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It's a strange state of affairs that Nintendo are the only company that can re-create Nintendo games.
Possibly the worlds worst opening statement but it is true, whilst playing classic gems such as Hitman 2 and err Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg it suddenly hit me (although it didn't hurt), as to why Mario Sunshine and Zelda ARE as good as their predecessors. (Just for those that spend the entire post complaing... "in my opinion" are as good as their predecssors).
Let me tell you about my game collection, yep brag brag I have 53 Gamecube games (*cough* loser *cough*) but you see 50 of them are what I like to call PLAIN games... titles that are good... have nice graphics... some have clever gameplay... some wonderfully simple gameplay... and some are crap because they don't adhere to any of those. But the top 3.... The Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United of my collection are 1: The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker 2: Super Mario Sunshine and 3: Mario Kart: Double Dash.
Yes this is a matter of opinion but in some dire attempt to express my point I'm going to justafy my decision. Let me guess, one of your first questions is where be Metroid Prime? And if it isn't one of your first questions then pretend it is for the sake of my argument. Metroid Prime is number 4, it is number 4 because it does have a "special feel" to it... but this is a special feel I can describe... this is fantastic because of amazing graphics, clever new gameplay ideas, brilliant handelling... wonderful engine.... it is number 4 on my list because it does EVERYTHING right and I'm not going to claim otherwise.
Hitman 2 is another game that does one hell of a lot of things right... a really good saving system and some damn smart AI... even my new pet game Billy Hatcher (which I'm enjoying now) does many many things right. But none of these 3 games or the 47 others come even close to Nintendo's main 3 titles (they are the main 3 because they all come in different coloured boxes... thusly they are more important).
Does Mario Kart have better graphics than Metroid? Not a chance. Does Mario Sunshine have a larger variety in gameplay than Billy Hatcher? Nope not really... what about Zelda, does that do everything as well as Hitman 2... no indeed it does not.
The reason why Wind Waker is better than all of the games is because of the "FEEL" an indescribable sixth sense which Nintendo only acchieve by spending such a damn long time on a game. Metroid Prime didn't get this luxery design time, neither did Wario World or the 100 other Nintendo games.... This is the Nintendo magic... that difference which is so difficult to describe. Graphics? Who needs them, Music? Whatever! Addictive gameplay from start to finish? Not 100% needed... nope Zelda rules because Zelda feels like Zelda.... Mario Kart rules because it feels like Mario Kart... Sunshine rules because it feels like Mario.
Now complaints about all these games came into play when Nintendo released them. Zelda had dull parts and felt shorter... Mario Sunshine did nothing really over Mario 64 and Mario Kart: Double Dash was just Mario Kart with some new ideas that only work as well as the gamer. But there will be no platformer from Sonic team, Ubi-Soft or any other developer that can beat Sunshine in this generation... only Mario himself can do that... because he has that Nintendo love... feel and passion throughout.
Yes Wind Waker may of done some new things that didn't always work as well as it could have done, a few ideas that didn't always pull off too well (the new control system and flying methods were great but the sailing was a tad dissapointing) but it had that same magic or feel that existed in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask that made that irrelevent... this "feel" makes any minor flaw totally insignificant... Mario Kart: Double Dash for me is the best in the series because I love the 2-character system but for those that don't you have to admit it STILL has the Mario Kart charm. Sunshine may of lacked variety, depth and contained too much collecting... but it still felt like a Mario game and had that same magic Mario feel and so therefore is still a classic.
There is Nintendo magic, a little sprinkle in every game that Nintendo make... but it is only the big titles that have the full blown magic effect... maybe it is because Miyamoto is more in control of these titles, I don't Know. I can't even describe what this extra bit is... but this is why Nintendo haven't lost it... this is why Nintendo are still the worlds greatest developer... because despite some (relativly minor) design faults in a few of their latest games... they still contain the Nintendo magic. And only when they lose that can Nintendo ever truly "lose it".
Here's to Dringo's multiple, obessive and seemingly pointless posts
Dringo - Fanboy till the end.
