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"That Nintendo magic stuff...."

It's a strange state of affairs that Nintendo are the only company that can re-create Nintendo games.

Possibly the worlds worst opening statement but it is true, whilst playing classic gems such as Hitman 2 and err Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg it suddenly hit me (although it didn't hurt), as to why Mario Sunshine and Zelda ARE as good as their predecessors. (Just for those that spend the entire post complaing... "in my opinion" are as good as their predecssors).

Let me tell you about my game collection, yep brag brag I have 53 Gamecube games (*cough* loser *cough*) but you see 50 of them are what I like to call PLAIN games... titles that are good... have nice graphics... some have clever gameplay... some wonderfully simple gameplay... and some are crap because they don't adhere to any of those. But the top 3.... The Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United of my collection are 1: The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker 2: Super Mario Sunshine and 3: Mario Kart: Double Dash.

Yes this is a matter of opinion but in some dire attempt to express my point I'm going to justafy my decision. Let me guess, one of your first questions is where be Metroid Prime? And if it isn't one of your first questions then pretend it is for the sake of my argument. Metroid Prime is number 4, it is number 4 because it does have a "special feel" to it... but this is a special feel I can describe... this is fantastic because of amazing graphics, clever new gameplay ideas, brilliant handelling... wonderful engine.... it is number 4 on my list because it does EVERYTHING right and I'm not going to claim otherwise.

Hitman 2 is another game that does one hell of a lot of things right... a really good saving system and some damn smart AI... even my new pet game Billy Hatcher (which I'm enjoying now) does many many things right. But none of these 3 games or the 47 others come even close to Nintendo's main 3 titles (they are the main 3 because they all come in different coloured boxes... thusly they are more important).

Does Mario Kart have better graphics than Metroid? Not a chance. Does Mario Sunshine have a larger variety in gameplay than Billy Hatcher? Nope not really... what about Zelda, does that do everything as well as Hitman 2... no indeed it does not.

The reason why Wind Waker is better than all of the games is because of the "FEEL" an indescribable sixth sense which Nintendo only acchieve by spending such a damn long time on a game. Metroid Prime didn't get this luxery design time, neither did Wario World or the 100 other Nintendo games.... This is the Nintendo magic... that difference which is so difficult to describe. Graphics? Who needs them, Music? Whatever! Addictive gameplay from start to finish? Not 100% needed... nope Zelda rules because Zelda feels like Zelda.... Mario Kart rules because it feels like Mario Kart... Sunshine rules because it feels like Mario.

Now complaints about all these games came into play when Nintendo released them. Zelda had dull parts and felt shorter... Mario Sunshine did nothing really over Mario 64 and Mario Kart: Double Dash was just Mario Kart with some new ideas that only work as well as the gamer. But there will be no platformer from Sonic team, Ubi-Soft or any other developer that can beat Sunshine in this generation... only Mario himself can do that... because he has that Nintendo love... feel and passion throughout.

Yes Wind Waker may of done some new things that didn't always work as well as it could have done, a few ideas that didn't always pull off too well (the new control system and flying methods were great but the sailing was a tad dissapointing) but it had that same magic or feel that existed in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask that made that irrelevent... this "feel" makes any minor flaw totally insignificant... Mario Kart: Double Dash for me is the best in the series because I love the 2-character system but for those that don't you have to admit it STILL has the Mario Kart charm. Sunshine may of lacked variety, depth and contained too much collecting... but it still felt like a Mario game and had that same magic Mario feel and so therefore is still a classic.

There is Nintendo magic, a little sprinkle in every game that Nintendo make... but it is only the big titles that have the full blown magic effect... maybe it is because Miyamoto is more in control of these titles, I don't Know. I can't even describe what this extra bit is... but this is why Nintendo haven't lost it... this is why Nintendo are still the worlds greatest developer... because despite some (relativly minor) design faults in a few of their latest games... they still contain the Nintendo magic. And only when they lose that can Nintendo ever truly "lose it".

Here's to Dringo's multiple, obessive and seemingly pointless posts

Dringo - Fanboy till the end.

But Perfect Dark was delayed over a year! :-D



Anyways, it was worth the wait.
Besides, Nintendo wouldn't have to delay it THAT long to get it right.
The fact is, they intended it to be small so they'd get it out quick.

As to Double Dash, I'd say it's nothing on either Smash Brothers, Soccer Slam or Timesplitters 2.


Also, other than the 2 new battle modes, there were no new styles of play.
And other than the 128 Mario multi level, and the special cup tracks, the level design generally sucked.

Take away the double karts and you've got MK64 with slightly greased controls.


I think that I'm one of very few who don't specially like it...

Strafio wrote:

> Sure, games will always have reasons to be delayed, but I doubt we'll
> ever have the same problems with the N64 again.
> Besides, it would've been worth an extra 6 months for a more complete
> game...

We complained like mad every time Perfect Dark, OOT etc... was delayed... I remember I was there... we moaned and moaned and moaned... sales were down... Nintendo struggled. So Nintendo tried to release games quicker.

We moaned, they deliver, we moan again.

We are the worlds worst fan base I'm sure of it.

Anyway my point remains, Nintendo got the raw essence of Mario and Zelda, applied it, improved it... just the rest of it... the simple stuff that requires long development times... not 100% up to scratch... but it doesn't matter because as long as the raw essence, the nintendo magic is there it'll be fine... and it was there AND it was improved.

Double Dash is the personfication of Nintendo to come... a picture perfect game that had the Nintendo magic.

Maverick42 wrote:
> You've just reminded me of the end battle in the Wind Waker.
>
> Excellence.

Was impressive wasn't it.

I was also far more impressed by that black and white turned colour fight in the land of hyrule...

Had my heart in my mouth the whole time... the single best Zelda moment I believe...

Yes I'm sure of it... that and the highly twisted moon section in Majora's Mask.

Oh, and the N64's problem was that it was a bittch to work with, just like the PS2 got early accusations of.

Sure, games will always have reasons to be delayed, but I doubt we'll ever have the same problems with the N64 again.
Besides, it would've been worth an extra 6 months for a more complete game...

Maverick42 wrote:

> I only know of IGN and GAMES TM that think differently.
>
> And NOM, and GameSpot. As I say, only the ones I check. And those are
> the only ones I check :D

Bar maybe Games TM I have no respect for any of those publications...

That's the reason why they mean nothing.

Even though I wanna work for NOM... it's just down the bleeding road!

You've just reminded me of the end battle in the Wind Waker.

Excellence.

That's a good point.


I'm not ruling out what's to come.
Maybe Nintendo are just warming up.

After all, Pikmin, Mario and Zelda all had perfect makings of a game, it's just the games they were actually plonked in seemed a little unfinished.
With 2 years dedicated purely to minor gameplay tweaks/improvements and game design, it could be a completely different story the second time round.


I'll keep an eye out, but I doubt I'll ever buy a full priced game again.
Even if they are "must haves" I'll be able to wait.

Dringo wrote:
> Bar NGC, The Guardian, The Times, FHM, Kerrang, Me, Rickoss, the
> BBC...

Don't read the majority of them. Do read The Times though, and I recall they mentioned it was a very good game but passed no comment on whether it was better than Super Mario Kart or not. So that one's neutral.

Bet a fair few of the others are too.

> I only know of IGN and GAMES TM that think differently.

And NOM, and GameSpot. As I say, only the ones I check. And those are the only ones I check :D

Strafio wrote:

> Yeah, I have grown out of games to some extent, the fact that
> Nintendo have sliced their devellopment time to a fraction of what it
> used to be shows.
> The technological base tends to be flawless, and then the game around
> it get's half hashed.
>
> I've noticed it in nearly every Nintendo Gamecube game I've played.

Pikmin 2 has taken 2 years to make... surly Nintendo could have done it in 1?

Wind Waker 2 will have taken at least 2 years to do... despite the fact Majora's MAsk was done in 18 months.

Mario Tennis has been in development for 2 years already and it was done in 9 months for the N64.

Nintendo have not cut development times... Mario 64 was delayed... it delayed the entire N64 console, sure it turned out great but Nintendo missed the boat and suffered badly for it... Nintendo suffered for an extra year longer than it should too during the N64 era due to the delay on Ocarina of Time... Nintendo are just reducing delays...

Upon saying that Metroid Prime was delayed a full 6 months, Pikmin 2 has been delayed from November to April....

It looks as if Nintendo have released their first lot of software and are getting their next lot picture perfect.

Have you forgotten what a Mario game is about? It was never about long gameplay or revolution... Mario was always about fun!

I played missions in Sunshine again and again because it was fun. I jetted to the top of the light house just so I could dive off and go head first into the sand. I slid along the oil slicks down a hill and into water... climbed out and did it again. I did the no-fludd missions over and over because they were the pure basics of platforming at it's very best.

It didn't matter to me that the game was shorter (because to be blunt I didn't notice it was shorter)... it didn't matter that it had more interaction... it didn't matter about FLUDD... or the storyline or anything... all that mattered was that Mario was still fun. It still had the Mario charm... argue all you want about what should and shouldn't be in it, it's a matter of opinion...

Zelda games often have depth... but they sometimes don't. Zelda was always about you playing a young lad who never says much... but arrives in alien locations, see's the people's plea for help and rescues them... it was about fantastic sword buckling gameplay, beautiful graphics, gorgeous lands and fantastic characters.... Wind Waker had ALL of this... it really did in such full force as to never question it's greatness. Yep it was shorter if you count a good 20 hour odd game short.... but then that's not always a bad thing, it meant Nintendo got the game out quicker... it also meant I could actually complete it. Wind Waker does exactly what Zelda games always have done...

Mario Kart was always about unpredicable fantastic multiplayer and challenging single player fun! And Double Dash did this in full force.

When you become a critic games stop becoming fun, I try very hard to inject that back into my reviews... Mario rules because it's fun.... I will not knock down a score for too much collecting, reduction in size, repetitive environments... it was fun.

Zelda was magical, gorgeous and so much fun... it was in every essence a Zelda game... The Ruto's fire lare was similar to Goron Mountain, the drop dead gorgeous Deku level was so much more superior to the any forest level before it... the spirt type level was still there.... the fantastic hyrule segment remains in my eyes the best Zelda moment in ANY game... it was shorter but I'm not a believer that a game to be better has to be longer, but when i reviewed the game I ignored the factor that a once or twice the sailing got dull, or their was less to the game... or towards the latter half the storyline slowed a bit... i ignored it all and concentrated on why I LOVED the game... not what was wrong with it.

And I loved it because it did Zelda right and so much better.

I loved all 3 games because it re-created that Nintendo magic and improved on it.

And if you cannot see that then you never will... and I'll just have to walk away.... leaving you as a lost cause.