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I recently met up with Timmargh. Went to his house, had a lovely chat, watched Red Dwarf with him and made us some coffee.
Beforehand I was worried about how I may treat or think of him differently in real life because of his disability. Online it's easy, I can throw a crip joke his way and we can both laugh about it. It's kinda faceless, easier to not feel so.. intimidated I guess, by how you should behave.
So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'. Thankfully it was fine, no problem at all. Tim was nervous too, but in the end it seemed we had nothing to worry about.
But it got me thinking a little about disability. I'm disabled too, but in a different way. I hate to say that, because well, I feel like a fraud.
My disability cannot be seen from the outside. Sometimes it can be found in my actions and behaviour. I suffer only in episodes. Actually, that's not entirely true.
Basically, I have some symptoms all the time, and other symptoms when I escalate. A lack of desire, motivation, that's pretty constant. Things like voices are very common, mild hallucinations are quite common, and things like big scary hallucinations and delusions (having twisted and weird beliefs) are less common.
I also find it very hard to concentrate. This makes studying almost impossible.
But when I compare myself to someone who is disabled, physically, in a way that does not change, I feel like.. not that I shouldn't be labelled disabled, but that I'm put in the same category as people who I honestly believe have worse disabilities than me.
It also comes down to the 'what you can see'. With a physically disabled person, you can see it straight away. You can see the wheelchair, any physical attributes, you can see someone who is physically disabled or 'Can't Really Itch Places' or CRIP for short.
With me, like I said, you can't really see it. The only outside appearance that may give it away results from my lack of motivation. Times where I don't want to change my clothes, shower, tidy things. I look a mess at times, and I imagine that's not seen as a 'disability' but more as laziness.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is, do you think you treat disabled people differently? Is there a difference in your mind between the physically disabled, and the mentally ill, which you cannot easily see on the outside?
I would like to point out here that there's a spectrum to pretty much everything. It's hardly ever, if never, black and white. People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way? I believe it is in a way, but personally, I just think I make more fuss of it than what's really necessary and like I said, I feel like a fraud.
Would you think you would treat them as human beings, or are you prejudiced in anyway? Don't be embarrassed if you are, it's probably quite natural.
Beforehand I was worried about how I may treat or think of him differently in real life because of his disability. Online it's easy, I can throw a crip joke his way and we can both laugh about it. It's kinda faceless, easier to not feel so.. intimidated I guess, by how you should behave.
So I was nervous, thinking I wouldn't see him as 'human'. Thankfully it was fine, no problem at all. Tim was nervous too, but in the end it seemed we had nothing to worry about.
But it got me thinking a little about disability. I'm disabled too, but in a different way. I hate to say that, because well, I feel like a fraud.
My disability cannot be seen from the outside. Sometimes it can be found in my actions and behaviour. I suffer only in episodes. Actually, that's not entirely true.
Basically, I have some symptoms all the time, and other symptoms when I escalate. A lack of desire, motivation, that's pretty constant. Things like voices are very common, mild hallucinations are quite common, and things like big scary hallucinations and delusions (having twisted and weird beliefs) are less common.
I also find it very hard to concentrate. This makes studying almost impossible.
But when I compare myself to someone who is disabled, physically, in a way that does not change, I feel like.. not that I shouldn't be labelled disabled, but that I'm put in the same category as people who I honestly believe have worse disabilities than me.
It also comes down to the 'what you can see'. With a physically disabled person, you can see it straight away. You can see the wheelchair, any physical attributes, you can see someone who is physically disabled or 'Can't Really Itch Places' or CRIP for short.
With me, like I said, you can't really see it. The only outside appearance that may give it away results from my lack of motivation. Times where I don't want to change my clothes, shower, tidy things. I look a mess at times, and I imagine that's not seen as a 'disability' but more as laziness.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is, do you think you treat disabled people differently? Is there a difference in your mind between the physically disabled, and the mentally ill, which you cannot easily see on the outside?