Possibly the worlds worst opening statement but it is true, whilst playing classic gems such as Hitman 2 and err Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg it suddenly hit me (although it didn't hurt), as to why Mario Sunshine and Zelda ARE as good as their predecessors. (Just for those that spend the entire post complaing... "in my opinion" are as good as their predecssors).
Let me tell you about my game collection, yep brag brag I have 53 Gamecube games (*cough* loser *cough*) but you see 50 of them are what I like to call PLAIN games... titles that are good... have nice graphics... some have clever gameplay... some wonderfully simple gameplay... and some are crap because they don't adhere to any of those. But the top 3.... The Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United of my collection are 1: The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker 2: Super Mario Sunshine and 3: Mario Kart: Double Dash.
Yes this is a matter of opinion but in some dire attempt to express my point I'm going to justafy my decision. Let me guess, one of your first questions is where be Metroid Prime? And if it isn't one of your first questions then pretend it is for the sake of my argument. Metroid Prime is number 4, it is number 4 because it does have a "special feel" to it... but this is a special feel I can describe... this is fantastic because of amazing graphics, clever new gameplay ideas, brilliant handelling... wonderful engine.... it is number 4 on my list because it does EVERYTHING right and I'm not going to claim otherwise.
Hitman 2 is another game that does one hell of a lot of things right... a really good saving system and some damn smart AI... even my new pet game Billy Hatcher (which I'm enjoying now) does many many things right. But none of these 3 games or the 47 others come even close to Nintendo's main 3 titles (they are the main 3 because they all come in different coloured boxes... thusly they are more important).
Does Mario Kart have better graphics than Metroid? Not a chance. Does Mario Sunshine have a larger variety in gameplay than Billy Hatcher? Nope not really... what about Zelda, does that do everything as well as Hitman 2... no indeed it does not.
The reason why Wind Waker is better than all of the games is because of the "FEEL" an indescribable sixth sense which Nintendo only acchieve by spending such a damn long time on a game. Metroid Prime didn't get this luxery design time, neither did Wario World or the 100 other Nintendo games.... This is the Nintendo magic... that difference which is so difficult to describe. Graphics? Who needs them, Music? Whatever! Addictive gameplay from start to finish? Not 100% needed... nope Zelda rules because Zelda feels like Zelda.... Mario Kart rules because it feels like Mario Kart... Sunshine rules because it feels like Mario.
Now complaints about all these games came into play when Nintendo released them. Zelda had dull parts and felt shorter... Mario Sunshine did nothing really over Mario 64 and Mario Kart: Double Dash was just Mario Kart with some new ideas that only work as well as the gamer. But there will be no platformer from Sonic team, Ubi-Soft or any other developer that can beat Sunshine in this generation... only Mario himself can do that... because he has that Nintendo love... feel and passion throughout.
Yes Wind Waker may of done some new things that didn't always work as well as it could have done, a few ideas that didn't always pull off too well (the new control system and flying methods were great but the sailing was a tad dissapointing) but it had that same magic or feel that existed in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask that made that irrelevent... this "feel" makes any minor flaw totally insignificant... Mario Kart: Double Dash for me is the best in the series because I love the 2-character system but for those that don't you have to admit it STILL has the Mario Kart charm. Sunshine may of lacked variety, depth and contained too much collecting... but it still felt like a Mario game and had that same magic Mario feel and so therefore is still a classic.
There is Nintendo magic, a little sprinkle in every game that Nintendo make... but it is only the big titles that have the full blown magic effect... maybe it is because Miyamoto is more in control of these titles, I don't Know. I can't even describe what this extra bit is... but this is why Nintendo haven't lost it... this is why Nintendo are still the worlds greatest developer... because despite some (relativly minor) design faults in a few of their latest games... they still contain the Nintendo magic. And only when they lose that can Nintendo ever truly "lose it".
Here's to Dringo's multiple, obessive and seemingly pointless posts
Dringo - Fanboy till the end.
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ÂLŠ†ÂÎR wrote:
> 4 of those games were on PC, hence multiformat.
Not really though. I mean, the PC doesn't really count.
> The PS2 version of Deus EX is just plain awful,
No it's not. It may suffer from slow down and a dodgy frame rate at times, but it's still an astounding game. In some respects, it's a better game in the way that it was refined/simplified for the PS2 release.
> 4 of those games were on PC, hence multiformat.
Not really though. I mean, the PC doesn't really count.
> The PS2 version of Deus EX is just plain awful,
No it's not. It may suffer from slow down and a dodgy frame rate at times, but it's still an astounding game. In some respects, it's a better game in the way that it was refined/simplified for the PS2 release.
So the PC suddenly doesn't exist, I see...
Not only did it suffer from poor visuals, a crap frame rate, a menu system that was suitable for nursery children as it took away some of the games magic, smaller level design to cope with PS2 hardware and compressed audio which sounded almost mono in quality at times but it was also made easier for PS2 onwers. I have played and completed both versions and the PS2 version is crap in comparison.
Not only did it suffer from poor visuals, a crap frame rate, a menu system that was suitable for nursery children as it took away some of the games magic, smaller level design to cope with PS2 hardware and compressed audio which sounded almost mono in quality at times but it was also made easier for PS2 onwers. I have played and completed both versions and the PS2 version is crap in comparison.
What can I say but each to their own.
The N64 was the last time Nintendo impressed me.
I understand what Dringo means by the "feel" (except in Mario Kart's case, which was alright, but I didn't pick it up and "feel" it) because Windwaker and Sunshine have some of the most intuitive and slickest controls out there.
For me, though, they didn't hold up for the game's lack of content.
The N64 was the last time Nintendo impressed me.
I understand what Dringo means by the "feel" (except in Mario Kart's case, which was alright, but I didn't pick it up and "feel" it) because Windwaker and Sunshine have some of the most intuitive and slickest controls out there.
For me, though, they didn't hold up for the game's lack of content.
After recently playing and immensly enjoying Wind Waker and then going back to play the N64 Bonus disc I couldn't help but feel gutted. The Wind Waker is a HUGE improvement from my point of view, genius genius game.
Strafio wrote:
> What can I say but each to their own.
>
>
> The N64 was the last time Nintendo impressed me.
You are looking back through rose tinted specs my friend, it is a habit we all do. The N64 was so much better than the Gamecube... when in fact we had just as many complaints... querys... annoyances. You say the games on the N64 impressed you, that is of course true but the thing is you've grown and changed... the Wind Waker and Mario Sunshine are AS good as their previous titles but as you've grown you don't appreciate them in the same way you used to and so therefore don't like them as much.
In reality they played just as well as they always have done... Wind Waker was a beautiful game filled with fantastically clever and comical mini games... a little lacking in the story but besides that Zelda at its finest. Mario Sunshine lacked variety but had a new Mario feel to it despite feeling like Mario. From your P.O.V Nintendo no longer rule as much as they used to... but really mate they do rule as much as they used to... just looking back is always a stupid thing to do.
> What can I say but each to their own.
>
>
> The N64 was the last time Nintendo impressed me.
You are looking back through rose tinted specs my friend, it is a habit we all do. The N64 was so much better than the Gamecube... when in fact we had just as many complaints... querys... annoyances. You say the games on the N64 impressed you, that is of course true but the thing is you've grown and changed... the Wind Waker and Mario Sunshine are AS good as their previous titles but as you've grown you don't appreciate them in the same way you used to and so therefore don't like them as much.
In reality they played just as well as they always have done... Wind Waker was a beautiful game filled with fantastically clever and comical mini games... a little lacking in the story but besides that Zelda at its finest. Mario Sunshine lacked variety but had a new Mario feel to it despite feeling like Mario. From your P.O.V Nintendo no longer rule as much as they used to... but really mate they do rule as much as they used to... just looking back is always a stupid thing to do.
In defence of Mario Kart:
Mario Kart has created a feel to it... a game that is filled with Nintendo's love and passion for fast paced, egg fireing multiplayer fun. It's feel has now been created by Nintendo and re-created year in year out for the Mario Kart series. Mario Kart has it's unique brand of Nintendo magic and Double Dash, my favourite in the series, contains that magic too.
The thing is about the N64 is that it created so many franchises but none of them really contain that Nintendo passion that exists with Mario and Zelda... the Gamecube has invented Pikmin and Metroid Prime... games that when they get sequels will also reek this magic...
These games are fun and have a "special feel" but until Metroid Prime 2 and Pikmin 2 (both this year) are released we won't truly realise this. You see until we play games that are very different but errily similar that we spot that they do indeed have Nintendo's sixth sense locked away within.
We always look back through rose tinted specs... when playing Ocarina of Time we wanted a better graphical upgrade with a more heart wrenching storyline... we got better graphics but not how we imagined it and the storyline was more comical, especially with the side stories... this IS NOT what we wanted but what we got instead was some fantastic new ideas, the ability to fly... beautiful beautiful graphics and the worlds best ever control system... this is what Nintendo gave us instead.
Wind Waker is my favourite Zelda, Sunshine is my favourite 3D Mario game... Double Dash is my favourite Mario Kart... because I'm not looking back and thinking it is better in the good ol' days.
Remember when your Grandad tells you how Politicians were good in their day, how prices were fair and everyone respected their elders? It's all crap... but they are looking back at the positive... the negative only really exists in the present.
Mario Kart has created a feel to it... a game that is filled with Nintendo's love and passion for fast paced, egg fireing multiplayer fun. It's feel has now been created by Nintendo and re-created year in year out for the Mario Kart series. Mario Kart has it's unique brand of Nintendo magic and Double Dash, my favourite in the series, contains that magic too.
The thing is about the N64 is that it created so many franchises but none of them really contain that Nintendo passion that exists with Mario and Zelda... the Gamecube has invented Pikmin and Metroid Prime... games that when they get sequels will also reek this magic...
These games are fun and have a "special feel" but until Metroid Prime 2 and Pikmin 2 (both this year) are released we won't truly realise this. You see until we play games that are very different but errily similar that we spot that they do indeed have Nintendo's sixth sense locked away within.
We always look back through rose tinted specs... when playing Ocarina of Time we wanted a better graphical upgrade with a more heart wrenching storyline... we got better graphics but not how we imagined it and the storyline was more comical, especially with the side stories... this IS NOT what we wanted but what we got instead was some fantastic new ideas, the ability to fly... beautiful beautiful graphics and the worlds best ever control system... this is what Nintendo gave us instead.
Wind Waker is my favourite Zelda, Sunshine is my favourite 3D Mario game... Double Dash is my favourite Mario Kart... because I'm not looking back and thinking it is better in the good ol' days.
Remember when your Grandad tells you how Politicians were good in their day, how prices were fair and everyone respected their elders? It's all crap... but they are looking back at the positive... the negative only really exists in the present.
ÂLŠ†ÂÎR wrote:
> So the PC suddenly doesn't exist, I see...
I mean that because so many games are ported to PC these days and it's so expensive to maintain, I and many others are choosing not to use it as a gaming device. I appreciate that these games exist, and some people play and enjoy them, but they should really be acreditted as exclusives to their relative consoles. Especially when they're sometimes better on the console (e.g. Halo, PES3).
> Not only did it suffer from poor visuals, a crap frame rate, a menu
> system that was suitable for nursery children as it took away some of
> the games magic, smaller level design to cope with PS2 hardware and
> compressed audio which sounded almost mono in quality at times but it
> was also made easier for PS2 onwers. I have played and completed both
> versions and the PS2 version is crap in comparison.
I played Deus Ex on PC and found it difficult to get into. The PS2 version had it's obvious flaws, but I still found it an exceptional game and the simplification is actually benificial in some respects. I'm someone who can put framerate issues aside (hell, I enjoy Morrowind) and so that didn't spoil my enjoyment of the game.
After having played the PS2 version the whole way through, it is essentially the same game and is an excellent experience. The free-from/RPG feel is still very much apparent - and the majority of the game has remained the same, with only a few minor aspects being altered.
> So the PC suddenly doesn't exist, I see...
I mean that because so many games are ported to PC these days and it's so expensive to maintain, I and many others are choosing not to use it as a gaming device. I appreciate that these games exist, and some people play and enjoy them, but they should really be acreditted as exclusives to their relative consoles. Especially when they're sometimes better on the console (e.g. Halo, PES3).
> Not only did it suffer from poor visuals, a crap frame rate, a menu
> system that was suitable for nursery children as it took away some of
> the games magic, smaller level design to cope with PS2 hardware and
> compressed audio which sounded almost mono in quality at times but it
> was also made easier for PS2 onwers. I have played and completed both
> versions and the PS2 version is crap in comparison.
I played Deus Ex on PC and found it difficult to get into. The PS2 version had it's obvious flaws, but I still found it an exceptional game and the simplification is actually benificial in some respects. I'm someone who can put framerate issues aside (hell, I enjoy Morrowind) and so that didn't spoil my enjoyment of the game.
After having played the PS2 version the whole way through, it is essentially the same game and is an excellent experience. The free-from/RPG feel is still very much apparent - and the majority of the game has remained the same, with only a few minor aspects being altered.
Whats better about Halo on the Xbox? You go ahead and say these c*ck ass sayings without even playing the PC versions.
Dringo wrote:
> Wind Waker is my favourite Zelda, Sunshine is my favourite 3D Mario
> game... Double Dash is my favourite Mario Kart... because I'm not
> looking back and thinking it is better in the good ol' days.
>
> Remember when your Grandad tells you how Politicians were good in
> their day, how prices were fair and everyone respected their elders?
> It's all crap... but they are looking back at the positive... the
> negative only really exists in the present.
No, that's actually what I think.
You can try and dismiss my opinion with excuses like that, but that won't change the fact that I feel that Ocarina of Time was a superior game to the Wind Waker. I think Super Mario Kart is far better than Double Dash, and Super Mario World was the pinnacle of the Mario series.
Am I being pretentious? No. When I first played Ocarina of Time, I thought "this is truly the greatest game I've ever experienced". I didn't, for example, say "well, not quite as good as the classic Link to the Past". Because I didn't think so, and I will always say what I think. I remember loving Fawlty Towers and Only Fools & Horses - but my favourite sitcom is Friends; modern and with a widespread appeal.
> Wind Waker is my favourite Zelda, Sunshine is my favourite 3D Mario
> game... Double Dash is my favourite Mario Kart... because I'm not
> looking back and thinking it is better in the good ol' days.
>
> Remember when your Grandad tells you how Politicians were good in
> their day, how prices were fair and everyone respected their elders?
> It's all crap... but they are looking back at the positive... the
> negative only really exists in the present.
No, that's actually what I think.
You can try and dismiss my opinion with excuses like that, but that won't change the fact that I feel that Ocarina of Time was a superior game to the Wind Waker. I think Super Mario Kart is far better than Double Dash, and Super Mario World was the pinnacle of the Mario series.
Am I being pretentious? No. When I first played Ocarina of Time, I thought "this is truly the greatest game I've ever experienced". I didn't, for example, say "well, not quite as good as the classic Link to the Past". Because I didn't think so, and I will always say what I think. I remember loving Fawlty Towers and Only Fools & Horses - but my favourite sitcom is Friends; modern and with a widespread appeal.
ÂLŠ†ÂÎR wrote:
> Whats better about Halo on the Xbox? You go ahead and say these c*ck
> ass sayings without even playing the PC versions.
Woah. Touched a nerve? Calm down.
Halo was a poor transition to PC, and the Xbox version with three friends, and all vehicles on Blood Gulch has provided a good few hours of fun for me and my mates.
> Whats better about Halo on the Xbox? You go ahead and say these c*ck
> ass sayings without even playing the PC versions.
Woah. Touched a nerve? Calm down.
Halo was a poor transition to PC, and the Xbox version with three friends, and all vehicles on Blood Gulch has provided a good few hours of fun for me and my mates.
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