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I'll admit straight out the gate that I'm biased, I love the original Star Wars trilogy like an illegitimate film baby.
They're being released on DVD later this year and I'll buy them - Special Edition or not, it doesn't matter.
Star Wars holds a place in my heart, my childhood and my memories. The defining movies of my generation, and they'll always be that way. No amount of tinkering or rejigging by Lucas can change that.
Why?
Because Star Wars was the first film I ever saw. And the first time I'd ever been to the cinema.
I was 4 yrs old, Saturday morning and my dad took me to the cinema to introduce me to films. This was when The Odeon in Harlow was a gigantic, single screen place with an upper balcony, the left-hand side reserved for smokers and a woman would come down after the adverts with her little tray and you could buy Ki-Ora and Cornettos before the film started.
They played a cartoon first, I had my drink and settled back.
The curtains drew back and everything went dark.
Then *that* music started and the opening crawl came up (dad read it to me in case I missed any).
Then a rumble started from the back of the cinema, I remember turning round and looking to see what it was.
And then that Star Destroyer hoved into view. It just slowly appeared and kept appearing for what seemed like an age. I'd never ever seen anything like it before. Then the corridor and the rebels running down, the silent anticipation of what was to come.
I was glued to my seat, saucer eyed and slack-jawed.
The door blows in and Stormtroopers come out, then from the smoke? The greatest screen villain in my history:
Darth Vader. Strolling out from the smoke, dressed in black, breathing strangely and strangling a rebel. Terrified me beyond words.
You can't imagine the effect that film had on a 4yr old Goatboy. No experience like it ever before, nothing to compare it to, a vocabulary too small to explain. I made my dad take me back 5 times to watch it, and I had all the toys. I loved that world completely.
I wanted to be Luke Skywalker - the innocent naive kid that wanted to be a Star Pilot at the Academy, wanted to have adventures and see things. We all wanted that. We wanted Chewbacca as a friend, droids as cool toys and we wanted Landspeeders, lightsabers and The Death Star.
It unlocked my imagination and gave birth to a love of movies in me.
You had the classic villain, Darth Vader. You had the shining good guy Luke Skywalker, you had the Princess, the nice old man Ben Kenobi etc.
This was a world we'd never even thought could exist before.
And then 4 years later came The Empire Strikes Back.
You better believe me and my mates were at the front of the queue.
We were 8 now, and much more adult and grown up. We'd all seen Star Wars dozens of times between us (this was before the birth of VHS remember, you couldn't see them anywhere else *but* the cinema) and we knew the story.
We settled back, almost bursting with excitement and we were taken to that world again.
Hoth? Snow? Luke attacked by a Yeti and left for dead? NO WAY! But here comes Han Solo and Chewie, just as we remembered them to save him.
His mates came looking for him, they'd never let their friend die. We understood that and would do the same, we swore to each other.
AT-AT Walkers? Yoda? Ben Kenobi back? This was so much more than we ever hoped.
And then *that* moment. The greatest twist and so unexpected. We had no idea it was coming and there was just no way it could be.
"I am your Father"
????????Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's dad????????
Han Solo frozen and taken away by Boba Fett????????
Luke with a robot hand??????
And Empire ends.
We had to wait another 4 years to find out what was happening.
12 years old. The final chapter.
Jabba The Hut, Leia is Luke's sister? Speederbike chases, Ewoks (meh), Yoda dies? Han & Leia get it together? The Emperor dead, Vader's face revealed, reconciliation between father & son. The whole gang back together, The Empire defeated, the universe is calm and safe.
Faultless.
Movies that we had began to watch aged 4. Characters we grew up with and wanted to be so badly. Dialogue we knew and quoted in the playground.
Han Solo, Stormtroopers, Jabba, The Cantina, Greedo, the trash-compactor, the Death Star finale, the trench-run, AT-AT walkers, Millenium Falcon, X-Wings, Darth Vader, Han Solo in carbonite, "I love you" "I know", Speederbikes.
All these things have become cinema iconography and etched in the memory of those that saw them at the cinema as kids, formative cinema years and introductions to movies and sci-fi.
