The "Freeola Customer Forum" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Very recently, I found myself arguing with a friend about rape laws in the UK. I found this rather strange, as usually most arguments about rape laws tend to go something like along the following lines:
"Rape laws aren't really good enough as they stand; too many men are getting away with rape and too many women are suffering as a result"
'Yeah, you're right there'
And that's where it usually ends. This time however, it was pointed out quite forcibly to me that saying things are unfair as they stand isn't really good enough. If we know it's unfair, and if everyone seems to accept that, then why are there still such low conviction rates for rape, and why is this crime still so prevalent? Do we acknowledge the seriousness of the problem? Are we willing to something beyond talking about it? Or is this just proof that we live in a mans world; men are always the perpetrators, and suffer rape far less often than women and so are less inclined to do anything about the problem.
One of the biggest problems is that rape is a crime that remains hidden. We occasionally hear of situations in some Islamic cultures where rape is considered a matter of shame for the victim and her family. If you're anything like as condescending as I am, you may find yourself shaking your head in bewilderment that any society could consider rape to be the fault of the victim. You may even start to feel faintly superior as you live in a country where rapists are widely and rightly regarded with contempt. Well, much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, as things stand the UK is equally as bad in it's treatment of victims of rape.
Of the women whom I've met and befriended in the last 10 or so years, roughly 1 in 10 of them has told me that they have been raped or sexually assaulted. None of their attackers were convicted of any crime, or even arrested for it. And that is just the women who have admitted to being raped. Who knows how many more of my friends keep silent about it? Scary, isn't it?
Personally, I find it absolutely horrifying that someone can be raped in this country with seeming impunity. Either a few men have a voracious appetite for forced sex, or there are a lot more inadequate little scumbags around than we'd like to admit to.
A common retort to the lack of rape convictions is "Well, why don't more women go to the police?" My question is, why should they? After all, of those cases that actually make it as far as court, less than 10% result in a conviction and sentences can be as low as 180 hours community service. Can you imagine that? Going through the horror of reliving being raped, with the man who did it sat a few metres away from you, and an arrogant, wig wearing git tries to make you feel like the Wh0re of Babylon for having had sex with more than one man in your whole life? And then, after having got through the judicial ordeal, to then see the man guilty of raping you walking from the court having received no more than a slapped wrist? It doesn't exactly encourage women to come forward and report the crime, does it?
I should point out that my line of argument at this point in the debate with my friend was something like "Well, yes things are bad right now. But they will change. I admit, they'll probably change slowly because the legal process always grinds along, but so many people of our generation and below realise how horrendous the crime of rape is, and so convictions will increase". My friend’s response was "How the hell do you know that? What if it never changes?".
Though I didn't think it at the time, I'm starting to wonder whether she had a point. If anything, rape convictions are falling. A small part (a VERY small part) of the blame must be attributed to the stunningly idiotic women who falsely accuse someone of rape (Nadine Milroy-Sloane, come on down!). They don't exactly help in encourage women to come forward and report rape. But the vast majority of the problem would seem to lie in society's attitude toward women.
For example, a woman's sexual history can be legitimately raised by the defence in a rape trial. What that means in practice is that if a woman has been anything less than a saintly virgin, it will be implied that she is no better than a ladywhore who probably wanted it anyway, and is now spitefully trying to ruin a mans life. Basically, the underlying theme of many of these rape defences seems to be that a promiscuous woman cannot be raped, as she is not capable of not consenting to sex. The even more sinister unspoken thought behind this is "And even if she was raped, she deserved it for being such a slapper".
Now the reason that this sort of defence is allowed to succeed so often is that the upper echelons of the judiciary (judges etc) are old and old fashioned in their view of women. That anachronistic view of the world is exploited by barristers to a rapist’s advantage. So, in theory, as new judges replace the old ones, we should start to see the end of that attitude. But will we really? After all, most of us still tend to regard promiscuous women with...well, if not scorn then we certainly think rather less of them than we would if they are not promiscuous. And that is a ridiculous way to view women. And what is more, people tend only to act in matters that concern them directly. Male rape is a rarity, and most of society's movers and shakers (and, most importantly, legislators) are men. Why should they worry about a change in rape laws, or an increase in convictions, when it isn't going to win them the next election? It tends to suggest that my initial assessment, that change will happen slowly, was wide of the mark. Change will still happen, but a lot slower than anyone apart from a rapist would like it to be.
