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Okay I have a link to the Daily Mail but I've been wanting to do this thread for awhile. Apparently in Canada and American especially, they really make an effort to welcome home the dead soldiers that went to fight for their country. However our boys don't seem to get the same treatment. There was also something in the news about requesting them not to wear uniforms in public or something along those lines.
According to the newspapers we should all be ashamed of ourselves and we should be showing more support and respect for the people who risked their lives for our country.
So what do you think of all this? Is it our fault? Should we be doing more to show our support for our troops? Why aren't you all going out to buy (made in China) mini flags and waving them in the streets?
And why isn't Hippyman even considering a job in the army despite all those "cool" adverts on TV like the guys on that really sunny tropical beach having a laugh. In Singapore (like Italy) every young man has to enlist in the army for several years. Maybe this is something we might have to do when we run out of soldiers?
According to the newspapers we should all be ashamed of ourselves and we should be showing more support and respect for the people who risked their lives for our country.
So what do you think of all this? Is it our fault? Should we be doing more to show our support for our troops? Why aren't you all going out to buy (made in China) mini flags and waving them in the streets?
And why isn't Hippyman even considering a job in the army despite all those "cool" adverts on TV like the guys on that really sunny tropical beach having a laugh. In Singapore (like Italy) every young man has to enlist in the army for several years. Maybe this is something we might have to do when we run out of soldiers?
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Dragonlance wrote:
> The point of 'conscription' is lost here...two years of
> 'enforced learning' consists of basic maths, basic english,
> electronics, computer key skills, social skills ie living
> together, eating together, washing-up, ironing, washing, wet
> shaving, personal skills, respect (all of which should have been
> inherant from birth)...NOTHING to do with...killing...that just
> comes as and when the government dictates.
So the 11 years of enforced learning between 5 and 16 aren't enough?
Oh and how could respect be inherent from birth? Pfft
> The point of 'conscription' is lost here...two years of
> 'enforced learning' consists of basic maths, basic english,
> electronics, computer key skills, social skills ie living
> together, eating together, washing-up, ironing, washing, wet
> shaving, personal skills, respect (all of which should have been
> inherant from birth)...NOTHING to do with...killing...that just
> comes as and when the government dictates.
So the 11 years of enforced learning between 5 and 16 aren't enough?
Oh and how could respect be inherent from birth? Pfft
We haven't yet developed the magic power to turn corpses into oil.
Grix Thraves wrote:
> Don't you think that'd be nicer, sending children away to LEARN
> about advancing the human race instead of training them to be
> hired killers?
Totally agree but...
The point of 'conscription' is lost here...two years of 'enforced learning' consists of basic maths, basic english, electronics, computer key skills, social skills ie living together, eating together, washing-up, ironing, washing, wet shaving, personal skills, respect (all of which should have been inherant from birth)...NOTHING to do with...killing...that just comes as and when the government dictates.
Today's 'volunteers' in the armed forces, after training as 'hired killers' for 20 odd weeks, work Mon-Fri 7.30-4.00, w/ends off and could iron for England. Tained killers, you are joking...believe me Grix, you are so far from the truth as you can be!
> Don't you think that'd be nicer, sending children away to LEARN
> about advancing the human race instead of training them to be
> hired killers?
Totally agree but...
The point of 'conscription' is lost here...two years of 'enforced learning' consists of basic maths, basic english, electronics, computer key skills, social skills ie living together, eating together, washing-up, ironing, washing, wet shaving, personal skills, respect (all of which should have been inherant from birth)...NOTHING to do with...killing...that just comes as and when the government dictates.
Today's 'volunteers' in the armed forces, after training as 'hired killers' for 20 odd weeks, work Mon-Fri 7.30-4.00, w/ends off and could iron for England. Tained killers, you are joking...believe me Grix, you are so far from the truth as you can be!
If only there was some sort of conscription that instead of teaching kids how to kill, taught them how to.. read. And write. And speak so idiots no longer ask for a 'cab, innit' and end up with a piece of furniture.
Don't you think that'd be nicer, sending children away to LEARN about advancing the human race instead of training them to be hired killers?
Don't you think that'd be nicer, sending children away to LEARN about advancing the human race instead of training them to be hired killers?
To Garin, you've hit the nail on the head - no national spirit, no community spirit - 'conscription' won't stop or improve the nation's general attitude - every nationalistic 'action' tends to succumb to some 'governmental' restriction - we can have 'free speech' but 'within reason'!
