Viewing Thread:
"WEB DESIGN FORUM - WORLD LONGEST THREAD!"

This just aint gonna work is it.......

:-)

OK... confused here!! Dreamweaver?

Have any of you lot ever read "The Art and Science of Web Design" by Jeffery Veen ot "Designing Web Usability" by Jakob Nielsen... if not, I suggest you do!

I've worked in the industry for over 5 years now, before the dawn of WYSIWYG and the likes of (DW)Dreamweaver, MSFrontPage etc.

To call yourself a "Web Designer" you need to be able to work without WYSIWYG. If you understand HTML and all of its variations you can create anything to any level.

It's not just being able to make things look pretty either. How many of you know the diffrences between NS3, NS4, NS4.08, NS4.7, IE4, IE5, IE5.5, IE6, NS6, Opera 4, Linux , PC & Mac? etc etc... Just becuase a site built in Dreamweaver looks good in your favorite pre installed browser doesn't mean the rest of the world will see it how you do?

How many of you design sites using a pixel perfect method with absolute sizing? How many of you understand "relative sizing" All of this is part of understanding the mechanics of website construction and what goes on behind your pretty pictures and text, something Dreamweaver or any other editor can't tell you!

I use Dreamweaver in my current job purley for convienience and rapid prototyping. All of my fine tuning and advanced coding is all done by hand in Notepad or the code environment of DW.

To build a good site, all you need is a full understanding of HTML and it limitations, Notepad and a cheap freeware graphics package.

Dreamweaver is good, probably the best there is in the world of WYSIWYG. It's the web's answer to Quark, but it's not the be all and end all of website build and design...

There are too many people out there who claim to be Website Designers, when effectivley all they do is create layouts in a flash version of word.

The industry collapsed last year due and It's going to take time for the industry to recover and companies are now looking for more than a person who can make things look pretty and flash!

Understand the mechanics, look at others mistakes and try to avoid using the "latest" trends and most of all READ THE TWO BOOKS I MENTIONED AT THE START OF THIS!!!

I've been told that I'm good at what I do, but not because I'm creative, not becuase I can create a site and not because I used to be a Graphic Designer but because I understand the technology, the code and most of all how to use it... How many of you can create a site in code on paper with out looking at it though a browser?

I've probably annoyed some of you by spouting off like this... Apologies is I have, but I get fed up with reading and listening to arguments about what how why and when... Instead of looking forward, look back, there's more to be learnt there!!

It's not just being able
> to make things look pretty either. How many of you know the diffrences between
> NS3, NS4, NS4.08, NS4.7, IE4, IE5, IE5.5, IE6, NS6, Opera 4, Linux , PC &
> Mac? etc etc... Just becuase a site built in Dreamweaver looks good in your
> favorite pre installed browser doesn't mean the rest of the world will see it
> how you do?

Prime example of this:

http://www.hawk-eye.net

Re: SlaveUnit
mmm!! are these people blind?

Website design by MUPPETS!!

Tyla wrote:
> Re: SlaveUnit
mmm!! are these people blind?

Website design by MUPPETS!!

It's a company that my missus used to work for, I did some logos for them with my last company, and we tried to offer them a new website, but it was really touchy cos it was the company boss who made it (FW2, DW2, 21inch monitor) and we diddnt want her to lose her job.

The company have gone bust since, bayliffs came and took their PCs away. lol!

(use reply quoting message button)

ON the browser front; Netscape 3 and IE 3 are no longer used by any majority andso can be ingnored as they have way to many proglems with up to date code. You should check all the sites you make in IE 5 or 5.5 and NS 4.7. If it works in these then it is 99.999% certain to work in versions 6. The only other check you can do (which we have to do) is IE 5 and NS4.7 on the Mac. If it works on Netscape on the mac then it will work in basically any post 1995 browser.

> it was really touchy cos it was the company boss who made it (FW2, DW2, 21inch monitor)

Typical... I too had clients who when approached for a new site got incredibly touchy about it as it was their "baby". Unfortunately these are the people I hate... Go aout and but the latest software and hey presto they think they're web geniuses!!

The company have gone bust
> since, bayliffs came and took their PCs away. lol!

Horrah!! best thing for them!!:-)

(use reply quoting message
> button)

Cheers for the hint...

Bob wrote:
> ON the browser front; Netscape 3 and IE 3 are no longer used by any majority
> andso can be ingnored as they have way to many proglems with up to date code.

Depends on your audience... the company i work for still have a nuber of users still using mosaic!! The whole aim of HTML was foe a code that would "Degrade Gracefully" and be "Accessible" by all users of the internet. Browser legacy is the biggest problem of design and gives me nothing but headahces but you can't ignore those who aren't "up-to-date"

> You should check all the sites you make in IE 5 or 5.5 and NS 4.7. If it works
> in these then it is 99.999% certain to work in versions 6.

Not quite right... NS6 conforms strictly to the W3C DOM the rest don't! Buggy CSS that works in IE/NS<6 doesn't render in NS6. DHTML works in IE5+ and NS6 but not 4... It's personal prefernce of the designer. If you feel the need to use something Cutting Edge, then take ther leap, but when you have an audience of around 1,000,000 users a month on 4 patforms and upto 9 different browsers you have to be more compliant!

The only other check
> you can do (which we have to do) is IE 5 and NS4.7 on the Mac. If it works on
> Netscape on the mac then it will work in basically any post 1995 browser.

Funny that! Considering that the first Mozilla/Netscape browser was made in 1994 early 95!! Pre '94 and your looking at Mosaic, telenet and other text browsers!

But the Internet was no where near as wide spread in 94/95 as it is now, and when the likes of Freeserve came along, they had IE 4 (I think it was that version, whichever version wich was doing the rounds at that time) bundled with it, so most people will have a newer, 1997/1998 type browser, plus with the update features in IE, they would most likly update.
People who were using the Internet before the Internet was this popular would probably know by now that if they don't keep upto date with their browsers, then they will get left behind sooner or later. I agree that you have to cater for multi-browsers, but you have to set a limit, people can't stick with a old browser, it's just not the way the Internet works these days. With the things you can acheave in the Web, you'll need to keep up with the Technology used, so if you have a browser that has been updated, then you can't expect every Web Site to stay behind, well maybe with big company sites you can, but not with others, and their are more of those than business ones (that people will view anyway).

Though may I ask how you are able to run multiple versions of the Same Browser (I.E and NS) on the Same machine, as when I tried this, the older version of I.E was removed, and made way for the Update. I can run NS and I.E seperatly no probs, but when it comes to the same Browser, then I get problems.

Any help would be greatful.

Changing the subject, what is the most impressive site you have seen on the net?

Here are my two

http://www.zoosoft.com/
http://www.tidytrax.com/

I have probably seen some as good as these but have forgot the URL's.

romp.com

Cool flash site. (marginally adult orientated in sections.)