More than anything, I would say that increased respect for women is the only way to ensure rape becomes a rarely committed (and then, punished in draconian fashion) crime. We need, as a society, to stop classifying women as either virgins or available orifices with no allowance for anything else. Unless we do, 1 in 10 women will continue to be raped, and only 1 in 10 rapists will suffer any degree of punishment. I defy anyone to tell me that that is a satisfactory state of affairs.
"Rape laws aren't really good enough as they stand; too many men are getting away with rape and too many women are suffering as a result"
'Yeah, you're right there'
And that's where it usually ends. This time however, it was pointed out quite forcibly to me that saying things are unfair as they stand isn't really good enough. If we know it's unfair, and if everyone seems to accept that, then why are there still such low conviction rates for rape, and why is this crime still so prevalent? Do we acknowledge the seriousness of the problem? Are we willing to something beyond talking about it? Or is this just proof that we live in a mans world; men are always the perpetrators, and suffer rape far less often than women and so are less inclined to do anything about the problem.
One of the biggest problems is that rape is a crime that remains hidden. We occasionally hear of situations in some Islamic cultures where rape is considered a matter of shame for the victim and her family. If you're anything like as condescending as I am, you may find yourself shaking your head in bewilderment that any society could consider rape to be the fault of the victim. You may even start to feel faintly superior as you live in a country where rapists are widely and rightly regarded with contempt. Well, much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, as things stand the UK is equally as bad in it's treatment of victims of rape.
Of the women whom I've met and befriended in the last 10 or so years, roughly 1 in 10 of them has told me that they have been raped or sexually assaulted. None of their attackers were convicted of any crime, or even arrested for it. And that is just the women who have admitted to being raped. Who knows how many more of my friends keep silent about it? Scary, isn't it?
Personally, I find it absolutely horrifying that someone can be raped in this country with seeming impunity. Either a few men have a voracious appetite for forced sex, or there are a lot more inadequate little scumbags around than we'd like to admit to.
A common retort to the lack of rape convictions is "Well, why don't more women go to the police?" My question is, why should they? After all, of those cases that actually make it as far as court, less than 10% result in a conviction and sentences can be as low as 180 hours community service. Can you imagine that? Going through the horror of reliving being raped, with the man who did it sat a few metres away from you, and an arrogant, wig wearing git tries to make you feel like the Wh0re of Babylon for having had sex with more than one man in your whole life? And then, after having got through the judicial ordeal, to then see the man guilty of raping you walking from the court having received no more than a slapped wrist? It doesn't exactly encourage women to come forward and report the crime, does it?
I should point out that my line of argument at this point in the debate with my friend was something like "Well, yes things are bad right now. But they will change. I admit, they'll probably change slowly because the legal process always grinds along, but so many people of our generation and below realise how horrendous the crime of rape is, and so convictions will increase". My friend’s response was "How the hell do you know that? What if it never changes?".
Though I didn't think it at the time, I'm starting to wonder whether she had a point. If anything, rape convictions are falling. A small part (a VERY small part) of the blame must be attributed to the stunningly idiotic women who falsely accuse someone of rape (Nadine Milroy-Sloane, come on down!). They don't exactly help in encourage women to come forward and report rape. But the vast majority of the problem would seem to lie in society's attitude toward women.
For example, a woman's sexual history can be legitimately raised by the defence in a rape trial. What that means in practice is that if a woman has been anything less than a saintly virgin, it will be implied that she is no better than a ladywhore who probably wanted it anyway, and is now spitefully trying to ruin a mans life. Basically, the underlying theme of many of these rape defences seems to be that a promiscuous woman cannot be raped, as she is not capable of not consenting to sex. The even more sinister unspoken thought behind this is "And even if she was raped, she deserved it for being such a slapper".
