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Tell us how your day was, say hello or just introduce yourself if you're new to the site.
Post edited by Hmmm... on 29/12/2018 at 18:19.
Tell us how your day was, say hello or just introduce yourself if you're new to the site.
Post edited by Hmmm... on 29/12/2018 at 18:19.
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Morning all.
Seems like a right old conversation has been going on here!
I agree that perhaps fireworks should only be sold to an organised group who have applied for a licence, rather than individuals.
I do see where Alfonse is coming from, just because of the way you're dressed or that you have eyebrows that meet in the middle (thanks to Victorian Police guides on criminals for that, look it up, they were the Victorian equivalent of hoodies) doesn't mean you're up to no good.
So having an organised group who have had training and are registered seems fair enough, no discrimination, just the knowledge that they've had training and are legally responsible for any results and therefore answerable if anything happens.
Anyway, we went to the town fireworks display on Thursday and it was far better than anything I could do in my back garden, plus it made money for charity.
Seems like a right old conversation has been going on here!
I agree that perhaps fireworks should only be sold to an organised group who have applied for a licence, rather than individuals.
I do see where Alfonse is coming from, just because of the way you're dressed or that you have eyebrows that meet in the middle (thanks to Victorian Police guides on criminals for that, look it up, they were the Victorian equivalent of hoodies) doesn't mean you're up to no good.
So having an organised group who have had training and are registered seems fair enough, no discrimination, just the knowledge that they've had training and are legally responsible for any results and therefore answerable if anything happens.
Anyway, we went to the town fireworks display on Thursday and it was far better than anything I could do in my back garden, plus it made money for charity.
This all seems to have been blown out of all proportion. All of you can take credit for stating the 'bleeding obvious' but some have implied 'an unacceptable prejudice' because of a perceived domocile.
While this may be true, the buying and selling of fireworks has always been 'under question'.
Years ago we didn't have 'Health and Safety Regulations and Laws', we all had a 'back garden display'.
As children then, we all looked forward to this event with total innocence and belief in why we were 'doing it'.
A few years passed and we grew up, we could buy explosives ourselves....so mayhem reigned.....nothing to do with Guy Fawkes...and so the tale continues....later we discovered that 'explosive making' substances could be bought over the counter at your local Boots.
We did and had a great time doing foolish things with 'home-made explosives'. The Law then stepped in and suggested that 'such activities' wasn't quite cricket! We stopped.
We didn't live in a 'deprived area', we didn't 'fail at school' etc etc but, having related all this....I can fully agree with comments about 'brain not quite being related to actions'.....:-)
While this may be true, the buying and selling of fireworks has always been 'under question'.
Years ago we didn't have 'Health and Safety Regulations and Laws', we all had a 'back garden display'.
As children then, we all looked forward to this event with total innocence and belief in why we were 'doing it'.
A few years passed and we grew up, we could buy explosives ourselves....so mayhem reigned.....nothing to do with Guy Fawkes...and so the tale continues....later we discovered that 'explosive making' substances could be bought over the counter at your local Boots.
We did and had a great time doing foolish things with 'home-made explosives'. The Law then stepped in and suggested that 'such activities' wasn't quite cricket! We stopped.
We didn't live in a 'deprived area', we didn't 'fail at school' etc etc but, having related all this....I can fully agree with comments about 'brain not quite being related to actions'.....:-)
Dragonlance wrote:
Can't see any obvious signs other than data gathering. And for the reason that the thread is gonig no where......
I'll say,9 years and nearly 34,000 posts,this thread is a joke ! :)
Can't see any obvious signs other than data gathering. And for the reason that the thread is gonig no where......
I'll say,9 years and nearly 34,000 posts,this thread is a joke ! :)
Alfonse wrote:
> You suggested that for a group to buy fireworks
Just to clarify, i actually said for a scall to buy fireworks. The term scall coming from scalliwag=a troublemaker. No i would not sell fireworks to a scall, or anybody i suspected of being a scall, because i would be involved in any of their actions as soon as i give them the fireworks. If somebody's death results from they're mischief, then i couldn't sleep at night. I would rather deny someone fireworks because i'm suspicious than be responsible for someone's death.
>they should have done better in schools, and you aren't elevating yourself above a section of society?
And no, by the 'should have done better in school' comment, what i was getting at is that the majority of people who cause the trouble are people who have nothing going for them, either due to fault of their own, or because of unfortunate upbringing, the biggest thing they contribute to society is causing trouble, not just on bonfire night, but throughout the year. I suppose in that way, i do elevate myself above the people who do cause trouble, but not above a generalised group of people who have skinheads or wear hoodies.
