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Right, I found this article over the internet, and apparently it was written "by a UK citizen and published in a British tabloid."
It discusses the issues of immagration, and could be seen as offencive to some people reading. So don't come whining to me, if it does offend you. You have been warned.
I didn't know what to say after I'd read that. I suppose in my own view I agree with what has been said, but I also think that what we are doing is setting an example to all our neighbouring countries. I suppose we can't go down into Iraq, waging war about issues that we ourselves don't appear to understand.
Anyway, I just wanted to see your views on this.
Chaos.
It discusses the issues of immagration, and could be seen as offencive to some people reading. So don't come whining to me, if it does offend you. You have been warned.
IMMIGRANTS.NOT BRITON�S MUST ADAPT.
Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.
However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the politically correct" crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of London being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Britons, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over
Centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and Women who laid down any one of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language! "In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political
slogan.
We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. If St. George's cross offends you, or you don't like �A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".
If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you to come here.
You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.I didn't know what to say after I'd read that. I suppose in my own view I agree with what has been said, but I also think that what we are doing is setting an example to all our neighbouring countries. I suppose we can't go down into Iraq, waging war about issues that we ourselves don't appear to understand.
Anyway, I just wanted to see your views on this.
Chaos.
Page:
Garin wrote:
> pb wrote:
> It's not the flag waving or displaying of public pride in our
> 'culture' that concerns me about that letter. It's the
> assumption that this is a christian country. I bet the person
> who wrote that doesn't even go to church and certainly doesn't
> know their history about the 'many wars that England fought and
> won'. They might learn something they don't like.
>
> The official religion of britain is christianity.
> At the last census, over 70% of the population claimed to be
> christian as opposed to 15% who said they had no religion at
> all. The next biggest religion has under 5% of the population.
> Our culture and laws are heavily influenced by christian
> values.
>
> So I think saying we're a christian country has quite alot of
> basis. A more interesting question might be to ask why its not
> acceptable to say we are one?
Well, it's certainly acceptable to say that the country is based on Christian values. But to say that Men with Christian values fought for this country isn't entirely accurate. And to suggest that if "{our} God offends you" then get out of our country? When many of that 70% are certainly not practicing Christians and the country is mostly based on pagan religions wrapped up in Christian covers. Oh, and it just happens to be a Christianity that England created to suit its own vision, changing culture at the time. So whose to say that other religions are wrong to add to a diverse culture which by it's own history has always been in flux?
> pb wrote:
> It's not the flag waving or displaying of public pride in our
> 'culture' that concerns me about that letter. It's the
> assumption that this is a christian country. I bet the person
> who wrote that doesn't even go to church and certainly doesn't
> know their history about the 'many wars that England fought and
> won'. They might learn something they don't like.
>
> The official religion of britain is christianity.
> At the last census, over 70% of the population claimed to be
> christian as opposed to 15% who said they had no religion at
> all. The next biggest religion has under 5% of the population.
> Our culture and laws are heavily influenced by christian
> values.
>
> So I think saying we're a christian country has quite alot of
> basis. A more interesting question might be to ask why its not
> acceptable to say we are one?
Well, it's certainly acceptable to say that the country is based on Christian values. But to say that Men with Christian values fought for this country isn't entirely accurate. And to suggest that if "{our} God offends you" then get out of our country? When many of that 70% are certainly not practicing Christians and the country is mostly based on pagan religions wrapped up in Christian covers. Oh, and it just happens to be a Christianity that England created to suit its own vision, changing culture at the time. So whose to say that other religions are wrong to add to a diverse culture which by it's own history has always been in flux?
pb wrote:
> It's not the flag waving or displaying of public pride in our
> 'culture' that concerns me about that letter. It's the
> assumption that this is a christian country. I bet the person
> who wrote that doesn't even go to church and certainly doesn't
> know their history about the 'many wars that England fought and
> won'. They might learn something they don't like.
The official religion of britain is christianity.
At the last census, over 70% of the population claimed to be christian as opposed to 15% who said they had no religion at all. The next biggest religion has under 5% of the population.
Our culture and laws are heavily influenced by christian values.
So I think saying we're a christian country has quite alot of basis. A more interesting question might be to ask why its not acceptable to say we are one?
> Yes, the people who come here to live should be observant of the
> culture in that they should stick to the law and learn to
> communicate in English (but not exclusively), but to force a
> relgion that wasn't even ours in the first place?
I dont think the letter is suggesting everybody who comes here has to convert to christianity. However I think its easy to get the impression that the UK is being stripped of its identity in favour of being multi-cultural. The question you have to ask is whether this is a natural change or an enforced one because we're over compensating.
> I can see the problem where the culture of the immigrants is
> wrapped around their religion and their daily way of life.
> Sometimes it does conflict with our own system, but there are
> ways and means of getting along. Jewish people manage and have
> quite happily set up their own kosher shops and formed groups to
> peacefully meet and keep their beliefs and culture alive within
> the English society and no-one complains about them, so why is
> it any different for another group?
Some of it you can put down to a more general problems within the UK I think. We're quite lacking in community spirit these days. I'm often quite perplexed how people can have empathy for eg the palestinians when they no concept of who they are and what their lives are like (I'm not suggesting we shouldnt care before anybody says otherwise). Yet at the same time, they can show no empathy for their neighbours and their own environment when they have so much more in common. Its no wonder to me that people have problems integrating when they clearly arent identifying with their environment.
> It's not the flag waving or displaying of public pride in our
> 'culture' that concerns me about that letter. It's the
> assumption that this is a christian country. I bet the person
> who wrote that doesn't even go to church and certainly doesn't
> know their history about the 'many wars that England fought and
> won'. They might learn something they don't like.
The official religion of britain is christianity.
At the last census, over 70% of the population claimed to be christian as opposed to 15% who said they had no religion at all. The next biggest religion has under 5% of the population.
Our culture and laws are heavily influenced by christian values.
So I think saying we're a christian country has quite alot of basis. A more interesting question might be to ask why its not acceptable to say we are one?
> Yes, the people who come here to live should be observant of the
> culture in that they should stick to the law and learn to
> communicate in English (but not exclusively), but to force a
> relgion that wasn't even ours in the first place?
I dont think the letter is suggesting everybody who comes here has to convert to christianity. However I think its easy to get the impression that the UK is being stripped of its identity in favour of being multi-cultural. The question you have to ask is whether this is a natural change or an enforced one because we're over compensating.
> I can see the problem where the culture of the immigrants is
> wrapped around their religion and their daily way of life.
> Sometimes it does conflict with our own system, but there are
> ways and means of getting along. Jewish people manage and have
> quite happily set up their own kosher shops and formed groups to
> peacefully meet and keep their beliefs and culture alive within
> the English society and no-one complains about them, so why is
> it any different for another group?
Some of it you can put down to a more general problems within the UK I think. We're quite lacking in community spirit these days. I'm often quite perplexed how people can have empathy for eg the palestinians when they no concept of who they are and what their lives are like (I'm not suggesting we shouldnt care before anybody says otherwise). Yet at the same time, they can show no empathy for their neighbours and their own environment when they have so much more in common. Its no wonder to me that people have problems integrating when they clearly arent identifying with their environment.
I think people need to adapt to some extent, the things that really grate for me are, like pb, the Christianity thing, but also the talk of 'our culture'. Despite listing the many things that shaped 'our' culture over centuries, the article just assumes our culture should stop developing, that it's now static, which is completely ridiculous...
And the whole language of the article seems to suggest a closest case of anti-immigrant, anti-europe, anti-aslum seeker, Daily Mail reader...
And the whole language of the article seems to suggest a closest case of anti-immigrant, anti-europe, anti-aslum seeker, Daily Mail reader...
It's not the flag waving or displaying of public pride in our 'culture' that concerns me about that letter. It's the assumption that this is a christian country. I bet the person who wrote that doesn't even go to church and certainly doesn't know their history about the 'many wars that England fought and won'. They might learn something they don't like.
Yes, the people who come here to live should be observant of the culture in that they should stick to the law and learn to communicate in English (but not exclusively), but to force a relgion that wasn't even ours in the first place?
I can see the problem where the culture of the immigrants is wrapped around their religion and their daily way of life. Sometimes it does conflict with our own system, but there are ways and means of getting along. Jewish people manage and have quite happily set up their own kosher shops and formed groups to peacefully meet and keep their beliefs and culture alive within the English society and no-one complains about them, so why is it any different for another group?
Yes, the people who come here to live should be observant of the culture in that they should stick to the law and learn to communicate in English (but not exclusively), but to force a relgion that wasn't even ours in the first place?
I can see the problem where the culture of the immigrants is wrapped around their religion and their daily way of life. Sometimes it does conflict with our own system, but there are ways and means of getting along. Jewish people manage and have quite happily set up their own kosher shops and formed groups to peacefully meet and keep their beliefs and culture alive within the English society and no-one complains about them, so why is it any different for another group?
I think the article is right although the way it's written is a bit blunt.
If I go to another country I respect the people and the culture and don't expect them to change their way of life to accommodate me.
When people choose to come over here they should accept our way of life which involves traditions such as St Georges Day and flying the Union Jack. They are after all in England so what do they expect?
I very much doubt that this happens in the countries they come from and I'm sure they keep up their traditions and culture so why shouldn't we?
I'm patriotic and while I'm all for immigration into the country I don't want us to lose sight of the history and culture of this country.
If I go to another country I respect the people and the culture and don't expect them to change their way of life to accommodate me.
