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"Religion"

Recently, Religion has come up in a number of discussions and it would be good to discuss them. EVERYONE has a belief. This topic has some effect in a lot of lifes.

Rakuga wrote:
In some
> cases you can suggest theories but in others you cannot. That is
> what faith is all about.


I agree 100% with you.
And for the benefit of Ice Blaster, Rakuga and I are not tearing into each other, we are exchanging views trying to understand what the other person thinks on this subject.

Far from bullying, two people with opposing viewpoints getting together and swapping notions is one of the best ways to counter-act bullying.

We are having "a discussion".
I may not agree with Rakuga, he may not agree with me.
But we both respect each other's views and take that into account.

Very true. If bullies start abusing Christians and Jews etc.. we are as bad as Hitler and his persecution of the Jews. We live in a society where we should be able to accept each others beliefs and respect them.

Goatboy I understand where you are coming from. It's a difficult question to answer I know. It's a concept out of our understanding. We want to understand but can't. That is what religion is all about. Lots of things cannot be explained. In some cases you can suggest theories but in others you cannot. That is what faith is all about. You have to believe not understand for belief is more important.

I hope that wasn't directed at me kid.

If you read my posts, I haven't flamed anyone, suggested they're wrong or anything like that.

I have gone to great pains to ensure that I do not tell anyone that they are "wrong".

I only ask that the same courtesy is extended to me.

And you got bullied for being religious, I'm not really surprised. In todays 'youff culture' religion isn't 'cool' so if you are like Matt or Ant or cooldog or any other religious beliver, your gonna get pickerd on. It is waty out of order.

I hope that religious belivers who get bullied should not change their opinion on there religion just because of some low life thugs.

But that doesnt offer any answer to my question.
I'm not trolling for insults, but if someone says "Humanist viewpoint is wrong" (not that you did), then you have to be able to offer more than "In my opinion" to explain the existence and creation of god.

Einstein theorised that time and space are not seperate entities, but exist together, inexorably linked.
His theory is that time and space exist together, in the same continium.
Before the big bang, time did not exist and space did not exist.
There was nothing before the initial explosion, because time did not exist as a concept.

The universe started at that point, simply because it sprang into existence.

Many people that use pyschotropic substances experience a blur between time and space, and have the ability to merge the two and travel at will, using pure thought.

Now, I'm going to put a post up that will tackle what some may feel a serious and offensive subject:
Hallucinagenic Drugs and their benefits in understand this whole "time and space thing".

Rakuga wrote:
Other people will contradict me I'm sure. I keep saying,
> "Everything has a beginning". Many people will snigger
> saying "Well God must have a beginning then". Maybe this
> is true I don't know. Only my faith has answered that question. I
> question my religion a lot thinking, "What if God doesn't exist
> - I've wasted some of my life. I could have had premarital sex
> instead of following the will of God." However it is belief
> that drives me to answer this question with "God does
> exist". I have considered many of my own theories. Maybe God is
> part of a continuous loop. Where does a circle's circumference end
> and begin? Maybe the bang that caused the world to begin is the same
> that caused the world to end. Maybe there is a time when time is
> switched back to the beginning through an explosion of the universe.
> A sort of recycling of the world if you like. Or maybe God is a
> powerful being that exists all around us and has no beginning. Yes
> it is a tough question. I don't have the answers only the
> suggestions. I find belief is the answer. If you believe you
> understand. You do not ask questions and just live your life as you
> should.

God told me Goatboy was going to say that ;-)

Rakuga wrote:
Humanists don't believe in a God but believe in a
> Big Bang. This is what I don't understand. As I said before
> everything needs a creator.


So who created God?
If nothing could exist before the big bang, what existed before god?

If you believe that the universe could not have existed forever, in and of itself, then you also have to accept that god can also not be infinite.

"It has to have started somewhere" is the argument against humanist viewpoint.
Well, ok, what was before god then?

(This is NOT a flame, this is me being genuinely interested in the response from a believer)

I dont see why the universe could not have just been there, whilst God has always been there.
It's just a perception of time.
We think we live a long life, 70-80 years.
Compared to a tree, it's nothing, or a mountain.

Just because we think 8 billion years is a long time, doesn't make it so.

Everything has a beginning whether it be a book, a film, a computer or life. Everything has a creator - a book is created by it's author, a film by it's director and various other people, a computer by it's manufacturer and a life by it's parents. However there comes a point where there has to be the first beginning. A manufacturer, an author, a director and some parents all need to come from somewhere. What you get when you go back in time is infinity - you can't find a beginning. However you know there must be everything has one.

