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I was watching the news, a special report on a Shi-ite group in Iran.
One of them said (paraphrased) 'there are many of us willing to give our lives to prevent the American occupation of Iraq'.
And I felt admiration.
People with the balls to stand up.
I should probably qualify that by confirming that the only implication of harm was towards the American military.
But nonetheless, when I caught myself thinking that.. damn.
On reflection I feel like I shouldn't think this way. If I'm completely honest with myself I'm not sure whether I really do or not.
IMO, the American occupation does increasingly look like just another corrupt dictatorship, hanging onto power for as long as the international community will stand by watching.
I saw on the news that all over Iraq, oil production is at upwards of 90% of pre-war levels, while cities still lie in ruins and a population are left largely unaided as they try to get to their feet.
But even so...
Damn.
Maybe I've lost objectivity. Maybe I've been swept along with an overreacting media / public opinion.
Maybe I've come to realise that the evil is truely inherant in all sides, and I'm just yet to learn to balance for the lesser.
Or maybe that instinct was right.
I don't know anymore. And I don't know who to trust from the people who claim to know.
One of them said (paraphrased) 'there are many of us willing to give our lives to prevent the American occupation of Iraq'.
And I felt admiration.
People with the balls to stand up.
I should probably qualify that by confirming that the only implication of harm was towards the American military.
But nonetheless, when I caught myself thinking that.. damn.
On reflection I feel like I shouldn't think this way. If I'm completely honest with myself I'm not sure whether I really do or not.
IMO, the American occupation does increasingly look like just another corrupt dictatorship, hanging onto power for as long as the international community will stand by watching.
I saw on the news that all over Iraq, oil production is at upwards of 90% of pre-war levels, while cities still lie in ruins and a population are left largely unaided as they try to get to their feet.
But even so...
Damn.
Maybe I've lost objectivity. Maybe I've been swept along with an overreacting media / public opinion.
Maybe I've come to realise that the evil is truely inherant in all sides, and I'm just yet to learn to balance for the lesser.
Or maybe that instinct was right.
I don't know anymore. And I don't know who to trust from the people who claim to know.
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Belldandy wrote:
> But "we" do need it, that money is other peoples money that
> was held in banks, and it's been spent. If it isn't brought back then
> who paid for it ? It's like me telling the bank I won't pay the
> overdraft and them saying, no problem we'll take it from Bane's
> wages... Just aboutevery country (us included) is in debt and owes
> money to someone/something, but because most have adequate means to
> pay the debt they're allowed to do it.
Surprisngly, my mother mentioned something about this - with all the money in the world, how much of it is actually physically real?
> But "we" do need it, that money is other peoples money that
> was held in banks, and it's been spent. If it isn't brought back then
> who paid for it ? It's like me telling the bank I won't pay the
> overdraft and them saying, no problem we'll take it from Bane's
> wages... Just aboutevery country (us included) is in debt and owes
> money to someone/something, but because most have adequate means to
> pay the debt they're allowed to do it.
Surprisngly, my mother mentioned something about this - with all the money in the world, how much of it is actually physically real?
Dr Duck wrote:
> By the same token you could trace the debt to the people who put him
> there.
>
> Oh wait...
Last time I looked banks were supposed to be "responsible lenders" - bringing it back to which idiots allowed that amount of debt to be acrued in the first place, and seeing as Saddam was in power for a fair number of years what did they do to retrieve the debt in that time.
Meh, let the Russians and Chinese pay it off, they've got plenty of his money in their banks from weapons sales and had contracts with him right up until 2003.
> By the same token you could trace the debt to the people who put him
> there.
>
> Oh wait...
Last time I looked banks were supposed to be "responsible lenders" - bringing it back to which idiots allowed that amount of debt to be acrued in the first place, and seeing as Saddam was in power for a fair number of years what did they do to retrieve the debt in that time.
Meh, let the Russians and Chinese pay it off, they've got plenty of his money in their banks from weapons sales and had contracts with him right up until 2003.
But "we" do need it, that money is other peoples money that was held in banks, and it's been spent. If it isn't brought back then who paid for it ? It's like me telling the bank I won't pay the overdraft and them saying, no problem we'll take it from Bane's wages... Just aboutevery country (us included) is in debt and owes money to someone/something, but because most have adequate means to pay the debt they're allowed to do it.
Where was it spent, because it isn't lying in some vault, and form the news footage there is no way one short military campaign made that amount of improvements disappear.
Where was it spent, because it isn't lying in some vault, and form the news footage there is no way one short military campaign made that amount of improvements disappear.
The first 'he' being Thomas, the next being Saddam... :^)
I saw that too. I had no idea Iraq had that kind of debt.
He did put together a fairly strong case, particularly in the analogy with Ethiopia.
And I suppose since he wasn't democratically elected, then the debt shouldn't be tied to the Iraqi people.
By the same token you could trace the debt to the people who put him there.
Oh wait...
He did put together a fairly strong case, particularly in the analogy with Ethiopia.
And I suppose since he wasn't democratically elected, then the debt shouldn't be tied to the Iraqi people.
By the same token you could trace the debt to the people who put him there.
Oh wait...
It should be written off completely. We don't need it and they haven't a chance in hell of paying it off. Before the adverts of the programme a counter came up, showing how quickly the debt was increasing, and apparently in just the first half of the programme it increased by over a quarter of a million dollars.
Well we took out his sons when attempting to capture them, and the majority of his family is either in US custody, dead, in hiding with Saddam.
A better question would be who the hell authorised that amount of loans in the first place to him. *suspects he knows the answer*
A better question would be who the hell authorised that amount of loans in the first place to him. *suspects he knows the answer*
Heh, my first reaction is that debts often pass on to the next of kin.
Nope, didn't see that, and without knowing more about it I wouldn't like to say yes or no as to whether they should pay off the debt or not - the money does have to come from somewhere, unless you'd like to pay it off with some taxpayer's money.
Going back to blind faith, isn't being suspect of the motives of government and it's supporters a faith in itself ? I don't think it's right to call people idiots just for a belief because that belief is obviously rooted in something powerful enough for them to believe in it in the first place. What's stupid or idiotic to one person may not be to another, and so on.
Going back to blind faith, isn't being suspect of the motives of government and it's supporters a faith in itself ? I don't think it's right to call people idiots just for a belief because that belief is obviously rooted in something powerful enough for them to believe in it in the first place. What's stupid or idiotic to one person may not be to another, and so on.
On a side issue, I don't suppose anyone saw "Mark Thomas - Debt Collector" last night, did they? Interesting programme, raised the issue that the ordinary Iraqi citizens should not have to pay off the 383 billion (with a B) dollar debt. It's the debt of Saddam, and if the country is liberated from that guy, then that means they don't have to pay off his debts. But they do. Iraqi debt is actually bought and sold, like stocks and shares.
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