The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
They are retailing the PS2 for £300. I know it sounds like a lot but get this. For every unit they sell, they still make a deficit of £65. There seems to be a high demand for the thing so it's in really high production rate and seeing as they're relying on games for profit, well the game sales are pretty poor at the moment and worse still, evidence shows that the PS2 will go the same way as the Saturn. For those of you who haven't followed me, this means that Sony are going to lose a fortune!
You might think that Nintendo and Sega were hit bad by losing the market but they survived because they make great games and they have other areas to get money from (Sega's Arcades and Nintendo's Gameboy).
PS2 could be (might not be but could be) a worse flop than the Sega Saturn and seeing as Sony's finances are relying on long term games sales, well, Sony are going to lose so much, a lot of employee's will be rendered jobless and Sony may even disappear from the games market.
I hardly think that Sony will be missed although it HAS done LOTS of great things for the games industry. It brought games to people who used to think that they were "sad". It taught Nintendo and Sega not to be too greedy and to give the best quality and prices around and finally it made the games industry bigger meaning that more and more profits will be made by future games developers (like me).
You might think that Nintendo and Sega were hit bad by losing the market but they survived because they make great games and they have other areas to get money from (Sega's Arcades and Nintendo's Gameboy).
PS2 could be (might not be but could be) a worse flop than the Sega Saturn and seeing as Sony's finances are relying on long term games sales, well, Sony are going to lose so much, a lot of employee's will be rendered jobless and Sony may even disappear from the games market.
I hardly think that Sony will be missed although it HAS done LOTS of great things for the games industry. It brought games to people who used to think that they were "sad". It taught Nintendo and Sega not to be too greedy and to give the best quality and prices around and finally it made the games industry bigger meaning that more and more profits will be made by future games developers (like me).
Page:
One problem............get rid of those sequels!
Oops, sorry, I meant the forum, "Once and for all, is the PS2 really any good?"
This is exactly what I've been trying to say Babylonian. It's just no one listens to me, I suppose it's cos I'm a tiny ant. Also, help me out on the topic "Doesn't everyone realize that the PS2 could be a great success"
No one seems to agree with my PS2 views.
No one seems to agree with my PS2 views.
Certainly. It was the way they treated most of the artists on their music label. Not that I was a big fan of any of them. I just thought they were pushing people around because of their big name.
Still I wouldn't complain if someone was to buy me a Playstation2 or I was to win one!
Still I wouldn't complain if someone was to buy me a Playstation2 or I was to win one!
This is becoming the PS2 forum!
I agree that the PS2 will be a success to begin with at least. Whether this is down to hype, good games or both I don't know, I would guess that it was both of these. What is important is that Sony keep the good games coming and keep an eye on the quality and quantity of the games. It's also important that they get feedback from the public, recently they seem to be a little distanced from listening to people, but I think that this is just the 'big company' syndrome.
I agree that the PS2 will be a success to begin with at least. Whether this is down to hype, good games or both I don't know, I would guess that it was both of these. What is important is that Sony keep the good games coming and keep an eye on the quality and quantity of the games. It's also important that they get feedback from the public, recently they seem to be a little distanced from listening to people, but I think that this is just the 'big company' syndrome.
> And surely as time passes the cost of producing the
> PS2's will drop? Weren't the high costs to do with last minute
> changes and new bits and pieces in it? Once the factories have
> been producing these for a while they'll become more efficient,
> they won't have to work on overtime to get the amount of consoles
> needed for launch out again. So a drop in price in the future
> won't necessarily mean Sony are losing more money.
Absolutely. As we all know, mass production reduces costs. Once Sony have the teething troubles ironed out, the situation *should* sort itself out.
> PS2's will drop? Weren't the high costs to do with last minute
> changes and new bits and pieces in it? Once the factories have
> been producing these for a while they'll become more efficient,
> they won't have to work on overtime to get the amount of consoles
> needed for launch out again. So a drop in price in the future
> won't necessarily mean Sony are losing more money.
Absolutely. As we all know, mass production reduces costs. Once Sony have the teething troubles ironed out, the situation *should* sort itself out.
Good points, well made. The Saturn's failure is not in itself evidence. And surely as time passes the cost of producing the PS2's will drop? Weren't the high costs to do with last minute changes and new bits and pieces in it? Once the factories have been producing these for a while they'll become more efficient, they won't have to work on overtime to get the amount of consoles needed for launch out again. So a drop in price in the future won't necessarily mean Sony are losing more money.
Personally I think I would like to see the PS2 fail, because I don't like Sony as a company, not just their Playstation department, but I doubt it will for any of the reasons stated so far.
Personally I think I would like to see the PS2 fail, because I don't like Sony as a company, not just their Playstation department, but I doubt it will for any of the reasons stated so far.
> Oh, but there is evidence.
>
> The PS2 is eagerly awaited, just like the Saturn.
Why does that indicate failure?
> It's hard to develop for, just like the Saturn.
Difficult for some developers, certainly - but by no means all of them. You only have to look at what some developers are already acheiving to know that not everyone is having problems.
> It costs a fortune, just like the Saturn.
It is a fair wad of money, but I don't consider it a fortune. Actually, if you consider an equivalent spec PC - 3D graphics accelerator, DVD-ROM drive, DTS/surround sound, USB ports, i-Link etc - it's actually quite a bargain.
> It's not as powerful as other consoles on the horizon, just like
> the Saturn.
True, but the Saturn was the 'equivalent' of the PlayStation - the only 'better' machine was N64, which wasn't really much of a leap, and had the drawback of being cartridge-based.
> It's predecessor (PS) was hugely popular, just like the Saturn's
> (Mega Drive).
Is that relevant? PS2 will stand or fall on its own merits, not those of PS1.
Saturn didn't fail because Mega Drive was successful, it failed because the games industry didn't support it - something which is clearly not the case with PS2, as should by now be evident to those with even the most blinkered view!
> This doesn't neccesarily mean that the PS2 WILL go the same way as
> the Saturn but the EVIDENCE IS there.
All that you've mentioned is simply comparison and speculation, it is not evidence.
> In a years time, people who want a cheap console will buy a
> Dreamcast (it'll be £100) people who want the most powerful
> multi media, games playing, DVD compatable console will chose the
> Xbox
Why do you automatically assume that X-Box will be a runaway success? The final spec isn't decided on yet, and if that last spec sheet I saw was based on anything genuine, Microsoft would also be making a huge loss if they were to sell it at around £200.
> and the PS2 won't be any cheaper (unless Sony are prepared to
> lose enough money to build an army) than the Gamecube which out
> powers it and can do anything the PS2 can do except DVD movies.
Nintendo themselves have said that they don't see themselves competing with PS2, as their machine is a dedicated games console rather than a complete home entertainment system. I think there could be two battles - Sega/Nintendo for the games-only market, and Sony/Microsoft for the home entertainment system.
> Also, most of the developers who made the PS a success could well
> leave it for an easier system to make games for (that happened to
> the Saturn too).
With the number of games in development, that seems unlikely. There are already more PS2 games in development than the Saturn had in its entire life cycle.
Saturn had a Catch-22 situation - the industry waited to see how it sold, and the potential buyers were waiting to see what games appeared.
Sony have hardly had to advertise PS2 and all launch allocations have sold out. Thus the games industry knows that there is a fortune to be made, and the games will continue to flow. As they get used to the system, production time and costs will fall, games will improve, and everyone will be happy.
> I'm not saying don't buy a PS2 but there is no way Sony can
> possibly make a profit out of it!
Game sales in Japan have been slow. However, with the US and UK/Euro markets just taking off, games sales will rocket. It is estimated that around 30% of Japanese buyers bought the PS2 primarily as a DVD player, because dedicated DVD players are expensive in Japan - hence the rocket in Jap DVD sales and slow games take-up. In the US, UK and Europe, the machine will be bought primarily as a games machine, and this will be reflected in software sales. This will also help turn around Sony's profits with regard to PS2.
Many of the original Japanese launch titles have been/are being improved for the UK launch, as Western gamers are far more demanding (DoA2 and TTT have had major graphical makeovers), and the machine is getting rave reviews in the US.
I've seen nothing *anywhere* that indicates that PS2 is likely to fail. I am rapidly forming the opinion that most of the hot air of this kind is coming from people who - for whatever reason - would *like* to see Sony's new machine fail. The only solid link between much of the negative speculation is an air of wishful thinking.
>
> The PS2 is eagerly awaited, just like the Saturn.
Why does that indicate failure?
> It's hard to develop for, just like the Saturn.
Difficult for some developers, certainly - but by no means all of them. You only have to look at what some developers are already acheiving to know that not everyone is having problems.
> It costs a fortune, just like the Saturn.
It is a fair wad of money, but I don't consider it a fortune. Actually, if you consider an equivalent spec PC - 3D graphics accelerator, DVD-ROM drive, DTS/surround sound, USB ports, i-Link etc - it's actually quite a bargain.
