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someones making a 9/11 game, which is pretty sick, but check out
www.spong.com for news
www.spong.com for news
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The only one who talks bull sheet around here is you. The majority of people are sick of your lengthy and boring posts. Most of the time you just stary off the subject completely when you could sum up your side of the argument in one paragraph. Plenty of bull comes from you on a daily basis.
At least it's true, unlike you're bull. Don't go on making claims you cannot prove about conflicts whose history you seem to barely understand.
(and yes this is now at the level of total farce but what the hell)
(and yes this is now at the level of total farce but what the hell)
Briatin did not use anyone under 18 to fight during the wars, the only way these people could get in the army was if they lied about their age, although some 16 and 17 year olds were sent even if the sign up office knew they were underage, but they really wanted to go. some did, defending your country was and sometimes still is seen as the honourable thing to do and no-one wanted to be seen as a coward if they were physically able ro fight.
How do I know this? I'm studying a History Degree so there.
How do I know this? I'm studying a History Degree so there.
I have about things from WW2 however I don't think I know the answer to everything that happened in it as I haven't read enough. You on the other hand seem to think you know the answer to everything which you clearly don't.
Practical Magic wrote:
> Did anyone raise concerns about Delta Force Task Force Dagger ?
> Numerous mods ? Whacking various nations terrorists in various games ?
> Conflict Desert Storm ?
>
> Nope, so hang on, if I get this right, we can make games where we take
> out foreign terrorists and based on real events, but we can't make a
> game set in the West ? Sounds a bit like hypocrisy to me....
Ah yes, but in those games you're a hero - you're saving lives by killing people drawn out to be evil. There's some form of justice in that, which is why it's seen as morally acceptable.
Now I don't particularly have passionate views on this new twin-towers mod, but it's different to what you mentioned. There's no justice to it - it's just compacting one terrible, complicated event of terrorism into a small entertainment package.
True, it'll be barely noticed I expect, but it's a little tactless.
> Did anyone raise concerns about Delta Force Task Force Dagger ?
> Numerous mods ? Whacking various nations terrorists in various games ?
> Conflict Desert Storm ?
>
> Nope, so hang on, if I get this right, we can make games where we take
> out foreign terrorists and based on real events, but we can't make a
> game set in the West ? Sounds a bit like hypocrisy to me....
Ah yes, but in those games you're a hero - you're saving lives by killing people drawn out to be evil. There's some form of justice in that, which is why it's seen as morally acceptable.
Now I don't particularly have passionate views on this new twin-towers mod, but it's different to what you mentioned. There's no justice to it - it's just compacting one terrible, complicated event of terrorism into a small entertainment package.
True, it'll be barely noticed I expect, but it's a little tactless.
ÂLŠ†ÂÎR wrote:
> The only one who talks bull sheet around here is you. The majority of
> people are sick of your lengthy and boring posts. Most of the time you
> just stary off the subject completely when you could sum up your side
> of the argument in one paragraph. Plenty of bull comes from you on a
> daily basis.
Ali, if you didn't want this kind of confrontation, you should have made your point clear at the beginning and not replied with hostility when challenged. I don't think one person understood what you were getting at first time round, so I'm inclined to agree with Practical Magic - it looks like you're backtracking.
> The only one who talks bull sheet around here is you. The majority of
> people are sick of your lengthy and boring posts. Most of the time you
> just stary off the subject completely when you could sum up your side
> of the argument in one paragraph. Plenty of bull comes from you on a
> daily basis.
Ali, if you didn't want this kind of confrontation, you should have made your point clear at the beginning and not replied with hostility when challenged. I don't think one person understood what you were getting at first time round, so I'm inclined to agree with Practical Magic - it looks like you're backtracking.
ÂLŠ†ÂÎR wrote:
> I have about things from WW2 however I don't think I know the answer
> to everything that happened in it as I haven't read enough. You on the
> other hand seem to think you know the answer to everything which you
> clearly don't.
Okay, I'm willing to listen, prove me wrong using a reputable source on anything here. Go on. The Decoy backs up what me and Maverick said about teens being used.
Maverick made the point about in games like Conflict the player is the hero. He's right, but that's approaching the game from a western cultural view. Hezbollah have already made one game where their hero is a terrorist, and are currently working on a suicide bomber game. In a way the hero of this 9/11 mod is still going to be the player, fighting to escape the disaster caused by the terrorists on that day, the dilemma is that if the player can escape the buidling then it gives the impression that 'the hero' can beat the terrorists.
If the player cannot escape then the terrorists seem unbeatable. If the mod is based on the event then the player has to start from a level on or above the impact sites - we know that those in that situation on the day did not, as a rule, survive except for odd cases. They were trapped and beyond rescue in the time available. Those below the impacts stood a better chance. and evacuated with less casualties.
Really the objections for this mod should revolve around the fact that it's actually a crap gaming concept in the first place, let alone any offence it could cause. If anyone feels the need to do a 9/11 themed game then make one that is more encompassing of the true events.
A basic outline could be -
Movie of news footage from impacts.
FPS Section - Fire crews racing into and up the building, finding people.