> You suggested that for a group to buy fireworks
Just to clarify, i actually said for a scall to buy fireworks. The term scall coming from scalliwag=a troublemaker. No i would not sell fireworks to a scall, or anybody i suspected of being a scall, because i would be involved in any of their actions as soon as i give them the fireworks. If somebody's death results from they're mischief, then i couldn't sleep at night. I would rather deny someone fireworks because i'm suspicious than be responsible for someone's death.
>they should have done better in schools, and you aren't elevating yourself above a section of society?
And no, by the 'should have done better in school' comment, what i was getting at is that the majority of people who cause the trouble are people who have nothing going for them, either due to fault of their own, or because of unfortunate upbringing, the biggest thing they contribute to society is causing trouble, not just on bonfire night, but throughout the year. I suppose in that way, i do elevate myself above the people who do cause trouble, but not above a generalised group of people who have skinheads or wear hoodies.
Can't see any obvious signs other than data gathering. And for the reason that the thread is gonig no where......
Locked.
Nice reply Warhunt...at last:-)
Locked.
Nice reply Warhunt...at last:-)
Sonic Chris wrote:
> Alfonse wrote:
> You guys seem to be content advocating discrimination
> against groups from up there on your high horses.
>
> I think that means that 'we guys' are elevating ourselves above
> the rest of society. I'm not elevating myself at all in society,
> i hate classes in society. What i'm on at is image, because i
> have to say, 100% of the time i've seen youths doing something,
> they've been skinheads with hoodies on. That is completely true.
> We've had car windows smashed in multiple times, all by the same
> group, during one week, there was multiple burgalries on the same
> shop by the same people. Yes, they wore hoodies. And i live in
> one of the 'posher' parts of Liverpool. So forgive me if i'd
> think twice about selling fireworks to people of this image. It's
> not my fault i think this way, it's just judging from personal
> experience, i can't help it.
You suggested that for a group to buy fireworks, they should have done better in schools, and you aren't elevating yourself above a section of society?
Anyway, I'm getting away from my main point. We can't judge whether or not we would like to sell a certain good to a certain section of society based on personal experiences etc. Not only do I find the notion of this offensive, but illogical too. As although we may inflate our own egos by denying people we feel may commit crimes fireworks, this wouldn't stop someone from buying them elsewhere anyway. You aren't doing any good in the world if you endorse this kind of discrimination. You are only causing further damage to broken communities.
> Alfonse wrote:
> You guys seem to be content advocating discrimination
> against groups from up there on your high horses.
>
> I think that means that 'we guys' are elevating ourselves above
> the rest of society. I'm not elevating myself at all in society,
> i hate classes in society. What i'm on at is image, because i
> have to say, 100% of the time i've seen youths doing something,
> they've been skinheads with hoodies on. That is completely true.
> We've had car windows smashed in multiple times, all by the same
> group, during one week, there was multiple burgalries on the same
> shop by the same people. Yes, they wore hoodies. And i live in
> one of the 'posher' parts of Liverpool. So forgive me if i'd
> think twice about selling fireworks to people of this image. It's
> not my fault i think this way, it's just judging from personal
> experience, i can't help it.
You suggested that for a group to buy fireworks, they should have done better in schools, and you aren't elevating yourself above a section of society?
Anyway, I'm getting away from my main point. We can't judge whether or not we would like to sell a certain good to a certain section of society based on personal experiences etc. Not only do I find the notion of this offensive, but illogical too. As although we may inflate our own egos by denying people we feel may commit crimes fireworks, this wouldn't stop someone from buying them elsewhere anyway. You aren't doing any good in the world if you endorse this kind of discrimination. You are only causing further damage to broken communities.
100% agree.
Alfonse wrote:
> I'm not giving them justification. I'm just highlighting the loss
> of community within our society. But hey, you'll find out for
> yourself when one of your kids grows up and is denied fireworks
> by a Warhunt in ASDA.
The loss of community is brought on by the hostile glares and behaviour of said groups of chavs themselves. Prejudice against race/religion/sex/disability is unfounded. But looking at someone with ill intent whilst dressed in clothing that disguises your face, does create the feeling that someone is up to no good. But that can be changed.
And kids aren't sold fireworks at all. Yet kids are setting them off with the intent to harm others, as shown in the BBC links below. So it's obvious that some adults or adult looking kids are buying it for them. Who are these adults? As they're hardly setting the right example to their kids, we can easily assume that they are a grown up version of the kids doing the damage - hence mine, and the others' suspicion of the adult chav buying the fireworks.
