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Although Dringo and I agree that Nintendo are the best, we never seem to be able to agree why! :-D
He says that Metroid Prime is true to its predecessors.
I say otherwise. Why?
Because it's a FPS game. And what's wrong with that?
Well you'll see as I go along.
Today, I'm going to tell you how I'd make Super Metroid into 3D.
To start with, lets look at the interface.
You control a red space bounty hunter in red armour, moving her left and right with the D-pad.
So to make it 3D, I'd have a Samus moving around on screen, controlled by the analogue stick - Mario 64 style.
Now by pressing the buttons on the Snes pad, I find that I can make Samus jump, duck, roll, shoot, and change weapon.
Likewise, in a Gamecube version, the big button would be to jump, the left shoulder button to shoot, and using the other 3 buttons to duck/roll/change weapon.
Now I have Samus running around on the screen, performing all these moves, running and jumping like a treat. All is not well though. You see, when I press “shoot”, Samus shoots what’s directly in front of her.
This is fine for shooting doors and stationary objects, only it’s not going to be any good for shooting a moving enemy, especially when there’s no way of aiming up or down.
This is where we bring in an aiming mode.
What better way to aim than to go into a first person style?
This could be done by pressing R to go into aiming mode.
In this mode, the camera would zoom in, Samus would become transparent and the control style would change. There would also be a cross hair on the screen.
Now we still have the jump/duck/shoot as normal, only the two analogue sticks now go into a Halo style of control where one moves forwards/backwards and the other is to look around.
So Samus can be jumping, rolling and accurately shooting simultaneously. It would be hard to get used to doing all things at once but it would come with practice.
And besides, there could be an auto aim for the easier difficulty settings.
Ofcourse, sometimes you don’t want to mess around with jumping and holding down R all the time to aim. When you just want to be able to aim and shoot with minimum fuss, simply tap Z to go into First Person mode with that neat little visor view.
What I’ve done is basically translated Super Metroid into 3D. The controls aren’t perfect and would need a little refining but are basically on the right track..
I think that this was how Retro was making the game, only about a year back, one of two things went wrong.
Either, Retro wasn’t up to the task and couldn’t make this control system run smoothly, or the system was far too complex for simplistic Shigsy to get to grips with (he’s not into shooters remember). It’s probably even a bit of both, but either way, it led to a change of direction for the game.
It was dumbed down to a pure FPS game.
Now we won’t see Samus jumping, rolling and maneuvering while blasting away hordes of ugly quick aliens. Now we won’t see Samus bouncing of walls, jumping across lava streams and bottomless pits.
Yeah, there’s rolling but its been made into more of a gimmick than a practical move.
And I know that Metroid Prime will still probably be a good game.
But it’s been done the wrong way and won’t be a proper Metroid game.
That’s the way I see it. How would you make a Metroid game?
He says that Metroid Prime is true to its predecessors.
I say otherwise. Why?
Because it's a FPS game. And what's wrong with that?
Well you'll see as I go along.
Today, I'm going to tell you how I'd make Super Metroid into 3D.
To start with, lets look at the interface.
You control a red space bounty hunter in red armour, moving her left and right with the D-pad.
So to make it 3D, I'd have a Samus moving around on screen, controlled by the analogue stick - Mario 64 style.
Now by pressing the buttons on the Snes pad, I find that I can make Samus jump, duck, roll, shoot, and change weapon.
Likewise, in a Gamecube version, the big button would be to jump, the left shoulder button to shoot, and using the other 3 buttons to duck/roll/change weapon.
Now I have Samus running around on the screen, performing all these moves, running and jumping like a treat. All is not well though. You see, when I press “shoot”, Samus shoots what’s directly in front of her.
This is fine for shooting doors and stationary objects, only it’s not going to be any good for shooting a moving enemy, especially when there’s no way of aiming up or down.
This is where we bring in an aiming mode.
What better way to aim than to go into a first person style?
This could be done by pressing R to go into aiming mode.
In this mode, the camera would zoom in, Samus would become transparent and the control style would change. There would also be a cross hair on the screen.
Now we still have the jump/duck/shoot as normal, only the two analogue sticks now go into a Halo style of control where one moves forwards/backwards and the other is to look around.
So Samus can be jumping, rolling and accurately shooting simultaneously. It would be hard to get used to doing all things at once but it would come with practice.
And besides, there could be an auto aim for the easier difficulty settings.
Ofcourse, sometimes you don’t want to mess around with jumping and holding down R all the time to aim. When you just want to be able to aim and shoot with minimum fuss, simply tap Z to go into First Person mode with that neat little visor view.
What I’ve done is basically translated Super Metroid into 3D. The controls aren’t perfect and would need a little refining but are basically on the right track..
I think that this was how Retro was making the game, only about a year back, one of two things went wrong.
Either, Retro wasn’t up to the task and couldn’t make this control system run smoothly, or the system was far too complex for simplistic Shigsy to get to grips with (he’s not into shooters remember). It’s probably even a bit of both, but either way, it led to a change of direction for the game.
It was dumbed down to a pure FPS game.
Now we won’t see Samus jumping, rolling and maneuvering while blasting away hordes of ugly quick aliens. Now we won’t see Samus bouncing of walls, jumping across lava streams and bottomless pits.
Yeah, there’s rolling but its been made into more of a gimmick than a practical move.
And I know that Metroid Prime will still probably be a good game.
But it’s been done the wrong way and won’t be a proper Metroid game.
That’s the way I see it. How would you make a Metroid game?
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The original idea is to pick up Super Metroid and make it 3D.
A game where you can't see Samus clearly isn't that! :-)
Admit it, although Metroid Prime looks lovely, and has a fair few of Super Metroids trademark elements, it goes about the main gameplay in a completely different way, almost alienating the platforming, a major part of the Snes classic.
A game where you can't see Samus clearly isn't that! :-)
Admit it, although Metroid Prime looks lovely, and has a fair few of Super Metroids trademark elements, it goes about the main gameplay in a completely different way, almost alienating the platforming, a major part of the Snes classic.
I think Strafex is moving further and further away from his original idea.
Yes jumping and hook shot sucks a little (just a little) maybe Retro can fix it with third person sections but despite these apparent problems it still won game of E3.
Yes jumping and hook shot sucks a little (just a little) maybe Retro can fix it with third person sections but despite these apparent problems it still won game of E3.
Spin jumping in first person?
Head-aches garuanteed!!!
Play any FPS game.
The jumping sections really, really suck!
Jumping can only be done properly in third person.
In first person it's almost impossible to judge right, and even when you get the hang of it you have to go really slowly!
What Retro SHOULD have done, it taken the best from third person AND first person.
First Person better for looking and aiming (can't be done properly in third person), third person better for manuavering and jumping (can't really be done so well in first person).
I think they have done it to an extent (having both first and third person sections), but I'd rather they'd have done it properly, letting you choose which one to use, when you want to use it or even combine both of them (like Jet Force Gemini's aiming mode) to combine the best of both.
Still, they're only human.
Head-aches garuanteed!!!
Play any FPS game.
The jumping sections really, really suck!
Jumping can only be done properly in third person.
In first person it's almost impossible to judge right, and even when you get the hang of it you have to go really slowly!
What Retro SHOULD have done, it taken the best from third person AND first person.
First Person better for looking and aiming (can't be done properly in third person), third person better for manuavering and jumping (can't really be done so well in first person).
I think they have done it to an extent (having both first and third person sections), but I'd rather they'd have done it properly, letting you choose which one to use, when you want to use it or even combine both of them (like Jet Force Gemini's aiming mode) to combine the best of both.
Still, they're only human.
Again, I'll await the actual release of the game, but so far the features both of you have mentioned seem great additions to me, and if the game winning best game of E3 didn't convince you I don't know what will...
You do jump, you do blow down walls, you do do all the stuff samus used to and rumours suggest spin jumps are done in third person. Seems fine to me,
Come on Dringo, we're not finished yet! :-)
Somehow, I don't buy your idea of Metroid "was meant to be FPS but couldn't be done".
If Samus was meant to be purely to look around and to shoot, why was she given so many fantastic jumping based moves?
If you weren't supposed to see Samus, why did they take so much time to devellop such a well designed and beautifully animated character?
The fact that Shigsy said that Metroid isn't about jumping shows that he doesn't understand it like Metroids creator did. Unfortunately, this creator happens to be dead and can't be here to make a proper Metroid game.
Now I understand that it is still supposedly a good game with good features. Everyone who's seen it has been impressed.
But it is NOT the Super Metroid in 3D that I wanted.
All these wonderful features in Prime like the scanning mode etc... could easily have been included in a Super Metroid 3D which would've had an OPTIONAL FPS view for when you needed it.
That way, the gameplay could've mixed platforming/shooting and action.
I know that Shigsy has insisted "It's First Person Exploration".
But what does that mean? That you look around your surroundings a lot and explore the caves? How many FPS games DON'T do that?
Basically, a Super Metroid in 3D would let you see the beatifully designed character you were controlling.
She would be doing loads of platforming/shooting/exploring, seamlessly morphing into a ball (I know that Prime lets you morph into a ball, but it's hardly seamless if you need to change camera to do so!!!) and kicking off walls Super Mario 64 style while blowing away big ugly aliens.
She'd have been the sort of kick-ass character that would've made the likes of Lara Croft and Solid Snake look lame.
As an FPS game itself, Metroid Prime is probably amazing.
As a Metroid game, it should've been something more special.
And as big as Metroid Prime will probably be (I'll probably find it amazing), a Super Metroid 3D could have been even bigger.
If Samus was meant to be purely to look around and to shoot, why was she given so many fantastic jumping based moves?
If you weren't supposed to see Samus, why did they take so much time to devellop such a well designed and beautifully animated character?
The fact that Shigsy said that Metroid isn't about jumping shows that he doesn't understand it like Metroids creator did. Unfortunately, this creator happens to be dead and can't be here to make a proper Metroid game.
Now I understand that it is still supposedly a good game with good features. Everyone who's seen it has been impressed.
But it is NOT the Super Metroid in 3D that I wanted.
All these wonderful features in Prime like the scanning mode etc... could easily have been included in a Super Metroid 3D which would've had an OPTIONAL FPS view for when you needed it.
That way, the gameplay could've mixed platforming/shooting and action.
I know that Shigsy has insisted "It's First Person Exploration".
But what does that mean? That you look around your surroundings a lot and explore the caves? How many FPS games DON'T do that?
Basically, a Super Metroid in 3D would let you see the beatifully designed character you were controlling.
She would be doing loads of platforming/shooting/exploring, seamlessly morphing into a ball (I know that Prime lets you morph into a ball, but it's hardly seamless if you need to change camera to do so!!!) and kicking off walls Super Mario 64 style while blowing away big ugly aliens.
She'd have been the sort of kick-ass character that would've made the likes of Lara Croft and Solid Snake look lame.
As an FPS game itself, Metroid Prime is probably amazing.
As a Metroid game, it should've been something more special.
And as big as Metroid Prime will probably be (I'll probably find it amazing), a Super Metroid 3D could have been even bigger.
Took my time didn't I???? :)
Strafex wrote:
>
> It was dumbed down to a pure FPS game.
Remember it is an FPS Adventure game, not an FPS. Shigsy did not choose this style stop blaming him dammit he has only just took control sorting a few problems out.
> Now we won’t see Samus jumping, rolling and maneuvering while blasting
> away hordes of ugly quick aliens. Now we won’t see Samus bouncing of
> walls, jumping across lava streams and bottomless pits.
And you know this because? The fact is the thid person transition will change to other parts as well.
> Yeah, there’s rolling but its been made into more of a gimmick than a
> practical move.
And you know this because you played the game.
Strafex you are making presumptions, Shigsy always planned for Mario to be like Mario 64 and Zelda to be like OOT but never had the power to do it. Samus could never be FPS on the SNES so the made it a side scroller, it may of always planned out this way. The fact is you haven't played the game, we don't know what is different about it and why Nintendo insist it isn't just the next Halo.
Metroid looks good, the helmet idea and third person sections will be vital to the game and it will be massive. Either A: Wait until you play it or B: Check the playable version of E3 at tommorows show.
Strafex wrote:
>
> It was dumbed down to a pure FPS game.
Remember it is an FPS Adventure game, not an FPS. Shigsy did not choose this style stop blaming him dammit he has only just took control sorting a few problems out.
> Now we won’t see Samus jumping, rolling and maneuvering while blasting
> away hordes of ugly quick aliens. Now we won’t see Samus bouncing of
> walls, jumping across lava streams and bottomless pits.
And you know this because? The fact is the thid person transition will change to other parts as well.
> Yeah, there’s rolling but its been made into more of a gimmick than a
> practical move.
And you know this because you played the game.
Strafex you are making presumptions, Shigsy always planned for Mario to be like Mario 64 and Zelda to be like OOT but never had the power to do it. Samus could never be FPS on the SNES so the made it a side scroller, it may of always planned out this way. The fact is you haven't played the game, we don't know what is different about it and why Nintendo insist it isn't just the next Halo.
Metroid looks good, the helmet idea and third person sections will be vital to the game and it will be massive. Either A: Wait until you play it or B: Check the playable version of E3 at tommorows show.
Dringo. You can't hide for ever.
Face it! The new Metroid is WRONG! :-D
Face it! The new Metroid is WRONG! :-D
Seeing as a psi-powers don't work, I'll just have to POP!
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