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"Arguement disproving free will."

Role play.


You choose between coke and fanta. You choose coke. You drink it for five minutes.

If you went back in time five minutes and everything was exactly the same. There is no way you could of chose anything else. No choice= No free will. Everything affects everything.

Think about it.

Role play.


You choose between coke and fanta. You choose coke. You drink it for five minutes.

If you went back in time five minutes and everything was exactly the same. There is no way you could of chose anything else. No choice= No free will. Everything affects everything.

Think about it.

anyone?

Hmm.

I argue that you will never be able to prove that.

You're assuming that the universe is purely deterministic. i.e. that if you set up a system with the same initial conditions as before, it will respond in the same manner.

If you're going to get all scientific, then I throw quantum uncertainty (for the microscopic view) and chaos theory (for the macroscopic view) in as arguments against determinism. Seeing as the human brain works on both levels (electron interaction in synapses following quantum theory, and the vast complexity displaying a level of chaotic behaviour), then no, it's likely that sometimes you'd choose fanta.

Unless you didn't like fizzy orange.

Bear in mind that it is an arguement so there are other sides.

Therefore the debate is: this party proposes that we have no free will.

Yes I am assuming that an experiment inside a vacuum done the same has same results. Universe=vacuum therefore from that arguement, no free will.

True, but I'm arguing my side of the debate by pointing out the flaws in your assumptions, which is what I thought you were supposed to do in a debate.

And universe doesn't = vacuum, there's an invisible soup of quantum particles wazzing it all around the place. Or so I'm reliably informed.

Anyway, the experiment inside the vacuum is all very good for simple first and second order systems, but human consciousness is a bit more a complex beast, I'm sure you'll have to agree.

And anyway, if you put me into a vacuum, I'd be more concerned with my insides being ouside than with which tasty carbonated beverage to quaff. Now THAT'S free will for you.

Human conciousness is complicated, but in the end it all runs down to the odeppyeous theory or whatever by freud.

No offense, but rubbish.

What about orphans, eh? How does Oedipus and Freud apply to them? Eh? Are they therefore not conscious?

Incidentally, here's a link to a game on a friend's site where you can arm-wrestle Freud. Dunno how old you are, but if you're old enough to remember Daley Thompson games, you'll love this...

http://www.matazone.co.uk/arm_wrestling_freud.html

It's as fun as philosophy.

your wrong Sacrosanct. If you went back in time then you'd just be watching yourself drinking coke. Then the future you can grab the fanta and high five yourself. I saw it on Back to the Future.

mikelar wrote:
> your wrong Sacrosanct. If you went back in time then you'd just be
> watching yourself drinking coke. Then the future you can grab the
> fanta and high five yourself. I saw it on Back to the Future.


But what if the future you went back again? Future future (in the past twice) you would get thirsty.