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[I Posted this in general chat by accident, think it will be better received here as you're all quite politically minded not like the goons who dwell in general chat]
First of all I hate people who blatently contradict themselves. This is brought to life perfectly by the president of the United States of America, mr George Bush.
Now after the tradgedy of September 11th, 2 years ago today, the war on terrorism went into play. Now Iraq were told to own up to any weapons of mass destruction they had because they are, in a nutshell, threatened by them. But hold on, America spend billions of dollars each year making nuclear weaponry and in what cause? Surely it is made to be used if needs be and I am sure that if Iraq were clever enough to make nuclear weapons they know the consequences the detonation of one has on the planet.
In a recent internet poll, George Bush was voted as the second most dangerous man on the planet. Now the people who voted werent phychologists or experts on the subject matter but they must show a degree of fear to vote him as one of the most dangerous men on the planet. I personally do not feel comfortable in the knowledge that he is in control of a bevy of weaponry. I felt just as uncomfortable when I thought the Iraqis had them.
What it comes down to is that America are trying to police the globe and are contradicting themselves. They are the bullies of the playground that is planet earth, they can have nukes but nobody else can. Where's the logic in that?
I am sure the more politically minded of you will be offended by my mild understanding of the subject but this is merely the point of view of a regular ordinary guy.
There's only one kind of Bush I like and it isn't George.
First of all I hate people who blatently contradict themselves. This is brought to life perfectly by the president of the United States of America, mr George Bush.
Now after the tradgedy of September 11th, 2 years ago today, the war on terrorism went into play. Now Iraq were told to own up to any weapons of mass destruction they had because they are, in a nutshell, threatened by them. But hold on, America spend billions of dollars each year making nuclear weaponry and in what cause? Surely it is made to be used if needs be and I am sure that if Iraq were clever enough to make nuclear weapons they know the consequences the detonation of one has on the planet.
In a recent internet poll, George Bush was voted as the second most dangerous man on the planet. Now the people who voted werent phychologists or experts on the subject matter but they must show a degree of fear to vote him as one of the most dangerous men on the planet. I personally do not feel comfortable in the knowledge that he is in control of a bevy of weaponry. I felt just as uncomfortable when I thought the Iraqis had them.
What it comes down to is that America are trying to police the globe and are contradicting themselves. They are the bullies of the playground that is planet earth, they can have nukes but nobody else can. Where's the logic in that?
I am sure the more politically minded of you will be offended by my mild understanding of the subject but this is merely the point of view of a regular ordinary guy.
There's only one kind of Bush I like and it isn't George.
Page:
I think the only reason Bush is so dangerous is because he is so stupid. I don't think however he will ever pose a threat with nuclear weapons, as he would not be allowed to use them. After all he is a puppet.
> lalakersrule wrote:
>
>
>
> I agree but then so again are alot of other countries but where are
> all the posts about that? Obviously it doesn't matter if other
> countries are commiting horrible acts, lets just point out
> everything
> America does and put it under a huge microscope while conveniently
> ignoring the others eh?
I forgot to say; if you're that concerned about the lack of balance in the posts, why don't YOU start your own thread about the evil that is perpetrated and perpetuated by other nations? That would surely make more sense, as it would prevent you being accused of dragging other unrelated topics such as this one into threads that are concerning themselves with what America is responsible for. God knows, I'm guilty enough of going off-topic myself. So why not do something to avoid that same criticism?
>
>
>
> I agree but then so again are alot of other countries but where are
> all the posts about that? Obviously it doesn't matter if other
> countries are commiting horrible acts, lets just point out
> everything
> America does and put it under a huge microscope while conveniently
> ignoring the others eh?
I forgot to say; if you're that concerned about the lack of balance in the posts, why don't YOU start your own thread about the evil that is perpetrated and perpetuated by other nations? That would surely make more sense, as it would prevent you being accused of dragging other unrelated topics such as this one into threads that are concerning themselves with what America is responsible for. God knows, I'm guilty enough of going off-topic myself. So why not do something to avoid that same criticism?
lalakersrule wrote:
>
> So as long as it doesn't threaten the world stability we can cause as
> much havoc as we like in other countries?