I would like to point out here that there's a spectrum to pretty much everything. It's hardly ever, if never, black and white. People have ranges of problems and one physically disabled person may have.. I would say more problems, but I guess the term is more challenging situations. Is it right to compare the mentally ill to the physically disabled in that way? I believe it is in a way, but personally, I just think I make more fuss of it than what's really necessary and like I said, I feel like a fraud.
Would you think you would treat them as human beings, or are you prejudiced in anyway? Don't be embarrassed if you are, it's probably quite natural.
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Marzman wrote:
> Don’t get me wrong, he done wonders for changing how people
> think about life, but that was mainly in going a long way to
> dispel the concept of creationism.
Did Darwin dispel creationism? I thought he was a christian and his view was evolution was a design of god.
I've just done a bit of reading and he was a christian until the death of his daughter. Nonetheless i dont think evolutionary theory and a religious standpoint are mutually exclusive.
In the unlikely event someone want to read up on it
> Don’t get me wrong, he done wonders for changing how people
> think about life, but that was mainly in going a long way to
> dispel the concept of creationism.
Did Darwin dispel creationism? I thought he was a christian and his view was evolution was a design of god.
I've just done a bit of reading and he was a christian until the death of his daughter. Nonetheless i dont think evolutionary theory and a religious standpoint are mutually exclusive.
In the unlikely event someone want to read up on it
Nin wrote:
> I've had a theory for ages that it's an inbuilt inhibitor in the
> genes for when the human race has become too diverse or
> widespread and there is a risk of a social split.
That’s a brilliant theory that I would listen to, unlike Darwin who actually made me loose a little faith in science, due to the way you and others talk of his theories as if they are fact. Don’t get me wrong, he done wonders for changing how people think about life, but that was mainly in going a long way to dispel the concept of creationism.
Also, Garin does raise fundamental ideas on evolution, although I think the most important is that they are a glimpse into the future. What is unusual now may one day be the norm as history has proven. Trying to come up with evidence is rather difficult though, as in talking about the minority, there is obviously a lack of evidence to back up an argument.
> I've had a theory for ages that it's an inbuilt inhibitor in the
> genes for when the human race has become too diverse or
> widespread and there is a risk of a social split.
That’s a brilliant theory that I would listen to, unlike Darwin who actually made me loose a little faith in science, due to the way you and others talk of his theories as if they are fact. Don’t get me wrong, he done wonders for changing how people think about life, but that was mainly in going a long way to dispel the concept of creationism.
Also, Garin does raise fundamental ideas on evolution, although I think the most important is that they are a glimpse into the future. What is unusual now may one day be the norm as history has proven. Trying to come up with evidence is rather difficult though, as in talking about the minority, there is obviously a lack of evidence to back up an argument.
Garin wrote:
> Well evolution is neither positive or negative, it just is. A
> mutation doesnt have to be good or bad for it to survive.
A mutation is either beneficial to the species or it isn't and if it isn't, the idea is that it will eventually die it because it's not desirable.
It's true that some mutations survive by not being relevant until evolutionary selection isnt relevant anymore, that is, once you've had children you've fulfilled your genetic legacy. Something like alzheimers wouldnt be relevant in evolutionary selection because it doesn't show itself until late in life.
When you come to something like mental health though it's a different matter. The fact is in the majority of cases, a woman will choose someone perceived to be healthy over someone who isnt. The weak dont pass on their genes and die out. I was always told that was the basis of the evolutionary theory.
> Personally, I dont think much of the theory anyway. At least in
> this simplistic form. I think its possible you may inherit a
> combination of genes that make you more prone to such a mental
> illness. I doubt theres any such thing as a genetic on/off
> switch for something like schizophrenia though.
Didnt say a genetic on/off switch. I think it's a social on/off switch. Something like stress has been proven to mess with the brains chemicals, damage nuero-transmitters etc in people with a family history of mental illness.
> Well evolution is neither positive or negative, it just is. A
> mutation doesnt have to be good or bad for it to survive.
