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I've been assigned a project by a rich, but nice, old lady.
Basically, it's a simple information site on holiday houses in a certain area. From my notes, I've come up with:
The website should have a front page that gives you all the basic information to know what the point of the website is - to show off and allow you to make booking enquirys about holiday houses offered in the area. Should make it obvious which area these houses are for. NOT a splash page.
It should include a page dedicated to what the holiday homes look like, how they are laid out, how many rooms they have. I will need to take my own photos.
It should also include a page showing what the immediete area is like - close to the beach, quiet location, shops and clubhouses nearby.
There should be a page showing interesting features of the entirety of the area - activitys and things to do, places to visit - also, the location in Britain placed by a simple map that gives the precise location without naming every single town in the area - should be able to be recognised as part of Britain.
There also needs to be a pricing and contact page - this will include a table of prices for different periods during the year, and a form for submitting inquirys about booking. These forms should allow instant auto-replies to show the user the email has been received. Also - other contact details, such as phone numbers and addresses, should be available, maybe as part of a 'header' that appears on each page.
I will need to supply my own photos, and create my own artwork. I will also need to design a logo for the holiday company.
Most importantly, it should be well laid out, look impressive enough without being over the top (the houses are two star), and be easy to navigate and use.
It's not a huge project, but it's big enough for someone like me who doesn't exactly do this sort of thing for a living, which brings me to my actual point of all this...
How much do I charge? I really have no idea whatsoever. I don't want to over-charge her, and equally I don't want to be underpaid. What sort of pricing would you suggest I charge for doing this?
Thanks for any replies.
Basically, it's a simple information site on holiday houses in a certain area. From my notes, I've come up with:
The website should have a front page that gives you all the basic information to know what the point of the website is - to show off and allow you to make booking enquirys about holiday houses offered in the area. Should make it obvious which area these houses are for. NOT a splash page.
It should include a page dedicated to what the holiday homes look like, how they are laid out, how many rooms they have. I will need to take my own photos.
It should also include a page showing what the immediete area is like - close to the beach, quiet location, shops and clubhouses nearby.
There should be a page showing interesting features of the entirety of the area - activitys and things to do, places to visit - also, the location in Britain placed by a simple map that gives the precise location without naming every single town in the area - should be able to be recognised as part of Britain.
There also needs to be a pricing and contact page - this will include a table of prices for different periods during the year, and a form for submitting inquirys about booking. These forms should allow instant auto-replies to show the user the email has been received. Also - other contact details, such as phone numbers and addresses, should be available, maybe as part of a 'header' that appears on each page.
I will need to supply my own photos, and create my own artwork. I will also need to design a logo for the holiday company.
Most importantly, it should be well laid out, look impressive enough without being over the top (the houses are two star), and be easy to navigate and use.
It's not a huge project, but it's big enough for someone like me who doesn't exactly do this sort of thing for a living, which brings me to my actual point of all this...
How much do I charge? I really have no idea whatsoever. I don't want to over-charge her, and equally I don't want to be underpaid. What sort of pricing would you suggest I charge for doing this?
Thanks for any replies.
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Brio wrote:
> Tyla, £22k sounds about right for someone starting out.
> Calculting cost based on pre-tax figures skews it somewhat - I'd
> assume as this is a bit of a one off for a friend there won't be any
> tax paid on income, so he can easily charge less than that and still
> get the same cash-in-hand at the end of the day, so your figures of
> 12.80 an hour would be somewhat high.
Ah, forgot the "cash in hand" bit as I have to declare my earning so factor in the additional cost of this to balacne my taxes.
The £22k is the average for a junior designer/coder in the south of England (pre tax/ni), but if you comapre that to a McDonalds employee who makes £18k pa basic, it seems a bit of a joke with the level of skill required for site work.
Looking at the breif:
Front Page
Holiday Homes page
Local Area page
Things to do/Local interests section (looks like it would encompass more than a single page)
Pricing page
Contact page
Then you have
Creation of art work
Taking, resizing and editing of photos
General design
coding
Sripting for form/replies
Standards/usability factoring
On a basic £25/page = £175 min
Artwork/design = £200 (1 - 2 days work with revisions)
Photography/release of copyright to client = £250 (days work min)
Scripting (php etc) = £50 (2 hours work)
= £675
Then there's the question of support/updates costs after project, if any?
Hosting? (£30pa)
URL (£15pa)
= £720
Allowing for travel costs for taking photos etc (£50)
= £770
Costs - General (power, bandwidth)(£20)
= £790
This is based on no revisions or major changes and that everything is agreed straight off.
Being conservative as it's Dar's forst job, sweet old lady factor, possibility of future work and the inclusion of a credit on the site..
I'd put the total cost in at:
£750
Timescale of 2-3 weeks (10-15 days)= (£75 - £50/day) = (£10 - £7.50ph)
Then change ya name to "Cutmeownthroat Dibbler"
> Tyla, £22k sounds about right for someone starting out.
> Calculting cost based on pre-tax figures skews it somewhat - I'd
> assume as this is a bit of a one off for a friend there won't be any
> tax paid on income, so he can easily charge less than that and still
> get the same cash-in-hand at the end of the day, so your figures of
> 12.80 an hour would be somewhat high.
Ah, forgot the "cash in hand" bit as I have to declare my earning so factor in the additional cost of this to balacne my taxes.
The £22k is the average for a junior designer/coder in the south of England (pre tax/ni), but if you comapre that to a McDonalds employee who makes £18k pa basic, it seems a bit of a joke with the level of skill required for site work.
Looking at the breif:
Front Page
Holiday Homes page
Local Area page
Things to do/Local interests section (looks like it would encompass more than a single page)
Pricing page
Contact page
Then you have
Creation of art work
Taking, resizing and editing of photos
General design
coding
Sripting for form/replies
Standards/usability factoring
On a basic £25/page = £175 min
Artwork/design = £200 (1 - 2 days work with revisions)
Photography/release of copyright to client = £250 (days work min)
Scripting (php etc) = £50 (2 hours work)
= £675
Then there's the question of support/updates costs after project, if any?
Hosting? (£30pa)
URL (£15pa)
= £720
Allowing for travel costs for taking photos etc (£50)
= £770
Costs - General (power, bandwidth)(£20)
= £790
This is based on no revisions or major changes and that everything is agreed straight off.
Being conservative as it's Dar's forst job, sweet old lady factor, possibility of future work and the inclusion of a credit on the site..
I'd put the total cost in at:
£750
Timescale of 2-3 weeks (10-15 days)= (£75 - £50/day) = (£10 - £7.50ph)
Then change ya name to "Cutmeownthroat Dibbler"
The site sounds to me like a few simple static pages, dropped into a nice layout, with a logo and half a dozen photos. Nothing really complex there.
For a hobby/bit of spare cash/done for a friend site, I'd say about 400-500 quid, making you about 100 a day. It could easily be done within a week, although the time will probably be more spread out than a simple Monday to Friday as you'll have a little to-ing and fro-ing between you and them - them supplying content for the pages and tweaking it etc.
They don't sound like they really expect *that* much, basically a simple online brochue style site, so a higher price wouldn't go down well. You'll end up charging them for something they don't want which isn't really fair, or worthwhile.
Tyla, £22k sounds about right for someone starting out. Calculting cost based on pre-tax figures skews it somewhat - I'd assume as this is a bit of a one off for a friend there won't be any tax paid on income, so he can easily charge less than that and still get the same cash-in-hand at the end of the day, so your figures of 12.80 an hour would be somewhat high.
For a hobby/bit of spare cash/done for a friend site, I'd say about 400-500 quid, making you about 100 a day. It could easily be done within a week, although the time will probably be more spread out than a simple Monday to Friday as you'll have a little to-ing and fro-ing between you and them - them supplying content for the pages and tweaking it etc.
They don't sound like they really expect *that* much, basically a simple online brochue style site, so a higher price wouldn't go down well. You'll end up charging them for something they don't want which isn't really fair, or worthwhile.
Tyla, £22k sounds about right for someone starting out. Calculting cost based on pre-tax figures skews it somewhat - I'd assume as this is a bit of a one off for a friend there won't be any tax paid on income, so he can easily charge less than that and still get the same cash-in-hand at the end of the day, so your figures of 12.80 an hour would be somewhat high.
gamesfreak wrote:
> But imagine this, your mothers friend is starting up a business and
> she reccomends her son to build the website.
>
> How much do you charge in that situation?
>
> I suppose it all comes down to being proffesional and what not, but
> asking for £1k+ is pretty alien to some people
>
> "Hi there I'd like a website please"
> - "Yeah sure, thats erm, heh, well......£1000 please, I'll
> have it done in 7 days!"
> "Er, I'll get back to you on that one"
That's where joe bloggs and his dodgy copy of Frontpage steps in @ £50 in his bedroom;)
Effectively your paying for what you get, which I suppose is the difference between using a professional and a non-pro/bedroom kiddie.
I have a "Mate's rates" for things like this, but then it varies on the requirements. Obviously if his mum's friend wants an all encompassing CMS/Flash dynamically driven site...
> But imagine this, your mothers friend is starting up a business and
> she reccomends her son to build the website.
>
> How much do you charge in that situation?
>
> I suppose it all comes down to being proffesional and what not, but
> asking for £1k+ is pretty alien to some people
>
> "Hi there I'd like a website please"
> - "Yeah sure, thats erm, heh, well......£1000 please, I'll
> have it done in 7 days!"
> "Er, I'll get back to you on that one"
That's where joe bloggs and his dodgy copy of Frontpage steps in @ £50 in his bedroom;)
Effectively your paying for what you get, which I suppose is the difference between using a professional and a non-pro/bedroom kiddie.
I have a "Mate's rates" for things like this, but then it varies on the requirements. Obviously if his mum's friend wants an all encompassing CMS/Flash dynamically driven site...
Tyla wrote:
> Suddenly you realise why
>
> a) £200 for a site is a rediculous notion
> b) Why freelancers earn so much!;)
I understand this concept pretty well.
But imagine this, your mothers friend is starting up a business and she reccomends her son to build the website.
How much do you charge in that situation?
I suppose it all comes down to being proffesional and what not, but asking for £1k+ is pretty alien to some people
"Hi there I'd like a website please"
- "Yeah sure, thats erm, heh, well......£1000 please, I'll have it done in 7 days!"
"Er, I'll get back to you on that one"
> Suddenly you realise why
>
> a) £200 for a site is a rediculous notion
> b) Why freelancers earn so much!;)
I understand this concept pretty well.
But imagine this, your mothers friend is starting up a business and she reccomends her son to build the website.
How much do you charge in that situation?
I suppose it all comes down to being proffesional and what not, but asking for £1k+ is pretty alien to some people
"Hi there I'd like a website please"
- "Yeah sure, thats erm, heh, well......£1000 please, I'll have it done in 7 days!"
"Er, I'll get back to you on that one"
Grix Thraves wrote:
> Holy crap, missed that extra bit you added. I've never seen that much
> money ever, this is scaring me.
Indeed, it's more money than I'll probably ever earn. Makes me wonder why I'm not a web developer :0/
> Holy crap, missed that extra bit you added. I've never seen that much
> money ever, this is scaring me.
Indeed, it's more money than I'll probably ever earn. Makes me wonder why I'm not a web developer :0/
Grix Thraves wrote:
> Holy crap, missed that extra bit you added. I've never seen that much
> money ever, this is scaring me.
I wouldn't quote her less than £1000 if your going for the "first job, being nice approach".
People wanting websites forget that they do take time and money to build. you don't walk into a VW garage and only offer them £50 for a Golf just because that's "How much your wanting to pay" as opposed to "How much it cost to buld + overheads"
End of the day, it's your time, effort, stress levels, lack of sleep, silly hours and skills which are being used to supply them a product. You need to account for that and bill for adequate renumeration.
Your average website designer earns £22,000 p/a which is about £425/week (£84/day @ 7 hours = £12.80ph) but their emplyer pays for the overheads such as power, lighting, hardware, software, licencing etc.
When freelancing, you have to include these costs in what you charge back. Most company's charge out their employees at 300% of what they cost so suddenly the £12.80ph joe is earning is being charged out at £38.40 = £268/day
You can double that figure, at least, for a developer which can be anything up to £750/day.
So based on that
Your project at £260/day would require you to have it built, completed and tested in 26 man hours = £1000!
See where I'm going?
Even if you do it at £130/day that equals 56 hours for their £1000 (8 days) of solid work
So the questions is...
(How long will it take you) x (decided hourly rate) = (project total)
or
(customer budget) / (hourly rate) = (#of hours to complete the project) ?
Suddenly you realise why
a) £200 for a site is a rediculous notion
b) Why freelancers earn so much!;)
> Holy crap, missed that extra bit you added. I've never seen that much
> money ever, this is scaring me.
I wouldn't quote her less than £1000 if your going for the "first job, being nice approach".
People wanting websites forget that they do take time and money to build. you don't walk into a VW garage and only offer them £50 for a Golf just because that's "How much your wanting to pay" as opposed to "How much it cost to buld + overheads"
End of the day, it's your time, effort, stress levels, lack of sleep, silly hours and skills which are being used to supply them a product. You need to account for that and bill for adequate renumeration.
Your average website designer earns £22,000 p/a which is about £425/week (£84/day @ 7 hours = £12.80ph) but their emplyer pays for the overheads such as power, lighting, hardware, software, licencing etc.
When freelancing, you have to include these costs in what you charge back. Most company's charge out their employees at 300% of what they cost so suddenly the £12.80ph joe is earning is being charged out at £38.40 = £268/day
You can double that figure, at least, for a developer which can be anything up to £750/day.
So based on that
Your project at £260/day would require you to have it built, completed and tested in 26 man hours = £1000!
See where I'm going?
Even if you do it at £130/day that equals 56 hours for their £1000 (8 days) of solid work
So the questions is...
(How long will it take you) x (decided hourly rate) = (project total)
or
(customer budget) / (hourly rate) = (#of hours to complete the project) ?
Suddenly you realise why
a) £200 for a site is a rediculous notion
b) Why freelancers earn so much!;)
Holy crap, missed that extra bit you added. I've never seen that much money ever, this is scaring me.
mmm know about that, scarily I have 100+ people blocked. I should really clean up my MSN list too, there's only a few I really talk to.
Anyway, thanks for that Alan, should be able to work a few things out. I'll just go for basic minimum pay, try and work out the time schedule and get back to her today.
Anyway, thanks for that Alan, should be able to work a few things out. I'll just go for basic minimum pay, try and work out the time schedule and get back to her today.
It must suck being popular :0]
Miserableman wrote:
> Tyla wrote:
> Forgot to leave my email.
>
> Probably better getting me on MSN first ([email protected])
>
> FWIW, if I don;t know who you are when adding me, I'll automatically
> deny the request as I get annoyed with idiots who have nothing more
> interesting to do in life than spam my MSN!
>
> That's probably why I've never seen you online then!
Tis a long story, but some one tried using "DeepThroat Trojan" once through my MSN and since then, if I don't recognise the username, I don't accept it at all.
Normally I get people in forums to either post the username I'm to expect or get me to add them as "Digital_Prozac" is fairly obvious to most people if they know me when their notification pops up.
Recent one's I've had in the last 2 weeks include who I don't know by username are:
abercrombee
antony502467
ciaran2003
daniel_hibbert4
franky_lampard
gaming_illusion
pfoussier
rapidz123
thewebmaster
None fo them mean anything to me when an alert pops up!;) So it's sutomatic blocking unfortunately.
> Tyla wrote:
> Forgot to leave my email.
>
> Probably better getting me on MSN first ([email protected])
>
> FWIW, if I don;t know who you are when adding me, I'll automatically
> deny the request as I get annoyed with idiots who have nothing more
> interesting to do in life than spam my MSN!
>
> That's probably why I've never seen you online then!
Tis a long story, but some one tried using "DeepThroat Trojan" once through my MSN and since then, if I don't recognise the username, I don't accept it at all.
Normally I get people in forums to either post the username I'm to expect or get me to add them as "Digital_Prozac" is fairly obvious to most people if they know me when their notification pops up.
Recent one's I've had in the last 2 weeks include who I don't know by username are:
abercrombee
antony502467
ciaran2003
daniel_hibbert4
franky_lampard
gaming_illusion
pfoussier
rapidz123
thewebmaster
None fo them mean anything to me when an alert pops up!;) So it's sutomatic blocking unfortunately.
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