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Now, bible bashers say that God created man "in his own image".
So basically we're made up to look like him.
Please tell me what need Gods ever had for five toes on each foot, nose hair, eyebrows or opposable thumbs?
Our bodies fit our environment well, so it would be fair to say that any God creating us in his/her/its own image would also have originally come from a similar environment.
Would it also follow then, that "God", should he exist, is merely a higher from of intelligence, evolved or enhanced to his poweful state? A being from another planet, millions of years ahead of our own in terms of life, society and technology?
Certainly, a God would have no call for form at all, much less one so obviously designed to exist on solid ground, and not cloudy, spacy heavens. In a time where evolution theory is being put into question by the masterful structure of dna, the possibility of a "grand scheme" as opposed to simple "natural selection" is increasingly more likely to some scientists.
With this in mind, the whole idea of the bible and other religious transcripts is going to come under a lot of scrutiny, and the first thing that falls down for me is man being made in the image of a ground pounding body designed to manipulate small instruments and tools for it's own purposes. If that is what God is, then what purpose do we serve for him?
What is the grand scheme, and what part is mankind to play in it?
Imagine if you will if humans ever evolved to the same sort of status as God. A race of people capable of living in the stars, manipulating entire solar systems to hold only the life which they dictate should be there. Imagine if such humans still hold the competitive grudges that they do today, and God shaped worlds are called to war with each other.
Imagine the God that wins, having shaped an army of intelligent creatures capable of shaping their own weapons. A race which becomes more dangerous with each generation.
Think about it. If God exists, and can see we are destroying a world which is his creation, why does he do nothing? I'll tell you why. Because with everything we destroy, we learn. Not how to fix it, but how we destroyed it. We craft weapons of war, now powerful enough to crack open entire worlds if concentrated enough. It's only a matter of time before we reach to the stars, and then, if this mysterious God in who's form we are crafted indeed exists, we will be drafted into service into whatever designs he has harboured since our very inception as a species.
Personally, I would rather believe that we evolved. It's much less frightening.
So basically we're made up to look like him.
Please tell me what need Gods ever had for five toes on each foot, nose hair, eyebrows or opposable thumbs?
Our bodies fit our environment well, so it would be fair to say that any God creating us in his/her/its own image would also have originally come from a similar environment.
Would it also follow then, that "God", should he exist, is merely a higher from of intelligence, evolved or enhanced to his poweful state? A being from another planet, millions of years ahead of our own in terms of life, society and technology?
Certainly, a God would have no call for form at all, much less one so obviously designed to exist on solid ground, and not cloudy, spacy heavens. In a time where evolution theory is being put into question by the masterful structure of dna, the possibility of a "grand scheme" as opposed to simple "natural selection" is increasingly more likely to some scientists.
With this in mind, the whole idea of the bible and other religious transcripts is going to come under a lot of scrutiny, and the first thing that falls down for me is man being made in the image of a ground pounding body designed to manipulate small instruments and tools for it's own purposes. If that is what God is, then what purpose do we serve for him?
What is the grand scheme, and what part is mankind to play in it?
Imagine if you will if humans ever evolved to the same sort of status as God. A race of people capable of living in the stars, manipulating entire solar systems to hold only the life which they dictate should be there. Imagine if such humans still hold the competitive grudges that they do today, and God shaped worlds are called to war with each other.
Imagine the God that wins, having shaped an army of intelligent creatures capable of shaping their own weapons. A race which becomes more dangerous with each generation.
Think about it. If God exists, and can see we are destroying a world which is his creation, why does he do nothing? I'll tell you why. Because with everything we destroy, we learn. Not how to fix it, but how we destroyed it. We craft weapons of war, now powerful enough to crack open entire worlds if concentrated enough. It's only a matter of time before we reach to the stars, and then, if this mysterious God in who's form we are crafted indeed exists, we will be drafted into service into whatever designs he has harboured since our very inception as a species.
Personally, I would rather believe that we evolved. It's much less frightening.
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Psalm 16
PRELUDE
God speaks. Whoever seeks me finds me. Whoever finds me knows me. Whoever knows me loves me. Whoever loves me I love. Whomever I love I kill.
PSALM OF FORGIVENESS
Why do you hate us with an everlasting scorn? We cry out to you so pained there are those of us who do not survive, yet you remain mute. We believe in you, yet you turn the other cheek to our suffering. How can you carrot so much in front of our hearts as they whither and fall, desecrated, into the gutter; defiled by your silence; writhing with unsung songs. Our blood flows, sparks leap from synapse to synapse, but only to torture us, agonise us, with blood cursed by our minds: knees not only bent but raw and chewed with grit and vinegar and we too become mute, but not with indifference but the pain of abandonment. Endlessly we fight our demons as they flay us, mock us and jeer as they tear the eyes from our heads, powder our bones with jagged teeth and spit us out in hopeful, terrorised bits that struggle to crawl together. In your name. In your f*cking myriad of names, trying to find that ineffable self in or beyond the bloodied and bloody scraps, only to face your impenetrable silence and the drawling, relentless demons who, time after time, tear and shred us, their breath befouled by our putrefying flesh. I’ve looked in your direction. In what direction can I look that is not yours? And have been soothed with beauty, the heaviness of my heart lifted when I hear your song, as a stranger asks can I help you, but always, always, the song turns to screeching derision as the laughing child and smiling rose twist into demons claws and I cannot run, my legs unable to bear the weight of my hollow and tortured body because my knees are ripped and splintered from supplication and you strengthen me just enough to once again face the demons and smell my decayed flesh and dreams on their breath. Oh yes you strengthen me but only so I can once more provide an object to be tortured and yes you lead me, but only to the playground of my tormentors and from time to time I am nailed to the cross to watch as friends are lead by your promises into the arena and I see and hear their torment, all of my being rent from their cries as their flesh is slowly peeled and hear the screams of each tear as it rolls slowly down their bloodied bodies, crying, weeping because their God of love, the source of infinite comfort, has once again abandoned them and mislead them yet again and in my hopelessness, vow to never again trust you, yet even as I do, knowing that you have ordained I will seek you until I find you and am filled with love and strength and reach out and hold your hand to be led back to that arena. The cross dissolves; my friends agony rips my ears and heart, though tortured parts and bits are mute, and I make a vow from the depths of my heart, a declaration from the place within me that goes beyond his body, beyond my soul, beyond my understanding, to never treat my friends the way you do, a vow to never turn my back on them as you do, no matter what the appearance; you may forever abuse your children, but I refuse to pass the abuse on. In and from the depths of my tortured mind and body I will accept a responsibility of the decision to respect life, all life, and to treat life with love and kindness. No God, no. There is no forgiveness for you. But I will forgive the demons, those helpless tools of your assemblage, and love my friends, comfort them, help them find all their separated tortured selves bathe their wounded knees and help them stand with dignity, help them stand on legs with unbent knees and together look the demons in their eyes and love them as they claw our flesh; their teeth splinter our bones for the last time. We are your victims no more and in our innocence shall love ourselves and each other to freedom.
POSTLUDE
I said to the almond tree speak to me of God and the almond tree blossomed
PRELUDE
God speaks. Whoever seeks me finds me. Whoever finds me knows me. Whoever knows me loves me. Whoever loves me I love. Whomever I love I kill.
PSALM OF FORGIVENESS
Why do you hate us with an everlasting scorn? We cry out to you so pained there are those of us who do not survive, yet you remain mute. We believe in you, yet you turn the other cheek to our suffering. How can you carrot so much in front of our hearts as they whither and fall, desecrated, into the gutter; defiled by your silence; writhing with unsung songs. Our blood flows, sparks leap from synapse to synapse, but only to torture us, agonise us, with blood cursed by our minds: knees not only bent but raw and chewed with grit and vinegar and we too become mute, but not with indifference but the pain of abandonment. Endlessly we fight our demons as they flay us, mock us and jeer as they tear the eyes from our heads, powder our bones with jagged teeth and spit us out in hopeful, terrorised bits that struggle to crawl together. In your name. In your f*cking myriad of names, trying to find that ineffable self in or beyond the bloodied and bloody scraps, only to face your impenetrable silence and the drawling, relentless demons who, time after time, tear and shred us, their breath befouled by our putrefying flesh. I’ve looked in your direction. In what direction can I look that is not yours? And have been soothed with beauty, the heaviness of my heart lifted when I hear your song, as a stranger asks can I help you, but always, always, the song turns to screeching derision as the laughing child and smiling rose twist into demons claws and I cannot run, my legs unable to bear the weight of my hollow and tortured body because my knees are ripped and splintered from supplication and you strengthen me just enough to once again face the demons and smell my decayed flesh and dreams on their breath. Oh yes you strengthen me but only so I can once more provide an object to be tortured and yes you lead me, but only to the playground of my tormentors and from time to time I am nailed to the cross to watch as friends are lead by your promises into the arena and I see and hear their torment, all of my being rent from their cries as their flesh is slowly peeled and hear the screams of each tear as it rolls slowly down their bloodied bodies, crying, weeping because their God of love, the source of infinite comfort, has once again abandoned them and mislead them yet again and in my hopelessness, vow to never again trust you, yet even as I do, knowing that you have ordained I will seek you until I find you and am filled with love and strength and reach out and hold your hand to be led back to that arena. The cross dissolves; my friends agony rips my ears and heart, though tortured parts and bits are mute, and I make a vow from the depths of my heart, a declaration from the place within me that goes beyond his body, beyond my soul, beyond my understanding, to never treat my friends the way you do, a vow to never turn my back on them as you do, no matter what the appearance; you may forever abuse your children, but I refuse to pass the abuse on. In and from the depths of my tortured mind and body I will accept a responsibility of the decision to respect life, all life, and to treat life with love and kindness. No God, no. There is no forgiveness for you. But I will forgive the demons, those helpless tools of your assemblage, and love my friends, comfort them, help them find all their separated tortured selves bathe their wounded knees and help them stand with dignity, help them stand on legs with unbent knees and together look the demons in their eyes and love them as they claw our flesh; their teeth splinter our bones for the last time. We are your victims no more and in our innocence shall love ourselves and each other to freedom.
POSTLUDE
I said to the almond tree speak to me of God and the almond tree blossomed
I can see where Flanders is coming from, as surely a God, in the sense that we believe in, would be a larger force than the universe itself, and not a planet-hopping entity. But I think Mr Ripper is saying that this God is only a God in relative terms as he or they are race far more advanced than our own with the power to create new life.
Anyway my question is off topic but I was wondering if anyone could answer it; I know that the universe is apparently still expanding, but what exactly is it expanding into?
Personally I find it difficult to see the possibility of there being a God in something as vast as the universe. The only thing that is omnipresent, and possibly omnipotent, is energy. The best description of God I ever read was in a Hubert Selby short story. It's only short so I'll paste it in as another post.
The point I think it's trying to make is that imagining God in human form creates all sorts of theological problems because you impose on Him the same restrictions of good and evil that humans have. In this way some people try to disprove God's existence by stating that if He is omnipotent He must be able to create a rock too heavy for Himself to lift, which in itself denies him omnipotence. Selby's concluding sentence basically says that God is all around us, in good, in evil, in everything, as an intangible and inconceivable force that can both create rocks too heavy to lift and lift them. In other words God is a lifeforce, an energy, a presence, rather than a being.
Anyway these are just my thoughts, I think Flanders will find the Selby story interesting because if I understood you correctly, you were trying to explain how God was in all of us, and I think this gets close.
Anyway my question is off topic but I was wondering if anyone could answer it; I know that the universe is apparently still expanding, but what exactly is it expanding into?
Personally I find it difficult to see the possibility of there being a God in something as vast as the universe. The only thing that is omnipresent, and possibly omnipotent, is energy. The best description of God I ever read was in a Hubert Selby short story. It's only short so I'll paste it in as another post.
The point I think it's trying to make is that imagining God in human form creates all sorts of theological problems because you impose on Him the same restrictions of good and evil that humans have. In this way some people try to disprove God's existence by stating that if He is omnipotent He must be able to create a rock too heavy for Himself to lift, which in itself denies him omnipotence. Selby's concluding sentence basically says that God is all around us, in good, in evil, in everything, as an intangible and inconceivable force that can both create rocks too heavy to lift and lift them. In other words God is a lifeforce, an energy, a presence, rather than a being.
Anyway these are just my thoughts, I think Flanders will find the Selby story interesting because if I understood you correctly, you were trying to explain how God was in all of us, and I think this gets close.
I saw God the other day.
He was driving through Fen Ditton, near Cambridge.
He was quite big, and had white flowing hair and a big, white beard.
I know it was God and not Father Christmas because Father Christmas doesn't drive a car, and Father Christmas has a much redder, rounder face.
He was driving through Fen Ditton, near Cambridge.
He was quite big, and had white flowing hair and a big, white beard.
I know it was God and not Father Christmas because Father Christmas doesn't drive a car, and Father Christmas has a much redder, rounder face.
when your chest itches, you scratch it.
when your back itches, who will scratch it for you?
when your back itches, who will scratch it for you?
SHEEPY wrote:
> Religion irritates me
Iv'e gathered that over the last few months !
> Religion irritates me
Iv'e gathered that over the last few months !
Religion irritates me
No - we're not alone !!
And not just biblically (sp) either.
If God created life / man on our humble little planet then there is no reason at all why he would not have created life elsewhere.
(Sorry I'm that predictable !)
And not just biblically (sp) either.
If God created life / man on our humble little planet then there is no reason at all why he would not have created life elsewhere.
(Sorry I'm that predictable !)
hey flanders, I expected you'd turn up here.
Whether Gos looks like a man or not, the question of why has he created us is still in need of an answer.
However, it is concievable that if God took 6 days to make the earth, he may now be running around the rest of the universe creating more life, and chances are, we'll never see him again, especially if it takes him 6 days every time, and doubtless a while to travel between solar systems and galaxies.
Even if God did create us, we're on our own now...
Whether Gos looks like a man or not, the question of why has he created us is still in need of an answer.
However, it is concievable that if God took 6 days to make the earth, he may now be running around the rest of the universe creating more life, and chances are, we'll never see him again, especially if it takes him 6 days every time, and doubtless a while to travel between solar systems and galaxies.
Even if God did create us, we're on our own now...
Oh dear !
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