A mutation is either beneficial to the species or it isn't and if it isn't, the idea is that it will eventually die it because it's not desirable.
It's true that some mutations survive by not being relevant until evolutionary selection isnt relevant anymore, that is, once you've had children you've fulfilled your genetic legacy. Something like alzheimers wouldnt be relevant in evolutionary selection because it doesn't show itself until late in life.
When you come to something like mental health though it's a different matter. The fact is in the majority of cases, a woman will choose someone perceived to be healthy over someone who isnt. The weak dont pass on their genes and die out. I was always told that was the basis of the evolutionary theory.
> Personally, I dont think much of the theory anyway. At least in
> this simplistic form. I think its possible you may inherit a
> combination of genes that make you more prone to such a mental
> illness. I doubt theres any such thing as a genetic on/off
> switch for something like schizophrenia though.
Didnt say a genetic on/off switch. I think it's a social on/off switch. Something like stress has been proven to mess with the brains chemicals, damage nuero-transmitters etc in people with a family history of mental illness.
Nin wrote:
> Personally i just cant see it as an advancement. If the
> evolutionary theory is correct, mental "illness" would
> be massively widespread within 300 years. It's not exactly
> attractive to the opposite sex either so there is no reason for
> it to be a positive evolution and it should die out.
Well evolution is neither positive or negative, it just is. A mutation doesnt have to be good or bad for it to survive.
Personally, I dont think much of the theory anyway. At least in this simplistic form. I think its possible you may inherit a combination of genes that make you more prone to such a mental illness. I doubt theres any such thing as a genetic on/off switch for something like schizophrenia though.
> Personally i just cant see it as an advancement. If the
> evolutionary theory is correct, mental "illness" would
> be massively widespread within 300 years. It's not exactly
> attractive to the opposite sex either so there is no reason for
> it to be a positive evolution and it should die out.
Well evolution is neither positive or negative, it just is. A mutation doesnt have to be good or bad for it to survive.
Personally, I dont think much of the theory anyway. At least in this simplistic form. I think its possible you may inherit a combination of genes that make you more prone to such a mental illness. I doubt theres any such thing as a genetic on/off switch for something like schizophrenia though.
Marzman wrote:
> Nin has already raised the evolutionary idea as one of his pet
> peeves, but personally it makes more sense than being ill. If
> it were an illness wouldn’t there be a cure?
I dont get your logic there really but its difficult to define whether it's a gift or a burden because there are good and bad points.
Personally i just cant see it as an advancement. If the evolutionary theory is correct, mental "illness" would be massively widespread within 300 years. It's not exactly attractive to the opposite sex either so there is no reason for it to be a positive evolution and it should die out.
I've had a theory for ages that it's an inbuilt inhibitor in the genes for when the human race has become too diverse or widespread and there is a risk of a social split.
To answer the original post though, yes i treat disabled people differently albeit its largely unintentional. I'm aware that my hearing isn't brilliant and if i'm listening to someone with a speech problem, i really really dont want to have to ask them to repeat themselves if i miss something. Reverse that and i know my voice isn't particularly clear either so i tend to speak slowly if i've any doubt about whether someone can hear me. I can come across as unintentionally condescending so speaking to anyone disabled can be very uncomfortable for everyone involved.
My sister is mentally disabled but because i'm used to her i guess i treat her more normally. I then get my mum having a go at me because she think she needs to be more protected. I cant win :)
> Nin has already raised the evolutionary idea as one of his pet
> peeves, but personally it makes more sense than being ill. If
> it were an illness wouldn’t there be a cure?
I dont get your logic there really but its difficult to define whether it's a gift or a burden because there are good and bad points.
Personally i just cant see it as an advancement. If the evolutionary theory is correct, mental "illness" would be massively widespread within 300 years. It's not exactly attractive to the opposite sex either so there is no reason for it to be a positive evolution and it should die out.
