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This is just my opinion on some stuff. Which side do you favor - scientific or religious route? Foreword: This, which I am about to type isn’t science-fiction nonsense. Much of what is written is based on scientifically proven fact, and the rest is my opinion. Using a combination of the two, a reasonably non-contradictory explanation can hopefully be created. Right.
In the beginning there was the big bang, the creation of OUR universe. There, at the same time, were also an infinite number of other big bangs elsewhere in the multiverse. The multiverse is a fluid medium in which our, and many other universes float. Our universe is likely to be donut-shaped, but as we have no scientific proof, and never will have, this can never be proved. The multiverse cannot be defined; it is a place where “god” exists. Here he/she/it created all the universes, possibly simultaneously. He DID create everything we know, but in a random manner. Each universe is similar to at least one other universe, but with one single tiny difference in the laws of physics. For every possible outcome that could arise, there is a universe for each possibility (hence parallel universe. But this is actually lies because if it was a parallel universe then everything would be the same and it’s not, there is one difference in each one). Our universe is almost infinitely large, and is expanding, at an almost infinite rate. (Again not 100% scientific fact but this is what is generally believed to be happening)
The universe is several billion years old, this IS scientific fact and flatly contradicts the Bible, which claims the earth is a mere 5000 years old, but the earth is also several billion years old. It could be ¼ the age of the universe or perhaps even less. But still, that is substantially more than 5000 years. If the bible is wrong on such a scale, such a massive fact then surely other, more minor facts must also be incorrect. The bible clearly has a lot of truth. And it also has many valid points, and thus should be followed. But, in my opinion, whether you follow it or not, has no effect on the “afterlife”, more on this later.
The earth was formed in space over millions or billions of years, due to the accumulation of dust and particles in space, formed by a destroyed star or the creation of the universe itself. The gravity of all the little bits pulled together to form a large planet. There was extreme heat here because of all the forces acting upon the planet, during its creation. Here it sat and boiled for a while, until it got smacked by a super-massive asteroid, and this caused bits of it to fly off. These bits went into orbit around the earth and formed the moon. Earth now is kind of cooling down, and sort of becoming habitable. Life will soon form, but there are two possible ways in which this could happen.
1. Bits of stuff, proteins etc congealed in a pool, by chance formed an organism and this organism then decided it was a plant. And thus life on earth arose due to its own volition.
2. There was already life elsewhere in the universe, which is highly likely due to the place’s age, 5 billion years+ is likely to form life (as stated in 1.), and a meteor or whatever struck this planet. Some bacteria or plant material was transported through space in/on the asteroid. It landed on our humble planet, escaped and started up here.
If either of these are true, which they could well be, does it not occur to you that life is just a big bunch of random proteins and stuff congealed together, by luck/chance, and evolution have culminated, on this planet at any rate, in humans. Look at really basic life: an amoeba. It clearly has no intelligence; it simply isn’t capable of it. Don’t say it does, because it simply cant think, it lives, breeds etc on genetic instinct built into it. It has no choice, it has no ethics, and it has no ‘spirit’. Eat or not eat. Divide or not divide. That’s about the limit of its choices. Then look at us: are we any different? NO. Our brains are just 2 lbs of gray mush that has been formed over millions of years of natural selection. The brain is really great. It’s quite smashing. It can do millions of things per second; it’s faster than ANY computer. It controls electrical signals generated in our brain, generally by external stimuli. Sight, smell etc. these electrical signals go to glands or whatever, send out hormones, and stuff.
Personality is just a bonus, a side effect of the brain. Look at dolphins, or sharks, or snakes, or mice. Not stupid animals, they have personalities, just like any one of us. But would you say they have a “spirit”? Do they have a god? In the literal sense, yes they do as god is (potentially) an omnipotent being who created the universes. But do they go to heaven when they die? Do the dolphins go to a massive sea in the sky with as many hoops, balls and fish as they want? To the mice go to cheese-land? No. How? Because there is no such place, there is no such thing as “spirits,” or “your soul”. There is the person inside oneself, but that is primarily defined at conception, then later, after birth, formed through external influences. It may sound heartless but it is, in my opinion, the truth.
So, what happens when we die? Where do we go, what happens to our consciousness? It simply stops. There is nothing there; you simply don’t exist (other then your dead body). Whatever thoughts, feelings or whatever you had on your dying day will be stored there still, in your deceased brain, until it degrades, the memory cells die and THEN, you are gone. So in a way you do exist after death, if only briefly. But of course you are dead, there is no heart action, thus no brain function, therefore it is the end.
If you disagree with any of my points, feel free to criticize.
Thanks for reading,
LF
In the beginning there was the big bang, the creation of OUR universe. There, at the same time, were also an infinite number of other big bangs elsewhere in the multiverse. The multiverse is a fluid medium in which our, and many other universes float. Our universe is likely to be donut-shaped, but as we have no scientific proof, and never will have, this can never be proved. The multiverse cannot be defined; it is a place where “god” exists. Here he/she/it created all the universes, possibly simultaneously. He DID create everything we know, but in a random manner. Each universe is similar to at least one other universe, but with one single tiny difference in the laws of physics. For every possible outcome that could arise, there is a universe for each possibility (hence parallel universe. But this is actually lies because if it was a parallel universe then everything would be the same and it’s not, there is one difference in each one). Our universe is almost infinitely large, and is expanding, at an almost infinite rate. (Again not 100% scientific fact but this is what is generally believed to be happening)
The universe is several billion years old, this IS scientific fact and flatly contradicts the Bible, which claims the earth is a mere 5000 years old, but the earth is also several billion years old. It could be ¼ the age of the universe or perhaps even less. But still, that is substantially more than 5000 years. If the bible is wrong on such a scale, such a massive fact then surely other, more minor facts must also be incorrect. The bible clearly has a lot of truth. And it also has many valid points, and thus should be followed. But, in my opinion, whether you follow it or not, has no effect on the “afterlife”, more on this later.
The earth was formed in space over millions or billions of years, due to the accumulation of dust and particles in space, formed by a destroyed star or the creation of the universe itself. The gravity of all the little bits pulled together to form a large planet. There was extreme heat here because of all the forces acting upon the planet, during its creation. Here it sat and boiled for a while, until it got smacked by a super-massive asteroid, and this caused bits of it to fly off. These bits went into orbit around the earth and formed the moon. Earth now is kind of cooling down, and sort of becoming habitable. Life will soon form, but there are two possible ways in which this could happen.
1. Bits of stuff, proteins etc congealed in a pool, by chance formed an organism and this organism then decided it was a plant. And thus life on earth arose due to its own volition.
2. There was already life elsewhere in the universe, which is highly likely due to the place’s age, 5 billion years+ is likely to form life (as stated in 1.), and a meteor or whatever struck this planet. Some bacteria or plant material was transported through space in/on the asteroid. It landed on our humble planet, escaped and started up here.
If either of these are true, which they could well be, does it not occur to you that life is just a big bunch of random proteins and stuff congealed together, by luck/chance, and evolution have culminated, on this planet at any rate, in humans. Look at really basic life: an amoeba. It clearly has no intelligence; it simply isn’t capable of it. Don’t say it does, because it simply cant think, it lives, breeds etc on genetic instinct built into it. It has no choice, it has no ethics, and it has no ‘spirit’. Eat or not eat. Divide or not divide. That’s about the limit of its choices. Then look at us: are we any different? NO. Our brains are just 2 lbs of gray mush that has been formed over millions of years of natural selection. The brain is really great. It’s quite smashing. It can do millions of things per second; it’s faster than ANY computer. It controls electrical signals generated in our brain, generally by external stimuli. Sight, smell etc. these electrical signals go to glands or whatever, send out hormones, and stuff.