This is where God comes in. Many people don't believe in a God while many people do. As a Christian I am one who believes in a God. I believe he is our creator and he is with us at all time. I feel his presence all around me. I pray to him and miraculously my prayers come true. I believe in him. However also as a scientist who is doing A-levels in Chemistry and Physics I believe in a sort of Big Bang.

For those who don't know "The Big Bang" is a humanist’s point of view of how the universe was created. A giant supernova (the explosion of a star) released the planets and all the elements we have today (most came from hydrogen atoms which were fused together. Humanists don't believe in a God but believe in a Big Bang. This is what I don't understand. As I said before everything needs a creator. The big bang needed a creator otherwise it would cease to exist so in my opinion God was this creator. It doesn't matter how he made the world.

If you think that Adam and Eve story is a load of crap maybe it is. I believe in God yet I believe I have the right to interpret things in a different way to the scriptures. Lots of stuff in the bible I find hard to believe but I believe they have some symbolic meanings. Maybe when the bible was written the way God made the world was so complex and not understandable to us that it was written in a more simple form - could you imagine a Genesis which outlined nuclear fusion and how God did this?! No! :D However much of the new testament I believe. I believe in the healings of Jesus, as God must be all powerful because he created the world and the healings of Jesus illustrate his power.

Many people find a God hard to believe for several reasons. The main reason that comes to many people's mind is the suffering in the world. If God was all good and we praise him for being God why does he cause suffering. I have several responses to this as do other religious people. Some believe he is not responsible for suffering and that the devil is the reason for it. Although God is all powerful he has the devil working against him trying to destroy his creation. All religions have similar interpretations whether it be the oppositions fault or no fault of God a suffering we humans cause. This makes sense for murders and direct human suffering where we can think and do what we like including killing humans but it doesn't really account for sufferings such as earthquakes. For example the Indian earthquake, which killed thousands, was terrible... Why would God allow this? Some might say that he meant this to happen as by allowing this to happen he was giving people the chance to help others and help others we did with massive earthquake appeals. This helping of others helped us to be good people and maybe this is what God wants of us.

Other people will contradict me I'm sure. I keep saying, "Everything has a beginning". Many people will snigger saying "Well God must have a beginning then". Maybe this is true I don't know. Only my faith has answered that question. I question my religion a lot thinking, "What if God doesn't exist - I've wasted some of my life. I could have had premarital sex instead of following the will of God." However it is belief that drives me to answer this question with "God does exist". I have considered many of my own theories. Maybe God is part of a continuous loop. Where does a circle's circumference end and begin? Maybe the bang that caused the world to begin is the same that caused the world to end. Maybe there is a time when time is switched back to the beginning through an explosion of the universe. A sort of recycling of the world if you like. Or maybe God is a powerful being that exists all around us and has no beginning. Yes it is a tough question. I don't have the answers only the suggestions. I find belief is the answer. If you believe you understand. You do not ask questions and just live your life as you should.

I'm not the best Christian. I sin, I don't go to church and don't follow the teachings as brilliantly as I should. I like to call myself a "Home-Christian". I believe in God and pray to him, try to help others as best I can - basically the important things (I forget the things I see as insignificant and not important to God).

Religions not the boring geeky thing many people think it is. It doesn't make you "strange" running around shouting "praise the lord". God does exist. Just think about it. All you have to do is leave yourself open.

*Writing this I have had the most strange deja vu. I remember being 6 years old and typing something on the computer... I feel like I have been here before*

I'm not religious but to be honest it's not something I've thought about much until the last couple of years or so. It's not that I don't believe there is/are god/gods its just that I don't believe in forms of religion. i'll admit that outside of christianity I don't know much at all about other religions but christianity itself is something I find hard to believe because of how it presents itself. I don't want to get into some massive thread on here arguing about this because no ones arguments can change what I think and know !

Religion doesn't cause wars in my opinion, people do and religion is another jsut another excuse. At the end of the day if you're a country that wants more land e.t.c then you need a reason that can be presented to your own people. "we need to attack because we want land" is not a great statement to make. Islam is an example of a religion that's been twisted to suit various groups - true Islam preaches tolerance of all religions.

I am a christian-I've just been baptised.

Why do I believe in christianity?? Because I've seen the changes God can make in people's lives.

I used to be have no self confidence at all in doing anything new. Although I still struggle, I am a lot more confident in myself, and I don't worry about things such as homework nearly as much.

I have seen people fall over just from the power of god. My legs nearly crumbled beneath me in the baptism pool. I once stood with my hands held out while a man called for God's presence. After a couple of minutes, my hands were tingling, and I could defintely feel God's presence in the room.

I don't mind if you disagree with me, or believe in something different (ask Shocktrooper or Grandprix,) but that is what I think, and I plan to base my life around Jesus' teachings.

Thanks for reading, Ant.