Now the reason that this sort of defence is allowed to succeed so often is that the upper echelons of the judiciary (judges etc) are old and old fashioned in their view of women. That anachronistic view of the world is exploited by barristers to a rapist’s advantage. So, in theory, as new judges replace the old ones, we should start to see the end of that attitude. But will we really? After all, most of us still tend to regard promiscuous women with...well, if not scorn then we certainly think rather less of them than we would if they are not promiscuous. And that is a ridiculous way to view women. And what is more, people tend only to act in matters that concern them directly. Male rape is a rarity, and most of society's movers and shakers (and, most importantly, legislators) are men. Why should they worry about a change in rape laws, or an increase in convictions, when it isn't going to win them the next election? It tends to suggest that my initial assessment, that change will happen slowly, was wide of the mark. Change will still happen, but a lot slower than anyone apart from a rapist would like it to be.
More than anything, I would say that increased respect for women is the only way to ensure rape becomes a rarely committed (and then, punished in draconian fashion) crime. We need, as a society, to stop classifying women as either virgins or available orifices with no allowance for anything else. Unless we do, 1 in 10 women will continue to be raped, and only 1 in 10 rapists will suffer any degree of punishment. I defy anyone to tell me that that is a satisfactory state of affairs.
Page:
Ineedsleep wrote:
> I did state that most animals have mating rituals which in turn
> implies that some do not. I am not well versed in animal behaviour
> but believe that some animals can mate for life and will fight to
> protect that mate and not go wandering off to pastures new. This is
> slightly off topic so to get back there - the human being, while still
> an animal, has evolved to take control of it's instinct and therefore
> makes its own decisions. Supposedly.
"Supposedly" being the corect word - we have not, otherwise rape wouldn't happen. It's a prime example.
> Sex is pleasurable.
>
> Rape is not
>
> People want sex.
>
> People do not want to be raped
>
> People want sex badly, and they don't get permission from the other
> side.
>
> So it is okay to take it? This is your justification for the act of
> rape? I want it but no one will give me it so okay I will just take
> it.
I'm sorry, you've completely misinterpretted me. I didn't mean rape is pleasurable for both parties - that would be stupid. Also, I never said it was okay. It is a REASON, not a justification.
> Sex produces offspring.
>
> In this day and age, only to the ignorant, careless or because of an
> informed decision to reproduce.
>
> People only rape because they want sex, there's no other explanation.
> Sex is
> the reason why we have children. I'm thinking more in terms of the big
> picture
> rather than our society.
>
> I thought that society was the big picture. I know - this comment is
> the joke comment again. So I will not 'overreact' but reply with my
> definition of rape.
!
That was my first reaction to what you just said - it was NOT a joke comment. I meant it, our society is not the big picture. Humans have been around longer than our modern society. We have existed as Neanderthals and Cro-magnons (sp?) for thousands of years.
We are still basically these creatures. Pretty much all human behaviour can be explained in terms of their society, of how we used to live. There is one Alpha-male who has power over the other - rape is one way of exerting this power, plus it gives pleasure and passes the genes down to the next generation.
> Only a small percentage of rape is committed against a victim by a
> total stranger. So overall it is not about releasing sexual tension -
> if this is what was being sought you can always go play with yourself
> or invest in a toy.
Sadly, not everyone thinks like you. But then again, if everyone did this we wouldn't last very long.
> A rapist who attacks their victim every night is
> not sexually frustrated.
Not, necessarily frustrated, but it pleasures them and it exerts their power - which also induces pleasure.
> Have you by any chance considered this - some rapists are delighted
> that we produce offspring as they prefer their victims young. Some
> rapists are so delighted that they will even repeatedly rape their own
> offspring. Rape is not just about adults.
>
> Are you telling us that an eigth year old girl or boy thinks that sex
> is pleasureable. That every single child that has been raped or
> sexually abused will grow up with a healthy view to an intimate sexual
> relationship in their adult life. That at such a young age they are
> interested in the fact that sex produces offspring?
