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is it just me, or do other people do it too?
Page:
Haldisa wrote:
> Light wrote:
>
> Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've
> seen
> nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you
> won't
> seek it, because this is part of what defines you.
>
> No one asked me if I sought help in this thread, just assumed I
> didnt. For what its worth I did seek help and yet kept cutting long
> after the help ceased. Didnt do me much good, I eventually sorted
> myself out in my own time.
By "you" I meant people who cut, not specifically you two. Though I admit, I hardly made that clear.
> Light wrote:
>
> Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've
> seen
> nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you
> won't
> seek it, because this is part of what defines you.
>
> No one asked me if I sought help in this thread, just assumed I
> didnt. For what its worth I did seek help and yet kept cutting long
> after the help ceased. Didnt do me much good, I eventually sorted
> myself out in my own time.
By "you" I meant people who cut, not specifically you two. Though I admit, I hardly made that clear.
Light wrote:
>
> Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've seen
> nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you won't
> seek it, because this is part of what defines you.
No one asked me if I sought help in this thread, just assumed I didnt. For what its worth I did seek help and yet kept cutting long after the help ceased. Didnt do me much good, I eventually sorted myself out in my own time.
>
> Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've seen
> nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you won't
> seek it, because this is part of what defines you.
No one asked me if I sought help in this thread, just assumed I didnt. For what its worth I did seek help and yet kept cutting long after the help ceased. Didnt do me much good, I eventually sorted myself out in my own time.
Novocaine wrote:
> Light wrote:
> Then why the extraordinary outburst about ex-smokers?
>
> I think i must have missed that
Fair enough. It's a little further down the thread.
>
> It is innappropriate but i dont for one second believe it's so easy
> to get out of and have been told as much.
Oh God no, it's not an easy thing to get out of as such. But a huge amount of the difficulty does seem to stem from an unwillingness on the part of the person who has cut themselves to actually seek any help.
>
> I've never cut myself, i've hurt myself before but not by cutting
> however i do feel the pull to it and it's one of the strangest
> feelings you could have but i wont start because i've got just about
> enough resolve not to and i've had enough horror stories from other
> people. I'm saying i can see how people are put off getting help
> because of these types of opinions, if you constantly tell someone
> there isn't a real problem they'll believe it, remember these aren't
> emotionallly stable people.
Sorry, but I just don't buy that. If someone cares so little about what others think of them to actually cut themselves, the opinions of others concerning getting help for cutting won't matter either. What you're suggesting is tantamount to placing all of the blame for someone's continued cutting on...well, anyone except the person cutting themselves. Their problem, their responsibility. If they don't want to get help to stop doing it, then that's their choice. But have the courage to accept that it was their choice instead of trying to blame the rest of the world for it.
> Yep you can but i've seen no such understanding so far from anyone
> but yourself.
Believe me, I do hold self harm of this nature in anyone over 20 in absolute and total contempt. I like to think I know quite a lot about what causes people to cut themselves, and that I have a good understanding of the basic mindset of someone who'd cut themselves. And with that in mind, I find that most people who cut themselves are in love with idea of themselves as a victim. I've got no sympathy for anyone unwilling (and I believe it is "unwilling" rather than "unable") to help themselves.
> First thing i did when i posted in here try and get away from the
> cliche, i quite deliberatly picked out a friend who gets away from
> the stereotype, this everyday dissappointment thing though, no i dont
> think so, i've spoken to enough people to know they've always had a
> good reason when they started.
Funny how they can never find a good reason to stop, but there's always plenty of reasons why they can't possibly get help.
> Light wrote:
> Then why the extraordinary outburst about ex-smokers?
>
> I think i must have missed that
Fair enough. It's a little further down the thread.
>
> It is innappropriate but i dont for one second believe it's so easy
> to get out of and have been told as much.
Oh God no, it's not an easy thing to get out of as such. But a huge amount of the difficulty does seem to stem from an unwillingness on the part of the person who has cut themselves to actually seek any help.