> It's not as powerful as other consoles on the horizon, just like
> the Saturn.
True, but the Saturn was the 'equivalent' of the PlayStation - the only 'better' machine was N64, which wasn't really much of a leap, and had the drawback of being cartridge-based.
> It's predecessor (PS) was hugely popular, just like the Saturn's
> (Mega Drive).
Is that relevant? PS2 will stand or fall on its own merits, not those of PS1.
Saturn didn't fail because Mega Drive was successful, it failed because the games industry didn't support it - something which is clearly not the case with PS2, as should by now be evident to those with even the most blinkered view!
> This doesn't neccesarily mean that the PS2 WILL go the same way as
> the Saturn but the EVIDENCE IS there.
All that you've mentioned is simply comparison and speculation, it is not evidence.
> In a years time, people who want a cheap console will buy a
> Dreamcast (it'll be £100) people who want the most powerful
> multi media, games playing, DVD compatable console will chose the
> Xbox
Why do you automatically assume that X-Box will be a runaway success? The final spec isn't decided on yet, and if that last spec sheet I saw was based on anything genuine, Microsoft would also be making a huge loss if they were to sell it at around £200.
> and the PS2 won't be any cheaper (unless Sony are prepared to
> lose enough money to build an army) than the Gamecube which out
> powers it and can do anything the PS2 can do except DVD movies.
Nintendo themselves have said that they don't see themselves competing with PS2, as their machine is a dedicated games console rather than a complete home entertainment system. I think there could be two battles - Sega/Nintendo for the games-only market, and Sony/Microsoft for the home entertainment system.
> Also, most of the developers who made the PS a success could well
> leave it for an easier system to make games for (that happened to
> the Saturn too).
With the number of games in development, that seems unlikely. There are already more PS2 games in development than the Saturn had in its entire life cycle.
Saturn had a Catch-22 situation - the industry waited to see how it sold, and the potential buyers were waiting to see what games appeared.
Sony have hardly had to advertise PS2 and all launch allocations have sold out. Thus the games industry knows that there is a fortune to be made, and the games will continue to flow. As they get used to the system, production time and costs will fall, games will improve, and everyone will be happy.
> I'm not saying don't buy a PS2 but there is no way Sony can
> possibly make a profit out of it!
Game sales in Japan have been slow. However, with the US and UK/Euro markets just taking off, games sales will rocket. It is estimated that around 30% of Japanese buyers bought the PS2 primarily as a DVD player, because dedicated DVD players are expensive in Japan - hence the rocket in Jap DVD sales and slow games take-up. In the US, UK and Europe, the machine will be bought primarily as a games machine, and this will be reflected in software sales. This will also help turn around Sony's profits with regard to PS2.
Many of the original Japanese launch titles have been/are being improved for the UK launch, as Western gamers are far more demanding (DoA2 and TTT have had major graphical makeovers), and the machine is getting rave reviews in the US.
I've seen nothing *anywhere* that indicates that PS2 is likely to fail. I am rapidly forming the opinion that most of the hot air of this kind is coming from people who - for whatever reason - would *like* to see Sony's new machine fail. The only solid link between much of the negative speculation is an air of wishful thinking.
Hey Everybody!
i just bought a PS2. With 2 Canadian 7% taxes the whopping tottal was $512.97 I then procceded to add Madden 2001, 1 sony memory card and the sony S-video cable. Ouch! add another $190.00
Somebody is going to be making a fortune off this thing.
So now all the sony's in North America are sold out. There's an auction site called ebay.com I've heard some Playstaions have sold there for more than $1500.00 american.
It's a tight little machine. Try the game SSX (snowboarding) !!trully stellar!!
However i still believe the system to be in the next five years is the x-box. the info is out there, and numbers dont lie. read up and chose wisely.
or
you could be like me and think: If it's faster and better i'm getting it.
spoken like a true gamer >;]
i just bought a PS2. With 2 Canadian 7% taxes the whopping tottal was $512.97 I then procceded to add Madden 2001, 1 sony memory card and the sony S-video cable. Ouch! add another $190.00
Somebody is going to be making a fortune off this thing.
So now all the sony's in North America are sold out. There's an auction site called ebay.com I've heard some Playstaions have sold there for more than $1500.00 american.
It's a tight little machine. Try the game SSX (snowboarding) !!trully stellar!!
However i still believe the system to be in the next five years is the x-box. the info is out there, and numbers dont lie. read up and chose wisely.
or
you could be like me and think: If it's faster and better i'm getting it.
spoken like a true gamer >;]
Page: