybe its only a benefit for those who survive. I found it offensive regardless.
Jesus H Christ, i wrote that much?! It was only supposed to be a few lines.
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