And this is why we should just have a blanket ban on selling fireworks bar show organisers... it is clear that having a policy on not selling to anyone 'shifty' is at best vague and at worst targeting groups that would otherwise be fine, were it not for the storekeeper's own prejudices.
> I'm not giving them justification. I'm just highlighting the loss
> of community within our society. But hey, you'll find out for
> yourself when one of your kids grows up and is denied fireworks
> by a Warhunt in ASDA.
The loss of community is brought on by the hostile glares and behaviour of said groups of chavs themselves. Prejudice against race/religion/sex/disability is unfounded. But looking at someone with ill intent whilst dressed in clothing that disguises your face, does create the feeling that someone is up to no good. But that can be changed.
And kids aren't sold fireworks at all. Yet kids are setting them off with the intent to harm others, as shown in the BBC links below. So it's obvious that some adults or adult looking kids are buying it for them. Who are these adults? As they're hardly setting the right example to their kids, we can easily assume that they are a grown up version of the kids doing the damage - hence mine, and the others' suspicion of the adult chav buying the fireworks.
And this is why we should just have a blanket ban on selling fireworks bar show organisers... it is clear that having a policy on not selling to anyone 'shifty' is at best vague and at worst targeting groups that would otherwise be fine, were it not for the storekeeper's own prejudices.
Alfonse wrote:
I'm not giving them justification. I'm just highlighting the loss of community within our society.
Now there's something I do agree with.I live in a small(ish) and I have noticed a big change round here over the last say 10 years and have to say it's generally not been for the better.
Alfonse wrote:
But hey, you'll find out for yourself when one of your kids grows up and is denied fireworks by a Warhunt in ASDA.
TBH Alfonse there are many things I fear about for my daughter (especially for when she gets older),but to be honest that would not rate as one of the worst of my concerns.
I have read through these posts with interest,some very good points have been made on here tonight (some I agree with others not so much).Alfonse's theory is kind of you should never judge a book by its cover and as an obviously intelligent and decent young man he feels its unfair that some people may decide to judge him on the clothes and hairstyles he may choose to adopt.I can sort of subscribe to that line of thinking but sadly I have had experiences which have made me extremely wary of certain groups of individuals.If that is classed as prejudice in anyway then so be it.
Anyway,its been way too heavy on here for my liking this evening.
I'm not giving them justification. I'm just highlighting the loss of community within our society.
Now there's something I do agree with.I live in a small(ish) and I have noticed a big change round here over the last say 10 years and have to say it's generally not been for the better.
Alfonse wrote:
But hey, you'll find out for yourself when one of your kids grows up and is denied fireworks by a Warhunt in ASDA.
TBH Alfonse there are many things I fear about for my daughter (especially for when she gets older),but to be honest that would not rate as one of the worst of my concerns.
I have read through these posts with interest,some very good points have been made on here tonight (some I agree with others not so much).Alfonse's theory is kind of you should never judge a book by its cover and as an obviously intelligent and decent young man he feels its unfair that some people may decide to judge him on the clothes and hairstyles he may choose to adopt.I can sort of subscribe to that line of thinking but sadly I have had experiences which have made me extremely wary of certain groups of individuals.If that is classed as prejudice in anyway then so be it.
Anyway,its been way too heavy on here for my liking this evening.
Alfonse wrote:
> You guys seem to be content advocating discrimination
> against groups from up there on your high horses.
I think that means that 'we guys' are elevating ourselves above the rest of society. I'm not elevating myself at all in society, i hate classes in society. What i'm on at is image, because i have to say, 100% of the time i've seen youths doing something, they've been skinheads with hoodies on. That is completely true. We've had car windows smashed in multiple times, all by the same group, during one week, there was multiple burgalries on the same shop by the same people. Yes, they wore hoodies. And i live in one of the 'posher' parts of Liverpool. So forgive me if i'd think twice about selling fireworks to people of this image. It's not my fault i think this way, it's just judging from personal experience, i can't help it.
> You guys seem to be content advocating discrimination
> against groups from up there on your high horses.
I think that means that 'we guys' are elevating ourselves above the rest of society. I'm not elevating myself at all in society, i hate classes in society. What i'm on at is image, because i have to say, 100% of the time i've seen youths doing something, they've been skinheads with hoodies on. That is completely true. We've had car windows smashed in multiple times, all by the same group, during one week, there was multiple burgalries on the same shop by the same people. Yes, they wore hoodies. And i live in one of the 'posher' parts of Liverpool. So forgive me if i'd think twice about selling fireworks to people of this image. It's not my fault i think this way, it's just judging from personal experience, i can't help it.
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