Heh, whilst I'm tempted to say "that's the way it's always been, why should it change now?", that isn't what I'm driving at. The point is that something which has worldwide implications will always get more attention than something that does not. Does the Chechen war affect the UK directly? Or the slaughter of the Karen people of Burma? Nope, and that's why the media never talks about it.
>
>
> No but try and keep in mind in your zest to point out things that are
> wrong today that they damn sure haven't done it on anywhere near the
> same scale as we europeans have.
That's right, they haven't. So what is your point? I mean, not having done anything bad YET isn't exactly a defence. Especially when the US is making exactly the same mistakes as we did in building our empire.
>
>
> Again, for the record; blinkered anti-americanism is equally as
> ridiculous as blinkered pro-americanism.
>
> *yawn* i've seen this so much with you and Bell, anyone who dares to
> actually stand up for America is suddenly someone who waves old glory
> out in the street and has all the wallpaper and bed clothes in their
> bedroom. This is why i've never bothered to actually air my opinions
> on the matter because i'd just be some pro american in your eyes.
> Well actually i'm not, i know America has it's fault, like any
> nation, and i'll be first to admit them however unlike most of the
> people here i have actually lived in America for a few years so i
> know the people to be probably some of the nicest of the face of the
> planet and have had first hand experience with them instead of the
> usual ignorant opinions of *americans are fat and stupid* that gets
> posted by the people around here. So if i am a bit partial and on the
> Americans side then please forgive me. It's just a shame they have
> such an idiot running their country because people think all
> americans are like him which couldn't be any further from the truth.
> If other countries did the same for our country then the english
> would be a lying race of people who kiss up to anyones ass as long as
> they have power.
What? I'm making the point that one is as bad as the other. Hey look; if you want to have taken that as an insult against yourself I'm afraid that's your problem. As I've said MANY times, I'm pro-American. The only difference between Bell and myself is that I am not led by blind faith; I acknowledge the faults as well as the many strengths of the US. You've lived in the US? Nice one. What makes you assume no-one else here has?
>
>
> I agree but then so again are alot of other countries but where are
> all the posts about that? Obviously it doesn't matter if other
> countries are commiting horrible acts, lets just point out everything
> America does and put it under a huge microscope while conveniently
> ignoring the others eh?
As I say; if events affect world stability then they will come under closer scrutiny. That IS the way the world has always been.
>
> So as long as it doesn't threaten the world stability we can cause as
> much havoc as we like in other countries?
Heh, whilst I'm tempted to say "that's the way it's always been, why should it change now?", that isn't what I'm driving at. The point is that something which has worldwide implications will always get more attention than something that does not. Does the Chechen war affect the UK directly? Or the slaughter of the Karen people of Burma? Nope, and that's why the media never talks about it.
>
>
> No but try and keep in mind in your zest to point out things that are
> wrong today that they damn sure haven't done it on anywhere near the
> same scale as we europeans have.
That's right, they haven't. So what is your point? I mean, not having done anything bad YET isn't exactly a defence. Especially when the US is making exactly the same mistakes as we did in building our empire.
>
>
> Again, for the record; blinkered anti-americanism is equally as
> ridiculous as blinkered pro-americanism.
>
> *yawn* i've seen this so much with you and Bell, anyone who dares to
> actually stand up for America is suddenly someone who waves old glory
> out in the street and has all the wallpaper and bed clothes in their
> bedroom. This is why i've never bothered to actually air my opinions
> on the matter because i'd just be some pro american in your eyes.
> Well actually i'm not, i know America has it's fault, like any
> nation, and i'll be first to admit them however unlike most of the
> people here i have actually lived in America for a few years so i
> know the people to be probably some of the nicest of the face of the
> planet and have had first hand experience with them instead of the
> usual ignorant opinions of *americans are fat and stupid* that gets
> posted by the people around here. So if i am a bit partial and on the
> Americans side then please forgive me. It's just a shame they have
> such an idiot running their country because people think all
> americans are like him which couldn't be any further from the truth.
> If other countries did the same for our country then the english
> would be a lying race of people who kiss up to anyones ass as long as
> they have power.
