Viewing Thread:
"forces are scum"

I was incensed by a remark made from a staffy at sr today. Reflecting on the whole of the british forces. It really amazes me when some small minded individual thinks that the whole role of the military is to be paid to kill folk. We do not all run forward with guns and we're certainly not mercenaries. In fact I repair radars, radars which keep our coasts safe and radars which are used to save people last time i run forward with a rifle was in 96 im sure.

Sorry for the rant people but lets hear it for the doctors, medics, coastguards, famine relief, public disaster crews, builders, electricians, civil engineers, and bomb disposal crews. our grandads and their dads and their dads before them. Lets hear it for freedom, democracy and all the people who go where no man would ever wish to go.

QUOTED TODAY



loki
"everything flows"
Staff Regular stats
Today at 9.48AM AUXRADAR wrote:
> yep. we do have time off sometimes from putting our lives at risk its
> true.

I love the way that people in the forces keep pointing out that they're 'putting their lives at risk'. What do you want, another dumb little medal? Like we owe them any favours for the job they chose to do.

You know what, people who are prepared to kill people for money do not rate very highly in my opinion.

end quote

Something Loki said made me remember a Bertrand Russel quote;

'Patriots always talk of dying for their country, never of killing for it'

That is just from reading a bit about 'defending' the nation rather than attacking etc. Haven't read the rest of the argument...

not arrogance dear friend. yet ignorance on your behalf of the members of the military. Do you think all jobs relate to killing someone? I dont want a pat on the back or any fortitude or thanks of any kind just want you to realise that the army is not what you see in the pictures because obviously thats what youre basing it on. I stand again, sit down and come back when youve actually researched any argumentitive basis.


little men big mouths... (no disrespect to vertically challenged people)

It's a hard one.

I respect the military and the job it does, but it's a power being abused.
You have to give up your ethics and follow orders.

For me, fighting a proper war like World War 2 would be more important than whether I wanted to be responsible for killing people.


In today's political climate?

cookie monster wrote:
> Fair enough, but what i think Loki was getting at was that in joining
> the armed forces you would be expected to be able to cope with
> dangerous situations.

Exactly. And if you take money to accept those risks then that's your choice, don't expect a pat on the back from me.

And don't give me that stuff about the military not being paid to kill, but to defend. Does anyone know the Iraqi casualty figures over the course of the recent conflict? Who were we protecting there in the course of those casualties and the creation of an unstable state, ridden with terrorists?

If you sign up to the military you accept that you will be prepared to kill (or provide support for those who do the shooting) not for your own ethical judgements or to protect someone of your own volition - but becuase a politician (George Bush, Blair - whoever) has told you to. That is contract killing by another name.

Yes, of course we require a military force. But that doesn't mean I have to particularly respect the people who choose that to get paid for taking tha path above those who fullful any other necessary role (like toilet cleaning for example). How arrogant are you to expect that special treatment?

The armed forces think they should be given more respect or whatever for putting their lives at risk. It's your job though, you chose to do it, and you knew you were going to have to do it. Yes, if you didn't do it, someone else would have to or we'd all die, but you still chose to do that.

It's like when you get the stuff on teh news "Another soldier AWoL because he's a scared little boy who doesn't want to go to Iraq" they knew they were going to have to do similar things when they signed up, why should I care for them?

I did want to join the RAF as a pilot, but changed my life when I thought about how I was going to probably have to fly out and possibly kill someone, or at the very least put my own life at risk. No way, I'm staying away from the forces.

You're all the same. High and mighty thinking you're better than us. Wwell you're wrong. I'm better than all of you.

AUXRADAR wrote:
> wasnt a view on ethics, or of beliefs in freedom. was a divulgence
> into a mans mental autonomy and his thoughts that the forces are a
> bunch of contract killers only after medals. Was simply conveying
> the fact that he is naive to think this, owing to the many wonderful
> and varied jobs the forces offer many of them low paid and lots
> volountary in areas of risk.

It was exactly a view on ethics, just expressed flippantly.

I respect the military and the job they do, I respect the way that second best is never an option, that attention and dedication to the work carried out, whatever that may be, is the foremost priority. And I'm proud to live in a country which has in my view the best military force in the world.

However, although I have given it much thought throughout my life, I think one reason above all others would stop me joining up, assuming I was a suitable candidate. I have lost what faith I have in our government, in their ethics, logic and reason. I say lost, I suppose I never had it to start with, it's just that as I was growing up I didn't know enough about it all to make a judgement.

Now I've been old enough to vote for many years and have never voted in that time. I'm not convinced I can make a difference in this way, and I believe that whatever person/party gets elected in to power next general election may have all the honourable intent in the world, but they'll very soon realise that good intentions are just not enough. That being the case, each successive government may succeed in improving one area, while neglecting another. This war crap is just a terrible waste of resources and money, not to mention human life. I certainly do not believe in the cause and alleged 'benefits'. This being the case, I don't believe I would be working to my full potential, in any role, seeing as how I didn't really believe in what I was doing.

It sounds selfish, but we need to take a good long look at our own country, and work very hard to try and set things straight, before we waste our efforts babysitting nations that don't know how to behave. And blindly agreeing to help the Bush Administration on his crusade against perceived evil, all over the world, is not helping us one iota.

Yep and a good and valid point too. Its the same throughout history theres never so much as peace, more of a mutuality between nations.

Officially argued down, but the freedom thing was just a point really, that even in war, both sides may believe the same thing but be fighting from a different viewpoint.

lcarus wrote:
> Tsk, even the people at the frontline aren't there primarily to kill.
> Just look at Basra - keeping the peace, and more interacting with
> citizens than rifle-butting them.

Exactly, totally exactly the point i wish to convey. Keeping things at the lowest level relies on talking and communication. The ability to express ones self in an articulate manner from the lowest private to the highest general, talking and building relations.

thank you