To Nin, age tends to be a great leveller in conversations like this, believe me. If you are English, British or whatever you want to be - this country of ours has been and is a bastion of 'strength' to many nations and it is worth standing up for. At the moment too many 'citizens' are too eager to criticize and condemn the country they were born in and live in - hypocrites - usually 'those milking' the rest of us and 'us' letting them do it.
To Nin, age tends to be a great leveller in conversations like this, believe me. If you are English, British or whatever you want to be - this country of ours has been and is a bastion of 'strength' to many nations and it is worth standing up for. At the moment too many 'citizens' are too eager to criticize and condemn the country they were born in and live in - hypocrites - usually 'those milking' the rest of us and 'us' letting them do it.
We don't care because we're british, and it's not in our nature to show any emotion unless an underdog is involved.
Fighting in rambo style, becoming a man of steel amongst some of my closest friends in a world of adventure.
Horrible
=D
Horrible
=D
Garin wrote:
> In short, we're
> just too self obsessed in the UK. We have very little national
> pride or community spirit anymore.
True, I'd kill you just for the last rolo in the packet.
I'm not sure self-obsessed in the right description. I'd say we're caught up in a paranoid seige-mentality of "Everyone is against me" and there is deep distrust and suspicion about everyone. In that situation it is self-preservation, not obsession.
> In short, we're
> just too self obsessed in the UK. We have very little national
> pride or community spirit anymore.
True, I'd kill you just for the last rolo in the packet.
I'm not sure self-obsessed in the right description. I'd say we're caught up in a paranoid seige-mentality of "Everyone is against me" and there is deep distrust and suspicion about everyone. In that situation it is self-preservation, not obsession.
Given any conscription its highly unlikely to involve me in any way, I'm all in favour. :)
I know a few people from countries that have it actually. In my view it seems to be a positive thing. Certainly never heard too much grumbling about it. Also its worth remarking that not all conscription is military based. For instance in germany, you can choose to do civil service rather than join the military.
Anyway, getting back to the original point. Simply in Canada and the US joining the military is seen as being worthwhile. Not because you might kill dirty foreigners but for the fact that you're seen to be serving the larger community. In short, we're just too self obsessed in the UK. We have very little national pride or community spirit anymore.
I know a few people from countries that have it actually. In my view it seems to be a positive thing. Certainly never heard too much grumbling about it. Also its worth remarking that not all conscription is military based. For instance in germany, you can choose to do civil service rather than join the military.
Anyway, getting back to the original point. Simply in Canada and the US joining the military is seen as being worthwhile. Not because you might kill dirty foreigners but for the fact that you're seen to be serving the larger community. In short, we're just too self obsessed in the UK. We have very little national pride or community spirit anymore.
Dragonlance wrote:
> Every country I can think of has 'conscription' or compulsory
> service in that countries armed forces. We had it until the late
> fifties or early sixties. It did no harm to any that were
> 'conscripted'. However our government, of the day, decided it
> wasn't necessary and so it went...now we reap the benefits of a
> 'no conscription' society...I'll leave you to fill in the gaps.
Yes, i dare say getting your legs blown off would stop you hanging around street corners drinking. There has to be a better way of "moderating" society than 2-4 years in the army.
> Would any of you be happy if conscription was re-introduced for
> 18-22 year olds? Or would you just react like the American youth
> of the sixties - protest against the 'draft'?
There is very little i think i would object to more. I believe that if the cause is just then you dont need conscription as people will volunteer but it should always be a choice. Especially at a time like this when wars are a choice for financial gain.
> Every country I can think of has 'conscription' or compulsory
> service in that countries armed forces. We had it until the late
> fifties or early sixties. It did no harm to any that were
> 'conscripted'. However our government, of the day, decided it
> wasn't necessary and so it went...now we reap the benefits of a
> 'no conscription' society...I'll leave you to fill in the gaps.
Yes, i dare say getting your legs blown off would stop you hanging around street corners drinking. There has to be a better way of "moderating" society than 2-4 years in the army.
> Would any of you be happy if conscription was re-introduced for
> 18-22 year olds? Or would you just react like the American youth
> of the sixties - protest against the 'draft'?
There is very little i think i would object to more. I believe that if the cause is just then you dont need conscription as people will volunteer but it should always be a choice. Especially at a time like this when wars are a choice for financial gain.
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