>
> I've never cut myself, i've hurt myself before but not by cutting
> however i do feel the pull to it and it's one of the strangest
> feelings you could have but i wont start because i've got just about
> enough resolve not to and i've had enough horror stories from other
> people. I'm saying i can see how people are put off getting help
> because of these types of opinions, if you constantly tell someone
> there isn't a real problem they'll believe it, remember these aren't
> emotionallly stable people.
Sorry, but I just don't buy that. If someone cares so little about what others think of them to actually cut themselves, the opinions of others concerning getting help for cutting won't matter either. What you're suggesting is tantamount to placing all of the blame for someone's continued cutting on...well, anyone except the person cutting themselves. Their problem, their responsibility. If they don't want to get help to stop doing it, then that's their choice. But have the courage to accept that it was their choice instead of trying to blame the rest of the world for it.
> Yep you can but i've seen no such understanding so far from anyone
> but yourself.
Believe me, I do hold self harm of this nature in anyone over 20 in absolute and total contempt. I like to think I know quite a lot about what causes people to cut themselves, and that I have a good understanding of the basic mindset of someone who'd cut themselves. And with that in mind, I find that most people who cut themselves are in love with idea of themselves as a victim. I've got no sympathy for anyone unwilling (and I believe it is "unwilling" rather than "unable") to help themselves.
> First thing i did when i posted in here try and get away from the
> cliche, i quite deliberatly picked out a friend who gets away from
> the stereotype, this everyday dissappointment thing though, no i dont
> think so, i've spoken to enough people to know they've always had a
> good reason when they started.
Funny how they can never find a good reason to stop, but there's always plenty of reasons why they can't possibly get help.
Novocaine wrote:
>
> Yep you can but i've seen no such understanding so far from anyone
> but yourself.
>
>
>Just a bit blind then.
>
> Yep you can but i've seen no such understanding so far from anyone
> but yourself.
>
>
>Just a bit blind then.
Light wrote:
> Then why the extraordinary outburst about ex-smokers?
I think i must have missed that
> I have to say that, from my experience of people who have cut
> themselves, the advice of growing up and getting a grip is bang on
> the nail. It's an inappropriate coping mechanism usually manifested
> by teenagers, just as wailing is a coping mechanism manifested by
> babies. Both usually grow out of it and learn new ways of coping with
> the various upsets that plague life. And believe me, everybody
> suffers hardship in their life.
It is innappropriate but i dont for one second believe it's so easy to get out of and have been told as much.
> Anyway, that's by the by; you're now saying that what other people
> say about cutting has affected how you feel about going to seek help
> for it? So...you're annoyed at the ignorance shown, but you allow
> your own actions with regard to seeking help be dictated by that
> selfsame ignorance? That makes no sense.
I've never cut myself, i've hurt myself before but not by cutting however i do feel the pull to it and it's one of the strangest feelings you could have but i wont start because i've got just about enough resolve not to and i've had enough horror stories from other people. I'm saying i can see how people are put off getting help because of these types of opinions, if you constantly tell someone there isn't a real problem they'll believe it, remember these aren't emotionallly stable people.
> I agree with that. But sometimes one can have a huge understanding of
> what a particular subject is about, and still regard it with
> contempt.
Yep you can but i've seen no such understanding so far from anyone but yourself.
> In fairness, the vast majority of people who cut themselves fit that
> mould more or less. Some cliches are that way for a reason.
>
> And the ones who don't fit that description? I repeat; it's nothing
> more than a p!ss poor way of coping with the everyday disappointments
> of life.
First thing i did when i posted in here try and get away from the cliche, i quite deliberatly picked out a friend who gets away from the stereotype, this everyday dissappointment thing though, no i dont think so, i've spoken to enough people to know they've always had a good reason when they started.
> Then why the extraordinary outburst about ex-smokers?
I think i must have missed that
> I have to say that, from my experience of people who have cut
> themselves, the advice of growing up and getting a grip is bang on
> the nail. It's an inappropriate coping mechanism usually manifested
> by teenagers, just as wailing is a coping mechanism manifested by
> babies. Both usually grow out of it and learn new ways of coping with
> the various upsets that plague life. And believe me, everybody
> suffers hardship in their life.
