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I was incensed by a remark made from a staffy at sr today. Reflecting on the whole of the british forces. It really amazes me when some small minded individual thinks that the whole role of the military is to be paid to kill folk. We do not all run forward with guns and we're certainly not mercenaries. In fact I repair radars, radars which keep our coasts safe and radars which are used to save people last time i run forward with a rifle was in 96 im sure.
Sorry for the rant people but lets hear it for the doctors, medics, coastguards, famine relief, public disaster crews, builders, electricians, civil engineers, and bomb disposal crews. our grandads and their dads and their dads before them. Lets hear it for freedom, democracy and all the people who go where no man would ever wish to go.
QUOTED TODAY
loki
"everything flows"
Staff Regular stats
Today at 9.48AM AUXRADAR wrote:
> yep. we do have time off sometimes from putting our lives at risk its
> true.
I love the way that people in the forces keep pointing out that they're 'putting their lives at risk'. What do you want, another dumb little medal? Like we owe them any favours for the job they chose to do.
You know what, people who are prepared to kill people for money do not rate very highly in my opinion.
end quote
Sorry for the rant people but lets hear it for the doctors, medics, coastguards, famine relief, public disaster crews, builders, electricians, civil engineers, and bomb disposal crews. our grandads and their dads and their dads before them. Lets hear it for freedom, democracy and all the people who go where no man would ever wish to go.
QUOTED TODAY
loki
"everything flows"
Staff Regular stats
Today at 9.48AM AUXRADAR wrote:
> yep. we do have time off sometimes from putting our lives at risk its
> true.
I love the way that people in the forces keep pointing out that they're 'putting their lives at risk'. What do you want, another dumb little medal? Like we owe them any favours for the job they chose to do.
You know what, people who are prepared to kill people for money do not rate very highly in my opinion.
end quote
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lol some people just are not worth the effort. not carrying on a discussion with a child minded ignoramous. rant away dear friend the world has dubbed its ears.
AUXRADAR wrote:
> learn to put your point across in a less arrogant and bigotted way in
> future.
>
> Fact 1.. I never ever mentioned that i dis-respected other careers at
> all.. ever! So dont try and retort with tangents and spin.
Ummm.. I never said you did. The point about disrepecting other careers was a reply to something said by Notorious Biggles. No spin involved. Do try to keep up.
> Fact 2 you jumped into a discussion (a month old and about to
> disappear into obscurity) and vented a wholly obtuse comment towards
> my part.
I only just saw it. Thought you deserved it for being so arrogant. Still do.
> Fact 3 have a nice day consider yourself told off and i hope youve
> learned your lesson.
Ha ha! I will if you consider yourself an accessory to murder ;)
On and by the way... you were 'incensed' by my comments? On a chat forum? Just cos I objected to your self-aggrandisment? Grow up you big ninny.
> learn to put your point across in a less arrogant and bigotted way in
> future.
>
> Fact 1.. I never ever mentioned that i dis-respected other careers at
> all.. ever! So dont try and retort with tangents and spin.
Ummm.. I never said you did. The point about disrepecting other careers was a reply to something said by Notorious Biggles. No spin involved. Do try to keep up.
> Fact 2 you jumped into a discussion (a month old and about to
> disappear into obscurity) and vented a wholly obtuse comment towards
> my part.
I only just saw it. Thought you deserved it for being so arrogant. Still do.
> Fact 3 have a nice day consider yourself told off and i hope youve
> learned your lesson.
Ha ha! I will if you consider yourself an accessory to murder ;)
On and by the way... you were 'incensed' by my comments? On a chat forum? Just cos I objected to your self-aggrandisment? Grow up you big ninny.
learn to put your point across in a less arrogant and bigotted way in future.
Fact 1.. I never ever mentioned that i dis-respected other careers at all.. ever! So dont try and retort with tangents and spin.
Fact 2 you jumped into a discussion (a month old and about to disappear into obscurity) and vented a wholly obtuse comment towards my part.
Fact 3 have a nice day consider yourself told off and i hope youve learned your lesson.
discussion closed
Fact 1.. I never ever mentioned that i dis-respected other careers at all.. ever! So dont try and retort with tangents and spin.
Fact 2 you jumped into a discussion (a month old and about to disappear into obscurity) and vented a wholly obtuse comment towards my part.
Fact 3 have a nice day consider yourself told off and i hope youve learned your lesson.
discussion closed
Notorious Biggles wrote:
> loki wrote:
> cookie monster wrote:
> Fair enough, but what i think Loki was getting at was that in
> joining
> the armed forces you would be expected to be able to cope with
> dangerous situations.
>
> Exactly. And if you take money to accept those risks then that's
> your
> choice, don't expect a pat on the back from me.
>
> I don't. I know the risks and I was alright with accepting that level
> of danger. I can deal with everything I come across. Those that can't
> shouldn't be there.
Fair enough Biggles, that's why my original barb was aimed only at that other guy who pointed out that he was allowed to 'take a break from risking his life for us' like he was something special, and not at you.
> loki wrote:
> cookie monster wrote:
> Fair enough, but what i think Loki was getting at was that in
> joining
> the armed forces you would be expected to be able to cope with
> dangerous situations.
>
> Exactly. And if you take money to accept those risks then that's
> your
> choice, don't expect a pat on the back from me.
>
> I don't. I know the risks and I was alright with accepting that level
> of danger. I can deal with everything I come across. Those that can't
> shouldn't be there.
Fair enough Biggles, that's why my original barb was aimed only at that other guy who pointed out that he was allowed to 'take a break from risking his life for us' like he was something special, and not at you.
AUXRADAR wrote:
> not arrogance dear friend. yet ignorance on your behalf of the
> members of the military. Do you think all jobs relate to killing
> someone?
No, that wasn't my point at all - please bear in mind that I expressed my opnion flippantly on a chat forum - don't take things too literally (you murdering scumbag). You've convinently missed the point completely and I'm too busy to walk you through it right now.
> not arrogance dear friend. yet ignorance on your behalf of the
> members of the military. Do you think all jobs relate to killing
> someone?
No, that wasn't my point at all - please bear in mind that I expressed my opnion flippantly on a chat forum - don't take things too literally (you murdering scumbag). You've convinently missed the point completely and I'm too busy to walk you through it right now.
How about a 'Butt Doctor'?
Notorious Biggles wrote:
treatment?
>
> I don't expect special treatment. How snobby are you to be
> disrespectful to those who do necessary jobs?
Try reading more carefully. My whole point was exactly that I respect anyone doing a necessary job equally, and that people in the military are no more special than anyone else. The example could have been any profession.
treatment?
>
> I don't expect special treatment. How snobby are you to be
> disrespectful to those who do necessary jobs?
Try reading more carefully. My whole point was exactly that I respect anyone doing a necessary job equally, and that people in the military are no more special than anyone else. The example could have been any profession.
Notorious Biggles wrote:
> We don't expect special treatment. We do expect the same sort of
> respect for doing a necessary job that other public servants like the
> police, firemen, nurses, doctors, street cleaners et al deserve.
I think the reason that military personnel might not receive the same amount of respect, is that war is never a very popular entity. If the role of our military was only to protect our country directly, then I am 100% sure they would be idolised by society. Unfortunately our military is very often tied up in unpopular scenarios, initiated by a government little have faith in to start off with.
Then there is the arguement that wars cost huge amounts of money. But what has always occured to me is - those soldiers/pilots/support personnel/medics/technicians/mechanics etc are being paid regardless of whether there is a war or not, so in essence, more money is being wasted when we are at peace - keeping a huge industry ticking over when the demand for its use is minor in comparison.
> We don't expect special treatment. We do expect the same sort of
> respect for doing a necessary job that other public servants like the
> police, firemen, nurses, doctors, street cleaners et al deserve.
I think the reason that military personnel might not receive the same amount of respect, is that war is never a very popular entity. If the role of our military was only to protect our country directly, then I am 100% sure they would be idolised by society. Unfortunately our military is very often tied up in unpopular scenarios, initiated by a government little have faith in to start off with.
Then there is the arguement that wars cost huge amounts of money. But what has always occured to me is - those soldiers/pilots/support personnel/medics/technicians/mechanics etc are being paid regardless of whether there is a war or not, so in essence, more money is being wasted when we are at peace - keeping a huge industry ticking over when the demand for its use is minor in comparison.
loki wrote:
> cookie monster wrote:
> Fair enough, but what i think Loki was getting at was that in
> joining
> the armed forces you would be expected to be able to cope with
> dangerous situations.
>
> Exactly. And if you take money to accept those risks then that's your
> choice, don't expect a pat on the back from me.
I don't. I know the risks and I was alright with accepting that level of danger. I can deal with everything I come across. Those that can't shouldn't be there.
> And don't give me that stuff about the military not being paid to
> kill, but to defend. Does anyone know the Iraqi casualty figures over
> the course of the recent conflict? Who were we protecting there in
> the course of those casualties and the creation of an unstable state,
> ridden with terrorists?
Not sure of the total figures, but they are high. Iraq was a mistake, but it has happened now. It would be worse to leave and let extremists take over again. But you seem to be missing the bigger picture. Iraq is one campaign amongst many. What about Kosovo say? That was UN sanctioned and we were defending a pretty much defenceless people who were faced with genocide.
"But you shot stuff". Yeah we did, because offence is the best form of defence. Standing in front of the Kosovans with shields wouldn't really have done much now would it? Taking out the guns shooting at them did.
> If you sign up to the military you accept that you will be prepared
> to kill (or provide support for those who do the shooting) not for
> your own ethical judgements or to protect someone of your own
> volition - but becuase a politician (George Bush, Blair - whoever)
> has told you to. That is contract killing by another name.
If I was a contract killer I'd get paid an awful lot more. I'd also kill an awful lot more. The reality is most of the time the forces job is trying to stop opposing groups killing each other. What would that be? Contract policing?
> Yes, of course we require a military force. But that doesn't mean I
> have to particularly respect the people who choose that to get paid
> for taking tha path above those who fullful any other necessary role
> (like toilet cleaning for example). How arrogant are you to expect
> that special treatment?
I don't expect special treatment. How snobby are you to be disrespectful to those who do necessary jobs? I'd never want to work as a toilet cleaner, but it is a necessary job and I respect those that do that necessary job. Even before I enlisted, I respected those who had a job to do in the forces. I never looked down on them and tried to take a moral high ground. And now I know what it's like.
We don't expect special treatment. We do expect the same sort of respect for doing a necessary job that other public servants like the police, firemen, nurses, doctors, street cleaners et al deserve.
> cookie monster wrote:
> Fair enough, but what i think Loki was getting at was that in
> joining
> the armed forces you would be expected to be able to cope with
> dangerous situations.
>
> Exactly. And if you take money to accept those risks then that's your
> choice, don't expect a pat on the back from me.
I don't. I know the risks and I was alright with accepting that level of danger. I can deal with everything I come across. Those that can't shouldn't be there.
> And don't give me that stuff about the military not being paid to
> kill, but to defend. Does anyone know the Iraqi casualty figures over
> the course of the recent conflict? Who were we protecting there in
> the course of those casualties and the creation of an unstable state,
> ridden with terrorists?
Not sure of the total figures, but they are high. Iraq was a mistake, but it has happened now. It would be worse to leave and let extremists take over again. But you seem to be missing the bigger picture. Iraq is one campaign amongst many. What about Kosovo say? That was UN sanctioned and we were defending a pretty much defenceless people who were faced with genocide.
"But you shot stuff". Yeah we did, because offence is the best form of defence. Standing in front of the Kosovans with shields wouldn't really have done much now would it? Taking out the guns shooting at them did.
> If you sign up to the military you accept that you will be prepared
> to kill (or provide support for those who do the shooting) not for
> your own ethical judgements or to protect someone of your own
> volition - but becuase a politician (George Bush, Blair - whoever)
> has told you to. That is contract killing by another name.
If I was a contract killer I'd get paid an awful lot more. I'd also kill an awful lot more. The reality is most of the time the forces job is trying to stop opposing groups killing each other. What would that be? Contract policing?
> Yes, of course we require a military force. But that doesn't mean I
> have to particularly respect the people who choose that to get paid
> for taking tha path above those who fullful any other necessary role
> (like toilet cleaning for example). How arrogant are you to expect
> that special treatment?
I don't expect special treatment. How snobby are you to be disrespectful to those who do necessary jobs? I'd never want to work as a toilet cleaner, but it is a necessary job and I respect those that do that necessary job. Even before I enlisted, I respected those who had a job to do in the forces. I never looked down on them and tried to take a moral high ground. And now I know what it's like.
We don't expect special treatment. We do expect the same sort of respect for doing a necessary job that other public servants like the police, firemen, nurses, doctors, street cleaners et al deserve.
Cyclone wrote:
> Something Loki said made me remember a Betradn Russel quote;
>
> 'Patriots always talk of dying for their country, never of killing
> for it'
>
> That is just from reading a bit about 'defending' the nation rather
> than attacking etc. Haevn't read the rest of the argument...
thank you dear friend, although if i could have my way nobody would be hurt at all
> Something Loki said made me remember a Betradn Russel quote;
>
> 'Patriots always talk of dying for their country, never of killing
> for it'
>
> That is just from reading a bit about 'defending' the nation rather
> than attacking etc. Haevn't read the rest of the argument...
thank you dear friend, although if i could have my way nobody would be hurt at all
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