Personality is just a bonus, a side effect of the brain. Look at dolphins, or sharks, or snakes, or mice. Not stupid animals, they have personalities, just like any one of us. But would you say they have a “spirit”? Do they have a god? In the literal sense, yes they do as god is (potentially) an omnipotent being who created the universes. But do they go to heaven when they die? Do the dolphins go to a massive sea in the sky with as many hoops, balls and fish as they want? To the mice go to cheese-land? No. How? Because there is no such place, there is no such thing as “spirits,” or “your soul”. There is the person inside oneself, but that is primarily defined at conception, then later, after birth, formed through external influences. It may sound heartless but it is, in my opinion, the truth.
So, what happens when we die? Where do we go, what happens to our consciousness? It simply stops. There is nothing there; you simply don’t exist (other then your dead body). Whatever thoughts, feelings or whatever you had on your dying day will be stored there still, in your deceased brain, until it degrades, the memory cells die and THEN, you are gone. So in a way you do exist after death, if only briefly. But of course you are dead, there is no heart action, thus no brain function, therefore it is the end.
If you disagree with any of my points, feel free to criticize.
Thanks for reading,
LF
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Maybe no one has proved that any historical events didn't happen but most of the Bible isn't about history, and the Bible itself has been changed by many many groups and people into what it is today. It still is what Mojojojo says, a book telling people how to live their life. Now thats fine with me, if someone wants to live according to a book then as long as they don't tell me how to live I'm happy for them. Sadly that is rarely the case (talking generally here, not personally). Every country has it's own laws, decided and changed by the present government/ruler. They tell people what they can and cannot do. Like the Bible eh ? No, because these laws can be changed by public opinion unlike the Bible and that is why they are more usable than anything the Bible has to say. Many Christian groups oppose single parent families, gay relationships, anyone who goes against their beloved teachings. Go past churches in many towns and you see stupid posters like "Jesus will repent your sins". And this is the core of why I don't believe in this kind of religion.
If people spent more time looking to themselves for strength, hope, courage, wisdom e.t.c than a centuries old institution then the world would be a better place. God doesn't "fate" anything, people just do things. God doesn't save people, or cure them of disease, other people do. Believe in yourself and see how much further you can go. Religion is more of a coping mechanism than anything else. When times are hard get religious and tell yourself we're all equal in heaven...yeah right...I'm sorry but I can't believe that.
Religions other major crime, is that, unlike science, it's killed people by the millions, if not billions. The Crusades, The Witchhunts, Missionaries in the Congo in 18th-19th c, America 15-18th c.....and thats just Christianity. A religion preaching peace has been rather active in the killing fields hasn't it ? Yet does it admit it, put its collective hand up and say "sorry" ? Nope, rather it watches is outrages slip into the nearly forgotten history of the world which is mainly written by Christians. Groups such as Christian Aid criticicse America for its war on terror by saying that America is just spreading its influence further....how ironic is that ? The Christians themselves have long since spread their influence over much of the world, or tried to. And when persuasion failed, well the European Christians in the 15th-19th c had the best weapons....... If you want a tolerant religion then don't look at Christianity, in my view anyway.
Now, what I do believe is that there is a God, an overall one that all religions came from in some form or another. The problem is that these religion have been created by people at different times to serve their own needs and desires and uses. I aslo believe that when we die some essence of us lives on and is reborn in another body. Evidence for past lives is to strong for me to deny that. I believe that somehow our minds supress previous lifes and its not that hard to see how it old work, how many of us can remember in detail a normal day last year...let alone tens of years back.
Science has been the saviou of the human race. Humans have used science to kill, yes, but more often that not that killing has been done in the name of a religion. Many wars today are brutal because of science, but at least the west no longer uses religion as its reasons for war. The war on terrorism is not a holy one, its one for freedom, a human concept. I can believe in freedom because it is real and unquestionable, it's something worth fighting for and, if necessary, dying for.
So thats what I think...
If people spent more time looking to themselves for strength, hope, courage, wisdom e.t.c than a centuries old institution then the world would be a better place. God doesn't "fate" anything, people just do things. God doesn't save people, or cure them of disease, other people do. Believe in yourself and see how much further you can go. Religion is more of a coping mechanism than anything else. When times are hard get religious and tell yourself we're all equal in heaven...yeah right...I'm sorry but I can't believe that.
