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The Government's personal spending habits are all over the news at the moment (Tesco are probably taking notes to send them advertising) but a lot of it seems to be media hype again.
Everyone in a certain job with requirements to relocate or travel should have expenses paid by their company. The main differences here seem to be that it's tax payer's money and that a few MPs seem to be claiming for more than they should (or for odd things).
This, of course, should come as no surprise. We all realise that some people, given a position of power, will try to sneak through any system in order to get something for nothing, MPs especially.
So the question isn't really whether they should be spending this money (obviously not in many cases reported) but should there really be so much fuss and surprise about what's been going on?
Also, how would you regulate MP's spending?
I'd first give them a budget cap so they can only spend up to an agreed amount, then give them a stricter set of rules across the board so it's fair and above board.
Everyone in a certain job with requirements to relocate or travel should have expenses paid by their company. The main differences here seem to be that it's tax payer's money and that a few MPs seem to be claiming for more than they should (or for odd things).
This, of course, should come as no surprise. We all realise that some people, given a position of power, will try to sneak through any system in order to get something for nothing, MPs especially.
So the question isn't really whether they should be spending this money (obviously not in many cases reported) but should there really be so much fuss and surprise about what's been going on?
Also, how would you regulate MP's spending?
I'd first give them a budget cap so they can only spend up to an agreed amount, then give them a stricter set of rules across the board so it's fair and above board.
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Warhunt wrote:
> To be honest I think your opinion are fairly respected. I'm not
> sure you should back up on what you are saying because Garin
> seems to have taken a disliking to your posts.
Thanks Warhunt (as well as others), I thought I'd stand back as I could feel myself becoming frustrated and didn't want to end up with it becoming a very heated argument.
Garin wrote:
>Hmmm...maybe I should be the forum bully. :-)
I don't think Garin is a bully , I think we just have different ways of responding in the discussion and unfortunately our two ways don't seem to complement each other too well (we've had similar debates in the past).
I generally think the whole situation with the Government is wrong and look forward to see if any improvements are made in the near future.
> To be honest I think your opinion are fairly respected. I'm not
> sure you should back up on what you are saying because Garin
> seems to have taken a disliking to your posts.
Thanks Warhunt (as well as others), I thought I'd stand back as I could feel myself becoming frustrated and didn't want to end up with it becoming a very heated argument.
Garin wrote:
>Hmmm...maybe I should be the forum bully. :-)
I don't think Garin is a bully , I think we just have different ways of responding in the discussion and unfortunately our two ways don't seem to complement each other too well (we've had similar debates in the past).
I generally think the whole situation with the Government is wrong and look forward to see if any improvements are made in the near future.
Claiming for mortgages that have already been paid?
If an employer provides a loan of any kind at a beneficial rate to the employee, that becomes a taxable benefit and therefore the employee pays more tax.
Many years ago, MPs allowed taxpayers tax relief for paying a mortgage.
Currently, you can only claim tax relief on the interest you pay on a mortgage, and as I understand it, that tax relief is only applicable to a property you are buying to use as a rental income - and you get no relief for the mortgage repayments themselves.
So are MPs claiming for mortgage repayments, to which I wont even get tax relief on?
Are they claiming for the interest due on a mortgage, to which I would only get tax relief if I was letting a property?
Or are they claiming for the actual interest, which no one can claim from the public purse?
Or is it something else?
(and remember, tax relief is different to claiming the expense in full)
If an employer provides a loan of any kind at a beneficial rate to the employee, that becomes a taxable benefit and therefore the employee pays more tax.
Many years ago, MPs allowed taxpayers tax relief for paying a mortgage.
Currently, you can only claim tax relief on the interest you pay on a mortgage, and as I understand it, that tax relief is only applicable to a property you are buying to use as a rental income - and you get no relief for the mortgage repayments themselves.
So are MPs claiming for mortgage repayments, to which I wont even get tax relief on?
Are they claiming for the interest due on a mortgage, to which I would only get tax relief if I was letting a property?
Or are they claiming for the actual interest, which no one can claim from the public purse?
Or is it something else?
(and remember, tax relief is different to claiming the expense in full)
I know Garin and his lovely American wife have more than one home, but I don't think MPs need to as well. Prices in London are high enough as it is. Do they really need a second home that is empty the majority of the time? I think they should do what they have in Australia, give the MPs a nice apartment block where they can live with their family if they need to and when they quit being an MP, they hand back the apartment. How does that sound?
Again I have to disagree with Garin. How can anyone feel they can claim £8000 of tax payers money to buy bookcases 2 months before they retire.
We all know what has been going on, the MPs had this sweet thing going on and quite a few milked it as much as they could. Not all but some. They tried to stop this information from coming out, but when it did the public realised exactly what some of their money was going towards and they didnt like it one bit.
I don't know about Garin, but I think the Speaker should step down and admit that he is partly responsible for all this mess.
As for Gordon Brown, he's an absolute joke. I can't wait to get rid of him at the next election. I just hope people go out and vote, show your displeasure by voting not by avoiding the vote. That's as bad as voting for the BNP and nobody wants to see winning seats do they Garin?
We all know what has been going on, the MPs had this sweet thing going on and quite a few milked it as much as they could. Not all but some. They tried to stop this information from coming out, but when it did the public realised exactly what some of their money was going towards and they didnt like it one bit.
I don't know about Garin, but I think the Speaker should step down and admit that he is partly responsible for all this mess.
As for Gordon Brown, he's an absolute joke. I can't wait to get rid of him at the next election. I just hope people go out and vote, show your displeasure by voting not by avoiding the vote. That's as bad as voting for the BNP and nobody wants to see winning seats do they Garin?
Getting abit heated in here. Everyone take a chill pill, kick back, watch abit of TV and relax ;D
Well said Warhunt,
but give em all a fair trial first before throwing the guilty in jail and broadcast their trials LIVE on BBC Parliament.
but give em all a fair trial first before throwing the guilty in jail and broadcast their trials LIVE on BBC Parliament.
hippyman wrote:
> Garin wrote:
> You'd hope an MP would have something better to do than post on
> some obscure internet forum.
>
> Right answer!
>
> I don't actually claim travel expenses myself, even though I am
> entitled to them. Too much hassle.
>
> But as I can't seem to give my opinion without being
> overly-criticised for it, I shall leave this discussion as it
> stands.
To be honest I think your opinion are fairly respected. I'm not sure you should back up on what you are saying because Garin seems to have taken a disliking to your posts.
I'm inclined to agree with you here, although disagree with others. They should all be thrown in jail :D
> Garin wrote:
> You'd hope an MP would have something better to do than post on
> some obscure internet forum.
>
> Right answer!
>
> I don't actually claim travel expenses myself, even though I am
> entitled to them. Too much hassle.
>
> But as I can't seem to give my opinion without being
> overly-criticised for it, I shall leave this discussion as it
> stands.
To be honest I think your opinion are fairly respected. I'm not sure you should back up on what you are saying because Garin seems to have taken a disliking to your posts.
I'm inclined to agree with you here, although disagree with others. They should all be thrown in jail :D
lol, SECOND HOMES, TRAVEL EXPENSES, lol
They are just perks of the job, but should all be within reason and we all know that some will use that perk to their advantage while others disagree, It's about £11,000 claims for mortages that don't exsist, pocketing £13,000 of stamp duty when selling the second home we have provided them with, right down to buying personal items ranging from plasma tv's to horse muck.
Fraud is FRAUD, Any MP who has claimed for any personel items or used these rules for making personel profit should be delt with in the same way as we would be. ARRESTED ON SUSPICION OF FRAUD and of cause, GIVEN A FAIR TRIAL with random members of the public as their jury!
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I'm sorry to read your last posting Hippyman, everyone is entitled to have and express their opinion and that opinion will always be respected and accepted by me even if i don't agree, Keep posting Hippyman, because your postings along with all others have valid points and i'm sure none of them were ment as a personal attack.
What ever our personal views are on second homes and travel expenses, some of these claims need to be dealt with within the laws of this land, that goes for claims made by MP's right down to district councilors and anyone else for that matter, cos i'm sick of working for a living and paying my way while others do nothing in turn for a better life.
To be honest i can't think of 1 reason why i should remain a honest working class person. Can any of you?
They are just perks of the job, but should all be within reason and we all know that some will use that perk to their advantage while others disagree, It's about £11,000 claims for mortages that don't exsist, pocketing £13,000 of stamp duty when selling the second home we have provided them with, right down to buying personal items ranging from plasma tv's to horse muck.
Fraud is FRAUD, Any MP who has claimed for any personel items or used these rules for making personel profit should be delt with in the same way as we would be. ARRESTED ON SUSPICION OF FRAUD and of cause, GIVEN A FAIR TRIAL with random members of the public as their jury!
---------- -----------
I'm sorry to read your last posting Hippyman, everyone is entitled to have and express their opinion and that opinion will always be respected and accepted by me even if i don't agree, Keep posting Hippyman, because your postings along with all others have valid points and i'm sure none of them were ment as a personal attack.
What ever our personal views are on second homes and travel expenses, some of these claims need to be dealt with within the laws of this land, that goes for claims made by MP's right down to district councilors and anyone else for that matter, cos i'm sick of working for a living and paying my way while others do nothing in turn for a better life.
To be honest i can't think of 1 reason why i should remain a honest working class person. Can any of you?
The distinction between public and private sector is that the private sector just answers to shareholders - The only goal is to make more money, and any expenses come out of their bottom line. It doesn't cost the taxpayer much if anything (I presume the business can claim back VAT or get some other form of tax relief).
However, expenses for MPs are paid for by the general populous. Not only that, but MPs will always stand for election insisting they are standing because they want to make a difference, help people, stand up for what they beleive in. This is in contrast to most people who readily admit they're only in their job to pay the bills - granted you're unlikely to get elected on a "I need the money!" ticket, but the fact is, these apparent ideals which implied they're not "in it for the money" are shot through given the current scandal - they're paid a generous wage and they're supposedly doing what they want to by making a difference, which should be enough (along with moderate expenses for things which are genuinely required by their job).
In my opinion people don't begrudge the private sector their own expenses not just because they're not paid through "our" taxes, but also because the private sector in general never pretend to be in it for anything but the money. The bankers bonus outrage may well have been justified given the banking sectors failings, but no-one was under the illusion that bankers were there for some great moral purpose.
However, expenses for MPs are paid for by the general populous. Not only that, but MPs will always stand for election insisting they are standing because they want to make a difference, help people, stand up for what they beleive in. This is in contrast to most people who readily admit they're only in their job to pay the bills - granted you're unlikely to get elected on a "I need the money!" ticket, but the fact is, these apparent ideals which implied they're not "in it for the money" are shot through given the current scandal - they're paid a generous wage and they're supposedly doing what they want to by making a difference, which should be enough (along with moderate expenses for things which are genuinely required by their job).
In my opinion people don't begrudge the private sector their own expenses not just because they're not paid through "our" taxes, but also because the private sector in general never pretend to be in it for anything but the money. The bankers bonus outrage may well have been justified given the banking sectors failings, but no-one was under the illusion that bankers were there for some great moral purpose.
Garin wrote:
> Hmmm...maybe I should be the forum bully. :-)
Possibly, but I think you have gone a little too far on the 'nit-picking front'.
> Out of curiosity, are you an MP Garin?
Garin wrote:
You'd hope an MP would have something better to do than post on some obscure internet forum.
Perhaps not from what has been published recently - how many MP's 'job loads' are you aware of on a daily or weekly basis?
And perhaps, like an MP, you are quite dismissive of the common , boring populus that you serve to make such a comment as that...while you screw the system for as much as you can knowing that, uptil now, you'd get away with it!
Travel and 'families' seems to have been an earlier upset. If I'm asked to travel away from the workplace to fulfil my duties, I am provided with a car and hotel accomodation, if it requires me to stay overnight. My family isn't invited along thank god....I don't think they would come anyway:-) I also work for a private sector company, who are trying hard to win awards etc to become an 'employer of choice' by 2012. No chance, not even by 2052! Why, because the management are brother chip to MPs - and what a good lesson they are getting at present:-) But perhaps this will cause some change....................
Stick with it HM
> Hmmm...maybe I should be the forum bully. :-)
Possibly, but I think you have gone a little too far on the 'nit-picking front'.
> Out of curiosity, are you an MP Garin?
Garin wrote:
You'd hope an MP would have something better to do than post on some obscure internet forum.
Perhaps not from what has been published recently - how many MP's 'job loads' are you aware of on a daily or weekly basis?
And perhaps, like an MP, you are quite dismissive of the common , boring populus that you serve to make such a comment as that...while you screw the system for as much as you can knowing that, uptil now, you'd get away with it!
Travel and 'families' seems to have been an earlier upset. If I'm asked to travel away from the workplace to fulfil my duties, I am provided with a car and hotel accomodation, if it requires me to stay overnight. My family isn't invited along thank god....I don't think they would come anyway:-) I also work for a private sector company, who are trying hard to win awards etc to become an 'employer of choice' by 2012. No chance, not even by 2052! Why, because the management are brother chip to MPs - and what a good lesson they are getting at present:-) But perhaps this will cause some change....................
Stick with it HM
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