GetDotted Domains

Viewing Thread:
"X-Box or Playstation 2"

The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.

Sat 06/07/02 at 23:04
Regular
Posts: 787
X box with internet ready and games with realistic graphics
playstation 2 with not yet internet but very fast loading and good graphics,
Tue 09/07/02 at 23:44
"High polygon count"
Posts: 15,624
Strafex wrote:
> I thought you were being harsh until I saw what he'd done.

When am I ever harsh?

You bloody idiot! ;-p
Tue 09/07/02 at 23:44
"High polygon count"
Posts: 15,624
Microgarlicbread wrote:
> MGS2 and Medal of Honour aren't PS2 exclusive.

Actually - and just to be pedantic - MGS2 *is* PS2 exclusive.

'MGS2: Substance' is multi-format, but that is not MGS2! :-)
Tue 09/07/02 at 23:15
Regular
Posts: 21,800
Who would have thought such a $hite topic could trigger all these arguments...
Tue 09/07/02 at 22:25
Regular
Posts: 9,848
savatt1668 wrote:

> As for Rogue Leader, yes it looks nice - I owned the game. But its
> nothing that can't be done on the X-Box. The main area it impresses
> are the ship models, after that its just a case of throwing a nice sky
> or space scene in. Play through Hoth and fly low at the ground
> troops, you'll soon find out where the main attention has gone to.

Let me tell you something about Rogue Leader.
It was made from scratch on new hardware within 8 months.

That includes design, concept, programming, testing, THE LOT!
During that time, they even had to devellop their own sound tools.
All rushed within 8 months for the launch.

Halo's been in devellopment for YEARS (on the MAC before the project was switched to the Xbox), hence there's obviously a little bit more to Halo.
Also, Factor 5 said that they didn't have time to take advantage of the Gamecube's TRUE capabilties.

Now although the Xbox probably could easily have handled Rogue Leader, it might not have been done so easily in such a short time. Also, looking at the little ground troops, they're not so bad considering that they're not important and I think that's more down to not having time to make the look absolutely perfect rather than a lack of Gamecube power.


By the way, remember when we were talking about Endor and how many ships were in it, you said no more than 40 at a time.
Well, the in game documentary said that there were over 100 on the screen at once + the big alliance ships (the ones you had to protect from Tie Fighters).

When it looks as good as it does + it runs quickly with a lot happning + the whole thing was rushed within 8 months without time for proper optimisation + Factor 5 say they've barely scratched surface of the Gamecube's capabilties (an exaduration ofcourse but still based on solid fact).

I think that the GC can more than hold it's own against the Xbox when it comes to power! Also, it has Nintendo making games for it too! So there! :-p
Tue 09/07/02 at 22:22
Regular
Posts: 11,875
savatt1668 wrote:
>
>
> Ssssssssshhh, don't tell anyone else this, but I think this is a
> videogame forum, not an English class.

Thats you admitting defeat because you can't compete anymore in the 'big words' game. I've had plenty of arguments with you before, and you've slated people for not using 'big' or clever words, now your being out-classed you putting it down saying it isn't important...hmmm.

As for me taking you as saying
> that Halo is crap, your whole post rips into Microsoft and everything
> about the X-Box in a constant negative way, am I supposed to know that
> under all of it you actually have anything good to say about the game
> ? Again, with you coming accross as totally hostile towards the
> console and its games, why would I want to read a review of Halo by
> you when it seems pretty obvious what you think of it ?

Well thats better than what you do. Sometimes you say another console has a good game or two, but really your just a total X-box fan, you pretend to like all consoles but the X-box is just slightly better for you, when really you just don't want to slate other consoles all the time so you look like a fanboy. At least he's being honest.


>
> Well thats a matter of opinion. A lot of people were happy with the
> likes of Halo, Project Gothem Racing, Dead Or Alive 3 and Jet Set
> Radio Future.

Maybe so, but unfortunatly they're still the only games worth owning (exclusives anyway)



>
> As for Rogue Leader, yes it looks nice - I owned the game. But its
> nothing that can't be done on the X-Box.

Yes but it hasn't been done on the X-box has it?

>
> Why ? Is the PS2 not allowed to be put into this topic ? As for
> ports and original development, original development is great, but you
> need more than that. People get used to names such as Unreal, MGS,
> Couter-Strike, etc. Why do you think Nintendo release new Mario and
> Zelda games constantly ? Cause it sells ! Microsoft can't just
> appear with new games and expect to get peoples attention, its also
> important to get the games that attract players such as the games I
> mentioned. I'm not saying forget original games, far from it, but its
> important to have a contrast between the two. If I remember right,
> the X-Box has something like 314 games on the way.

Yippee-feckin-do. 314 games. Doesn't mean they're gonna be good though does it? 200 of them will probably army games, another 100 will just be crap, that leaves roughly 14 average to good games. And maybe one or two will be original (from SEGA of course).


> I meant outside your little online RPG. You know REAL girls.


You pretty sad and/or desperate to bring personal things like this up in an argument about games
Tue 09/07/02 at 22:06
Regular
"ATAT Supremo"
Posts: 6,238
Actually with me its more Halo, JSRF, DOA3 and PGR, this and that.
Tue 09/07/02 at 22:02
Regular
Posts: 11,875
Ant wrote:
> Mantis wrote:
> Games- Most games are multiplatform, but a few Xbox exclusives look
>
> Bollards. :D
>
> I'm sorry, but games-wise there is no way the X-Box is 'streets ahead'
> of the PS2. If anything it's the opposite.
>
> Here's the first few fantastic games that come to mind on the PS2:
> MGS2, GT3, GTA3, Devil May Cry, Medal Of Honour: Frontline. When
> talking about the PS2, people will come up with games like that.


MGS2 and Medal of Honour aren't PS2 exclusive.


>
> When talking about the X-Box, it's "Halo." And considering
> that Halo's nothing that special anyway, it's not exactly a justified
> argument that the X-Box is 'streets ahead' in terms of games.

I couldn't agree more, all you hear from X-box owners is Halo this and Halo that, they don't seem to have anything else worth mentioning (cue Savatt with list of 'great' X-box games) theres plenty on the PS2 worth talking about (cue Savatt with 'PS2 has been out longer' whine, although it's a fair point), but the GameCube came out after the X-box and you hear Rogue Leader this and Rogue Leader that, then Smash Bros, Pikmin etc. I would say the Gamecube definatly has more (exclusive) titles worth talking about than X-box has easily (not to mention a complete shed load more around August and Christmas).
Tue 09/07/02 at 21:49
Regular
"ATAT Supremo"
Posts: 6,238
Ant wrote:
> And remember everyone, the X-Box COSTS quite a lot more too.

Hows that ? Its £200 and although the DVD playback kit is £30 on top if you want it, theres no need to buy memory cards. Plus to get the same set up as X-Box with the PS2 you'll need to pay out extra for the hard drive.
Tue 09/07/02 at 21:45
Regular
Posts: 9,848
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
> Re-arrange these words to find the number one reason for being a dimbo
> and quoting large messages in their entirity, only to add a few words
> at the bottom:
>
> Count
>
> Word

I thought you were being harsh until I saw what he'd done.

That is rediculous!
Quoting ALL OF THAT FOR ONE COMMENT??
Tue 09/07/02 at 21:44
Regular
"ATAT Supremo"
Posts: 6,238
Pointless Babble wrote:
> Nope, you're not. ;)
> Opinions are what everyone else has posted here, you're reply was that
> of a cocky little snot, who has nought between his ears to actually
> voice an opinion. Hence you made some cockshaw remark of an ignorant
> stance, you have yet to achieve anything other than that, as so far
> your use of fact is sadly lacking. ;)

When you've written tons of posts in reply to fanboys and god knows what else, it becomes boring. I've lost count of the amount of posts that are a few lines long that I've replied to with long posts and quite frankly, its grown tiresome. Hence why I rarely bother doing it constantly anymore. Overall I like any consoles really, theres none that I hate but I come off as some big fan of only the X-Box cause there seems to be a constant situation where I'm defending it. As for my lack of facts, I stand corrected again, MGS: Substance and Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance are obviously not coming out on X-Box and Halo is only doing well because of the name Microsoft and not because a large number of people are enjoying it. Also, seeing as my facts are so wrong, how would you say Sony grabbed their share of the games market seeing as I'm obviously wrong by saying that they attracted a new audience.

> Read kiddo, and while you're at it do your background research, try
> taking a look at my review of Halo. I never said it was crap, I was it
> was a terrible disappointment, and that is exactly what it is.
> WRATH is not for console retail, its an MMORPG being made after a game
> which inspired it was axed, but apparently again you are sadly lacking
> in any background knowledge (or knowledge, period, for that matter)
> which ultimately results in your posts being laughable.

But saying that, what makes you so special in that I should spend ages looking at posts, reviews and sites that you've done just to reply to something you've said in this thread ? Your pretty quick to laugh at my background knowledge of you and yet you constantly refer to me as a kid over and over again which kinda turns the tables on the comment of being snot nosed and arrogant.

> *Laughs*
>
> "BTW" is shorthand son, your use of the English language is
> flawed to the hilt, you couldn't even determine the context of my
> comment about games not BEING out and since then you have again missed
> the point on Halo. By claiming I said it was crap. ;)

Ssssssssshhh, don't tell anyone else this, but I think this is a videogame forum, not an English class. As for me taking you as saying that Halo is crap, your whole post rips into Microsoft and everything about the X-Box in a constant negative way, am I supposed to know that under all of it you actually have anything good to say about the game ? Again, with you coming accross as totally hostile towards the console and its games, why would I want to read a review of Halo by you when it seems pretty obvious what you think of it ?

> No, but launch titles should be something worthwhile buying the system
> for, and the sad truth of the matter is that they aren't in the case
> of the X-Box. You seem to cling quite desperately onto your little
> rants about Project Ego and Blinx, but it all bears very little
> relevance as THAT is the type of game that should've been made
> flagship. Not half-quality junk and rushed games like Halo.

Well thats a matter of opinion. A lot of people were happy with the likes of Halo, Project Gothem Racing, Dead Or Alive 3 and Jet Set Radio Future.

> Substance is also on it's way for the PS2, which is slated for release
> before that of the X-Box port, so that point is null and void.

So basically what your saying is if it doesn't come out on your console first, theres no point in having it ? Metal Gear Solid is a big name in games and rightfully so. Personally I think anyone should be happy if the console they own is receiving this title. It was recently announced that Splinter Cell would be coming to the Gamecube after the X-Box version, but I don't see any Ninties who are interested in the game letting any space between the versions put them off. Same can be said for the PSO games.

> Yet Microsoft foolishly believed that their system would immediately
> beat all competiton, solely due to the fact that they're Microsoft,
> and for their bravado they have been met with the exact opposite -
> high levels of console return and second hand sales, lots of
> skepticism, and an altogether unpopular console. Until they do
> anything to prove they deserve any treatment contrary to this, they
> will continue to receive the bad press they deserve.

Entering the games market isn't a crime and neither is having ambition to succeed. Would you prefer a company to come into the market with the attitude "We really suck, please be gentle with us Mr Rivals" ?

> Not excellent, but still good, and none too many disappointing titles.
> Gran Turismo 3 was a perfect example of this, and it set the standard
> for visual quality on console systems, now I know from playing the
> Gamecube that Nintendo have kept on a par with this level of detail...
> why haven't Microsoft? The architecture on Halo is blocky, the terrain
> unbelievable, the actual character models just look like any old first
> person shooter on the PC (unimpressive after the spegith of them
> around), answer me why.

Still good ? You go on about Halo being rushed, yet Tekken Tag is a blatent example of a game that was rushed out for launch. I didn't like Timesplitters but I won't deny it was popular. Ridge Racer V was hardly revolutionary and although I liked Dynasty Warriors 2, it was overall an average game. As for Gran Turismo 3, yes its great game, but it wasn't a launch title. Looking at the graphics on DOA3, they're amazing and this is a launch game which apparently doesn't even come close to using the X-Box's full capabilities in this area.
As for Rogue Leader, yes it looks nice - I owned the game. But its nothing that can't be done on the X-Box. The main area it impresses are the ship models, after that its just a case of throwing a nice sky or space scene in. Play through Hoth and fly low at the ground troops, you'll soon find out where the main attention has gone to.

> If their system is so fantastic, why was Halo nowhere near the levels
> of detail found in the Gamecube and PS2 selections, surely Microsoft
> would want to show off their console to the best of it's ability to
> sell it. Yet they didn't.

Every blade of grass can be seen on the ground in a field, different textures on things such as rocks and trees, dead bodies, bullet holes and blood staying where they hit and not disappearing after a few seconds. Then of course theres the likes of the excellent A.I in the game.

> That wasn't why the Dreamcast failed at all. Yes it was a good system,
> I have one myself, and still use it to this day - its support for 3rd
> party, in house development makes for some excellent additions in
> fields like media playing and emulation, but the Playstation wasn't
> the cause of it's demise. The reason it failed to corner the market
> was due to the amount of custom Sega had lost from it's loyal fanbase,
> the Mega CD, 32X, Saturn and a range of mediocre titles meant a lot of
> people who would normally buy Sega systems just stopped, they were
> appauled by how much the quality had slipped.
>
> When the Dreamcast was released it was extremely unpopular, partly
> because of it's use of the Windows CE operating system, and the latter
> being the fans not wanting to fork out anymore cash to Sega for
> useless attempts at a console. Thats what started pushing Sega towards
> bankruptcy, thats why they decided to cut their losses and become an
> exclusive software developer, abandoning the hardware market.
>
> The reason the X-Box is unpopular is due to the fact Microsoft are
> completely inexperienced in the field of console development, yet like
> to think they're the best at everything, contrary to the reality that
> they're pretty useless at most things. Their operating systems are
> avoidable until they've been out for at least 2yrs, as until that
> point you can guarantee they won't work as planned, their prices are
> ludicrously high for such low quality goods, and the few games they've
> had a hand in on the PC have been quite forgettable. They then try to
> create a console, and end up just producing a PC in a console's casing
> (an oversized one at that), but praising themselves highly for doing
> so and boasting about their flagship title Halo... which does not meet
> the standards it should've done.

It depends who you ask really. As far as people who have played games for a long period of time go, your right, its down to a lack of faith in Sega. Ask the people who were basically introduced to gaming through the Playstation (i.e The new audience range) and it was really down to the reason I gave. Sony brought a "cool" image to games so a lot of people just believed that the Playstation brand was the one to own.

> You give it a few months and they'll start trying to create updates
> and add-ons for existing titles to boost sales, Microsoft are
> notorious for trying to milk every penny from their customers as they
> can, as is the case with the DVD playback function on the X-Box. The
> system is entirely capable of playing them out of the box, as is the
> PS2, yet they have hardcoded the machine to refuse to do so unless you
> have forked out the extra cash for the playback kit.
>
> Now the PS2 will play DVDs without the official PS2 remote, you use
> the control pad to activate the various functions, from an onscreen
> display designed to be transcluent. The X-Box could have done that,
> yet Microsoft are leeches, and refuse to do so.

Wow, for someone who wants to stick to things that are available now, you sure changed your tune when it came to patches. So far, the only one I've heard of was in America for DOA3 which was put with one of the magazines over there so that American X-Box owners could get the extra costumes that were added in later which we benefited from from the start. Plus even if patches do come out with extras for games, your not required to buy them, it comes down to the same thing as the PS2 and Gamecube's HDD's - an apparent luxury. Only difference is that the seperate HDD's could end up preventing you from playing whole games unless your willing to fork out the extra cash.

> All very good in concept, but remains to be executed in practice, also
> how good it LOOKS. You don't just puke out dodgy looking titles on a
> next gen' console, and then wonder why nobody is buying it anymore,
> and Project Ego will have to look 10x better than Halo's effort to
> give Microsoft any credence. It'll also be interesting to see how they
> address the method of storing this data, you can't just run a defrag
> on a HDD hooked into a console, to do that you'd have to either buy
> some kind of repair kit/software bundle from Microsoft (highly likely,
> as it means leeching yet more cash) or link the system to your PC and
> run the defrag program on Windows. It WILL need to be done at some
> point, all harddisks require maintenance after a stretch of time in
> use, and I'm sure the players of Project Ego will be ecstatic when
> they stick the game in one day and find out that it can't be played
> period because the HDD is on the fritz.
>
> You see, in the case of the X-Box, the system is dependant on the HDD.
> If that goes, the system is redundant, until repaired. The PS2 and
> Gamecube have similar plans for HDDs, but neither of these systems
> require the thing to run, as is the case now. They will merely be
> add-ons, which will allow them to produce the same types of game
> you're describing. The big difference, however, is that if these HDDs
> screw up - it isn't going to result in a written off console.

Well its all a matter of wait and see isn't it.

> Which is no different from ghosts in time trial modes of existing
> games etc.

Except that these are saved onto memory cards outside of a cartridge system which would severely interfere in the middle of a game while you wait for the console to load the info up from the card. Mind you saying that, Mario Kart 64 required you to save a ghost to an N64 memory card and one ghost litterally took up the whole card.

> The point is it shouldn't stutter AT ALL, thats a problem associated
> with system load and multitasking on PCs, it is not meant to be an
> issue with consoles. The fact that Halo suffers from this is proof
> enough Microsoft need to pull their finger out and actually start
> thinking.

But wasn't it you who was claiming the X-Box to be a PC in a box ?

> Metal Gear Solid 2, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance... they've been
> mentioned earlier, and so far no title released for the PC at present
> looks anywhere near as good. Again, the systems due to the constant
> upgrades and jumps in technology are capable of doing so, but the
> people responsible for the creation of games just point blank can't be
> bothered to put the effort in.

Exactly, its not that it can't be done, its just that these 2 particular titles aren't available yet. Theres nothing to stop the companies releasing version just as good as the console ones.

> Go play MGS2, look at the level of detail in the game, look at the
> framerate, the animation, and the depth. Little things such as the
> complete interactivity with your surrounding environment, atmosphere
> lighting, and deformable lighting. Nothing on the PC has come close to
> it. Halo should've looked like that, because the Gamecube releases do,
> Rogue Leader etc. all have visuals that leave your jaw on the floor,
> but Halo was "just another PC game".

I wasn't anymore impressed with Rogue Leader or MGS2 as I was with Halo. All 3 impressed me. There was just something about Halo's atmosphere and graphics that gave it the edge for me though. As for the storyline though, you don't get much better (if any) than the MGS games.

> Its meant to be. Although in the case of Microsoft this definition is
> trying to be blurred.

Explain ?

> All PS2s including my own I've used or seen extensively in action
> since release are still running beautifully. The PS1 suffers from the
> mounting for its laser burning out, due to cheap materials, but the
> Dreamcast is quite a sturdy system. When the X-Box's HDD starts
> getting used properly (not tiny little savegame files like all
> system's currently have, but on SAFE removable media), it's going to
> need maintenance, defragging is going to be the main problem - if it
> isn't done then expect to see a huge hit to the console's performance,
> load times and saving times increased, and in a worst case scenario
> even the console becoming a complete write off. The system should NOT
> have been dependant on the HDD technology.

I knew why the PS1 had problems, but I ended up having trouble with the PS2 as well which didn't do many favours for my confidence in Sony. My Dreamcast also basically conked out one day and never worked again. Other people I know also had problems with these consoles too so I'm not totally alone in the situation. Until it happens, I have no reason to slate the X-Box for any problems like this.

> See my previous post about latency on dial-up connections. PSO and
> PSO2 have huge followings and player numbers, this was more than
> enough to prove Sega can handling online gaming, had the Dreamcast not
> been discontinued they would likely be at the forefront of it now.
> They had the jump on every gaming company, and likely would've kept
> it.
> The Playstation 2 already supports online gaming, its merely being
> expanded to network technology and broadband, along with having
> several developmental additions made. You can plug in a USB modem to
> one of it's ports, and you're able to play titles such as THPS3 head
> to head, online.

Same can be said for Halo though. That can be played online right now if you want to go out your way to do it. Although broadband isn't exactly booming over here yet, I'm happy that Microsoft are concentrating on that direction as it will no doubt help a lot as far as lag goes. Theres not a lot more annoying than an online game thats ruined by lag. I experienced this a lot with the Dreamcast, not just in Quake 3, but also PSO too. It was frustrating to pay out full whack on my phonebill while getting what felt like a half ar5ed service.

> Again, see my point about the benefits of not having these components
> integral to the system.

Again, not everyone is going to want to buy them seperately, especially when they can buy a console which already has these things built in. Not everyone is a tech nerd who knows the pros and cons of having a console with a built in or seperate HDD, etc.

> Diverting the topic yet again?
> You failed to address to mentioning of ports over original
> development, and have not addressed the slated release numbers, nor
> have you stated exactly how this would make a bearing to the number of
> games available in contrast to that of Nintendo and Sony's market.

Why ? Is the PS2 not allowed to be put into this topic ? As for ports and original development, original development is great, but you need more than that. People get used to names such as Unreal, MGS, Couter-Strike, etc. Why do you think Nintendo release new Mario and Zelda games constantly ? Cause it sells ! Microsoft can't just appear with new games and expect to get peoples attention, its also important to get the games that attract players such as the games I mentioned. I'm not saying forget original games, far from it, but its important to have a contrast between the two. If I remember right, the X-Box has something like 314 games on the way. Seeing as your the one saying that the GC has more, then I think you can be the one to go counting them.

> The only prat here, unfortunately, is you kiddo. You're the one who
> spewed out that inane crap in your reply to my original comment, and
> having failed to quote fact since, along with your blatant inability
> to exercise comprehension and basic aptitude in the English language -
> have only further made yourself out to be a fool.

Again, I didn't realise this was a Uni student perfect English language forum. I haven't seen too much fact on your behalf either, its all a case of "coulds" and "shoulds".

> Nah kiddo, plenty fulfilled in that region too, guess you'll have to
> wait a few years before it becomes a realistic prospect for you
> though. :(

I meant outside your little online RPG. You know REAL girls.

> Again I'll emphasise the whole point on comprehension, as apparently
> you're still lacking the debate skills required to execute this
> function; its not that Microsoft don't deserve to survive because
> they're a large company, its that they deserve to get a rude awakening
> because they're a lazy, and sloppy company. Pay attention. ;)
>
> As is the case here, with all systems being enjoyed, bar that of the
> Microsoft effort. That judgement was reserved until I saw the system
> in ation, so it is an informed decision, unlike anything you've put
> forward here. ;)

Well I have owned every major console for like the past 16 years or so including the GC and PS2 which I think gives me just as much right to comment on them as you.

> Something which Microsoft lack, the space normally occupied by
> imagination and talent in their departments, are filled by the
> excessive number of dollar signs they see before their eyes. You'll
> also find that I'm quite capable of "making" a game, as the
> playerbase of WRATH already states, the game was inspired by another
> one known as Legends of Kesmai - which was shutdown and killed off
> after EA decided it was competition for Ultima Online, having been a
> player of the game myself and knowing what was enjoyable about it -
> I'm more than qualified to create something similar but better. As for
> your comment on imagination, I take it you weren't estute enough to
> notice the "showroom" forum, I'm the lead artist kiddo - you
> can't be an artist without having an imagination or being creative,
> the work I've posted in there shows I have both qualities.

Like I said before, I don't see anything special about you in particular that tells me I should run around looking up everything about you. My assumptions of you are no worse than you assuming I'm a kid based on the fact that I'm not a specs nerd and don't write perfect written English in a videogame forum. Feels like I'm arguing with the guy from the comicbook shop in the Simpsons.

> But I can forgive your pitiful attempt here, as its obvious you're not
> entirely complete in the intellect department,

Oh thankyou lord nerd, I'm so happy.

>tell me though; what is bliss like. ;)

I'll tell you when you shut up.

> Only one problem there though son, I'm actually stating fact and
> giving extra info' to back my points up, whereas you're merely
> blathering on to no avail without any real stance in the argument.
> Hence you'll find that it is you who needs to put a little more time
> into your responses. ;)

No, I'm talking from the point of a player, your talking from the point of a console inards nerd.

Freeola & GetDotted are rated 5 Stars

Check out some of our customer reviews below:

Very pleased
Very pleased with the help given by your staff. They explained technical details in an easy way and were patient when providing information to a non expert like me.
Many thanks!!
Registered my website with Freeola Sites on Tuesday. Now have full and comprehensive Google coverage for my site. Great stuff!!
John Shepherd

View More Reviews

Need some help? Give us a call on 01376 55 60 60

Go to Support Centre
Feedback Close Feedback

It appears you are using an old browser, as such, some parts of the Freeola and Getdotted site will not work as intended. Using the latest version of your browser, or another browser such as Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox, or Opera will provide a better, safer browsing experience for you.