It is innappropriate but i dont for one second believe it's so easy to get out of and have been told as much.
> Anyway, that's by the by; you're now saying that what other people
> say about cutting has affected how you feel about going to seek help
> for it? So...you're annoyed at the ignorance shown, but you allow
> your own actions with regard to seeking help be dictated by that
> selfsame ignorance? That makes no sense.
I've never cut myself, i've hurt myself before but not by cutting however i do feel the pull to it and it's one of the strangest feelings you could have but i wont start because i've got just about enough resolve not to and i've had enough horror stories from other people. I'm saying i can see how people are put off getting help because of these types of opinions, if you constantly tell someone there isn't a real problem they'll believe it, remember these aren't emotionallly stable people.
> I agree with that. But sometimes one can have a huge understanding of
> what a particular subject is about, and still regard it with
> contempt.
Yep you can but i've seen no such understanding so far from anyone but yourself.
> In fairness, the vast majority of people who cut themselves fit that
> mould more or less. Some cliches are that way for a reason.
>
> And the ones who don't fit that description? I repeat; it's nothing
> more than a p!ss poor way of coping with the everyday disappointments
> of life.
First thing i did when i posted in here try and get away from the cliche, i quite deliberatly picked out a friend who gets away from the stereotype, this everyday dissappointment thing though, no i dont think so, i've spoken to enough people to know they've always had a good reason when they started.
Novocaine wrote:
>
>
> No no no, i've said nothing them refusing to seek help for that
> reason, i said the type of attitude thats prevalent in this country
> makes it difficult for people to accept there is even a problem. Why
> would someone self harming ask for help when the general opinion is
> that it's nonsense, seriously think about it, if you're hurting
> yourself and a friend just tells you to grow up, stop messing around
> and get a grip thats hardly going to help you not to feel stupid, it
> would make going to a counsellor would feel like going to the doctors
> for a cold.
If you were serious about treating the condition of self harm, you wouldn't just listen to your friend for advice. And practically every kid knows of Childline now, or of some local support; again, you're using the excuse that the public isn't taking it seriously. Well, the general option of anything isn't exactly perfect, is it? That's where you go in for specialist help and take their advice.
> The " You wouldn't understand " argument is what comes in
> to play when despite explaining it we still get stupid ignorant
> responses about how it's just teens, they should just toughen up, how
> they all wear black, listen to goth rock, read poetry from manic
> depressives and are attention seeking, it's simply crap and i get fed
> up of constantly saying it's a cliche over and over and over again.
Yes, and when we do come up with replies on how to fix it you still have to refer to that reason. It's like Light said, you're just deferring from confronting the issue rather than trying to sort it out.
>
>
> No no no, i've said nothing them refusing to seek help for that
> reason, i said the type of attitude thats prevalent in this country
> makes it difficult for people to accept there is even a problem. Why
> would someone self harming ask for help when the general opinion is
> that it's nonsense, seriously think about it, if you're hurting
> yourself and a friend just tells you to grow up, stop messing around
> and get a grip thats hardly going to help you not to feel stupid, it
> would make going to a counsellor would feel like going to the doctors
> for a cold.
If you were serious about treating the condition of self harm, you wouldn't just listen to your friend for advice. And practically every kid knows of Childline now, or of some local support; again, you're using the excuse that the public isn't taking it seriously. Well, the general option of anything isn't exactly perfect, is it? That's where you go in for specialist help and take their advice.
> The " You wouldn't understand " argument is what comes in
> to play when despite explaining it we still get stupid ignorant
> responses about how it's just teens, they should just toughen up, how
> they all wear black, listen to goth rock, read poetry from manic
> depressives and are attention seeking, it's simply crap and i get fed
> up of constantly saying it's a cliche over and over and over again.
Yes, and when we do come up with replies on how to fix it you still have to refer to that reason. It's like Light said, you're just deferring from confronting the issue rather than trying to sort it out.