What? I'm making the point that one is as bad as the other. Hey look; if you want to have taken that as an insult against yourself I'm afraid that's your problem. As I've said MANY times, I'm pro-American. The only difference between Bell and myself is that I am not led by blind faith; I acknowledge the faults as well as the many strengths of the US. You've lived in the US? Nice one. What makes you assume no-one else here has?
>
>
> I agree but then so again are alot of other countries but where are
> all the posts about that? Obviously it doesn't matter if other
> countries are commiting horrible acts, lets just point out everything
> America does and put it under a huge microscope while conveniently
> ignoring the others eh?
As I say; if events affect world stability then they will come under closer scrutiny. That IS the way the world has always been.
lalakersrule wrote:
> It's not just America who are doing
> things to suit themselves
Of course it isn't.
Every country in the world is. Everyone goes on about how Blair sucks up to America and Bush, but it's an extremely sensible thing to do. Britain is pretty much safe from attacks, because they have exactly the same policies as America. America's not going to attack us, we are one of their closest allies. No one else is going to attack us because then they will have the wrath of America on them, and if some terrorist was to attack anyone, it would be America. Why have cotton when you can have silk?
Of course America and Britain went for Iraq because of the oil. Many countries are doing much worse things than Iraq and Saddam Hussain are doing (North Korea for one) but they don't have anything that will pay for a war.
It's just a fact of life. People just want what's best for themselves.
> It's not just America who are doing
> things to suit themselves
Of course it isn't.
Every country in the world is. Everyone goes on about how Blair sucks up to America and Bush, but it's an extremely sensible thing to do. Britain is pretty much safe from attacks, because they have exactly the same policies as America. America's not going to attack us, we are one of their closest allies. No one else is going to attack us because then they will have the wrath of America on them, and if some terrorist was to attack anyone, it would be America. Why have cotton when you can have silk?
Of course America and Britain went for Iraq because of the oil. Many countries are doing much worse things than Iraq and Saddam Hussain are doing (North Korea for one) but they don't have anything that will pay for a war.
It's just a fact of life. People just want what's best for themselves.
I do realise that the USA do try and do good things and do have effective proceedures but they seem to think they HAVE to get involved everywhere, just because they have an image to uphold.
It is all well and good America going into a country to stop the a leader bullying their people but arent America doing just that only on a global scale?
It is all well and good America going into a country to stop the a leader bullying their people but arent America doing just that only on a global scale?
Light wrote:
> lalakersrule wrote:
> Light wrote:
>
>
> From the constant barrage of *ooh look what america's got wrong now*
> posts that litter this forum i beg to differ.
>
> So what has been done wrong should be ignored?
Didn't realise i had said that. If they do something wrong then by all means criticise them, my point is it's not just America who do wrong things yet that's all that seems to get pointed out around here.
As I've said; it's
> possible to criticise without demonising. I'll criticise any nation
> that has done wrong in my eyes (and I do!);
Which by all means you can because we live in a democracy and i respect everyones right to an opinion
> I agree but from the attitude i get around here it seems everything
> is America's fault and everything that's wrong with the world today
> is because of America, sorry but that type of opinion is the height
> of ignorance. Sure America some of the time doesn't exactly help
> matters the way they go about things but since when was the rest of
> the world squeaky clean? You think France, Russia and Germany didn't
> want to go into Iraq because they were so concerned about innocents
> dying and that reason alone? If you do you're as ignorant as people
> who think america is land of milk and honey. I'm guessing the fact
> they are owed millions by Iraq and have trade deals with them didn't
> influence their reluctance to act one bit did it? How about pointing
> that out from time to time? It's not just America who are doing
> things to suit themselves
>
> Pointing it out from time to time? I seem to recall I already have;
> I'll even pop the thread I started to do so if you like?
No that's fine but i didn't see about 10 topics all saying virtually the same thing criticising to death the russians, french etc while throwing stereotypical ideas of these nations in which seems to be the norm for anything involving America.
>
> The fact is that Russia's atrocities in Chechnya, much like French
> influence in the horrors that took place in Rwanda, are not a threat
> to world stability. America and the UK's dumb@ss actions in Iraq
> are.
So as long as it doesn't threaten the world stability we can cause as much havoc as we like in other countries?
> totally agree but then again if you look through history America
> still has a long way to go to reaching anywhere near the types of
> thing Europe has done.
>
> True enough; America has yet to instigate gas chambers (as the UK
> did) or invent concentration camps (us again) or wage war on a
> country for the right to keep them addicted to opium (guess who). Do
> you think I should lay off America until they reach a certain level
> of depravity?
No but try and keep in mind in your zest to point out things that are wrong today that they damn sure haven't done it on anywhere near the same scale as we europeans have.
>
> Again, for the record; blinkered anti-americanism is equally as
> ridiculous as blinkered pro-americanism.
*yawn* i've seen this so much with you and Bell, anyone who dares to actually stand up for America is suddenly someone who waves old glory out in the street and has all the wallpaper and bed clothes in their bedroom. This is why i've never bothered to actually air my opinions on the matter because i'd just be some pro american in your eyes. Well actually i'm not, i know America has it's fault, like any nation, and i'll be first to admit them however unlike most of the people here i have actually lived in America for a few years so i know the people to be probably some of the nicest of the face of the planet and have had first hand experience with them instead of the usual ignorant opinions of *americans are fat and stupid* that gets posted by the people around here. So if i am a bit partial and on the Americans side then please forgive me. It's just a shame they have such an idiot running their country because people think all americans are like him which couldn't be any further from the truth. If other countries did the same for our country then the english would be a lying race of people who kiss up to anyones ass as long as they have power.
I'll repost the rant I wrote
> about that very subject if you want me too, but the fact is that
> America is deserving of a hell of a lot of the criticism it currently
> receives.
I agree but then so again are alot of other countries but where are all the posts about that? Obviously it doesn't matter if other countries are commiting horrible acts, lets just point out everything America does and put it under a huge microscope while conveniently ignoring the others eh?
> lalakersrule wrote:
> Light wrote:
>
>
> From the constant barrage of *ooh look what america's got wrong now*
> posts that litter this forum i beg to differ.
>
> So what has been done wrong should be ignored?
Didn't realise i had said that. If they do something wrong then by all means criticise them, my point is it's not just America who do wrong things yet that's all that seems to get pointed out around here.
As I've said; it's
> possible to criticise without demonising. I'll criticise any nation
> that has done wrong in my eyes (and I do!);
Which by all means you can because we live in a democracy and i respect everyones right to an opinion
> I agree but from the attitude i get around here it seems everything
> is America's fault and everything that's wrong with the world today
> is because of America, sorry but that type of opinion is the height
> of ignorance. Sure America some of the time doesn't exactly help
> matters the way they go about things but since when was the rest of
> the world squeaky clean? You think France, Russia and Germany didn't
> want to go into Iraq because they were so concerned about innocents
> dying and that reason alone? If you do you're as ignorant as people
> who think america is land of milk and honey. I'm guessing the fact
> they are owed millions by Iraq and have trade deals with them didn't
> influence their reluctance to act one bit did it? How about pointing
> that out from time to time? It's not just America who are doing
> things to suit themselves
>
> Pointing it out from time to time? I seem to recall I already have;
> I'll even pop the thread I started to do so if you like?
No that's fine but i didn't see about 10 topics all saying virtually the same thing criticising to death the russians, french etc while throwing stereotypical ideas of these nations in which seems to be the norm for anything involving America.
>
> The fact is that Russia's atrocities in Chechnya, much like French
> influence in the horrors that took place in Rwanda, are not a threat
> to world stability. America and the UK's dumb@ss actions in Iraq
> are.
So as long as it doesn't threaten the world stability we can cause as much havoc as we like in other countries?
> totally agree but then again if you look through history America
> still has a long way to go to reaching anywhere near the types of
> thing Europe has done.
>
> True enough; America has yet to instigate gas chambers (as the UK
> did) or invent concentration camps (us again) or wage war on a
> country for the right to keep them addicted to opium (guess who). Do
> you think I should lay off America until they reach a certain level
> of depravity?
No but try and keep in mind in your zest to point out things that are wrong today that they damn sure haven't done it on anywhere near the same scale as we europeans have.
>
> Again, for the record; blinkered anti-americanism is equally as
> ridiculous as blinkered pro-americanism.
*yawn* i've seen this so much with you and Bell, anyone who dares to actually stand up for America is suddenly someone who waves old glory out in the street and has all the wallpaper and bed clothes in their bedroom. This is why i've never bothered to actually air my opinions on the matter because i'd just be some pro american in your eyes. Well actually i'm not, i know America has it's fault, like any nation, and i'll be first to admit them however unlike most of the people here i have actually lived in America for a few years so i know the people to be probably some of the nicest of the face of the planet and have had first hand experience with them instead of the usual ignorant opinions of *americans are fat and stupid* that gets posted by the people around here. So if i am a bit partial and on the Americans side then please forgive me. It's just a shame they have such an idiot running their country because people think all americans are like him which couldn't be any further from the truth. If other countries did the same for our country then the english would be a lying race of people who kiss up to anyones ass as long as they have power.
I'll repost the rant I wrote
> about that very subject if you want me too, but the fact is that
> America is deserving of a hell of a lot of the criticism it currently
> receives.
I agree but then so again are alot of other countries but where are all the posts about that? Obviously it doesn't matter if other countries are commiting horrible acts, lets just point out everything America does and put it under a huge microscope while conveniently ignoring the others eh?
lalakersrule wrote:
> Light wrote:
>
>
> From the constant barrage of *ooh look what america's got wrong now*
> posts that litter this forum i beg to differ.
So what has been done wrong should be ignored? As I've said; it's possible to criticise without demonising. I'll criticise any nation that has done wrong in my eyes (and I do!); if that criticism is misinterpreted as "All Americans are evil"!...well, I'm sorry. But that isn't what I'm saying at all.
>
> I agree but from the attitude i get around here it seems everything
> is America's fault and everything that's wrong with the world today
> is because of America, sorry but that type of opinion is the height
> of ignorance. Sure America some of the time doesn't exactly help
> matters the way they go about things but since when was the rest of
> the world squeaky clean? You think France, Russia and Germany didn't
> want to go into Iraq because they were so concerned about innocents
> dying and that reason alone? If you do you're as ignorant as people
> who think america is land of milk and honey. I'm guessing the fact
> they are owed millions by Iraq and have trade deals with them didn't
> influence their reluctance to act one bit did it? How about pointing
> that out from time to time? It's not just America who are doing
> things to suit themselves
Pointing it out from time to time? I seem to recall I already have; I'll even pop the thread I started to do so if you like?
The fact is that Russia's atrocities in Chechnya, much like French influence in the horrors that took place in Rwanda, are not a threat to world stability. America and the UK's dumb@ss actions in Iraq are.
>
> totally agree but then again if you look through history America
> still has a long way to go to reaching anywhere near the types of
> thing Europe has done.
True enough; America has yet to instigate gas chambers (as the UK did) or invent concentration camps (us again) or wage war on a country for the right to keep them addicted to opium (guess who). Do you think I should lay off America until they reach a certain level of depravity?
Again, for the record; blinkered anti-americanism is equally as ridiculous as blinkered pro-americanism. I'll repost the rant I wrote about that very subject if you want me too, but the fact is that America is deserving of a hell of a lot of the criticism it currently receives.
> Light wrote:
>
>
> From the constant barrage of *ooh look what america's got wrong now*
> posts that litter this forum i beg to differ.
So what has been done wrong should be ignored? As I've said; it's possible to criticise without demonising. I'll criticise any nation that has done wrong in my eyes (and I do!); if that criticism is misinterpreted as "All Americans are evil"!...well, I'm sorry. But that isn't what I'm saying at all.
>
> I agree but from the attitude i get around here it seems everything
> is America's fault and everything that's wrong with the world today
> is because of America, sorry but that type of opinion is the height
> of ignorance. Sure America some of the time doesn't exactly help
> matters the way they go about things but since when was the rest of
> the world squeaky clean? You think France, Russia and Germany didn't
> want to go into Iraq because they were so concerned about innocents
> dying and that reason alone? If you do you're as ignorant as people
> who think america is land of milk and honey. I'm guessing the fact
> they are owed millions by Iraq and have trade deals with them didn't
> influence their reluctance to act one bit did it? How about pointing
> that out from time to time? It's not just America who are doing
> things to suit themselves
Pointing it out from time to time? I seem to recall I already have; I'll even pop the thread I started to do so if you like?
The fact is that Russia's atrocities in Chechnya, much like French influence in the horrors that took place in Rwanda, are not a threat to world stability. America and the UK's dumb@ss actions in Iraq are.
>
> totally agree but then again if you look through history America
> still has a long way to go to reaching anywhere near the types of
> thing Europe has done.
True enough; America has yet to instigate gas chambers (as the UK did) or invent concentration camps (us again) or wage war on a country for the right to keep them addicted to opium (guess who). Do you think I should lay off America until they reach a certain level of depravity?
Again, for the record; blinkered anti-americanism is equally as ridiculous as blinkered pro-americanism. I'll repost the rant I wrote about that very subject if you want me too, but the fact is that America is deserving of a hell of a lot of the criticism it currently receives.
Light wrote:
> Look, no-one is denying that the US does do some good in the world.
From the constant barrage of *ooh look what america's got wrong now* posts that litter this forum i beg to differ.
> But to try and claim that they do what they do for anything other
> than selfish reasons is naivety taken to the point of folly.
I agree but from the attitude i get around here it seems everything is America's fault and everything that's wrong with the world today is because of America, sorry but that type of opinion is the height of ignorance. Sure America some of the time doesn't exactly help matters the way they go about things but since when was the rest of the world squeaky clean? You think France, Russia and Germany didn't want to go into Iraq because they were so concerned about innocents dying and that reason alone? If you do you're as ignorant as people who think america is land of milk and honey. I'm guessing the fact they are owed millions by Iraq and have trade deals with them didn't influence their reluctance to act one bit did it? How about pointing that out from time to time? It's not just America who are doing things to suit themselves
but I'm not so stupid as to pretend that
> America is the land of all that is good and fluffy. To say that it
> is...well, you're turning a blind eye to the evil that the US has
> done and that is just as unrealistic a point of view as saying that
> America has never done anything good.
totally agree but then again if you look through history America still has a long way to go to reaching anywhere near the types of thing Europe has done.
> Look, no-one is denying that the US does do some good in the world.
From the constant barrage of *ooh look what america's got wrong now* posts that litter this forum i beg to differ.
> But to try and claim that they do what they do for anything other
> than selfish reasons is naivety taken to the point of folly.
I agree but from the attitude i get around here it seems everything is America's fault and everything that's wrong with the world today is because of America, sorry but that type of opinion is the height of ignorance. Sure America some of the time doesn't exactly help matters the way they go about things but since when was the rest of the world squeaky clean? You think France, Russia and Germany didn't want to go into Iraq because they were so concerned about innocents dying and that reason alone? If you do you're as ignorant as people who think america is land of milk and honey. I'm guessing the fact they are owed millions by Iraq and have trade deals with them didn't influence their reluctance to act one bit did it? How about pointing that out from time to time? It's not just America who are doing things to suit themselves
but I'm not so stupid as to pretend that
> America is the land of all that is good and fluffy. To say that it
> is...well, you're turning a blind eye to the evil that the US has
> done and that is just as unrealistic a point of view as saying that
> America has never done anything good.
totally agree but then again if you look through history America still has a long way to go to reaching anywhere near the types of thing Europe has done.
Skarra wrote:
> Ah, that's right. I forgot. They don't help anywhere do they. Somalia,
> they never tried anything there. Kosovo, they never went there
> either. Bosnia, no, doidn't go there. HIV and Aids, yep, their doing
> nothing to help combat that either.
Y'know, I've noticed that whenever America is criticised, pro-Americans immediately take the "Oh, so you're saying America has NEVER done anything good then?!" stance. It's possible to criticise something without demonising it you know...
I think the point is that they do more harm than good. Somalia? Well...they acheived not much more than uniting some of the warlords against them. They went in cack-handed and expected everyone to bow down before them. The poor soldiers on the ground suffered due to the arrogance of the american military intelligence,
Kosovo and Bosnia: That was NATO, not the US acting on it's own. And you may remember that the US was reluctant to get involved in even that sordid little affair.
HIV and Aids...hmm...well, as they're (well...US corporations) currently refusing to provide retro-viral drugs at cheap prices to developing nations where AIDS is at it's most widespread, they're not exactly going out of their way to help.
Add to that the US sponsored coup in Iran that placed the Shah in power, followed by the US encouraged counter-coup that blew in their face and led to the theocracy now in place....how about central America, where the US government have given funding to various insurgents and right wing governments, and who's policies toward the people of, for example, Nicaragua included genocide (US sponsored death squads anyone?).
Or maybe we could look at the US support for Karimov, the not-strictly-sane dictator in Uzbekhistan, and a man who's oppressiveness and all-round unpleasantness is being made possible by US dollars. Maybe we could look at the coup in Chile, which led to the deaths of thousands, decades of fearful existence under another dictator, all of which was made possible by America. Have a look at this;
http://www.rimbaud.freeserve.co.uk/dictators.html
to get a flavour of some of the other good and true democrats that America has supported over the years.
Look, no-one is denying that the US does do some good in the world. But to try and claim that they do what they do for anything other than selfish reasons is naivety taken to the point of folly. All nations act in this manner, not just the US. But the US are in a position to abuse their power. I'm optimistic and hope that things will work out in the world, but I'm not so stupid as to pretend that America is the land of all that is good and fluffy. To say that it is...well, you're turning a blind eye to the evil that the US has done and that is just as unrealistic a point of view as saying that America has never done anything good.
> Ah, that's right. I forgot. They don't help anywhere do they. Somalia,
> they never tried anything there. Kosovo, they never went there
> either. Bosnia, no, doidn't go there. HIV and Aids, yep, their doing
> nothing to help combat that either.
Y'know, I've noticed that whenever America is criticised, pro-Americans immediately take the "Oh, so you're saying America has NEVER done anything good then?!" stance. It's possible to criticise something without demonising it you know...
I think the point is that they do more harm than good. Somalia? Well...they acheived not much more than uniting some of the warlords against them. They went in cack-handed and expected everyone to bow down before them. The poor soldiers on the ground suffered due to the arrogance of the american military intelligence,
Kosovo and Bosnia: That was NATO, not the US acting on it's own. And you may remember that the US was reluctant to get involved in even that sordid little affair.
HIV and Aids...hmm...well, as they're (well...US corporations) currently refusing to provide retro-viral drugs at cheap prices to developing nations where AIDS is at it's most widespread, they're not exactly going out of their way to help.
Add to that the US sponsored coup in Iran that placed the Shah in power, followed by the US encouraged counter-coup that blew in their face and led to the theocracy now in place....how about central America, where the US government have given funding to various insurgents and right wing governments, and who's policies toward the people of, for example, Nicaragua included genocide (US sponsored death squads anyone?).
Or maybe we could look at the US support for Karimov, the not-strictly-sane dictator in Uzbekhistan, and a man who's oppressiveness and all-round unpleasantness is being made possible by US dollars. Maybe we could look at the coup in Chile, which led to the deaths of thousands, decades of fearful existence under another dictator, all of which was made possible by America. Have a look at this;
http://www.rimbaud.freeserve.co.uk/dictators.html
to get a flavour of some of the other good and true democrats that America has supported over the years.
Look, no-one is denying that the US does do some good in the world. But to try and claim that they do what they do for anything other than selfish reasons is naivety taken to the point of folly. All nations act in this manner, not just the US. But the US are in a position to abuse their power. I'm optimistic and hope that things will work out in the world, but I'm not so stupid as to pretend that America is the land of all that is good and fluffy. To say that it is...well, you're turning a blind eye to the evil that the US has done and that is just as unrealistic a point of view as saying that America has never done anything good.
Ah, that's right. I forgot. They don't help anywhere do they. Somalia, they never tried anything there. Kosovo, they never went there either. Bosnia, no, doidn't go there. HIV and Aids, yep, their doing nothing to help combat that either.
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