See my earlier bit. I never said both sides, and I deliberately said it was an INdirect thing.
> I'm beginning to feel that you keep responding to wind me up. That
> your simpleton view and comments are being posted just to provoke a
> reaction. Congratulations it is working.
Well, I'm not. To me, your views seem very stunted and "simpleton". You can't seem to see outside of the boundaries of today's society and our "rights" and "morals".
Nothing I've said in the last few posts has been a joke. I've missed a few things out and badly phrased it all, yes, I know.
I'm not sure I want to continue this either, because you just can't see where I'm coming from.
> I did state that most animals have mating rituals which in turn
> implies that some do not. I am not well versed in animal behaviour
> but believe that some animals can mate for life and will fight to
> protect that mate and not go wandering off to pastures new. This is
> slightly off topic so to get back there - the human being, while still
> an animal, has evolved to take control of it's instinct and therefore
> makes its own decisions. Supposedly.
"Supposedly" being the corect word - we have not, otherwise rape wouldn't happen. It's a prime example.
> Sex is pleasurable.
>
> Rape is not
>
> People want sex.
>
> People do not want to be raped
>
> People want sex badly, and they don't get permission from the other
> side.
>
> So it is okay to take it? This is your justification for the act of
> rape? I want it but no one will give me it so okay I will just take
> it.
I'm sorry, you've completely misinterpretted me. I didn't mean rape is pleasurable for both parties - that would be stupid. Also, I never said it was okay. It is a REASON, not a justification.
> Sex produces offspring.
>
> In this day and age, only to the ignorant, careless or because of an
> informed decision to reproduce.
>
> People only rape because they want sex, there's no other explanation.
> Sex is
> the reason why we have children. I'm thinking more in terms of the big
> picture
> rather than our society.
>
> I thought that society was the big picture. I know - this comment is
> the joke comment again. So I will not 'overreact' but reply with my
> definition of rape.
!
That was my first reaction to what you just said - it was NOT a joke comment. I meant it, our society is not the big picture. Humans have been around longer than our modern society. We have existed as Neanderthals and Cro-magnons (sp?) for thousands of years.
We are still basically these creatures. Pretty much all human behaviour can be explained in terms of their society, of how we used to live. There is one Alpha-male who has power over the other - rape is one way of exerting this power, plus it gives pleasure and passes the genes down to the next generation.
> Only a small percentage of rape is committed against a victim by a
> total stranger. So overall it is not about releasing sexual tension -
> if this is what was being sought you can always go play with yourself
> or invest in a toy.
Sadly, not everyone thinks like you. But then again, if everyone did this we wouldn't last very long.
> A rapist who attacks their victim every night is
> not sexually frustrated.
Not, necessarily frustrated, but it pleasures them and it exerts their power - which also induces pleasure.
> Have you by any chance considered this - some rapists are delighted
> that we produce offspring as they prefer their victims young. Some
> rapists are so delighted that they will even repeatedly rape their own
> offspring. Rape is not just about adults.
>
> Are you telling us that an eigth year old girl or boy thinks that sex
> is pleasureable. That every single child that has been raped or
> sexually abused will grow up with a healthy view to an intimate sexual
> relationship in their adult life. That at such a young age they are
> interested in the fact that sex produces offspring?
See my earlier bit. I never said both sides, and I deliberately said it was an INdirect thing.
> I'm beginning to feel that you keep responding to wind me up. That
> your simpleton view and comments are being posted just to provoke a
> reaction. Congratulations it is working.
Well, I'm not. To me, your views seem very stunted and "simpleton". You can't seem to see outside of the boundaries of today's society and our "rights" and "morals".
Nothing I've said in the last few posts has been a joke. I've missed a few things out and badly phrased it all, yes, I know.
I'm not sure I want to continue this either, because you just can't see where I'm coming from.
* condensed.
That was a VERY big spelling mistake and not aimed at Light.
That was a VERY big spelling mistake and not aimed at Light.
Damn - it took me over an hour this morning to sort out my reply only to post it and find that Light has posted an condescended version
I feel that firstly I should warn anyone that may read this. other than Blank, that it could be very upsetting.