I've had a theory for ages that it's an inbuilt inhibitor in the genes for when the human race has become too diverse or widespread and there is a risk of a social split.
To answer the original post though, yes i treat disabled people differently albeit its largely unintentional. I'm aware that my hearing isn't brilliant and if i'm listening to someone with a speech problem, i really really dont want to have to ask them to repeat themselves if i miss something. Reverse that and i know my voice isn't particularly clear either so i tend to speak slowly if i've any doubt about whether someone can hear me. I can come across as unintentionally condescending so speaking to anyone disabled can be very uncomfortable for everyone involved.
My sister is mentally disabled but because i'm used to her i guess i treat her more normally. I then get my mum having a go at me because she think she needs to be more protected. I cant win :)
Nin wrote:
> Shows how useful education and a understanding of whats going
> on
> in your head can be.
Very_Metal wrote:
> indeed.
> it`s by no means an answer, but (and this kinda backs up my
> original point) words in a book, facts, these are TANGIBLE
> things that help put it in focus for me sometimes. if it`s
> tangible then i have something to study, and if i can learn
> about something, i can beat it..
Education and understanding are different though. You can be told how something works but you won't learn how to work it unless you actually have a go. That's the heart of my ethos, as since the age of 4 i've had supposedly educated people telling me there's this physically or mentally wrong, and to date I've beaten all the physical aliments so surely mental health is achievable too.
Nin has already raised the evolutionary idea as one of his pet peeves, but personally it makes more sense than being ill. If it were an illness wouldn’t there be a cure? The term special is quite interesting too. Just because everyday situations are difficult it doesn’t mean your incapable, just that your talents lye elsewhere and it is just the wanting that is really doing the damage.
I’m going to run now before the barrage of insulting posts regarding hurt feelings. :-).
> Shows how useful education and a understanding of whats going
> on
> in your head can be.
Very_Metal wrote:
> indeed.
> it`s by no means an answer, but (and this kinda backs up my
> original point) words in a book, facts, these are TANGIBLE
> things that help put it in focus for me sometimes. if it`s
> tangible then i have something to study, and if i can learn
> about something, i can beat it..
Education and understanding are different though. You can be told how something works but you won't learn how to work it unless you actually have a go. That's the heart of my ethos, as since the age of 4 i've had supposedly educated people telling me there's this physically or mentally wrong, and to date I've beaten all the physical aliments so surely mental health is achievable too.
Nin has already raised the evolutionary idea as one of his pet peeves, but personally it makes more sense than being ill. If it were an illness wouldn’t there be a cure? The term special is quite interesting too. Just because everyday situations are difficult it doesn’t mean your incapable, just that your talents lye elsewhere and it is just the wanting that is really doing the damage.
I’m going to run now before the barrage of insulting posts regarding hurt feelings. :-).
Alfonse wrote:
> Are are Timmargh and Thraves dating?
Look, I've told you it's over between us -- stop calling me!
Grix Thraves wrote:
> I keep having to refuse his advances
Stop leading me on and I'll stop the advances.
Hedfix wrote:
> Aye, praise the lord for steps otherwise we'd all be TimmyHo's
> by now.
I offered you 15% of all takings -- what more do you want??!
> Are are Timmargh and Thraves dating?
Look, I've told you it's over between us -- stop calling me!
Grix Thraves wrote:
> I keep having to refuse his advances
Stop leading me on and I'll stop the advances.
Hedfix wrote:
> Aye, praise the lord for steps otherwise we'd all be TimmyHo's
> by now.
I offered you 15% of all takings -- what more do you want??!
Nin wrote:
> Shows how useful education and a understanding of whats going on
> in your head can be.
indeed.
it`s by no means an answer, but (and this kinda backs up my original point) words in a book, facts, these are TANGIBLE things that help put it in focus for me sometimes. if it`s tangible then i have something to study, and if i can learn about something, i can beat it.. "if it bleeds, we can kill it" :D
when i hit a low point this information is utterly pointless of course, but it can be quite good at breaking the fall as it were sometimes.
> Shows how useful education and a understanding of whats going on
> in your head can be.
indeed.
it`s by no means an answer, but (and this kinda backs up my original point) words in a book, facts, these are TANGIBLE things that help put it in focus for me sometimes. if it`s tangible then i have something to study, and if i can learn about something, i can beat it.. "if it bleeds, we can kill it" :D
when i hit a low point this information is utterly pointless of course, but it can be quite good at breaking the fall as it were sometimes.
Very_Metal wrote:
> i had to leave work early a couple of weeks ago because i could
> feel a "moment" coming on and they let me come back
> and work from home, but i appreciate that not everyone has that
> luxury. i need my work to tie me together as some days i feel
> it`s all that`s going right.
I had a similar story with a different ending. I had a job i liked and i went into work in a good mood. At some point during the morning this random thought came into my head, i cant remember whether it was something like "Are you happy?" or "What are you doing here?" and it just went downhill from there. 20 minutes of obsessing later i'd convinced myself that i wasnt happy at all, it was pointless being there and i walked out at lunch and never went back. Had i understood at that point that it was just my mind f**king with me i'd have rode it out. Those sort of spells where everything just seems wrong can be incredibly destructive.
Shows how useful education and a understanding of whats going on in your head can be.
> i had to leave work early a couple of weeks ago because i could
> feel a "moment" coming on and they let me come back
> and work from home, but i appreciate that not everyone has that
> luxury. i need my work to tie me together as some days i feel
> it`s all that`s going right.
I had a similar story with a different ending. I had a job i liked and i went into work in a good mood. At some point during the morning this random thought came into my head, i cant remember whether it was something like "Are you happy?" or "What are you doing here?" and it just went downhill from there. 20 minutes of obsessing later i'd convinced myself that i wasnt happy at all, it was pointless being there and i walked out at lunch and never went back. Had i understood at that point that it was just my mind f**king with me i'd have rode it out. Those sort of spells where everything just seems wrong can be incredibly destructive.
Shows how useful education and a understanding of whats going on in your head can be.
Grix Thraves wrote:
>
> Have you been diagnosed with anything Metal?
a strain of bipolarity and a mild personality disorder.
been seeing people on and off since i was about 6 but it never really started dawning on me why until i managed to slot a few things into place a few months ago.
the best analagy i can give is a deck of cards - each card represents a different mood or frame of mind. how i guage where i am is by how many times i draw a card within a short space of time.. less is better of course.
to my mind that sounds worse than it is, but i guess ask me that again when i`m in a trough. i dig the "up" side, it gives me my drive and focus, which i get a kick out of, which is why i`m keen to silence the down side as much as possible. now and again it has it`s uses, but i worked too hard to get where i am now (reggie perrin anyone? :D ) to have it jeopardised by something i refuse to submit to.
i had to leave work early a couple of weeks ago because i could feel a "moment" coming on and they let me come back and work from home, but i appreciate that not everyone has that luxury. i need my work to tie me together as some days i feel it`s all that`s going right.
>
> Have you been diagnosed with anything Metal?
a strain of bipolarity and a mild personality disorder.
been seeing people on and off since i was about 6 but it never really started dawning on me why until i managed to slot a few things into place a few months ago.
the best analagy i can give is a deck of cards - each card represents a different mood or frame of mind. how i guage where i am is by how many times i draw a card within a short space of time.. less is better of course.
to my mind that sounds worse than it is, but i guess ask me that again when i`m in a trough. i dig the "up" side, it gives me my drive and focus, which i get a kick out of, which is why i`m keen to silence the down side as much as possible. now and again it has it`s uses, but i worked too hard to get where i am now (reggie perrin anyone? :D ) to have it jeopardised by something i refuse to submit to.
i had to leave work early a couple of weeks ago because i could feel a "moment" coming on and they let me come back and work from home, but i appreciate that not everyone has that luxury. i need my work to tie me together as some days i feel it`s all that`s going right.
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