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This thread has been linked to the game 'Pikmin'.
I'm a bit sick of Hitman 2 and Harvest Moon at moment, along with my other currently-played games, so I decided to give Pikmin a quick go and really rekindled my love of the thin, odd looking plants.
I never really remember Pikmin being as good as it is. I always liked it, but returning it seems wonderful, and more of a Nintendo game than Wind Waker and Sunshine. Building up 100's of slaves, racing against the clock to safety... I never really realised how great this is, and despite being a bit sceptical about the 2nd, I'm really looking forward to it now.
RBS is just plain wrong. Not liking this is foolish, it's a true Nintendo masterpiece and, in terms of gameplay, almost faultless (bar a few niggles when trying to seperate Pikmin.)
This is why a bought a GameCube.
I never really remember Pikmin being as good as it is. I always liked it, but returning it seems wonderful, and more of a Nintendo game than Wind Waker and Sunshine. Building up 100's of slaves, racing against the clock to safety... I never really realised how great this is, and despite being a bit sceptical about the 2nd, I'm really looking forward to it now.
RBS is just plain wrong. Not liking this is foolish, it's a true Nintendo masterpiece and, in terms of gameplay, almost faultless (bar a few niggles when trying to seperate Pikmin.)
This is why a bought a GameCube.
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If Retro were totally perfect and had many years to make Prime there is no way they would make it first person. A third person game will feel far more isolated as you get the sense of space and emptiness.
The game will be easier to move and just genuinly that much better.
But they're not, Metroid Prime is realistically the best game we could possibly get.
The game will be easier to move and just genuinly that much better.
But they're not, Metroid Prime is realistically the best game we could possibly get.
Without the first person view, Metroid Prime would have lost so much. Not just the scanning (which is a great feature), but the feeling of true isolation would be lost, perhaps not completely, but certainly not to the same extent. Acrobatics worked in the 2D titles but Prime was never meant to be a traditional Metroid title and I believe it works better.
Of course anyone with a great imagination can create a brilliant game.
But developers have to be realistic and see what they can REALLY make. Not just your idealistic views.
Nintendo must have spent the last 2 years removing the time limit and seeing how they can keep the re-playability and the time management.
They came up with keeping the day limit for time management and replayability with a multiplayer.
Of course they added to the game with new Pikmin, randomly generated areas, new monsters and a 2 character system.
But Metroid Prime is different, a 3rd person Metroid game could work absolute wonders. But it isn't as easy as we think, to create a 3rd person game is not just very hard but to create that around one of the worlds most popular franchises' is also very demanding.
A first person view may reduce how good the game could have been potentially... but realistically if the game was done in third person it would have been far more challenging and as the team are FPS experts they will find it hard to find their feet. The game would ultimatly be worse for it.
We can always imagine a perfect game, but the developers know their own limits and RETRO are just not up to making one of the hardest forms of game known to man.
But developers have to be realistic and see what they can REALLY make. Not just your idealistic views.
Nintendo must have spent the last 2 years removing the time limit and seeing how they can keep the re-playability and the time management.
They came up with keeping the day limit for time management and replayability with a multiplayer.
Of course they added to the game with new Pikmin, randomly generated areas, new monsters and a 2 character system.
But Metroid Prime is different, a 3rd person Metroid game could work absolute wonders. But it isn't as easy as we think, to create a 3rd person game is not just very hard but to create that around one of the worlds most popular franchises' is also very demanding.
A first person view may reduce how good the game could have been potentially... but realistically if the game was done in third person it would have been far more challenging and as the team are FPS experts they will find it hard to find their feet. The game would ultimatly be worse for it.
We can always imagine a perfect game, but the developers know their own limits and RETRO are just not up to making one of the hardest forms of game known to man.
You like Pikmin with a time limit, because it's what you were given and you can't imagine it in any other way.
You like Metroid Prime in first person, because that's what you were given and loved and you can't imagine it in any other way.
But me being the over-critical dreamer I am, I can. :-)
Seriously, I can see where you're coming from, but although it did make the game harder for me, it also meant that it was over far too quickly because I felt forced to rush through it.
The only games that I've found that ever justified a time limit were racing games or other games where speed is the whole objective of the game. Otherwise it's just a nuisance, putting you off when you want to enjoy what's good about the game.
You like Metroid Prime in first person, because that's what you were given and loved and you can't imagine it in any other way.
But me being the over-critical dreamer I am, I can. :-)
Seriously, I can see where you're coming from, but although it did make the game harder for me, it also meant that it was over far too quickly because I felt forced to rush through it.
The only games that I've found that ever justified a time limit were racing games or other games where speed is the whole objective of the game. Otherwise it's just a nuisance, putting you off when you want to enjoy what's good about the game.
Well I'll get Pikmin 2, enjoy it and complete it, but I doubt I'll return after two years to play through it again. Yes, most Nintendo games encourage exploration and the like, and I can imagine a slow-paced Pikmin being 'nice', but it works better with a time limit.
The structure of the first Pikmin isn't like any other Nintendo game I've played. There's still go to be the limited time within each day, my complaint is that there's seemingly no incentive to rush to the end, or return after completion. Pikmin really urged you on but you can take as long as you please in the second edition.
Of course there could be things Nintendo haven't told us about. Much like those uber-creatures, perhaps certain secret items can only be collected on certain days, maybe they are reset every time you restart the level. There are ways the same exhilerating experience could be done, just none that have been revealed.
We'll have to wait and see.
The structure of the first Pikmin isn't like any other Nintendo game I've played. There's still go to be the limited time within each day, my complaint is that there's seemingly no incentive to rush to the end, or return after completion. Pikmin really urged you on but you can take as long as you please in the second edition.
Of course there could be things Nintendo haven't told us about. Much like those uber-creatures, perhaps certain secret items can only be collected on certain days, maybe they are reset every time you restart the level. There are ways the same exhilerating experience could be done, just none that have been revealed.
We'll have to wait and see.
Spend a day just wondering around one of the beautifully crafted levels, just looking, discover what there is... finding new little areas with your Pikmin.
I've already played a frantic Pikmin game... now I want a slow one.
I've already played a frantic Pikmin game... now I want a slow one.
Miyamoto's games are ALWAYS about exploring. It was even his excuse for taking the platforming focus out of Metroid Prime.
The original Pikmin just warped into the rush game when the time limit was added in. Pikmin's not the sort of game you want tension in, it sort of stops you from anjoying it, rushing through the game rather than taking your time and enjoying yourself.
:-)
The original Pikmin just warped into the rush game when the time limit was added in. Pikmin's not the sort of game you want tension in, it sort of stops you from anjoying it, rushing through the game rather than taking your time and enjoying yourself.
:-)
But Pikmin isn't about slowly exploring areas, it's about frantically rushing about at the last second to get that all-important ship piece.
Unless ship parts are really hard to get and after each day they get reset (so you'd have to repeat a boss or a retrace your steps throguh a dangerous area) the same tense atmosphere would be lost. Sure, it would be good, but not classic. Nintendo created a truly genius concept and backed it up with a beautiful game, in terms of design, structure and play. Pikmin 2 will no doubt be good fun, but unless it finds some other way to induce tension into the game, I can't see it living to peoples expectations.
I'd rather the next two Pikmin games being short if they managed to better their prequels, but without the time limit I can't see that happening. A game like Mario wouldn't work with a time limit, but the way Pikmin plays is perfectly suited to being rushed.
Unless ship parts are really hard to get and after each day they get reset (so you'd have to repeat a boss or a retrace your steps throguh a dangerous area) the same tense atmosphere would be lost. Sure, it would be good, but not classic. Nintendo created a truly genius concept and backed it up with a beautiful game, in terms of design, structure and play. Pikmin 2 will no doubt be good fun, but unless it finds some other way to induce tension into the game, I can't see it living to peoples expectations.
I'd rather the next two Pikmin games being short if they managed to better their prequels, but without the time limit I can't see that happening. A game like Mario wouldn't work with a time limit, but the way Pikmin plays is perfectly suited to being rushed.
The creating of time generated pressure can exist in other forms though.
Pikmin would be a joy to play at leasure, sure the challenge is reduced but in that case Nintendo should make the enemies harder, the ship parts harder to find etc... meaning spending time getting used to the area and building a Pikmin army wouldn't make the game any easier.
Granted the time limit created pace but then this is a Nintendo game... Nintendo games are not about a quick blast of fun then another. Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin are the only efforts from Nintendo that have properly tried to do that.
Sunshine may have been shorther than 64 but the game was still very big. Sunshine for me was a fantastic game, the re-play factor came into effect with re-living and beating the times of my favourite mini-games... which I did till Eternal Darkness came out. Wind Waker again was a gorgeous game as was Prime, a lot of depth, you are never rushed and can simply learn to love the environment.
Pikmin like the above 3 titles also had purly wonderful levels, filled with depth and exploration, dangers and intrigue. Every new enemy, dark area etc... was approached with caution and i avoided some areas as I didn't have time to re-build the environment if disaster struck.
I'd love to lead myself and a band of Pikmin just to explore the land. Not worrying about collecting anything, just a little walk, see the enemies, the sights. Take in what I have to do and then perhaps the next day build a required army and the following day go on an expedition.
I couldn't do that with Pikmin 1. And the time limit is still there, just the daily one. And that rush of getting your Pikmin back in time and the time management element of what you can do in a day still exists.
The difficulty of the game shouldn't be dictated by one of Nintendo's poorer ideas of placing a time limit on you.
Dringo.
Pikmin would be a joy to play at leasure, sure the challenge is reduced but in that case Nintendo should make the enemies harder, the ship parts harder to find etc... meaning spending time getting used to the area and building a Pikmin army wouldn't make the game any easier.
Granted the time limit created pace but then this is a Nintendo game... Nintendo games are not about a quick blast of fun then another. Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin are the only efforts from Nintendo that have properly tried to do that.
Sunshine may have been shorther than 64 but the game was still very big. Sunshine for me was a fantastic game, the re-play factor came into effect with re-living and beating the times of my favourite mini-games... which I did till Eternal Darkness came out. Wind Waker again was a gorgeous game as was Prime, a lot of depth, you are never rushed and can simply learn to love the environment.
Pikmin like the above 3 titles also had purly wonderful levels, filled with depth and exploration, dangers and intrigue. Every new enemy, dark area etc... was approached with caution and i avoided some areas as I didn't have time to re-build the environment if disaster struck.
I'd love to lead myself and a band of Pikmin just to explore the land. Not worrying about collecting anything, just a little walk, see the enemies, the sights. Take in what I have to do and then perhaps the next day build a required army and the following day go on an expedition.
I couldn't do that with Pikmin 1. And the time limit is still there, just the daily one. And that rush of getting your Pikmin back in time and the time management element of what you can do in a day still exists.
The difficulty of the game shouldn't be dictated by one of Nintendo's poorer ideas of placing a time limit on you.
Dringo.
[URL]http://www.cubed-3.co.uk/modules/jbscreens//index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=3139[/URL]
Wouldn't it be nice if you could control them at some point in the game? Mmmm. I'm thinking they'll more likely be to trick you, though, plucking them out of the ground then getting attacked.
Even if it's not as good as the first, Pikmin 2 will rock. Some the new enemies look brilliant, and all of them seem to look very shiny.
Wouldn't it be nice if you could control them at some point in the game? Mmmm. I'm thinking they'll more likely be to trick you, though, plucking them out of the ground then getting attacked.
Even if it's not as good as the first, Pikmin 2 will rock. Some the new enemies look brilliant, and all of them seem to look very shiny.
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