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Very recently, I found myself arguing with a friend about rape laws in the UK. I found this rather strange, as usually most arguments about rape laws tend to go something like along the following lines:
"Rape laws aren't really good enough as they stand; too many men are getting away with rape and too many women are suffering as a result"
'Yeah, you're right there'
And that's where it usually ends. This time however, it was pointed out quite forcibly to me that saying things are unfair as they stand isn't really good enough. If we know it's unfair, and if everyone seems to accept that, then why are there still such low conviction rates for rape, and why is this crime still so prevalent? Do we acknowledge the seriousness of the problem? Are we willing to something beyond talking about it? Or is this just proof that we live in a mans world; men are always the perpetrators, and suffer rape far less often than women and so are less inclined to do anything about the problem.
One of the biggest problems is that rape is a crime that remains hidden. We occasionally hear of situations in some Islamic cultures where rape is considered a matter of shame for the victim and her family. If you're anything like as condescending as I am, you may find yourself shaking your head in bewilderment that any society could consider rape to be the fault of the victim. You may even start to feel faintly superior as you live in a country where rapists are widely and rightly regarded with contempt. Well, much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, as things stand the UK is equally as bad in it's treatment of victims of rape.
Of the women whom I've met and befriended in the last 10 or so years, roughly 1 in 10 of them has told me that they have been raped or sexually assaulted. None of their attackers were convicted of any crime, or even arrested for it. And that is just the women who have admitted to being raped. Who knows how many more of my friends keep silent about it? Scary, isn't it?
Personally, I find it absolutely horrifying that someone can be raped in this country with seeming impunity. Either a few men have a voracious appetite for forced sex, or there are a lot more inadequate little scumbags around than we'd like to admit to.
A common retort to the lack of rape convictions is "Well, why don't more women go to the police?" My question is, why should they? After all, of those cases that actually make it as far as court, less than 10% result in a conviction and sentences can be as low as 180 hours community service. Can you imagine that? Going through the horror of reliving being raped, with the man who did it sat a few metres away from you, and an arrogant, wig wearing git tries to make you feel like the Wh0re of Babylon for having had sex with more than one man in your whole life? And then, after having got through the judicial ordeal, to then see the man guilty of raping you walking from the court having received no more than a slapped wrist? It doesn't exactly encourage women to come forward and report the crime, does it?
I should point out that my line of argument at this point in the debate with my friend was something like "Well, yes things are bad right now. But they will change. I admit, they'll probably change slowly because the legal process always grinds along, but so many people of our generation and below realise how horrendous the crime of rape is, and so convictions will increase". My friend’s response was "How the hell do you know that? What if it never changes?".
Though I didn't think it at the time, I'm starting to wonder whether she had a point. If anything, rape convictions are falling. A small part (a VERY small part) of the blame must be attributed to the stunningly idiotic women who falsely accuse someone of rape (Nadine Milroy-Sloane, come on down!). They don't exactly help in encourage women to come forward and report rape. But the vast majority of the problem would seem to lie in society's attitude toward women.
For example, a woman's sexual history can be legitimately raised by the defence in a rape trial. What that means in practice is that if a woman has been anything less than a saintly virgin, it will be implied that she is no better than a ladywhore who probably wanted it anyway, and is now spitefully trying to ruin a mans life. Basically, the underlying theme of many of these rape defences seems to be that a promiscuous woman cannot be raped, as she is not capable of not consenting to sex. The even more sinister unspoken thought behind this is "And even if she was raped, she deserved it for being such a slapper".
Now the reason that this sort of defence is allowed to succeed so often is that the upper echelons of the judiciary (judges etc) are old and old fashioned in their view of women. That anachronistic view of the world is exploited by barristers to a rapist’s advantage. So, in theory, as new judges replace the old ones, we should start to see the end of that attitude. But will we really? After all, most of us still tend to regard promiscuous women with...well, if not scorn then we certainly think rather less of them than we would if they are not promiscuous. And that is a ridiculous way to view women. And what is more, people tend only to act in matters that concern them directly. Male rape is a rarity, and most of society's movers and shakers (and, most importantly, legislators) are men. Why should they worry about a change in rape laws, or an increase in convictions, when it isn't going to win them the next election? It tends to suggest that my initial assessment, that change will happen slowly, was wide of the mark. Change will still happen, but a lot slower than anyone apart from a rapist would like it to be.
