Viewing Thread:
"How Far Is Too Far?"

I live in a reasonably unpleasant area. By which I mean the people are lowlives.

There are a lot of students, most of whom are fine.
There are decent families, same.
And decent other people.

And there are lowlives. I'm going to try to keep clear of labels like chavs, because not all the ash-holes are chavs (see the 'most of whom are fine', above), and not all the 'chavs' (by my definition at least) are ash-holes.
I've met a few who've seemed nice enough. And certainly plenty who don't go out of their way to be obnoxious to strangers.

But then there are the lowlives.
People who pick fights with random people on a night out, people who are offensive to strangers. People who ask for money in the street (not even homeless people, though I'm sure you all know the kind I mean) then hassle you when you refuse. Random kids who throw stones at passers-by.

I have no idea how far you can morally legitimately go in response to lowlife provocation,
or for that matter how far you should go.

But I'm pretty sick of soaking up bull***t from strangers.




So, general comments on how you personally would deal with these kinds of people please.



And a questionaire - What do you do when:


- You're walking alone at night, a stranger is highly offensive to you

- Same, but you're with your girlfriend


- Walking alone at night, someone acts in a threatening / intimidating manner towards you
i) If you think you could take him
ii) And if you couldn't

- Same, but you're with your girlfriend
i) Could take him
ii) Couldn't


- A couple of random kids throw stones at you as you're walking somewhere
i)You're alone
ii)You're with mates
iii)You're with girlfriend


- Someone stops you in the street and asks for a small amount of money, and is offensive to you if/when you refuse

- Same, but they ask to use your mobile



Some of the above scenarios have happened to me in the last couple of months, at keast one of each 'type', and I really don't know how you should deal with it, or how far you can reasonably go to protect your dignity

Chippxero wrote:
> Except in the if the kidds were throwing stones at me and i was with
> a girl i would make sure i am on the side they are throwing them a,
> and probably just walk a bit faster with her.

I'm pleased to see chivalry isn't dead, i should have said the same thing.

Questionaire answers = flocks post i'd probably do the same.

Except in the if the kidds were throwing stones at me and i was with a girl i would make sure i am on the side they are throwing them at, and probably just walk a bit faster with her.

The only one of these that i have experienced just randomly no the street is the guy asking for small change, i just said i have no change on me (which is normally true) and walked off, he then swore at me and a yelled back have a nice day, he laught and walke off.

Mumbai Duck wrote:
> Flock wrote:
> You know how it works, mental insecurity leads people to find it
> physically.
>
>
> True, but we all have our breaking points.
> Don't we?

Definitely but it's the difference between breaking because of ego and having a just reason.
But like you said most people have a breaking point

Flock wrote:
> You know how it works, mental insecurity leads people to find it
> physically.


True, but we all have our breaking points.
Don't we?

Mumbai Duck wrote:
> Heh, I know. I used to be very anti-violence.

I used to have a temper until i crushed it, i'm pretty anti-violence now.

> But perhaps sometimes a man has to stand up and fight?

It is what we do, i think most of us have a bit of Cro-Magnon man in us and it's in our nature. I think sometimes you have to fight for things, just do it for the right reasons and not out of ego.

> Or maybe that's just retarded bilge spouted by people trying to
> justify their own inability to take the ego-battering?

I think theyre more prone to fighting if theyre not mentally strong enough to take it.
You know how it works, mental insecurity leads people to find it physically.

Now that is a paradox

Heh, I know. I used to be very anti-violence.

But perhaps sometimes a man has to stand up and fight?

Or maybe that's just retarded bilge spouted by people trying to justify their own inability to take the ego-battering?

There's no perfect answer so you just have to decide what you want to walk away with.
Personally, if you can walk away it's probably best if your ego can take the battering instead of your face.
Having said that bruises fade, humiliation tends to stick around.
You've got me questioning my own choices now!

D'oh - useful buddhist principle that I meant to remember:

Someone hits you with a stick, afterwards, you wouldn't be mad at the stick - that'd be retarded.
You can view the person in the same way as the stick - they're just acting on the factors that shape their personality - their genes, upbringing, social influences ec, things that shape the person which the parson doesn't control.

And the best part is that I can genuinely accept the reasoning. Ultimately, it's just a bunch of stuff that happens. Free will doesn't compromise the theory, because that free will is shaped by the factors.

If I can avoid being retarded enough to forget this principle again, I can dissociate myself from any insult the person throws at me, and act to bring about the best possible resolution - letting it go and having nothing more to do with them.


With that in mind:

Do you do anything about the stone throwing kid?
If you try to confront him you get a face full of stones
If you walk away you get a back full of stones
How do you stop him/them?

If you're with your girlfriend, is she going to think less of you for just 'soaking up' crap from some to**er?
And running like a pansy, with g/f in tow, just doesn't seem dignified. Would she look at you the same way afterwards?



Would the police really care? Maybe they would - you can asbo the b*****ds now. Although their prospects of catching them may be slim, so the report could be pretty ineffectual...

Hmm, laughing sounds good.

In a lot of situations the indignity of swallowing their crap is bigger than any physical threat.
If you can laugh it off, you completely disempower it.

But it's not really funny.

Joking back with them.. similar effect, but to be honest if I tried to act like I didn't care it'd still be a lie.
That sort of treatment is a pretty big insult, and if you genuinely feel insulted, 'laughing it off' doesn't salvage you any self respct.

Then again, what can save you any self respect? Even if you insult them better, or wind up in a fight and win, it doesn't undo the insult.


Hypothetically, if you wanted to 'get back' at them, but didn't feel initiating violence was acceptable, you could dog them with insults, in order to put them in a position where they'd either let it go and back down, or initiate violence themselves.
Then you've got carte blanch to defend yourself.

But obviously allowing yourself to get drawn into that situation by any stranger who decides to take a cheap shot at you is pretty weak.
Plus I don't want to have to fight anyone, verball or physically. I think that should be the main point. Although sometimes the crap gets my back up to the stage where it isn't.
And there's always the risk you get yourself battered.

So really, the situations that aren't seriously threatening, unless you can genuinely laugh it off or be flippant about it, you're in a no-win position.
Hmm, I need to have a think about this, and work out whether I can honestly not care about people trying to treat me like that.