FPS section - Emergency crews evacuating building - timed escape.
FPS Section - after the falls, finding and rescuing trapped people.
Movie of news footage showing after effects, Flight 93, the evidence pointint to Al Qaeda.
FPS Section - Special forces gathering intelligence
FPS Section - link up with Afghan rebels.
FPS Section - Operation Enduring Freedom day 1.
Have more missions based on it - search and destroy, hostage rescue, captures etc
FPS Section - search for Bin Laden and Co
3rd person section - control UAV's attacking mobile targets.
FPS Section - Border areas
Movie - end of war declared, fight goes on etc
That's really basic, but it sticks more to events, you don't suggest people could have escaped which couldn't, you don't insult so many people.
One of blackhawk down's (PC) main ideas was to donate a portion of the profits to a service personnel charity and involve the actual people who fought in the production, and paid tribute to those who lost their lives in the game and the manual.
> I have about things from WW2 however I don't think I know the answer
> to everything that happened in it as I haven't read enough. You on the
> other hand seem to think you know the answer to everything which you
> clearly don't.
Okay, I'm willing to listen, prove me wrong using a reputable source on anything here. Go on. The Decoy backs up what me and Maverick said about teens being used.
Maverick made the point about in games like Conflict the player is the hero. He's right, but that's approaching the game from a western cultural view. Hezbollah have already made one game where their hero is a terrorist, and are currently working on a suicide bomber game. In a way the hero of this 9/11 mod is still going to be the player, fighting to escape the disaster caused by the terrorists on that day, the dilemma is that if the player can escape the buidling then it gives the impression that 'the hero' can beat the terrorists.
If the player cannot escape then the terrorists seem unbeatable. If the mod is based on the event then the player has to start from a level on or above the impact sites - we know that those in that situation on the day did not, as a rule, survive except for odd cases. They were trapped and beyond rescue in the time available. Those below the impacts stood a better chance. and evacuated with less casualties.
Really the objections for this mod should revolve around the fact that it's actually a crap gaming concept in the first place, let alone any offence it could cause. If anyone feels the need to do a 9/11 themed game then make one that is more encompassing of the true events.
A basic outline could be -
Movie of news footage from impacts.
FPS Section - Fire crews racing into and up the building, finding people.
FPS section - Emergency crews evacuating building - timed escape.
FPS Section - after the falls, finding and rescuing trapped people.
Movie of news footage showing after effects, Flight 93, the evidence pointint to Al Qaeda.
FPS Section - Special forces gathering intelligence
FPS Section - link up with Afghan rebels.
FPS Section - Operation Enduring Freedom day 1.
Have more missions based on it - search and destroy, hostage rescue, captures etc
FPS Section - search for Bin Laden and Co
3rd person section - control UAV's attacking mobile targets.
FPS Section - Border areas
Movie - end of war declared, fight goes on etc
That's really basic, but it sticks more to events, you don't suggest people could have escaped which couldn't, you don't insult so many people.
One of blackhawk down's (PC) main ideas was to donate a portion of the profits to a service personnel charity and involve the actual people who fought in the production, and paid tribute to those who lost their lives in the game and the manual.
I agree with the idea of making the game a good one, instead pf a MOD.
Personally, i think that the mod will fail, i wexpect i'll get it, out of curiosity. I do not think that it's a sick idea, maybe it could have been a bit more acceptable in a few years time.If this argument was taking place 80 years in the future, i think people's views would be very different. I think PM and Ali are both right, and should stop argueing. Ali has a point about the concept of german soldiers being forced into war, it's the same principal, along with the easteren terrorist game (delta something) i think that 9/11 is not sick, or tactless. However to get the full picture, we'll have to play it, until then, we cannot make any assumptions.
Personally, i think that the mod will fail, i wexpect i'll get it, out of curiosity. I do not think that it's a sick idea, maybe it could have been a bit more acceptable in a few years time.If this argument was taking place 80 years in the future, i think people's views would be very different. I think PM and Ali are both right, and should stop argueing. Ali has a point about the concept of german soldiers being forced into war, it's the same principal, along with the easteren terrorist game (delta something) i think that 9/11 is not sick, or tactless. However to get the full picture, we'll have to play it, until then, we cannot make any assumptions.
The fact that anyone would even think about making a GAME on this subject....I am speechless. As someone who lives across the river from where the towers once stood, and had a front row seat for that day of devastation, I cannot even fathom the idea of a game made of this tragedy. Yes, maybe eighty years in the future, but for New Yorkers, this is still
a gaping hole in our lives. There are plenty of other things to make games about..why would anyone even think of this? Certainly not something I want to relive, in a game or in my nightmares, where I already do relive it quite often.
a gaping hole in our lives. There are plenty of other things to make games about..why would anyone even think of this? Certainly not something I want to relive, in a game or in my nightmares, where I already do relive it quite often.
That was the point I wanted to make. It was always going to happen but its far too early for those who were invloved. With the great line up of games across the Xbox, PC and Cube over the coming months I find it hard to believe that someone would want to play a 9/11 game even if it was free to download.
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