More than anything, I would say that increased respect for women is the only way to ensure rape becomes a rarely committed (and then, punished in draconian fashion) crime. We need, as a society, to stop classifying women as either virgins or available orifices with no allowance for anything else. Unless we do, 1 in 10 women will continue to be raped, and only 1 in 10 rapists will suffer any degree of punishment. I defy anyone to tell me that that is a satisfactory state of affairs.
"Rape laws aren't really good enough as they stand; too many men are getting away with rape and too many women are suffering as a result"
'Yeah, you're right there'
And that's where it usually ends. This time however, it was pointed out quite forcibly to me that saying things are unfair as they stand isn't really good enough. If we know it's unfair, and if everyone seems to accept that, then why are there still such low conviction rates for rape, and why is this crime still so prevalent? Do we acknowledge the seriousness of the problem? Are we willing to something beyond talking about it? Or is this just proof that we live in a mans world; men are always the perpetrators, and suffer rape far less often than women and so are less inclined to do anything about the problem.
One of the biggest problems is that rape is a crime that remains hidden. We occasionally hear of situations in some Islamic cultures where rape is considered a matter of shame for the victim and her family. If you're anything like as condescending as I am, you may find yourself shaking your head in bewilderment that any society could consider rape to be the fault of the victim. You may even start to feel faintly superior as you live in a country where rapists are widely and rightly regarded with contempt. Well, much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, as things stand the UK is equally as bad in it's treatment of victims of rape.
Of the women whom I've met and befriended in the last 10 or so years, roughly 1 in 10 of them has told me that they have been raped or sexually assaulted. None of their attackers were convicted of any crime, or even arrested for it. And that is just the women who have admitted to being raped. Who knows how many more of my friends keep silent about it? Scary, isn't it?
Personally, I find it absolutely horrifying that someone can be raped in this country with seeming impunity. Either a few men have a voracious appetite for forced sex, or there are a lot more inadequate little scumbags around than we'd like to admit to.
A common retort to the lack of rape convictions is "Well, why don't more women go to the police?" My question is, why should they? After all, of those cases that actually make it as far as court, less than 10% result in a conviction and sentences can be as low as 180 hours community service. Can you imagine that? Going through the horror of reliving being raped, with the man who did it sat a few metres away from you, and an arrogant, wig wearing git tries to make you feel like the Wh0re of Babylon for having had sex with more than one man in your whole life? And then, after having got through the judicial ordeal, to then see the man guilty of raping you walking from the court having received no more than a slapped wrist? It doesn't exactly encourage women to come forward and report the crime, does it?
I should point out that my line of argument at this point in the debate with my friend was something like "Well, yes things are bad right now. But they will change. I admit, they'll probably change slowly because the legal process always grinds along, but so many people of our generation and below realise how horrendous the crime of rape is, and so convictions will increase". My friend’s response was "How the hell do you know that? What if it never changes?".
Though I didn't think it at the time, I'm starting to wonder whether she had a point. If anything, rape convictions are falling. A small part (a VERY small part) of the blame must be attributed to the stunningly idiotic women who falsely accuse someone of rape (Nadine Milroy-Sloane, come on down!). They don't exactly help in encourage women to come forward and report rape. But the vast majority of the problem would seem to lie in society's attitude toward women.
For example, a woman's sexual history can be legitimately raised by the defence in a rape trial. What that means in practice is that if a woman has been anything less than a saintly virgin, it will be implied that she is no better than a ladywhore who probably wanted it anyway, and is now spitefully trying to ruin a mans life. Basically, the underlying theme of many of these rape defences seems to be that a promiscuous woman cannot be raped, as she is not capable of not consenting to sex. The even more sinister unspoken thought behind this is "And even if she was raped, she deserved it for being such a slapper".
Now the reason that this sort of defence is allowed to succeed so often is that the upper echelons of the judiciary (judges etc) are old and old fashioned in their view of women. That anachronistic view of the world is exploited by barristers to a rapist’s advantage. So, in theory, as new judges replace the old ones, we should start to see the end of that attitude. But will we really? After all, most of us still tend to regard promiscuous women with...well, if not scorn then we certainly think rather less of them than we would if they are not promiscuous. And that is a ridiculous way to view women. And what is more, people tend only to act in matters that concern them directly. Male rape is a rarity, and most of society's movers and shakers (and, most importantly, legislators) are men. Why should they worry about a change in rape laws, or an increase in convictions, when it isn't going to win them the next election? It tends to suggest that my initial assessment, that change will happen slowly, was wide of the mark. Change will still happen, but a lot slower than anyone apart from a rapist would like it to be.
