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Sticking with the prison issue can I present another issue?
I accidentally, but stupidly, assisted in the burning down of a barn with a compensation claim reaching £200,000. I got 200 hours community service and a £2000 compensation payment.
During this incident my solicitor and PC Dave Lofting of the Huntingdon Police said to me "If it was a shed you wouldn't be in trouble".
So basically, I am a criminal because it was a lot of money I accidentally destroyed, I am not a criminal if the money was low??? But the crime is exactly the same. If I had burnt down something worth little I am not a reckless arsonist but if it is worth a lot I am???
How flawed is this.
During my community service I have met a chap named Steve. He is a very very nice guy, he helped me build a ramp (actually I helped him but lets not bicker). His wife left him and threw him out the house. 2 of his children want to live with him so that has made him feel better. The sad thing is he hasn't a home. He contacted the council and they are still, 3 months after he was kicked out, looking for a place to live. (he has a very small income).
Anyway the council understood that he was living in his car. One day after a mates birthday he comes back to his car after 4-5 drinks. He falls asleep only to be awoken by a knock at the window. He is breathalised and is given 100 hours community service for being "drunk in charge of a vehicle". The council wrote a letter explaining to the court that it was his home. They didn't care.
Now from both of these cases you could say neither me, nor steve are criminals. I was an idiot but hardly deserving of the label "criminal". Steve certainly isn't.
But then... lets take this example further. Much further.
One night a man is coming home from a late bussiness meeting. Very very late. Missing his family he tries to get back before his wife and kids go to sleep. He isn't speeding, but he is tired, normally he'd have stopped by now but he is but a few miles from home. He may as well continue.
But disaster strikes, he falls asleep. He drives off the road and onto a railway line. He is hit by a train. He survives. But 50 passangers do not. The man, when he comes around is devestated. He has killed so many people, he feels physically sick and can't begin to comprehend the damage he has done. Of course the judge has no choice but to send him to prison. A hardworking human being with a good family who has never been in trouble before goes to prison for a lengthy period of time.
The families of course believe it isn't enough. The judge, to some varying agree knows, that the man he sent to prison is no criminal. But a man who made a terrible mistake.
Looking at that incident and maybe some of you can relate to it. I have been in the car with many people who are driving home tired. From concerts or one day music festivals mainly. Worn out and exhausted my girlfriend drove 100's of miles home and nearly fell asleep. It could have been her, it could have been me... it could have been you.
Of course similar stories are found all the time involving drunk drivers.
What defines a criminal exactly?
I accidentally, but stupidly, assisted in the burning down of a barn with a compensation claim reaching £200,000. I got 200 hours community service and a £2000 compensation payment.
During this incident my solicitor and PC Dave Lofting of the Huntingdon Police said to me "If it was a shed you wouldn't be in trouble".
So basically, I am a criminal because it was a lot of money I accidentally destroyed, I am not a criminal if the money was low??? But the crime is exactly the same. If I had burnt down something worth little I am not a reckless arsonist but if it is worth a lot I am???
How flawed is this.
During my community service I have met a chap named Steve. He is a very very nice guy, he helped me build a ramp (actually I helped him but lets not bicker). His wife left him and threw him out the house. 2 of his children want to live with him so that has made him feel better. The sad thing is he hasn't a home. He contacted the council and they are still, 3 months after he was kicked out, looking for a place to live. (he has a very small income).
Anyway the council understood that he was living in his car. One day after a mates birthday he comes back to his car after 4-5 drinks. He falls asleep only to be awoken by a knock at the window. He is breathalised and is given 100 hours community service for being "drunk in charge of a vehicle". The council wrote a letter explaining to the court that it was his home. They didn't care.
Now from both of these cases you could say neither me, nor steve are criminals. I was an idiot but hardly deserving of the label "criminal". Steve certainly isn't.
But then... lets take this example further. Much further.
One night a man is coming home from a late bussiness meeting. Very very late. Missing his family he tries to get back before his wife and kids go to sleep. He isn't speeding, but he is tired, normally he'd have stopped by now but he is but a few miles from home. He may as well continue.
But disaster strikes, he falls asleep. He drives off the road and onto a railway line. He is hit by a train. He survives. But 50 passangers do not. The man, when he comes around is devestated. He has killed so many people, he feels physically sick and can't begin to comprehend the damage he has done. Of course the judge has no choice but to send him to prison. A hardworking human being with a good family who has never been in trouble before goes to prison for a lengthy period of time.
The families of course believe it isn't enough. The judge, to some varying agree knows, that the man he sent to prison is no criminal. But a man who made a terrible mistake.
Looking at that incident and maybe some of you can relate to it. I have been in the car with many people who are driving home tired. From concerts or one day music festivals mainly. Worn out and exhausted my girlfriend drove 100's of miles home and nearly fell asleep. It could have been her, it could have been me... it could have been you.
Of course similar stories are found all the time involving drunk drivers.
What defines a criminal exactly?
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What happened to Steve (in the original post) is just ridiculous. Where was the common sense!
Surely a criminal is someone who either intentionally commits a crime, or, unintentionally commits a crime but is proved to have been negligent or reckless in their actions...
Surely a criminal is someone who either intentionally commits a crime, or, unintentionally commits a crime but is proved to have been negligent or reckless in their actions...
Dringo, if you have to drive home tired, you stop, take breaks, get out of the car and walk around, have some coffee, have five minutes sleep each time you stop etc. There's absolutely no need to drive hundreds of miles in one go.
gamesfreak wrote:
> Falling asleep at the wheel is irresponsible, regardless if he wanted
> "to see his family before they went to bed", you should
> only drive if you are fully aware and alert.
I'm with gamesfreak on this one, falling asleep a the wheel ranks up there with drink driving for me. An old school friend of mine lost her mother when we were young because someone fell asleep while driving and their car went of the road and killed her as she was out walking her dog.
Feel a bit sorry for the guy living in his car getting done for being drunk behind the wheel.
> Falling asleep at the wheel is irresponsible, regardless if he wanted
> "to see his family before they went to bed", you should
> only drive if you are fully aware and alert.
I'm with gamesfreak on this one, falling asleep a the wheel ranks up there with drink driving for me. An old school friend of mine lost her mother when we were young because someone fell asleep while driving and their car went of the road and killed her as she was out walking her dog.
Feel a bit sorry for the guy living in his car getting done for being drunk behind the wheel.
Is it a crime if you rob someone's garden and don't get caught? And is it more of a crime to do the same and get caught?
Not that I have, but it's a similar comparison i think to Dringo's original post.
Not that I have, but it's a similar comparison i think to Dringo's original post.
Dringo wrote:
> You are one of those pompous people who has never done anything of
> the sort then.
Woah a little heavy on the return there, aye, Dringo?
> You are one of those pompous people who has never done anything of
> the sort then.
Woah a little heavy on the return there, aye, Dringo?
Whitestripes DS wrote:
> Dringo wrote:
>
> You are one of those pompous people who has never done anything of
> the sort then.
>
> Well that's a little uncalled for.
>
Aye, considering Dringo was like:
"Oh noes im gonna get bummed and bleed to death" a few months back.
> Dringo wrote:
>
> You are one of those pompous people who has never done anything of
> the sort then.
>
> Well that's a little uncalled for.
>
Aye, considering Dringo was like:
"Oh noes im gonna get bummed and bleed to death" a few months back.
Dringo, you got burnt by the law - deal with it.
Dringo wrote:
> You are one of those pompous people who has never done anything of
> the sort then.
Well that's a little uncalled for.
There are plenty of people who are clever enough to not drive when they're falling asleep or handle electronics when wet, just because you may have messed up it doesn't give you cause to insult people who were wiser.
I don't know anyone who has done anything like that, and only one of them could possibly be described as pompous.
> You are one of those pompous people who has never done anything of
> the sort then.
Well that's a little uncalled for.
There are plenty of people who are clever enough to not drive when they're falling asleep or handle electronics when wet, just because you may have messed up it doesn't give you cause to insult people who were wiser.
I don't know anyone who has done anything like that, and only one of them could possibly be described as pompous.
Dringo wrote:
>> What defines a criminal exactly?
Anyone not called Belldandy.
>> What defines a criminal exactly?
Anyone not called Belldandy.
Cycloon wrote:
> How the hell would he survive getting hit by a train?! ^^
I dunno but he did.
It is a true story... sorta... numbers were made up.
> How the hell would he survive getting hit by a train?! ^^
I dunno but he did.
It is a true story... sorta... numbers were made up.
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