Religions other major crime, is that, unlike science, it's killed people by the millions, if not billions. The Crusades, The Witchhunts, Missionaries in the Congo in 18th-19th c, America 15-18th c.....and thats just Christianity. A religion preaching peace has been rather active in the killing fields hasn't it ? Yet does it admit it, put its collective hand up and say "sorry" ? Nope, rather it watches is outrages slip into the nearly forgotten history of the world which is mainly written by Christians. Groups such as Christian Aid criticicse America for its war on terror by saying that America is just spreading its influence further....how ironic is that ? The Christians themselves have long since spread their influence over much of the world, or tried to. And when persuasion failed, well the European Christians in the 15th-19th c had the best weapons....... If you want a tolerant religion then don't look at Christianity, in my view anyway.
Now, what I do believe is that there is a God, an overall one that all religions came from in some form or another. The problem is that these religion have been created by people at different times to serve their own needs and desires and uses. I aslo believe that when we die some essence of us lives on and is reborn in another body. Evidence for past lives is to strong for me to deny that. I believe that somehow our minds supress previous lifes and its not that hard to see how it old work, how many of us can remember in detail a normal day last year...let alone tens of years back.
Science has been the saviou of the human race. Humans have used science to kill, yes, but more often that not that killing has been done in the name of a religion. Many wars today are brutal because of science, but at least the west no longer uses religion as its reasons for war. The war on terrorism is not a holy one, its one for freedom, a human concept. I can believe in freedom because it is real and unquestionable, it's something worth fighting for and, if necessary, dying for.
So thats what I think...
Just to stop the "what about the earth being made in 7 days" stuff again.
Amend my last post to
not one single HISTORICAL event
Amend my last post to
not one single HISTORICAL event
MoJoJoJo wrote:
>
> So he's not allowed his opinion, but you are?
>
> Please, Ant, live your life the way you WANT to, and not the way a
> fictional novel tells you to
A Fictional Novel ? what a totally ridiculous statement that is to make, it just shows a complete ignorance of whats around you.
Wether you believe in God or not it is a fact that the Bible and other associated ancient texts such as the Apochrypha are invaluble historical records of ancient times.
Not one single event mentioned in them has yet found to be inaccurate. Dates etc may be difficult to work out but as time goes on and more archaelogical evidence is being discovered that proves the events.
Engravings have been found along the route of the Israelites Exodus, The existence of the site of Sodom has been discovered from the burnt walls and many other sites have been and are being discovered all the time.
>
> So he's not allowed his opinion, but you are?
>
> Please, Ant, live your life the way you WANT to, and not the way a
> fictional novel tells you to
A Fictional Novel ? what a totally ridiculous statement that is to make, it just shows a complete ignorance of whats around you.
Wether you believe in God or not it is a fact that the Bible and other associated ancient texts such as the Apochrypha are invaluble historical records of ancient times.
Not one single event mentioned in them has yet found to be inaccurate. Dates etc may be difficult to work out but as time goes on and more archaelogical evidence is being discovered that proves the events.
Engravings have been found along the route of the Israelites Exodus, The existence of the site of Sodom has been discovered from the burnt walls and many other sites have been and are being discovered all the time.
Here's an alternate way at looking at this debate...
Is science merely a religion? We believe what the scientists tell us, and all they can tell us is what they've observed. I mean, they can't explain what Quarks and Anti-quarks contain, only that they exist and what type they are. Surely they're made of something...
Science, like many religions, is all about discovery and beliefs. So could science be classed as a religion?
Is science merely a religion? We believe what the scientists tell us, and all they can tell us is what they've observed. I mean, they can't explain what Quarks and Anti-quarks contain, only that they exist and what type they are. Surely they're made of something...
Science, like many religions, is all about discovery and beliefs. So could science be classed as a religion?
Ant wrote:
> Smooth Criminal wrote:
> In my opinion Religion is a load of bollards.
>
> Rather like your opinion.
>
> Especially judging by your 'reasons' for it.
---------
So he's not allowed his opinion, but you are?