Absolutely incomparable to anything else since, Star Wars led the way for summer blockbusters and invented the whole genre.
And then 22 years later after Star Wars came out, Lucas announces he's making another 3.
Millions of 25-30yr olds instantly arc streams of fanboy silk-love into the ether.
We see stills, hear snippets, watch the music video, see the toys appearing, see the posters months in advance. We hear rumours:
Obi-Wan is back, Yoda is there, the Droids.
This will be the coolest thing since I was 4 years old.
The Phantom Menace.
THAT music blares, the opening crawl. Idiot grin on my face, I'm 4 again. I'm right back there seeing it for the first time.
The ship flies over again...I'm ready for this after 22 years of waiting, I want this to be good.
...ummm.....
This sounds like Star Wars, it looks like Star Wars. But it's not Star Wars, something's wrong.
Where's the banter between characters?
Where's the loveable rogue?
Where's the innocent, lusting for excitement everyday kid?
Where's the villain?
Where's the stormtroopers?
Where are the set pieces?
Where is the memorable dialogue?
I see earnest cheesy "But Master" "No, you are young" from what are supposed to be Jedi Knights. Where's the "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper"? Where's "Ah that conversation was getting boring anyway"? Where's "I don't care what you smell, get down there you big furball?"
There's no snappy wit, there's no jokes, there's no cynicism.
There's some crap about trade blockades, some pasty faced man-voiced Queen saying "I will nard give in do them Vice Chansellorrrr"
There's some annoying little kid that shouts "Wizards!" in a space battle.
There's no C3P0 and R2D2 banter, there's nothing in the dialogue.
There's no villain here. I saw Darth Maul in the trailer, I want Darth Maul. I want to feel like these guys are in danger, mortal danger from The Empire. Eh? There's no Empire????? What the fu-
No Stormtroopers? Just these tossy battle-droids that say "Roger Roger"?
Jar-Jar? A comedy character? What is this?
No wait, here's Darth Maul. Now it's gonna get good!...oh, he's dead.
And Schindler-Gon Jin is dead. Except he's not, it's exactly what happened to Obi-Wan in Star Wars.
Maaaan, this sucks. I don't care about some little 7yr old.
There's nobody here to identify with. Adults had Han Solo, the cocky space pirate who mocked everything. Kids had Luke who wanted adventure. Little girls had Princess Leia.
What's here? A little moppet, Renton-Kenobi and Leon's assassin helper in Pirot the Clown make-up sounding like a transexual?
This is awful.
Attack of The Clones.
I can't even go into the bowel-loosingly shiteness of that film.
"I'm Boba Fett, well reknowned Bounty Hunter. Here, another bounty hunter, kill Amidala for me whilst I do nothing."
"I'm Darth Vader. Why can't I touch her boobs master? Wah wah wah, this is so unfair, I like, hate you and stuff"
"I'm Saruman, see me fight Yoda in the one good scene even remotely echoing the first 3 movies"
These new movies blow. They're not Star Wars.
"Oh well Lucas meant for it to be in this order"
Really? Wrong.
If I have kids, they'll see Episode 4 first, as it was originally.
Why?
Because otherwise what do you have?
You reach Episode 3 and you know the entire backstory.
Star Wars Episode 4 starts and you think "There's Luke Skywalker, son of Annakin who was good once but fell to the Dark Side and is now Darth Vader under command of The Emperor"
Obi-Wan talks to Luke about his father and hands him his lightsabre and you think "I know all this already, his dad is Darth Vader, get on with it"
Empire holds no revelations.
"Search your feelings Luke, you know it to be true"
"No"
"I am your father"
"Never!"
Audience "Well done Luke, we knew this 4 movies ago you spaz"
And what really annoys me?
I'll go watch Episode 3 and I'll buy them all on DVD because the first 3 hold such powerful memories for me.
Damn you Lucas.
They're being released on DVD later this year and I'll buy them - Special Edition or not, it doesn't matter.
Star Wars holds a place in my heart, my childhood and my memories. The defining movies of my generation, and they'll always be that way. No amount of tinkering or rejigging by Lucas can change that.
Why?
Because Star Wars was the first film I ever saw. And the first time I'd ever been to the cinema.
I was 4 yrs old, Saturday morning and my dad took me to the cinema to introduce me to films. This was when The Odeon in Harlow was a gigantic, single screen place with an upper balcony, the left-hand side reserved for smokers and a woman would come down after the adverts with her little tray and you could buy Ki-Ora and Cornettos before the film started.
They played a cartoon first, I had my drink and settled back.
The curtains drew back and everything went dark.
Then *that* music started and the opening crawl came up (dad read it to me in case I missed any).
Then a rumble started from the back of the cinema, I remember turning round and looking to see what it was.
And then that Star Destroyer hoved into view. It just slowly appeared and kept appearing for what seemed like an age. I'd never ever seen anything like it before. Then the corridor and the rebels running down, the silent anticipation of what was to come.
I was glued to my seat, saucer eyed and slack-jawed.
The door blows in and Stormtroopers come out, then from the smoke? The greatest screen villain in my history:
Darth Vader. Strolling out from the smoke, dressed in black, breathing strangely and strangling a rebel. Terrified me beyond words.
You can't imagine the effect that film had on a 4yr old Goatboy. No experience like it ever before, nothing to compare it to, a vocabulary too small to explain. I made my dad take me back 5 times to watch it, and I had all the toys. I loved that world completely.
I wanted to be Luke Skywalker - the innocent naive kid that wanted to be a Star Pilot at the Academy, wanted to have adventures and see things. We all wanted that. We wanted Chewbacca as a friend, droids as cool toys and we wanted Landspeeders, lightsabers and The Death Star.
It unlocked my imagination and gave birth to a love of movies in me.
You had the classic villain, Darth Vader. You had the shining good guy Luke Skywalker, you had the Princess, the nice old man Ben Kenobi etc.
This was a world we'd never even thought could exist before.
And then 4 years later came The Empire Strikes Back.
You better believe me and my mates were at the front of the queue.
We were 8 now, and much more adult and grown up. We'd all seen Star Wars dozens of times between us (this was before the birth of VHS remember, you couldn't see them anywhere else *but* the cinema) and we knew the story.
We settled back, almost bursting with excitement and we were taken to that world again.
Hoth? Snow? Luke attacked by a Yeti and left for dead? NO WAY! But here comes Han Solo and Chewie, just as we remembered them to save him.
His mates came looking for him, they'd never let their friend die. We understood that and would do the same, we swore to each other.
AT-AT Walkers? Yoda? Ben Kenobi back? This was so much more than we ever hoped.
And then *that* moment. The greatest twist and so unexpected. We had no idea it was coming and there was just no way it could be.
"I am your Father"
????????Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's dad????????
Han Solo frozen and taken away by Boba Fett????????
Luke with a robot hand??????
And Empire ends.
We had to wait another 4 years to find out what was happening.
12 years old. The final chapter.
Jabba The Hut, Leia is Luke's sister? Speederbike chases, Ewoks (meh), Yoda dies? Han & Leia get it together? The Emperor dead, Vader's face revealed, reconciliation between father & son. The whole gang back together, The Empire defeated, the universe is calm and safe.
Faultless.
Movies that we had began to watch aged 4. Characters we grew up with and wanted to be so badly. Dialogue we knew and quoted in the playground.
Han Solo, Stormtroopers, Jabba, The Cantina, Greedo, the trash-compactor, the Death Star finale, the trench-run, AT-AT walkers, Millenium Falcon, X-Wings, Darth Vader, Han Solo in carbonite, "I love you" "I know", Speederbikes.
All these things have become cinema iconography and etched in the memory of those that saw them at the cinema as kids, formative cinema years and introductions to movies and sci-fi.
Absolutely incomparable to anything else since, Star Wars led the way for summer blockbusters and invented the whole genre.
And then 22 years later after Star Wars came out, Lucas announces he's making another 3.
Millions of 25-30yr olds instantly arc streams of fanboy silk-love into the ether.
We see stills, hear snippets, watch the music video, see the toys appearing, see the posters months in advance. We hear rumours:
Obi-Wan is back, Yoda is there, the Droids.
This will be the coolest thing since I was 4 years old.
The Phantom Menace.
THAT music blares, the opening crawl. Idiot grin on my face, I'm 4 again. I'm right back there seeing it for the first time.
The ship flies over again...I'm ready for this after 22 years of waiting, I want this to be good.
...ummm.....
This sounds like Star Wars, it looks like Star Wars. But it's not Star Wars, something's wrong.
Where's the banter between characters?
Where's the loveable rogue?
Where's the innocent, lusting for excitement everyday kid?
Where's the villain?
Where's the stormtroopers?
Where are the set pieces?
Where is the memorable dialogue?
I see earnest cheesy "But Master" "No, you are young" from what are supposed to be Jedi Knights. Where's the "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper"? Where's "Ah that conversation was getting boring anyway"? Where's "I don't care what you smell, get down there you big furball?"
There's no snappy wit, there's no jokes, there's no cynicism.
There's some crap about trade blockades, some pasty faced man-voiced Queen saying "I will nard give in do them Vice Chansellorrrr"
There's some annoying little kid that shouts "Wizards!" in a space battle.
There's no C3P0 and R2D2 banter, there's nothing in the dialogue.
There's no villain here. I saw Darth Maul in the trailer, I want Darth Maul. I want to feel like these guys are in danger, mortal danger from The Empire. Eh? There's no Empire????? What the fu-
No Stormtroopers? Just these tossy battle-droids that say "Roger Roger"?
Jar-Jar? A comedy character? What is this?
No wait, here's Darth Maul. Now it's gonna get good!...oh, he's dead.
And Schindler-Gon Jin is dead. Except he's not, it's exactly what happened to Obi-Wan in Star Wars.
Maaaan, this sucks. I don't care about some little 7yr old.
There's nobody here to identify with. Adults had Han Solo, the cocky space pirate who mocked everything. Kids had Luke who wanted adventure. Little girls had Princess Leia.
What's here? A little moppet, Renton-Kenobi and Leon's assassin helper in Pirot the Clown make-up sounding like a transexual?
This is awful.
Attack of The Clones.
I can't even go into the bowel-loosingly shiteness of that film.
"I'm Boba Fett, well reknowned Bounty Hunter. Here, another bounty hunter, kill Amidala for me whilst I do nothing."
"I'm Darth Vader. Why can't I touch her boobs master? Wah wah wah, this is so unfair, I like, hate you and stuff"
"I'm Saruman, see me fight Yoda in the one good scene even remotely echoing the first 3 movies"
These new movies blow. They're not Star Wars.
"Oh well Lucas meant for it to be in this order"
Really? Wrong.
If I have kids, they'll see Episode 4 first, as it was originally.
Why?
Because otherwise what do you have?
You reach Episode 3 and you know the entire backstory.
Star Wars Episode 4 starts and you think "There's Luke Skywalker, son of Annakin who was good once but fell to the Dark Side and is now Darth Vader under command of The Emperor"
Obi-Wan talks to Luke about his father and hands him his lightsabre and you think "I know all this already, his dad is Darth Vader, get on with it"
Empire holds no revelations.
"Search your feelings Luke, you know it to be true"
"No"
"I am your father"
"Never!"
Audience "Well done Luke, we knew this 4 movies ago you spaz"
And what really annoys me?
I'll go watch Episode 3 and I'll buy them all on DVD because the first 3 hold such powerful memories for me.
Damn you Lucas.
Page:
All we've really got left to look forward to is finding out how Samuel L. Jackson gets killed (if they let him live, I'll be livid - only Yoda and Obi Wan were meant to be left!!!!111), and how Anakin dies and becomes Vader. And what happens to Padme. That's it, nothing else really. And yeah, the dialogue between the characters in the original trilogy (IV-VII) was much better, even funny at times, which really caught the sheer rogueness of Solo, and the, err, fuzziness of Chewie.
Darwock wrote:
> So that would make you.. ten years old? If you were 4 in 1997...
> Unless you were at some futuristic cinema that actually had surround
> sound in 1977.
------
Or I was 4 and had never been in a cinema before and had no experience of that level of sound or size of anything and was trying to figure out what was going on.
It's called trying to convey emotion.
You assclown.
> So that would make you.. ten years old? If you were 4 in 1997...
> Unless you were at some futuristic cinema that actually had surround
> sound in 1977.
------
Or I was 4 and had never been in a cinema before and had no experience of that level of sound or size of anything and was trying to figure out what was going on.
It's called trying to convey emotion.
You assclown.
I think more than anything, the thing that lacks from the new films is suspense.
It's impossibly to conjure any kind of thrill or the possibility that they might get injured because you already know how it ends.
"Annakin's in the pod race, he might smash into the wall or get killed!"
"No, he dies in Return of The Jedi. We've already seen it happen"
"Obi-Wan being chased by a big squid thing, he might get eaten!!!"
"No, he dies in A New Hope at the hands of Vader. We've already seen it happen"
"Darth Maul might kill Obi-Wan & Schindler!!!"
"Nope, Obi-Wan dies in A New Hope and Schindler has done that disappearing bit"
"Obi-Wan is fighting Jango Fett at Oceanworld! Did he just die when he get knocked over the side???!!!"
"Nope, Obi-Wan dies in A New Hope"
"Annakin is fighting Dracula with Yoda, Dracula might win!!!!!!"
"Nope, Annakin becomes Darth Vader and Yoda dies in Return of The Jedi"
"The big Jedi battle! Annakin & Obi-Wan chained in an arena with the girl! They could get eaten!!!!"
"Nope, we know exactly where, how and when they all die. Except the girl, but she hasn't given birth to Luke & Leia yet, so she'll be fine"
They're just big empty set-pieces for the sake of it. However well executed, whatever edge-of-seat peril they might be in, you've already seen how it ends and who dies and how so it's simply watching pretty colours and CGI.
A mate summed up exactly why I'm not a fan of Phantom or Clones:
"It's like watching somebody else play a video game in 35mm"
It's nothing to do with cheesy one-liners, it's to do with characters.
It's nothinhg to do with ropey special effects, it's to do with having invested your interests in these characters, who will live? How will it end? Will Vader ever be defeated? Will Han be defrosted and reunited with his mates?
There's nothing to do, no story to tell with the first 3 because it's already been done in 4, 5 and six.
There is more pathos in listening to a spirit Ben-Kenobi telling Luke he has a sister than Mannequin Skywalker being nu-metal space angsty about his mum.
"Grrrr grrr, I killed them all like animals"
"I love you, let's have space sex"
"Grrrr grrr, I feel really angry and upset, I might turn evil and stuff"
"Yes we know you will, we've waited for 2 movies for you to do this, that's the only thing people care about and the whole point of these prequels, instead Lucas has left it until the last picture. Now touch my space boobs"
"Grrrr grrr, I hate everything"
Toss
It's impossibly to conjure any kind of thrill or the possibility that they might get injured because you already know how it ends.
"Annakin's in the pod race, he might smash into the wall or get killed!"
"No, he dies in Return of The Jedi. We've already seen it happen"
"Obi-Wan being chased by a big squid thing, he might get eaten!!!"
"No, he dies in A New Hope at the hands of Vader. We've already seen it happen"
"Darth Maul might kill Obi-Wan & Schindler!!!"
"Nope, Obi-Wan dies in A New Hope and Schindler has done that disappearing bit"
"Obi-Wan is fighting Jango Fett at Oceanworld! Did he just die when he get knocked over the side???!!!"
"Nope, Obi-Wan dies in A New Hope"
"Annakin is fighting Dracula with Yoda, Dracula might win!!!!!!"
"Nope, Annakin becomes Darth Vader and Yoda dies in Return of The Jedi"
"The big Jedi battle! Annakin & Obi-Wan chained in an arena with the girl! They could get eaten!!!!"
"Nope, we know exactly where, how and when they all die. Except the girl, but she hasn't given birth to Luke & Leia yet, so she'll be fine"
They're just big empty set-pieces for the sake of it. However well executed, whatever edge-of-seat peril they might be in, you've already seen how it ends and who dies and how so it's simply watching pretty colours and CGI.
A mate summed up exactly why I'm not a fan of Phantom or Clones:
"It's like watching somebody else play a video game in 35mm"
It's nothing to do with cheesy one-liners, it's to do with characters.
It's nothinhg to do with ropey special effects, it's to do with having invested your interests in these characters, who will live? How will it end? Will Vader ever be defeated? Will Han be defrosted and reunited with his mates?
There's nothing to do, no story to tell with the first 3 because it's already been done in 4, 5 and six.
There is more pathos in listening to a spirit Ben-Kenobi telling Luke he has a sister than Mannequin Skywalker being nu-metal space angsty about his mum.
"Grrrr grrr, I killed them all like animals"
"I love you, let's have space sex"
"Grrrr grrr, I feel really angry and upset, I might turn evil and stuff"
"Yes we know you will, we've waited for 2 movies for you to do this, that's the only thing people care about and the whole point of these prequels, instead Lucas has left it until the last picture. Now touch my space boobs"
"Grrrr grrr, I hate everything"
Toss
He was going to originally make 7,8 and 9 straight after the prequels, but I think he realised just how long that would take and bottled out. Shame.
Isn't there a 6 year gap between A New Hope and Return of the Jedi? I guess that's a good example where the sequels of a trilogy can be just as good, if not better than the original.
The Matrix sequels and the Star Wars prequels I dunno. But The LotR sequels seem to have lived up to the original.
Do you think George will be silly enough to try and remake episodes 4-6. Wasn't there a 7, 8 and 9 aswell?
The Matrix sequels and the Star Wars prequels I dunno. But The LotR sequels seem to have lived up to the original.
Do you think George will be silly enough to try and remake episodes 4-6. Wasn't there a 7, 8 and 9 aswell?
They didn't have fancy things like speakers back then, they just had hired help stood at the sides bashing gongs or scraping washboards :)
Goatboy wrote:
> Then a rumble started from the back of the cinema, I remember turning
> round and looking to see what it was.
So that would make you.. ten years old? If you were 4 in 1997... Unless you were at some futuristic cinema that actually had surround sound in 1977.
> Then a rumble started from the back of the cinema, I remember turning
> round and looking to see what it was.
So that would make you.. ten years old? If you were 4 in 1997... Unless you were at some futuristic cinema that actually had surround sound in 1977.
I think the point is that these days we are too quick to judge films on what came before them. If a film isn't exactly the same style and design as the earlier in the series, people start shouting about how it is raping the memory of the earlier episodes. But you can't evolve a series without taking some large risks - look at terminator 3, the matrix reloaded/revolutions, predator 2 etc etc etc there are many examples.
I'd rather film producers took these risks rather than re-hashing the same material only with different characters, for example Final Destination 2, where you see one and you've seen them all.
I'd rather film producers took these risks rather than re-hashing the same material only with different characters, for example Final Destination 2, where you see one and you've seen them all.
Goatboy wrote:
> "I'm Saruman, see me fight Yoda in the one good scene even
> remotely echoing the first 3 movies"
Ha ha, but seriously goaty, a spiel that long abut star wars is bordering on The Geek.
> "I'm Saruman, see me fight Yoda in the one good scene even
> remotely echoing the first 3 movies"
Ha ha, but seriously goaty, a spiel that long abut star wars is bordering on The Geek.
Widge wrote:
> Plus the entire
> Resident Evil episode made me crack up.
Once I heard the director and Simon Pegg were doing "Shaun of the dead", re-watching this episode laid any fears I had about them doing a zombie film justice to rest. An excellent series all in all.
> Plus the entire
> Resident Evil episode made me crack up.
Once I heard the director and Simon Pegg were doing "Shaun of the dead", re-watching this episode laid any fears I had about them doing a zombie film justice to rest. An excellent series all in all.
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