Novocaine wrote:
>
> It's not just you in this thread, you've actually put in some sort of
> argument based on Mrs Light, she's defensive about the others
> attitudes.
Then why the extraordinary outburst about ex-smokers?
>
>
> Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've
> seen
> nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you
> won't
> seek it, because this is part of what defines you. I've seen you try
> to deny that there is even any help available, and I've seen Haldisa
> utterly ignore the points about what stops people who cut seeking
> help in favour of having a pop about a definition.
>
> No no no, i've said nothing them refusing to seek help for that
> reason, i said the type of attitude thats prevalent in this country
> makes it difficult for people to accept there is even a problem. Why
> would someone self harming ask for help when the general opinion is
> that it's nonsense, seriously think about it, if you're hurting
> yourself and a friend just tells you to grow up, stop messing around
> and get a grip thats hardly going to help you not to feel stupid, it
> would make going to a counsellor would feel like going to the doctors
> for a cold.
I have to say that, from my experience of people who have cut themselves, the advice of growing up and getting a grip is bang on the nail. It's an inappropriate coping mechanism usually manifested by teenagers, just as wailing is a coping mechanism manifested by babies. Both usually grow out of it and learn new ways of coping with the various upsets that plague life. And believe me, everybody suffers hardship in their life.
Anyway, that's by the by; you're now saying that what other people say about cutting has affected how you feel about going to seek help for it? So...you're annoyed at the ignorance shown, but you allow your own actions with regard to seeking help be dictated by that selfsame ignorance? That makes no sense.
>
> reason i got involved in this topic was i didn't like what i was
> reading, the opinions being thrown around in, here as well as being
> offensive, would cause problems in the real world and these kind of
> attitudes are what stop people from getting help, the only way you
> help is by understanding.
I agree with that. But sometimes one can have a huge understanding of what a particular subject is about, and still regard it with contempt.
> The " You wouldn't understand " argument is what comes in
> to play when despite explaining it we still get stupid ignorant
> responses about how it's just teens, they should just toughen up, how
> they all wear black, listen to goth rock, read poetry from manic
> depressives and are attention seeking, it's simply crap and i get fed
> up of constantly saying it's a cliche over and over and over again.
In fairness, the vast majority of people who cut themselves fit that mould more or less. Some cliches are that way for a reason.
And the ones who don't fit that description? I repeat; it's nothing more than a p!ss poor way of coping with the everyday disappointments of life. No better or worse than people who cope with their daily grind with a few pints, or the odd spliff. But that's all it is.
>
> It's not just you in this thread, you've actually put in some sort of
> argument based on Mrs Light, she's defensive about the others
> attitudes.
Then why the extraordinary outburst about ex-smokers?
>
>
> Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've
> seen
> nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you
> won't
> seek it, because this is part of what defines you. I've seen you try
> to deny that there is even any help available, and I've seen Haldisa
> utterly ignore the points about what stops people who cut seeking
> help in favour of having a pop about a definition.
>
> No no no, i've said nothing them refusing to seek help for that
> reason, i said the type of attitude thats prevalent in this country
> makes it difficult for people to accept there is even a problem. Why
> would someone self harming ask for help when the general opinion is
> that it's nonsense, seriously think about it, if you're hurting
> yourself and a friend just tells you to grow up, stop messing around
> and get a grip thats hardly going to help you not to feel stupid, it
> would make going to a counsellor would feel like going to the doctors
> for a cold.
I have to say that, from my experience of people who have cut themselves, the advice of growing up and getting a grip is bang on the nail. It's an inappropriate coping mechanism usually manifested by teenagers, just as wailing is a coping mechanism manifested by babies. Both usually grow out of it and learn new ways of coping with the various upsets that plague life. And believe me, everybody suffers hardship in their life.
Anyway, that's by the by; you're now saying that what other people say about cutting has affected how you feel about going to seek help for it? So...you're annoyed at the ignorance shown, but you allow your own actions with regard to seeking help be dictated by that selfsame ignorance? That makes no sense.
>
> reason i got involved in this topic was i didn't like what i was
> reading, the opinions being thrown around in, here as well as being
> offensive, would cause problems in the real world and these kind of
> attitudes are what stop people from getting help, the only way you
> help is by understanding.
I agree with that. But sometimes one can have a huge understanding of what a particular subject is about, and still regard it with contempt.
> The " You wouldn't understand " argument is what comes in
> to play when despite explaining it we still get stupid ignorant
> responses about how it's just teens, they should just toughen up, how
> they all wear black, listen to goth rock, read poetry from manic
> depressives and are attention seeking, it's simply crap and i get fed
> up of constantly saying it's a cliche over and over and over again.
In fairness, the vast majority of people who cut themselves fit that mould more or less. Some cliches are that way for a reason.
And the ones who don't fit that description? I repeat; it's nothing more than a p!ss poor way of coping with the everyday disappointments of life. No better or worse than people who cope with their daily grind with a few pints, or the odd spliff. But that's all it is.
Light wrote:
> Novocaine wrote:
>
>
> She's defensive against the attitudes seen in this thread because
> they dont help and they're uninformed. Having spoken to her for a
> long time she has only ever mentioned it to me twice in 8 months
> very
> briefly, this idea that they all want to talk about it just isn't
> the
> case.
>
> Okay, to an extent I can see the point. However, I've done my utmost
> to approach this by giving some examples of my previous experience
> with people who've cut themselves. And yet still there is the
> defensiveness.
It's not just you in this thread, you've actually put in some sort of argument based on Mrs Light, she's defensive about the others attitudes.
> Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've seen
> nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you won't
> seek it, because this is part of what defines you. I've seen you try
> to deny that there is even any help available, and I've seen Haldisa
> utterly ignore the points about what stops people who cut seeking
> help in favour of having a pop about a definition.
No no no, i've said nothing them refusing to seek help for that reason, i said the type of attitude thats prevalent in this country makes it difficult for people to accept there is even a problem. Why would someone self harming ask for help when the general opinion is that it's nonsense, seriously think about it, if you're hurting yourself and a friend just tells you to grow up, stop messing around and get a grip thats hardly going to help you not to feel stupid, it would make going to a counsellor would feel like going to the doctors for a cold.
> Prior to that, I saw nothing but the standard "You wouldn't
> understand" argument. Which I'm sorry to say simply doesn't wash
> at all. It reads more like a fear of confronting the issue. Which is
> fair enough; we all have our fears. But if you don't want to actually
> solve the problem of someone cutting themselves, I don't see why
> you're discussing it.
The reason i got involved in this topic was i didn't like what i was reading, the opinions being thrown around in, here as well as being offensive, would cause problems in the real world and these kind of attitudes are what stop people from getting help, the only way you help is by understanding.
The " You wouldn't understand " argument is what comes in to play when despite explaining it we still get stupid ignorant responses about how it's just teens, they should just toughen up, how they all wear black, listen to goth rock, read poetry from manic depressives and are attention seeking, it's simply crap and i get fed up of constantly saying it's a cliche over and over and over again.
> Novocaine wrote:
>
>
> She's defensive against the attitudes seen in this thread because
> they dont help and they're uninformed. Having spoken to her for a
> long time she has only ever mentioned it to me twice in 8 months
> very
> briefly, this idea that they all want to talk about it just isn't
> the
> case.
>
> Okay, to an extent I can see the point. However, I've done my utmost
> to approach this by giving some examples of my previous experience
> with people who've cut themselves. And yet still there is the
> defensiveness.
It's not just you in this thread, you've actually put in some sort of argument based on Mrs Light, she's defensive about the others attitudes.
> Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've seen
> nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you won't
> seek it, because this is part of what defines you. I've seen you try
> to deny that there is even any help available, and I've seen Haldisa
> utterly ignore the points about what stops people who cut seeking
> help in favour of having a pop about a definition.
No no no, i've said nothing them refusing to seek help for that reason, i said the type of attitude thats prevalent in this country makes it difficult for people to accept there is even a problem. Why would someone self harming ask for help when the general opinion is that it's nonsense, seriously think about it, if you're hurting yourself and a friend just tells you to grow up, stop messing around and get a grip thats hardly going to help you not to feel stupid, it would make going to a counsellor would feel like going to the doctors for a cold.