When people choose to come over here they should accept our way of life which involves traditions such as St Georges Day and flying the Union Jack. They are after all in England so what do they expect?
I very much doubt that this happens in the countries they come from and I'm sure they keep up their traditions and culture so why shouldn't we?
I'm patriotic and while I'm all for immigration into the country I don't want us to lose sight of the history and culture of this country.
I think that article is pretty stupid. If it weren't for the swear-word towards the end, I'd assume the paper that printed it was the Daily Mail.
I think patriotism is, for the most part, a ridiculous concept. Just because we are all born in the same broad region, does that really mean we should believe we somehow deserve things better than people born in other regions? And what is 'national identity'? There is no such thing, just a collection of millions of individuals which make up a nation. There's no 'average' which weighs up the views of everyone in the nation to form our 'national identity', the guiding voice of our country.
The article speaks of culture as though it is a static thing. As though we have made our own culture, everyone is happy with it, and it should neither change nor should anyone try to. Culture, without change, is stale, boring, stifling. And, yet again, our culture has been shaped by 'invaders', foreign people coming here and changing things, the most famous example being the Romans.
The idea that our nation is a religious one, and should be plastered with religious slogans in our schools, etc. is offensive to me. I'm no hardline member of another faith, I'm an atheist who believes children shouldn't be forced into a religion. If they find a religion they believe in, fair enough. Our schools should not be thrusting religios slogans and imagery upon the children here.
The statement "We didn't force you to come here" is a ridiculous one. Through our own prosperity in Britain and other rich Western countries, we have left other countries in poverty. To shun all responsibility and run crying when people come to our country looking for better wages to help their families is simply ignorant, and this is ignoring other people coming to our country, for example, asylum seekers, who come here as a refuge to escape death or torture, and for this person to then tell these people to **** off...
I just think the whole article is the same old tripe. Somebody still clinging to the belief that all Brits are nice, law-abiding citizens and it's all these damn immigrants who cause all the crime, claim all the benefits, etc.
To me, it just sounds like the same all rubbish that the Daily Mail and its ilk have been peddling for years.
I think patriotism is, for the most part, a ridiculous concept. Just because we are all born in the same broad region, does that really mean we should believe we somehow deserve things better than people born in other regions? And what is 'national identity'? There is no such thing, just a collection of millions of individuals which make up a nation. There's no 'average' which weighs up the views of everyone in the nation to form our 'national identity', the guiding voice of our country.
The article speaks of culture as though it is a static thing. As though we have made our own culture, everyone is happy with it, and it should neither change nor should anyone try to. Culture, without change, is stale, boring, stifling. And, yet again, our culture has been shaped by 'invaders', foreign people coming here and changing things, the most famous example being the Romans.
The idea that our nation is a religious one, and should be plastered with religious slogans in our schools, etc. is offensive to me. I'm no hardline member of another faith, I'm an atheist who believes children shouldn't be forced into a religion. If they find a religion they believe in, fair enough. Our schools should not be thrusting religios slogans and imagery upon the children here.
The statement "We didn't force you to come here" is a ridiculous one. Through our own prosperity in Britain and other rich Western countries, we have left other countries in poverty. To shun all responsibility and run crying when people come to our country looking for better wages to help their families is simply ignorant, and this is ignoring other people coming to our country, for example, asylum seekers, who come here as a refuge to escape death or torture, and for this person to then tell these people to **** off...
I just think the whole article is the same old tripe. Somebody still clinging to the belief that all Brits are nice, law-abiding citizens and it's all these damn immigrants who cause all the crime, claim all the benefits, etc.
To me, it just sounds like the same all rubbish that the Daily Mail and its ilk have been peddling for years.
Right, I found this article over the internet, and apparently it was written "by a UK citizen and published in a British tabloid."
It discusses the issues of immagration, and could be seen as offencive to some people reading. So don't come whining to me, if it does offend you. You have been warned.
I didn't know what to say after I'd read that. I suppose in my own view I agree with what has been said, but I also think that what we are doing is setting an example to all our neighbouring countries. I suppose we can't go down into Iraq, waging war about issues that we ourselves don't appear to understand.
Anyway, I just wanted to see your views on this.
Chaos.
It discusses the issues of immagration, and could be seen as offencive to some people reading. So don't come whining to me, if it does offend you. You have been warned.
IMMIGRANTS.NOT BRITON�S MUST ADAPT.
Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.
However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the politically correct" crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of London being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Britons, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over
Centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and Women who laid down any one of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language! "In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political
slogan.
We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. If St. George's cross offends you, or you don't like �A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".
If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you to come here.
You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.I didn't know what to say after I'd read that. I suppose in my own view I agree with what has been said, but I also think that what we are doing is setting an example to all our neighbouring countries. I suppose we can't go down into Iraq, waging war about issues that we ourselves don't appear to understand.
Anyway, I just wanted to see your views on this.
Chaos.
Page: