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"Triforce"

Well I never believed it would have this much effect, when Nintendo announced the TRIFORCE arcade board I was never that excited, Arcade games were never my thing and I never honestly believed Nintendo would have anything to do with it. For those that don’t know what I’m on about the Triforce Arcade Board is an attempt to save the failing Arcade industry. The two major companies in the Arcade business is Namco and SEGA.

Namco’s arcade history has been a successful one, Time Crisis has always been a popular shooting game and Tekken is the daddy of Arcade beat ‘em ups along with Soul Calibur. SEGA’s Arcade library is a little more extensive, SEGA Rally is the biggest driving game in the arcade industry, House of the Dead is the most popular shooter, Crazy Taxi has inspired many to new heights, Virtual Fighter is on par with Namco’s Tekken, Virtual Striker is the only successful Arcade football game and Super Monkey Ball is brilliant beyond comparison. Meanwhile Nintendo are not part of the Arcade industry, they don’t make arcade games they concentrate on the home market. So when Triforce was announced (Triforce is the name of the main item in Zelda, the item is 3 powers combined in this case Namco, Nintendo and SEGA) I believed Nintendo would supply the technology as the board is based on Gamecube hardware and the other two would develop games. This made me hope that relationships between Nintendo and those two massive third party developers would improve with maybe Crazy Taxi 3, Jet Set Radio Future, House of the Dead 3, Tekken 4 and Time Crisis 2 coming to the Gamecube. Other than that very small hope I didn’t expect much and so basically I read it shrugged my shoulders and moved away. Well now I realize that the TRIFORCE Arcade board has a much larger effect than I initially thought.

When Namco announced Soul Calibur 2 on the arcade’s wont be using TRIFORCE I began to wonder what the two companies were working on and if they will be coming to the Cube. SEGA were the first to reveal the game they were working on, in fact two of them and I was shocked at what it was. F Zero is a massive Nintendo title, appearing on all Nintendo consoles released since the SNES accept the Gameboy Color. Main star Captain Falcon appeared in Smash Brothers that soon led to a successful run on the Gameboy Advance, soon after Captain Falcon reappeared in the sequel to Smash Brothers with his very own track. Surly Nintendo would want to beat Wipeout Fusion with a new F Zero title; it seemed so likely magazines even put the game on the release list. But no one predicted that SEGA would be the one heading the title, for both the Gamecube and the Arcades using Triforce. Amusement Vision (makers of Super Monkey Ball and Virtual Striker) are the SEGA team in charge of the F Zero GC (GameCube) and F Zero AC (arcade) games. With promised interactivity between the Gamecube and Arcade versions via memory cards I realized that the TRIFORCE arcade board isn’t as uninteresting as it first thought.

So what are Namco working on then, one of their own titles like Tekken or Ridge Racer or one of Nintendo’s own. Well I should have seen it coming, the best style of game Nintendo have other than F Zero for the Arcade’s are Mario Kart and Starfox and Starfox is the closest to F Zero. But with RARE developing Starfox Adventures it didn’t seem likely especially with space scenes occurring within it keeping with the normal Starfox theme. How wrong were we, a few days ago rumors spread that Nintendo are working with Namco on a new Starfox game for both the Arcade and the Gamecube and it suddenly became obvious. And today it is confirmed, Namco are indeed working on Starfox with a release of a poster (and the announcement of other new titles including a Gamecube racer (like Ridge Racer), an RPG and a Tales series title) the game will be a space shooter in a similar style to the N64 original. Starfox first appeared on the Super Nintendo in a game called Starfox, it used the new 3D style graphics also used in F Zero on the SNES, it was re-released early on in the N64’s life, better graphics, more levels, different weapons and a multiplayer mode made it an excellent N64 title developed by Zelda and Mario creator Shiguru Miyamoto. Starfox leaped out of his ship in an attempt to save Dinosaur Planet from General Scales in Rare’s upcoming adventure Starfox Adventures, whether Namco’s version is another update of the original or an entire new adventure is yet to be seen but whatever it is, it is sure to be great.

So Nintendo’s involvement in the TRIFORCE is a lot more than the hardware, in fact the only games using it at the moment are Nintendo branded products. SEGA has always had a close relationship with Nintendo both Sonic Team and Amusement Vision has been releasing exclusives for the Gamecube (AM2’s recent exclusive announcements for Virtual Fighter RPG and Beach Spikers also shows support from them) and this is set to bring the two giants closer together. Namco and Nintendo had a shady past on the N64 but now with joint games and many announcements (already more than N64) Nintendo’s attempt to work closer with 3rd party developers is proving to be successful.

Here’s to the future

Dringo.

Dringo, thank you for contradicting yourself, and proving my point...

"Oh and the fact is these games are different, they aren't arcade games with the intention of a console release, but a console games with the intention of arcade release. "

So, what you're saying is that the games that will appear on Troforce are console games... which is what I've been saying for the last few posts!

There won't be any new games developed that wouldn't have appeared on the GC anyway!

"The fact is if Triforce does prove incredible to use then Tekken arcade games along with Time crisis will start appearing on them and these are two major Namco series of games not on the Gamecube... yet."


But you just said that the games will be console games that will get arcade releases! Tekken is developed as being a PS2 game, and hence will get released on the 246. Namco won't go, "Oh! The Triforce is soooo easy to use that we'll NOT makie it on the infintely better selling PS2 format- we'll adopt that GC!".

Sonic

Sonic how many companies relations need improving or would be worthwhile bettering.

SEGA, Konami (old Ninty friends that are starting to wonder off) and Namco all of which make arcade games.

Oh and the fact is these games are different, they aren't arcade games with the intention of a console release, but a console games with the intention of arcade release.

The fact is if Triforce does prove incredible to use then Tekken arcade games along with Time crisis will start appearing on them and these are two major Namco series of games not on the Gamecube... yet.

Look at these stats on the N64 (which Namco called crap), Two games released one awful about Mickey Mouse and one awsome that was just Ridge Racer.

On the Gamecube already announced are:

Dead to Rights, Mr. Driller, Tales of Phantasia, unamed RPG, next Ridge Racer game, Soul Calibur 2 and many more...

On the GBA there is Tekken and with 8 titles still to come.

Dringo, name any arcade games that were not made for the intention to be ported onto a console? In fact, the only examples I can think of are those that Sega made after the Saturn collapsed- and most of them ended up on the DC anyway!

No one will decide, "Right, their a new arcade board... we have to make a game for it!" The thinking will be more like: "Right, we have this game lined up for the GC, let's put it into the aracdes first to increase profit, and hopefully interest people in the game."

But what has to do it is this: You say that the Triforce will be great for 3rd pary relations. So, who actually makes arcade games? Sega, Namco, and errrr....

No really, if it's going to do loads for 3rd parties, name a company that makes more than a handful of arcade games each year. Just looking at JAMMA last year (the Japanese coin-op show), Sega took most of the space and namco took almost all the rest. The only other people memorable were developers who were finnishing SNK's games after the company collapsed.

Sonic

Do you think of their was no Triforce their would be a Starfox on the cube?, I strongly disagree was this as Rare are making Starfox Adventures. I believe you underestimate the use of the triforce, you don't know who are making what for it, you dont seem to realize how well this is doing for Nintendo's third party relations (remember what happened when Capcom worked with Nintendo on Zelda what could happen with Namco???), you don't know what data will be transfered from Arcade to Gamecube, you don't know what starfox and F Zero would be like and you don't known how the Gamecube and arcade games will differ.

Just already it is looking promising far more promising when i first looked into it.

Dringo wrote:
> SEGA and Namco approached Nintendo, and the linking of the arcades
> will be a new feature, you underestimate it like i did young sonic.

This is in NO WAY new- Sega have had their arcades linked up all over Japan for over a year now, as well as intorducing the card system.

Basically, this announcement isn't that big at all for the following reasons:

1) Arcades aren't big in the West anyway!

2) There isn't a company that makes games for arcades, and then ports them to consoles. All developers do is think "We're making a game for console X. Arcade board Y is based on X. So we'll release it on the arcade first to get a bit of interest". It doesn't actually get developers making any new games at all for the console, just porting some game ideas to the arcade. Prime example: F zero. If the Triforce didn't exist, the game would still be made exactly the same as it is now. However, since Triforce exists, the game will be ported onto the board. It's not like developers are making an extra game for the new board!

3) Arcade sales are dying. There just isn't enough to keep the Japanese gamers coming, esp with consoles getting ports of all the big arcade games.

4) The Naomi board is by far the most used arcade board, and is cheaper to develop for than the Triforce. Being out for longer, it also hasd more development tools. Seeing how Sega have just pumped loads of money into the Hikaru board (at the same time as they were making Trioforce), it doesn't display anything like the amount of faith in the Triforce as you'd imagaine.

5) Let's face facts- Sega make most of the arcade games out there (60% last year). Namco follow closely. BOTH have pumped loads of money into new boards (Namco into system 246 upgrading, Sega into the Hikaru). Both own most of the arcades in Japan (Sony own a few too). ALL the boards in their arcades are Naomi's or 246's (because Triforce is new of course). Most of the gimmicks that Sega and Namco have made to get gamers into arcades (networking, cards etc) are based on these boards (the Sega arcade network is made for Naomi boards). Do you REALLY expect Sega to develop another gaming arcade network for the Triforce? After all the money they've just put into the Naomi nbetwork (that Hikaru should also work on?). I think not.


The only real reason for Namco and Sega developing the Triforce is so that they can port their GC games onto it. It's in their interest to do this since they own so many arcades. By having the new GC titles in their arcades before consoles, it should increase profit. Of course, they couldn't put GC games onto the existing Naopmi or 246 boards, because these are so different to the GC, and it would require lots of resources. So, instead they just made this board.

That's all it is: getting GC games into Sega and Namco's arcades first to make some money.

Sonic

SEGA and Namco approached Nintendo, and the linking of the arcades will be a new feature, you underestimate it like i did young sonic.

Right, going back to the original point of the topic, the impact that the Triforce arcade board will have...

The arcade sector is as follows: Sega own 60% of it, Namco own almost all the rest, and the most used arcade boards are the PS2 based System 246 (made by Namco) and the Naomi board (made by Sega). (For those in the know, I've ignored the Model 3 and Hikaru boards... just pretend they're naomi boards!).

So, Nintendo want to create an arcade board based on the GC- after all, it should give them arcade ports, and more interest in the console... So they get funding from Namco, and tell Sega to make a console based on the GC- and the Triforce was produced...

Now, Ninty have done a pretty good job- by involving the 2 biggest arcade games makers (and arcade owners) they guarantee getting some good games. They've even got Amusement Vision (part of Sega) to make F-zero for it.

However, although the arcade board will be a success (after all, Sega and namco will undoubtedly use it some of the time!), I doubt it'll make a huge impact on the console...

You see, most of the arcade games being releassed nowadays would have gone onto console if the arcade option was not open to begin with. Name an arcade game that hasn't! The arcade board won't really pull people onto the format that weren't going to go onto it anyway.

With Naomi, the idea was slightly different. Because the Dreamcast was identical to the Naomi, it meant that all the games that sega had made in the years following the Saturn's death could be ported from the arcade to the the console

With system 246, namco developers who knew their way around the PS2 could easily make games for arcade too. This is waht Ninty are aiming for- getting the games into arcades as well as onto the console.

Hopefully games like Fzero will attract more customers to the console, but, to be honest, few arcades exist outside Japan anyway...

sonic

===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> Dringo, maybe you missed what I said...
>
> AM1, 2 and 3 make the majority of Sega's arcade games. None of these
> departments have any big plans for the GC.
>
> I doubt any will use the Triforce board.
>
> AV are a much smaller department (AM2 has 12 production teams, AV has
> 3/4).
>
> "Gamecube exclusive company Amusment Vision"
> So explain why Rez is on the PS2 and DC, but not GC? What about Space
> channel 5?

I said basically exclusive, AV has done some ports on to the PS2 yes but whole new titles are on the cube.

Dringo, maybe you missed what I said...

AM1, 2 and 3 make the majority of Sega's arcade games. None of these departments have any big plans for the GC.

I doubt any will use the Triforce board.

AV are a much smaller department (AM2 has 12 production teams, AV has 3/4).

"Gamecube exclusive company Amusment Vision"
So explain why Rez is on the PS2 and DC, but not GC? What about Space channel 5?

Sonic

===SONICRAV---> wrote:

> Seeing as Sega make 60% of the arcade games on the market, and most of
> them are made by AM1,2&3 (AKA Hitmaker, AM2 and WOW entertainemt)

What about AV.