Please, Ant, live your life the way you WANT to, and not the way a fictional novel tells you to
> Smooth Criminal wrote:
> In my opinion Religion is a load of bollards.
>
> Rather like your opinion.
>
> Especially judging by your 'reasons' for it.
---------
So he's not allowed his opinion, but you are?
Please, Ant, live your life the way you WANT to, and not the way a fictional novel tells you to
And Sonic, the Catholic Church may accept the Big Bang and Evolution but most other Christians certainly don't, including myself.
In my opinion, the story of God making the Earth in 6 days is not to be taken literally. I mean, how could days exist if the Universe didn't? I reckon that he made the Universe in 6 'stages', and the people who wrote the Bible decided the easiest way for us to understand it would be to use 'days' to represent this. A lot of the Old Testament, in my opinion, is representation, and not meant to be taken completely literally. Most people who do take it literally aren't Christians, and use this in their arguments.
In my opinion, the story of God making the Earth in 6 days is not to be taken literally. I mean, how could days exist if the Universe didn't? I reckon that he made the Universe in 6 'stages', and the people who wrote the Bible decided the easiest way for us to understand it would be to use 'days' to represent this. A lot of the Old Testament, in my opinion, is representation, and not meant to be taken completely literally. Most people who do take it literally aren't Christians, and use this in their arguments.
Smooth Criminal wrote:
> In my opinion Religion is a load of bollards.
Rather like your opinion.
Especially judging by your 'reasons' for it.
> In my opinion Religion is a load of bollards.
Rather like your opinion.
Especially judging by your 'reasons' for it.
Smooth Criminal, I think you've got things hopelessly wrong. The Church (by which I mean the Catholic Church) openly accepts EVERY scientific theory. If you think that they still belive God made the world in 6 days, then it is you who has his head in the sand.
If you want the full argument, go back to a long post I did on this in this topic.
Basically, the church accepts the big bang. The stuff in the bibble about the "6 days" is actually a historic record of how people in olden days tried to explain how the Universe was made- NOT what God told them! (Another idea is that the 6 days are the 6 ages of the universe).
The curch accepts the Big bang... the question is what set that off? Did God design the plan of the Universe and then create it? Who knows. After all, the mass of a Proton is exactly right to allow atoms and molecules to form- without such a perfect proton mass there would be no life.
Likewise the church accepts that evolution (and every other theory of life) could be true. The point it that when God "created" man what he actually did was give us immortal souls at some time during our evolution.
Now, I'm a scientist, and DO NOT believe in God. But I do so after having actually bothered to learn what religion teaches, and not just be arrogant. To think that half the world still thinks the wolrd was created in 6 days in pure arrogance. Do some reading.
Sonic
If you want the full argument, go back to a long post I did on this in this topic.
Basically, the church accepts the big bang. The stuff in the bibble about the "6 days" is actually a historic record of how people in olden days tried to explain how the Universe was made- NOT what God told them! (Another idea is that the 6 days are the 6 ages of the universe).
The curch accepts the Big bang... the question is what set that off? Did God design the plan of the Universe and then create it? Who knows. After all, the mass of a Proton is exactly right to allow atoms and molecules to form- without such a perfect proton mass there would be no life.
Likewise the church accepts that evolution (and every other theory of life) could be true. The point it that when God "created" man what he actually did was give us immortal souls at some time during our evolution.
Now, I'm a scientist, and DO NOT believe in God. But I do so after having actually bothered to learn what religion teaches, and not just be arrogant. To think that half the world still thinks the wolrd was created in 6 days in pure arrogance. Do some reading.
Sonic
Smooth Criminal wrote:
> In my opinion Religion is a load of bollards,ETC.....
>
> See my point?
Not at all you t***, why don't you actually read through the posts that have been put here and realise that this has actually been quite an interesting, constructive ? and educated debate.
Sonic - I'll get back to you later, busy day today !!
> In my opinion Religion is a load of bollards,ETC.....
>
> See my point?
Not at all you t***, why don't you actually read through the posts that have been put here and realise that this has actually been quite an interesting, constructive ? and educated debate.
Sonic - I'll get back to you later, busy day today !!
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