Blank wrote:
>Not all animals have them, and they are not always adhered to.
I did state that most animals have mating rituals which in turn implies that some do not. I am not well versed in animal behaviour but believe that some animals can mate for life and will fight to protect that mate and not go wandering off to pastures new. This is slightly off topic so to get back there - the human being, while still an animal, has evolved to take control of it's instinct and therefore makes its own decisions. Supposedly.
> I know you said you didn't want to take it further, but indirectly
> rape is the desire to reproduce. Here:
> Sex is pleasurable.
Rape is not
> People want sex.
People do not want to be raped
> People want sex badly, and they don't get permission from the other side.
So it is okay to take it? This is your justification for the act of rape? I want it but no one will give me it so okay I will just take it.
> Sex produces offspring.
In this day and age, only to the ignorant, careless or because of an informed decision to reproduce.
> People only rape because they want sex, there's no other explanation. Sex is
> the reason why we have children. I'm thinking more in terms of the big picture
> rather than our society.
I thought that society was the big picture. I know - this comment is the joke comment again. So I will not 'overreact' but reply with my definition of rape.
Again I state that rape is not just sex. It is a FORCED, violent, degrading act perpetrated against an unwilling victim. It is often about being able to control, mostly through fear or humiliation, other people. Fear / humiliation of repeatedly being raped and being unable to do anything about it. Fear / humiliation of not being able to tell other people because of their reactions. Fear / humiliation of not being able to say anything because of the threatened reprisals. These are just a few. Sometimes it is accepted because victims have been told that this act is okay - this is really how affection is shared.
Only a small percentage of rape is committed against a victim by a total stranger. So overall it is not about releasing sexual tension - if this is what was being sought you can always go play with yourself or invest in a toy. A rapist who attacks their victim every night is not sexually frustrated.
Have you by any chance considered this - some rapists are delighted that we produce offspring as they prefer their victims young. Some rapists are so delighted that they will even repeatedly rape their own offspring. Rape is not just about adults.
Are you telling us that an eigth year old girl or boy thinks that sex is pleasureable. That every single child that has been raped or sexually abused will grow up with a healthy view to an intimate sexual relationship in their adult life. That at such a young age they are interested in the fact that sex produces offspring?
I'm beginning to feel that you keep responding to wind me up. That your simpleton view and comments are being posted just to provoke a reaction. Congratulations it is working.
Blank wrote:
>Not all animals have them, and they are not always adhered to.
I did state that most animals have mating rituals which in turn implies that some do not. I am not well versed in animal behaviour but believe that some animals can mate for life and will fight to protect that mate and not go wandering off to pastures new. This is slightly off topic so to get back there - the human being, while still an animal, has evolved to take control of it's instinct and therefore makes its own decisions. Supposedly.
> I know you said you didn't want to take it further, but indirectly
> rape is the desire to reproduce. Here:
> Sex is pleasurable.
Rape is not
> People want sex.
People do not want to be raped
> People want sex badly, and they don't get permission from the other side.
So it is okay to take it? This is your justification for the act of rape? I want it but no one will give me it so okay I will just take it.
> Sex produces offspring.
In this day and age, only to the ignorant, careless or because of an informed decision to reproduce.
> People only rape because they want sex, there's no other explanation. Sex is
> the reason why we have children. I'm thinking more in terms of the big picture
> rather than our society.
I thought that society was the big picture. I know - this comment is the joke comment again. So I will not 'overreact' but reply with my definition of rape.
Again I state that rape is not just sex. It is a FORCED, violent, degrading act perpetrated against an unwilling victim. It is often about being able to control, mostly through fear or humiliation, other people. Fear / humiliation of repeatedly being raped and being unable to do anything about it. Fear / humiliation of not being able to tell other people because of their reactions. Fear / humiliation of not being able to say anything because of the threatened reprisals. These are just a few. Sometimes it is accepted because victims have been told that this act is okay - this is really how affection is shared.
Only a small percentage of rape is committed against a victim by a total stranger. So overall it is not about releasing sexual tension - if this is what was being sought you can always go play with yourself or invest in a toy. A rapist who attacks their victim every night is not sexually frustrated.
Have you by any chance considered this - some rapists are delighted that we produce offspring as they prefer their victims young. Some rapists are so delighted that they will even repeatedly rape their own offspring. Rape is not just about adults.
Are you telling us that an eigth year old girl or boy thinks that sex is pleasureable. That every single child that has been raped or sexually abused will grow up with a healthy view to an intimate sexual relationship in their adult life. That at such a young age they are interested in the fact that sex produces offspring?
I'm beginning to feel that you keep responding to wind me up. That your simpleton view and comments are being posted just to provoke a reaction. Congratulations it is working.
>
> People only rape because they want sex, there's no other explanation.
> Sex is the reason why we have children. I'm thinking more in terms of
> the big picture rather than our society.
Not the case; many many rapists do it because they want to feel powerful. Rape is a way of dominating another person. In some cases, sex is the least motivation that they have. A lot of rapists are sad little inadequates who are trying to prove to themselves and the world that they aren't nobodies.
Sorry about your Uncle dude. Hope you're ok.
> People only rape because they want sex, there's no other explanation.
> Sex is the reason why we have children. I'm thinking more in terms of
> the big picture rather than our society.
Not the case; many many rapists do it because they want to feel powerful. Rape is a way of dominating another person. In some cases, sex is the least motivation that they have. A lot of rapists are sad little inadequates who are trying to prove to themselves and the world that they aren't nobodies.
Sorry about your Uncle dude. Hope you're ok.
There's a crime worse than rape - paedophillia.
The sentiment wasn't dim, but the wording and explanation was ill thought-out. I hope you know what I meant now.
Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about your uncle.
Secondly:
Blank wrote:
> I don't know you personally so am unable to comment other than to
> say
> I have not previously noticed you posting anything so dim.
>
> It wasn't dim - I've just explained it.
I was actually refering to the first post that set all this off not any of your subsequent posts.
Thirdly:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I'll compose a reply to your arguement later.
Secondly:
Blank wrote:
> I don't know you personally so am unable to comment other than to
> say
> I have not previously noticed you posting anything so dim.
>
> It wasn't dim - I've just explained it.
I was actually refering to the first post that set all this off not any of your subsequent posts.
Thirdly:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I'll compose a reply to your arguement later.
Ineedsleep wrote:
> Most animals do ask for consent - it is called the mating ritual and I
> don't believe that rape is an urge to reproduce. However, I have no
> wish to take this any further but do appreciate your apologies.
Not all animals have them, and they are not always adhered to. I know you said you didn't want to take it further, but indirectly rape is the desire to reproduce. Here:
Sex is pleasurable.
People want sex.
People want sex badly, and they don't get permission from the other side.
Sex produces offspring.
People only rape because they want sex, there's no other explanation. Sex is the reason why we have children. I'm thinking more in terms of the big picture rather than our society.
> I don't know you personally so am unable to comment other than to say
> I have not previously noticed you posting anything so dim.
It wasn't dim - I've just explained it.
> I'm sorry to hear about your uncle and hope you get good news.
Unfortunately not. He died last night.
> Most animals do ask for consent - it is called the mating ritual and I
> don't believe that rape is an urge to reproduce. However, I have no
> wish to take this any further but do appreciate your apologies.
Not all animals have them, and they are not always adhered to. I know you said you didn't want to take it further, but indirectly rape is the desire to reproduce. Here:
Sex is pleasurable.
People want sex.
People want sex badly, and they don't get permission from the other side.
Sex produces offspring.
People only rape because they want sex, there's no other explanation. Sex is the reason why we have children. I'm thinking more in terms of the big picture rather than our society.
> I don't know you personally so am unable to comment other than to say
> I have not previously noticed you posting anything so dim.
It wasn't dim - I've just explained it.
> I'm sorry to hear about your uncle and hope you get good news.
Unfortunately not. He died last night.
And yeah, hope your uncle pulls through dude
Page: