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Everybody has down-days yes. Down-years though? I know Beckham had an "ok" game last night, but lets face it, it was against Azerbaijan. Do you think he should be dropped from the England first-team and stripped of the captaincy?
Beckham has done jack for England (and I guess to an extent his club team) since "the" qualifying game against Greece.
I admire him for the way he flipped being a public hate figure around to being the most loved footballer in the country, from being a petulant child on the pitch to being a man and leading by example. However, saying that Beckham still deserves to be in the side at this moment in time just because of his past achievements is poppycock.
Yes, David Beckham does have a killer cross on him. Or at least he did.
Yes, David Beckham can whip in a brilliant dead-ball. Or at least he could.
Why was Beckham excelling in these areas? Practice. What happens when you get less practice? You lose your talent (or it diminishes at least).
When Beckham moved to Real Madrid that was the start of the end of his brilliance. He was switched into the centre or midfield because of the range of his passing. Fair enough. You tell me though, how often would you see a central midfielder getting to the final third of the field and whipping in a killer cross for a team-mate arriving in the box?
Beckham was known for his great engine too, the fact that he gave his all for England, leading by example, chasing balls down and getting in the thick of the action. Even players with limited skill (take Kevin Kilbane at Everton for example) who play in this kind of way are revered by the fans because they sense the importance of a win and the show of determination makes people happy. On far too few occasions though Beckham has drifted through a game, relying on his past achievements and knowing that no matter how badly he plays he will still start the next international match. Is it because he is irreplaceable? Is it because we don't have anyone up to his standard to play on the right wing? Is it because everyone looks at Beckham when they're on the pitch and thinks "he's showing me how I should be playing"? OR is it because Beckham is the captain, the most famous English footballer, the "nice guy", the money-maker andthe face of English Football all over the world?
How many times have you seen asians walking to an England game wearing England shirts bearing the Beckham name? Now flip that and ask how many England fans are likely to get "Beckham" on the back of their shirts as opposed to the likes of Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen... Terry?
If any one of the first four in htat list were injured, do you think they would be missed as much as Beckham? I know I certainly do.
Beckham living on his past glories is like somebody saying that Manchester United should bring back George Best because once.. back in the day, he was a superstar. Its like somebody paying 25m for Thuram, who is clearly not the player he once was.
Beckham has a good passing range, yes this is true.
Does he have a good eye for goal? His record suggests no.
Can he tackle well? See for yourself and you will realise its not one of his strong points.
Can he head a ball?
Does he have electric pace to take him past a full-back?
Does he have the strength and power to rely on when he's too tired to use his "pace"?
Can he dribble through 2 players to deliver a pass to a team-mate or a shot on goal?
The fact remains that if we started playing Michael Owen or Shaun Wright-Phillips or Frank Lampard or (Goodness help me) Keiron Dyer on the wing they would probably do as good a job as Beckham right now. Beckham has no competition for his place as its cemented. We've only just recently seen him being substituted during games - before say the last 4 games he was probably guaranteed to finish the 90mins whereas someone like Rooney I don't think has managed to complete one 90-minute match for England yet.
Familiarity breeds contempt they say, but I would still rather have Gary Neville as England right-back because he does his job perfectly and the greatest compliment you can say is that you hardly ever notice him when he's playing.
Beckham however, is another matter altogether.
T
Beckham has done jack for England (and I guess to an extent his club team) since "the" qualifying game against Greece.
I admire him for the way he flipped being a public hate figure around to being the most loved footballer in the country, from being a petulant child on the pitch to being a man and leading by example. However, saying that Beckham still deserves to be in the side at this moment in time just because of his past achievements is poppycock.
Yes, David Beckham does have a killer cross on him. Or at least he did.
Yes, David Beckham can whip in a brilliant dead-ball. Or at least he could.
Why was Beckham excelling in these areas? Practice. What happens when you get less practice? You lose your talent (or it diminishes at least).
When Beckham moved to Real Madrid that was the start of the end of his brilliance. He was switched into the centre or midfield because of the range of his passing. Fair enough. You tell me though, how often would you see a central midfielder getting to the final third of the field and whipping in a killer cross for a team-mate arriving in the box?
Beckham was known for his great engine too, the fact that he gave his all for England, leading by example, chasing balls down and getting in the thick of the action. Even players with limited skill (take Kevin Kilbane at Everton for example) who play in this kind of way are revered by the fans because they sense the importance of a win and the show of determination makes people happy. On far too few occasions though Beckham has drifted through a game, relying on his past achievements and knowing that no matter how badly he plays he will still start the next international match. Is it because he is irreplaceable? Is it because we don't have anyone up to his standard to play on the right wing? Is it because everyone looks at Beckham when they're on the pitch and thinks "he's showing me how I should be playing"? OR is it because Beckham is the captain, the most famous English footballer, the "nice guy", the money-maker andthe face of English Football all over the world?
How many times have you seen asians walking to an England game wearing England shirts bearing the Beckham name? Now flip that and ask how many England fans are likely to get "Beckham" on the back of their shirts as opposed to the likes of Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen... Terry?
If any one of the first four in htat list were injured, do you think they would be missed as much as Beckham? I know I certainly do.
Beckham living on his past glories is like somebody saying that Manchester United should bring back George Best because once.. back in the day, he was a superstar. Its like somebody paying 25m for Thuram, who is clearly not the player he once was.
Beckham has a good passing range, yes this is true.
Does he have a good eye for goal? His record suggests no.
Can he tackle well? See for yourself and you will realise its not one of his strong points.
Can he head a ball?
Does he have electric pace to take him past a full-back?
Does he have the strength and power to rely on when he's too tired to use his "pace"?
Can he dribble through 2 players to deliver a pass to a team-mate or a shot on goal?
The fact remains that if we started playing Michael Owen or Shaun Wright-Phillips or Frank Lampard or (Goodness help me) Keiron Dyer on the wing they would probably do as good a job as Beckham right now. Beckham has no competition for his place as its cemented. We've only just recently seen him being substituted during games - before say the last 4 games he was probably guaranteed to finish the 90mins whereas someone like Rooney I don't think has managed to complete one 90-minute match for England yet.
Familiarity breeds contempt they say, but I would still rather have Gary Neville as England right-back because he does his job perfectly and the greatest compliment you can say is that you hardly ever notice him when he's playing.
Beckham however, is another matter altogether.
T
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hesky is bad
Heskey isn't a bad player. He gets bad publicity because he doesn't score and he doesn't often, but he does set people up, so thats a plus.
Stryke wrote:
> tken wrote:
> >So you see, Rooney and Heskey do have a lot in common really.
>
> --
>
> My god, you're right. That must be why they're different colours, so
> we don't confuse them. Like fuse wires.
>
> Heskey is dire. Any Liverpool fan will tell you that.
I'm a Liverpool fan, and I think Heskey rocks. :D
> tken wrote:
> >So you see, Rooney and Heskey do have a lot in common really.
>
> --
>
> My god, you're right. That must be why they're different colours, so
> we don't confuse them. Like fuse wires.
>
> Heskey is dire. Any Liverpool fan will tell you that.
I'm a Liverpool fan, and I think Heskey rocks. :D
I think Beckham is still a good player , not as good as he used to be but is still a worthy member of the team. Owen is the player we need to concentrate on. Missing the open goal against Azerbaijan (if thats how it's spelt). Owen lacks confidence unlike when we beat Germany 5-1 and he was clearly the team leader. Maybe our current team isn't playing as a team?
I'm discusted to have Downing on our squad. THIS IS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL!!! Here are some of Brazil, the current World Champions best players: Ronaldo, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Adriano, Dida, Edilson,Luizo, gilberto silva...I could go on.
Then you compare them to Paul Robinson,A.Cole, Frank Lampard, Joe Cole,Beckham and Owen. I only hope to God that we will play well during the 2006 World Cup because this team doesn't look up to it...
I'm discusted to have Downing on our squad. THIS IS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL!!! Here are some of Brazil, the current World Champions best players: Ronaldo, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Adriano, Dida, Edilson,Luizo, gilberto silva...I could go on.
Then you compare them to Paul Robinson,A.Cole, Frank Lampard, Joe Cole,Beckham and Owen. I only hope to God that we will play well during the 2006 World Cup because this team doesn't look up to it...
tken wrote:
>> So you see, Rooney and Heskey do have a lot in common really.
--
My god, you're right. That must be why they're different colours, so we don't confuse them. Like fuse wires.
Heskey is dire. Any Liverpool fan will tell you that.
>> So you see, Rooney and Heskey do have a lot in common really.
--
My god, you're right. That must be why they're different colours, so we don't confuse them. Like fuse wires.
Heskey is dire. Any Liverpool fan will tell you that.
Cong_Man wrote:
> Heskey does have talent, not in the sense you mean, but his talent is
> being big strong and thriving on crosses and set pieces. How many
> crosses/set-pieces did Owen get on the end of???
My point wasn't that Owen would be getting on the end of crosses. He does in fact have a decent heading ability but because of his height he can't always utilise it.
> What presence? Rooney's role is linking midfield and attack.
> Therefore he was never in the positions to use his supposed physical
> presence.
>
> Hesky and Rooney are nothing alike. Anyone can see that.
Name me some of Rooney's chief attributes. Strong? Yes. Ability to hold up ball? Check. Decent in the air? Check. Can he work the channels? Check. Can he hold off a challenge and link up the play? Check.
Now lets look at Emile, shall we?
Strong? Check. Ability to hold up ball? Check. Decent in the air? Check. Can he work the channels? Check. Can he hold off a challenge and link up the play? Check.
How right you are... *cue sarcastic rolling of the eyes*
So you see, Rooney and Heskey do have a lot in common really. The difference between then being skill on the ball and ability to change a game. Rooney has these in abundance. As for Heskey... well, he's not in the team at the moment so I guess that tells its own story.
If having two big target men up front is the way forward, then why do we see so many big-strong-man with a small-man partnerships in football? Niall Quinn and Kevin Phillips for example, Sheringham and Shearer is another. Its oroven that if you have different qualities in your strikers then you will have a better chance of having a breakthrough because you have a diversity of options. You take Owen out of the equation and you don't have as good a chance of scoring when playing through to feet, since both strikers (Rooney and Emile Heskey) are in effect being used as target men to break through the defense using (and I know I'm assuming here) long-ball route 1 tactics.
T
> Heskey does have talent, not in the sense you mean, but his talent is
> being big strong and thriving on crosses and set pieces. How many
> crosses/set-pieces did Owen get on the end of???
My point wasn't that Owen would be getting on the end of crosses. He does in fact have a decent heading ability but because of his height he can't always utilise it.
> What presence? Rooney's role is linking midfield and attack.
> Therefore he was never in the positions to use his supposed physical
> presence.
>
> Hesky and Rooney are nothing alike. Anyone can see that.
Name me some of Rooney's chief attributes. Strong? Yes. Ability to hold up ball? Check. Decent in the air? Check. Can he work the channels? Check. Can he hold off a challenge and link up the play? Check.
Now lets look at Emile, shall we?
Strong? Check. Ability to hold up ball? Check. Decent in the air? Check. Can he work the channels? Check. Can he hold off a challenge and link up the play? Check.
How right you are... *cue sarcastic rolling of the eyes*
So you see, Rooney and Heskey do have a lot in common really. The difference between then being skill on the ball and ability to change a game. Rooney has these in abundance. As for Heskey... well, he's not in the team at the moment so I guess that tells its own story.
If having two big target men up front is the way forward, then why do we see so many big-strong-man with a small-man partnerships in football? Niall Quinn and Kevin Phillips for example, Sheringham and Shearer is another. Its oroven that if you have different qualities in your strikers then you will have a better chance of having a breakthrough because you have a diversity of options. You take Owen out of the equation and you don't have as good a chance of scoring when playing through to feet, since both strikers (Rooney and Emile Heskey) are in effect being used as target men to break through the defense using (and I know I'm assuming here) long-ball route 1 tactics.
T
If Beckham is dropped Stevie is next captain.
If Sven makes it Owen I will weep.
If Sven makes it Owen I will weep.
Beckham's career ended when he joined Real Madrid. He MIGHT still be able to get back to the way he was but I doubt he'll bother.
*Highly Excitable* wrote:
> JFH wrote:
> if Owen had been on better form...
>
> Any form at all would have been appreciated...
Just wait until Owen scores a hat-trick in next year's World Cup, when it REALLY counts.
Then you'll all jump on the bandwagon again.
> JFH wrote:
> if Owen had been on better form...
>
> Any form at all would have been appreciated...
Just wait until Owen scores a hat-trick in next year's World Cup, when it REALLY counts.
Then you'll all jump on the bandwagon again.
I shouldn't have laughed at that. But it was funny.
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