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One thing I hate in games more than when some spotty 15 years old kid activates the infinite life cheat in an online game is when computer controlled players decide to do the same thing.
Take Mario Kart 64. After doing a HUGE cheat yourself, thus putting the rest of the pack a lap down, they somehow always managed to gain huge amounts of ground on you by the end of the race- how?
Now that is just plain annoying. But what's even worse is when the game developer makes their characters cheat to hide flaws in AI. So, for example, you could give them perfect shooting accuracy to make up for the fact they will randomly walk out from doorways rather than wait for you to blindly walk in!
You know, it never really strickes you how bad AI is until you do things you're not expected to do. So, instead of going out of the underground bunker, you instead run back inside it, and hide in a room. At which point a million guards all run to where you are, knowing your exact position! Complete nonsense!
In all honesty, the only game I've played in the last year that really does make the computer characters have their own intelligence, rather than giving them a load of preprogrammed scenarios, is Halo. The computer players will wait until you need to reload, they have an eliment of randomness to their attacks so they never do the same thing twice (even if you do), and they even (SHOCK) make mistakes as human players will. On harder settings they seem to act like more advanced human players- not just computer players with higher accuracy ratings!
But enough ranting about one game- why don't developers make great AI for their computer characters. Developers like Bungie and Halo put in months of effort, so why not many more?
Well, the answer is that if they keep supplying gamers with non-inteligent computer players, then gamers will just not know the difference. And it's true! Enemies now are no more advanced than they were in Goldeneye... and looking at the game, the enemies literally had no brains in that!
So, why code a great AI engine when you can just adapt a new one with a few more scenarios- how about having enemies beg for their lives every so often when you shoot the gun out of their hands? In the short term it sounds great, but in the long term it just means that the whole intelignece in games is being lost.
sonic
Take Mario Kart 64. After doing a HUGE cheat yourself, thus putting the rest of the pack a lap down, they somehow always managed to gain huge amounts of ground on you by the end of the race- how?
Now that is just plain annoying. But what's even worse is when the game developer makes their characters cheat to hide flaws in AI. So, for example, you could give them perfect shooting accuracy to make up for the fact they will randomly walk out from doorways rather than wait for you to blindly walk in!
You know, it never really strickes you how bad AI is until you do things you're not expected to do. So, instead of going out of the underground bunker, you instead run back inside it, and hide in a room. At which point a million guards all run to where you are, knowing your exact position! Complete nonsense!
In all honesty, the only game I've played in the last year that really does make the computer characters have their own intelligence, rather than giving them a load of preprogrammed scenarios, is Halo. The computer players will wait until you need to reload, they have an eliment of randomness to their attacks so they never do the same thing twice (even if you do), and they even (SHOCK) make mistakes as human players will. On harder settings they seem to act like more advanced human players- not just computer players with higher accuracy ratings!
But enough ranting about one game- why don't developers make great AI for their computer characters. Developers like Bungie and Halo put in months of effort, so why not many more?
Well, the answer is that if they keep supplying gamers with non-inteligent computer players, then gamers will just not know the difference. And it's true! Enemies now are no more advanced than they were in Goldeneye... and looking at the game, the enemies literally had no brains in that!
So, why code a great AI engine when you can just adapt a new one with a few more scenarios- how about having enemies beg for their lives every so often when you shoot the gun out of their hands? In the short term it sounds great, but in the long term it just means that the whole intelignece in games is being lost.
sonic
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This happens when the printer you are trying to use is unavailable on a network. The printout 'jumps' to the next available printer which is usually the default printer.
Try printing a test page - does it also come out of the wrong printer?
If you do not have a printer actually attached to your own computer and usually print to a network printer try adding a 'ghost' printer on your own machine. Set it up as an IBM Proprinter II on a local port and let Windows install all the drivers. Set this as the default printer.
We have seen this effect in TPN Lite and TPN Depot.
Try printing a test page - does it also come out of the wrong printer?
If you do not have a printer actually attached to your own computer and usually print to a network printer try adding a 'ghost' printer on your own machine. Set it up as an IBM Proprinter II on a local port and let Windows install all the drivers. Set this as the default printer.
We have seen this effect in TPN Lite and TPN Depot.
The AI is terrible in some games, especially in FPS's, on the easiest mode! I've never seen one kill another in Perfect Dark, but they do completely miss you from very close range, and hit you from miles away!
I saw something funny in Goldeneye recently, it was in the mission after the Jungle (I think?), there were a group of sodiers shooting at me, and oe threw a grenade. I was gunna do the same but he just somehow though it infront of him, killing the lot of them!! Funny, and it saved me ammo!
I also remember playing Doom once, and I set the game to a Deathmatch Showdown mode in multiplayer or something, not the normal missions. All the beasts and stuff killed each other first, then I killed the one remaining one! EASY!!
So the Ai isn't always that intellegent, and can be real stupid and mess up! I say enjoy it now untill it gets changed.
I saw something funny in Goldeneye recently, it was in the mission after the Jungle (I think?), there were a group of sodiers shooting at me, and oe threw a grenade. I was gunna do the same but he just somehow though it infront of him, killing the lot of them!! Funny, and it saved me ammo!
I also remember playing Doom once, and I set the game to a Deathmatch Showdown mode in multiplayer or something, not the normal missions. All the beasts and stuff killed each other first, then I killed the one remaining one! EASY!!
So the Ai isn't always that intellegent, and can be real stupid and mess up! I say enjoy it now untill it gets changed.
I don't think AI is THAT bad... sometimes pretty good. Jet Force Gemini had some good AI in there. At times I've been waiting in a corridor picking off bad guys in the next room, and two baddies hide either side of the passageway I'm in, and both pop out at the same time and open up rounds on me simultaneosly. That was pretty good. And when I was disguised as a bad guy to get into the Insect Disco, and there's the queue to get in and the two huge bouncers, I hid, killed one bouncer, and the other bouncer thought it was the queue of Ant baddies lined up to get in, and he started shooting at them!!! Oh, how I laughed! This has happened to me about twice in Perfect Dark as well, enemies killing each other, but I don't know if it was meant to happen or just a glitch... still, I thought it was funny!
oh, this topics not about shaneo.
Ah, congmon, maybe you could answer my questions...
How could you make AI better for harder difficulty levels without just giving the computer a load more pre-programmed scenarios, or better accuracy... actually give them better intelligence?
Oh, and how do you go around making AI. Neural nets? Functional Programming?
Sonic
How could you make AI better for harder difficulty levels without just giving the computer a load more pre-programmed scenarios, or better accuracy... actually give them better intelligence?
Oh, and how do you go around making AI. Neural nets? Functional Programming?
Sonic
Do any of you know how hard it actually is to program AI? Speaking as someone on a programming course, I know how huge a neural network (decision table) has to be even get a computer controlled sprite to walk through a room without bumping into anything! What do you expect from a game that prgrammers are throwing out for £30 a copy, on a relatively low powered when massive reasrch teams can't even manage to get decent AI algorithms running on state-of-the-art computers?
El Burro wrote:
> MoJoJoJo wrote:
Don't forget H&D! And SOF, the AI
> on that sure
> was funny!
Please dont make me even have to think about
> them... im feeling depressed now...
--------------
Ha ha, painful memories eh?
SOF wasn't TOO bad, but H&D - oh man, even after the patches they still ran around in circles and got shot every two seconds!
> MoJoJoJo wrote:
Don't forget H&D! And SOF, the AI
> on that sure
> was funny!
Please dont make me even have to think about
> them... im feeling depressed now...
--------------
Ha ha, painful memories eh?
SOF wasn't TOO bad, but H&D - oh man, even after the patches they still ran around in circles and got shot every two seconds!
MoJoJoJo wrote:
> El Burro wrote:
> believe me there are many who feel the same, i feel so
> had, the amount of
> £30 wasted, grrr is all i can say, tribes 2, oh
> dont even get me started
> on that abnormality of a
> game...
-------------
Don't forget H&D! And SOF, the AI on that sure
> was funny!
Please dont make me even have to think about them... im feeling depressed now...
> El Burro wrote:
> believe me there are many who feel the same, i feel so
> had, the amount of
> £30 wasted, grrr is all i can say, tribes 2, oh
> dont even get me started
> on that abnormality of a
> game...
-------------
Don't forget H&D! And SOF, the AI on that sure
> was funny!
Please dont make me even have to think about them... im feeling depressed now...
El Burro wrote:
> believe me there are many who feel the same, i feel so had, the amount of
> £30 wasted, grrr is all i can say, tribes 2, oh dont even get me started
> on that abnormality of a game...
-------------
Don't forget H&D! And SOF, the AI on that sure was funny!
> believe me there are many who feel the same, i feel so had, the amount of
> £30 wasted, grrr is all i can say, tribes 2, oh dont even get me started
> on that abnormality of a game...
-------------
Don't forget H&D! And SOF, the AI on that sure was funny!
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