More than anything, I would say that increased respect for women is the only way to ensure rape becomes a rarely committed (and then, punished in draconian fashion) crime. We need, as a society, to stop classifying women as either virgins or available orifices with no allowance for anything else. Unless we do, 1 in 10 women will continue to be raped, and only 1 in 10 rapists will suffer any degree of punishment. I defy anyone to tell me that that is a satisfactory state of affairs.
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Controversial WickedWare, I no many folk who would disagree with you but I don't. Fact is Affirmative Action and pr-discrimination have helped women further themselves. Labour in the past in some areas imposed women only list for the local members picking candidates.
Yes sentences are way too short. In the past week I was a high court witness to an armed robbery. The accused (I don't know yet if they convicted him) had hit the place a few years back and got jailed for 7 years. Got out on parole after 3, went back to the same shop and hit twice in the space of 2 weeks.
Might get 10 years this time and be out after 5. But thats not justice. Sentences should be longer, and they should be fully served. And for things like the recent Tony Martin case, well if the police can not protect us then we should be allowed to protect ourselves. It a burglar gets hurt or killed whilst breaking into and tresspassing on other peoples property then tough. They should not have rights whilst breaking the law.
Yes sentences are way too short. In the past week I was a high court witness to an armed robbery. The accused (I don't know yet if they convicted him) had hit the place a few years back and got jailed for 7 years. Got out on parole after 3, went back to the same shop and hit twice in the space of 2 weeks.
Might get 10 years this time and be out after 5. But thats not justice. Sentences should be longer, and they should be fully served. And for things like the recent Tony Martin case, well if the police can not protect us then we should be allowed to protect ourselves. It a burglar gets hurt or killed whilst breaking into and tresspassing on other peoples property then tough. They should not have rights whilst breaking the law.
I'm a man, and of course it's a mans' world. You only have to look around for a second and all the top places are dominated by men. The House of Parliament is like 90% men and 10% woman, and even the woman there have been specially chosen. And I know the world is crapped up because of this but that's the way things are.
The fact is, most sentences are said to be lenient. Take you life for example. I could find out where you live then kill you, and if I got caught I would just get eight years on good behaviour. Just eight years served for making you no longer exist. It's true that rape offenders get crap sentences, but so do murderers and burglars, that's partly because us men make the world go round. The courts aren't sexist, they have just been touched by the hand of man like everything else. And that change of laws your waiting for will take an age to happen and probaly wont happen in your lifetime.
About this death sentence thing someone was talking about. There is no crime imaginable that gets the death sentence in the UK. Decapitating the queen, nuking Bradford. Nothing.
The fact is, most sentences are said to be lenient. Take you life for example. I could find out where you live then kill you, and if I got caught I would just get eight years on good behaviour. Just eight years served for making you no longer exist. It's true that rape offenders get crap sentences, but so do murderers and burglars, that's partly because us men make the world go round. The courts aren't sexist, they have just been touched by the hand of man like everything else. And that change of laws your waiting for will take an age to happen and probaly wont happen in your lifetime.
About this death sentence thing someone was talking about. There is no crime imaginable that gets the death sentence in the UK. Decapitating the queen, nuking Bradford. Nothing.
Blank wrote:
> Anyway, I don't think having to relive the incident should be very
> painful - if I report a stolen object, it might get taken to court and
> I'll have to relive it. If the woman involved realises it's just sex,
> no matter who it's with, and that's the reason we're all here in the
> first place, then it shouldn't be so traumatic.
>
> But a fool proof solution is to look at from the perspective of
> "I'm going to get raped sooner or later, so I might as well enjoy
> it".
There have been, since the beginning of this site, some truly moronic posters turning up on the forums from time to time. And there have been thousands of spectacularly stupid, ill-informed and often illiterate posts.
However, you have still managed to achieve the distinction of writing what must be the most idiotic, pathetic and contemptable post I can ever remember reading on the forums.
It's a shame that i'm a staff member, otherwise this response would have been a lot more 'colourfully' worded.
> Anyway, I don't think having to relive the incident should be very
> painful - if I report a stolen object, it might get taken to court and
> I'll have to relive it. If the woman involved realises it's just sex,
> no matter who it's with, and that's the reason we're all here in the
> first place, then it shouldn't be so traumatic.
>
> But a fool proof solution is to look at from the perspective of
> "I'm going to get raped sooner or later, so I might as well enjoy
> it".
There have been, since the beginning of this site, some truly moronic posters turning up on the forums from time to time. And there have been thousands of spectacularly stupid, ill-informed and often illiterate posts.
However, you have still managed to achieve the distinction of writing what must be the most idiotic, pathetic and contemptable post I can ever remember reading on the forums.
It's a shame that i'm a staff member, otherwise this response would have been a lot more 'colourfully' worded.
... i'm just bummed you can still get death for being a pirate..
that's what i was gonna do for a year after university.. DOH!
:)
that's what i was gonna do for a year after university.. DOH!
:)
Borat Sagdiyev wrote:
>
> somehow the seriousness of your original post has been filtered by
> your ability to marry the act of rape with just about any activity.
Dude, I was making a lighthearted remark! Looks like I'm not the only one with a certain degree of paranoia when it comes to this subject.
>
> somehow the seriousness of your original post has been filtered by
> your ability to marry the act of rape with just about any activity.
Dude, I was making a lighthearted remark! Looks like I'm not the only one with a certain degree of paranoia when it comes to this subject.
Ineedsleep was right when she said rape isn't just sex. In many rape cases the act of rape is more about violence or controlling a woman than about sex. People need to be able to make this distinction.
Hmm. I'd have to say, I'd sooner be raped but alive than murdered.
*Re-reads*
*shudders*
*Re-reads*
*shudders*
I agree. I believe that rape is the worst kind of crime that can be committed against another human being. Where do you get your statistics from? How can you state that male rape is a rarity? If it is traumatic for a women, raped by a man, how bad do you think it would be for a man to be raped by another man? How many men in reality do you think would own up to being a victim of this type of crime.
I absolutely detest rape shown in films or on TV but the only scene from either media I can ever remember is the scene from Deliverance, which I found very shocking
Blank wrote:
> If the woman involved realises it's just sex,
> no matter who it's with, and that's the reason we're all here in the
> first place, then it shouldn't be so traumatic.
You utter moron. Saying sorry in your second post was pointless. If your first post is not meant to say what you really thought you shouldn't have posted any kind of reply. Rape is not just sex and because of the filter I cannot say what I really wish I could have said.
I absolutely detest rape shown in films or on TV but the only scene from either media I can ever remember is the scene from Deliverance, which I found very shocking
Blank wrote:
> If the woman involved realises it's just sex,
> no matter who it's with, and that's the reason we're all here in the
> first place, then it shouldn't be so traumatic.
You utter moron. Saying sorry in your second post was pointless. If your first post is not meant to say what you really thought you shouldn't have posted any kind of reply. Rape is not just sex and because of the filter I cannot say what I really wish I could have said.
Blank wrote:
> I don't know how true this is, and I certainly hold it in some doubt,
> but I was told that if a man is raped by a woman (the usual way, no
> strap-ons) then it cannot legally be classed as rape - as getting an
> erection implies willing. Now that doesn't seem right.
True, it can only be classed as a sexual assault. I get the impression it'd generally be a rather less traumatic experience though.
> Anyway, I don't think having to relive the incident should be very
> painful - if I report a stolen object, it might get taken to court and
> I'll have to relive it. If the woman involved realises it's just sex,
> no matter who it's with, and that's the reason we're all here in the
> first place, then it shouldn't be so traumatic.
>
> But a fool proof solution is to look at from the perspective of
> "I'm going to get raped sooner or later, so I might as well enjoy
> it". That's the view I'm taking at the moment, because I just
> have a feeling I'll be raped sometime.
*Inhales deeply*
Ffft.
I'm not even going to touch that one
:^)
> I don't know how true this is, and I certainly hold it in some doubt,
> but I was told that if a man is raped by a woman (the usual way, no
> strap-ons) then it cannot legally be classed as rape - as getting an
> erection implies willing. Now that doesn't seem right.
True, it can only be classed as a sexual assault. I get the impression it'd generally be a rather less traumatic experience though.
> Anyway, I don't think having to relive the incident should be very
> painful - if I report a stolen object, it might get taken to court and
> I'll have to relive it. If the woman involved realises it's just sex,
> no matter who it's with, and that's the reason we're all here in the
> first place, then it shouldn't be so traumatic.
>
> But a fool proof solution is to look at from the perspective of
> "I'm going to get raped sooner or later, so I might as well enjoy
> it". That's the view I'm taking at the moment, because I just
> have a feeling I'll be raped sometime.
*Inhales deeply*
Ffft.
I'm not even going to touch that one
:^)
Sorry, that post was a bit.....well, you know what I meant. Hopefully.
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