> Prior to that, I saw nothing but the standard "You wouldn't
> understand" argument. Which I'm sorry to say simply doesn't wash
> at all. It reads more like a fear of confronting the issue. Which is
> fair enough; we all have our fears. But if you don't want to actually
> solve the problem of someone cutting themselves, I don't see why
> you're discussing it.
The reason i got involved in this topic was i didn't like what i was reading, the opinions being thrown around in, here as well as being offensive, would cause problems in the real world and these kind of attitudes are what stop people from getting help, the only way you help is by understanding.
The " You wouldn't understand " argument is what comes in to play when despite explaining it we still get stupid ignorant responses about how it's just teens, they should just toughen up, how they all wear black, listen to goth rock, read poetry from manic depressives and are attention seeking, it's simply crap and i get fed up of constantly saying it's a cliche over and over and over again.
Novocaine wrote:
> I'll respond when i can be bothered to, i was busy last night and i
> dont see why i should bother replying to someone who shows no
> understanding of the subject when i've got other things to do.
Heh. I can keep on saying the same thing and you'll just keep on with the "I'm depressed, therefore exempt from any comment you make" act.
And you're always moody, Nicky.
> I'll respond when i can be bothered to, i was busy last night and i
> dont see why i should bother replying to someone who shows no
> understanding of the subject when i've got other things to do.
Heh. I can keep on saying the same thing and you'll just keep on with the "I'm depressed, therefore exempt from any comment you make" act.
And you're always moody, Nicky.
Novocaine wrote:
>
> She's defensive against the attitudes seen in this thread because
> they dont help and they're uninformed. Having spoken to her for a
> long time she has only ever mentioned it to me twice in 8 months very
> briefly, this idea that they all want to talk about it just isn't the
> case.
Okay, to an extent I can see the point. However, I've done my utmost to approach this by giving some examples of my previous experience with people who've cut themselves. And yet still there is the defensiveness.
Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've seen nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you won't seek it, because this is part of what defines you. I've seen you try to deny that there is even any help available, and I've seen Haldisa utterly ignore the points about what stops people who cut seeking help in favour of having a pop about a definition.
Prior to that, I saw nothing but the standard "You wouldn't understand" argument. Which I'm sorry to say simply doesn't wash at all. It reads more like a fear of confronting the issue. Which is fair enough; we all have our fears. But if you don't want to actually solve the problem of someone cutting themselves, I don't see why you're discussing it.
I mean, with one breath you're saying that someone "wouldn't understand" because they've never deliberately cut themselves. And the next you're complaining that you don't want to waste your time discussing the issue with people who don't understand it. There's a conflict in those two statements.
>
> She's defensive against the attitudes seen in this thread because
> they dont help and they're uninformed. Having spoken to her for a
> long time she has only ever mentioned it to me twice in 8 months very
> briefly, this idea that they all want to talk about it just isn't the
> case.
Okay, to an extent I can see the point. However, I've done my utmost to approach this by giving some examples of my previous experience with people who've cut themselves. And yet still there is the defensiveness.
Basically, reading through what you and Haldisa are saying, I've seen nothing to change my view that their is help available, but you won't seek it, because this is part of what defines you. I've seen you try to deny that there is even any help available, and I've seen Haldisa utterly ignore the points about what stops people who cut seeking help in favour of having a pop about a definition.
Prior to that, I saw nothing but the standard "You wouldn't understand" argument. Which I'm sorry to say simply doesn't wash at all. It reads more like a fear of confronting the issue. Which is fair enough; we all have our fears. But if you don't want to actually solve the problem of someone cutting themselves, I don't see why you're discussing it.
I mean, with one breath you're saying that someone "wouldn't understand" because they've never deliberately cut themselves. And the next you're complaining that you don't want to waste your time discussing the issue with people who don't understand it. There's a conflict in those two statements.
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