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One thing I hate in games more than when some spotty 15 years old kid activates the infinite life cheat in an online game is when computer controlled players decide to do the same thing.
Take Mario Kart 64. After doing a HUGE cheat yourself, thus putting the rest of the pack a lap down, they somehow always managed to gain huge amounts of ground on you by the end of the race- how?
Now that is just plain annoying. But what's even worse is when the game developer makes their characters cheat to hide flaws in AI. So, for example, you could give them perfect shooting accuracy to make up for the fact they will randomly walk out from doorways rather than wait for you to blindly walk in!
You know, it never really strickes you how bad AI is until you do things you're not expected to do. So, instead of going out of the underground bunker, you instead run back inside it, and hide in a room. At which point a million guards all run to where you are, knowing your exact position! Complete nonsense!
In all honesty, the only game I've played in the last year that really does make the computer characters have their own intelligence, rather than giving them a load of preprogrammed scenarios, is Halo. The computer players will wait until you need to reload, they have an eliment of randomness to their attacks so they never do the same thing twice (even if you do), and they even (SHOCK) make mistakes as human players will. On harder settings they seem to act like more advanced human players- not just computer players with higher accuracy ratings!
But enough ranting about one game- why don't developers make great AI for their computer characters. Developers like Bungie and Halo put in months of effort, so why not many more?
Well, the answer is that if they keep supplying gamers with non-inteligent computer players, then gamers will just not know the difference. And it's true! Enemies now are no more advanced than they were in Goldeneye... and looking at the game, the enemies literally had no brains in that!
So, why code a great AI engine when you can just adapt a new one with a few more scenarios- how about having enemies beg for their lives every so often when you shoot the gun out of their hands? In the short term it sounds great, but in the long term it just means that the whole intelignece in games is being lost.
sonic
Take Mario Kart 64. After doing a HUGE cheat yourself, thus putting the rest of the pack a lap down, they somehow always managed to gain huge amounts of ground on you by the end of the race- how?
Now that is just plain annoying. But what's even worse is when the game developer makes their characters cheat to hide flaws in AI. So, for example, you could give them perfect shooting accuracy to make up for the fact they will randomly walk out from doorways rather than wait for you to blindly walk in!
You know, it never really strickes you how bad AI is until you do things you're not expected to do. So, instead of going out of the underground bunker, you instead run back inside it, and hide in a room. At which point a million guards all run to where you are, knowing your exact position! Complete nonsense!
In all honesty, the only game I've played in the last year that really does make the computer characters have their own intelligence, rather than giving them a load of preprogrammed scenarios, is Halo. The computer players will wait until you need to reload, they have an eliment of randomness to their attacks so they never do the same thing twice (even if you do), and they even (SHOCK) make mistakes as human players will. On harder settings they seem to act like more advanced human players- not just computer players with higher accuracy ratings!
But enough ranting about one game- why don't developers make great AI for their computer characters. Developers like Bungie and Halo put in months of effort, so why not many more?
Well, the answer is that if they keep supplying gamers with non-inteligent computer players, then gamers will just not know the difference. And it's true! Enemies now are no more advanced than they were in Goldeneye... and looking at the game, the enemies literally had no brains in that!
So, why code a great AI engine when you can just adapt a new one with a few more scenarios- how about having enemies beg for their lives every so often when you shoot the gun out of their hands? In the short term it sounds great, but in the long term it just means that the whole intelignece in games is being lost.
sonic
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One thing I hate in games more than when some spotty 15 years old kid activates the infinite life cheat in an online game is when computer controlled players decide to do the same thing.
Take Mario Kart 64. After doing a HUGE cheat yourself, thus putting the rest of the pack a lap down, they somehow always managed to gain huge amounts of ground on you by the end of the race- how?
Now that is just plain annoying. But what's even worse is when the game developer makes their characters cheat to hide flaws in AI. So, for example, you could give them perfect shooting accuracy to make up for the fact they will randomly walk out from doorways rather than wait for you to blindly walk in!
You know, it never really strickes you how bad AI is until you do things you're not expected to do. So, instead of going out of the underground bunker, you instead run back inside it, and hide in a room. At which point a million guards all run to where you are, knowing your exact position! Complete nonsense!
In all honesty, the only game I've played in the last year that really does make the computer characters have their own intelligence, rather than giving them a load of preprogrammed scenarios, is Halo. The computer players will wait until you need to reload, they have an eliment of randomness to their attacks so they never do the same thing twice (even if you do), and they even (SHOCK) make mistakes as human players will. On harder settings they seem to act like more advanced human players- not just computer players with higher accuracy ratings!
But enough ranting about one game- why don't developers make great AI for their computer characters. Developers like Bungie and Halo put in months of effort, so why not many more?
Well, the answer is that if they keep supplying gamers with non-inteligent computer players, then gamers will just not know the difference. And it's true! Enemies now are no more advanced than they were in Goldeneye... and looking at the game, the enemies literally had no brains in that!
So, why code a great AI engine when you can just adapt a new one with a few more scenarios- how about having enemies beg for their lives every so often when you shoot the gun out of their hands? In the short term it sounds great, but in the long term it just means that the whole intelignece in games is being lost.
sonic
Take Mario Kart 64. After doing a HUGE cheat yourself, thus putting the rest of the pack a lap down, they somehow always managed to gain huge amounts of ground on you by the end of the race- how?
Now that is just plain annoying. But what's even worse is when the game developer makes their characters cheat to hide flaws in AI. So, for example, you could give them perfect shooting accuracy to make up for the fact they will randomly walk out from doorways rather than wait for you to blindly walk in!
You know, it never really strickes you how bad AI is until you do things you're not expected to do. So, instead of going out of the underground bunker, you instead run back inside it, and hide in a room. At which point a million guards all run to where you are, knowing your exact position! Complete nonsense!
In all honesty, the only game I've played in the last year that really does make the computer characters have their own intelligence, rather than giving them a load of preprogrammed scenarios, is Halo. The computer players will wait until you need to reload, they have an eliment of randomness to their attacks so they never do the same thing twice (even if you do), and they even (SHOCK) make mistakes as human players will. On harder settings they seem to act like more advanced human players- not just computer players with higher accuracy ratings!
But enough ranting about one game- why don't developers make great AI for their computer characters. Developers like Bungie and Halo put in months of effort, so why not many more?
Well, the answer is that if they keep supplying gamers with non-inteligent computer players, then gamers will just not know the difference. And it's true! Enemies now are no more advanced than they were in Goldeneye... and looking at the game, the enemies literally had no brains in that!
So, why code a great AI engine when you can just adapt a new one with a few more scenarios- how about having enemies beg for their lives every so often when you shoot the gun out of their hands? In the short term it sounds great, but in the long term it just means that the whole intelignece in games is being lost.
sonic
Nice post.
I agree with the Al thing in Goldeneye. The guards seem to come to exactly where you are all the time and they never seem to end. That last bit meaning, there are always guards coming at you. No matter how many you kill they still come. But this isn't just in older generation consoles. It happens in GTA3 too. Both of those things I just mentioned. It's something game developers tend not to pay much attention to.
Is Halo really that clever in gaming Al though???
I agree with the Al thing in Goldeneye. The guards seem to come to exactly where you are all the time and they never seem to end. That last bit meaning, there are always guards coming at you. No matter how many you kill they still come. But this isn't just in older generation consoles. It happens in GTA3 too. Both of those things I just mentioned. It's something game developers tend not to pay much attention to.
Is Halo really that clever in gaming Al though???
project igi 2 ai is looking good after some off the shocking stuff in the firsts. Ressurecting guards and guards who run to certain places before shooting
AfroJoe wrote:
Is Halo really that clever in gaming Al
> though???
I played through the same level twice trying out the AI... I did everything exactly the same, and saw what happened. From the start, the enemies reacted differently- hiding behind different posts, and attacking at different times. The reason is, apparantly, that Bungie have put randomness into computer player's reactions, making then act in different ways to the same situation.
There are, of course, still moments of complete computer idiocity- but these are few and far between, and actually seem to be just like what inexperienced human players would do.
The guards even wait for back ups some times, and will wait for you to come to them- even if they hear the gunfire in the room you're in!
sonic
Is Halo really that clever in gaming Al
> though???
I played through the same level twice trying out the AI... I did everything exactly the same, and saw what happened. From the start, the enemies reacted differently- hiding behind different posts, and attacking at different times. The reason is, apparantly, that Bungie have put randomness into computer player's reactions, making then act in different ways to the same situation.
There are, of course, still moments of complete computer idiocity- but these are few and far between, and actually seem to be just like what inexperienced human players would do.
The guards even wait for back ups some times, and will wait for you to come to them- even if they hear the gunfire in the room you're in!
sonic
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> AfroJoe wrote:
Is Halo really that clever in gaming Al
>
> though???
I played through the same level twice trying out the AI... I
> did everything exactly the same, and saw what happened. From the start, the
> enemies reacted differently- hiding behind different posts, and attacking at
> different times. The reason is, apparantly, that Bungie have put randomness into
> computer player's reactions, making then act in different ways to the same
> situation.
There are, of course, still moments of complete computer idiocity-
> but these are few and far between, and actually seem to be just like what
> inexperienced human players would do.
The guards even wait for back ups some
> times, and will wait for you to come to them- even if they hear the gunfire in
> the room you're in!
sonic
---------
Cool, if only GC shooters were that good...... Perfect Dark Zero, I want you!!!
> AfroJoe wrote:
Is Halo really that clever in gaming Al
>
> though???
I played through the same level twice trying out the AI... I
> did everything exactly the same, and saw what happened. From the start, the
> enemies reacted differently- hiding behind different posts, and attacking at
> different times. The reason is, apparantly, that Bungie have put randomness into
> computer player's reactions, making then act in different ways to the same
> situation.
There are, of course, still moments of complete computer idiocity-
> but these are few and far between, and actually seem to be just like what
> inexperienced human players would do.
The guards even wait for back ups some
> times, and will wait for you to come to them- even if they hear the gunfire in
> the room you're in!
sonic
---------
Cool, if only GC shooters were that good...... Perfect Dark Zero, I want you!!!
a la Perfect Dark?
Tony_Blair wrote:
> a la Perfect Dark?
------
They weren't as smart as they could be in Perfect Dark.
> a la Perfect Dark?
------
They weren't as smart as they could be in Perfect Dark.
AfroJoe wrote:
> Tony_Blair wrote:
> a la Perfect Dark?
------
They weren't as smart as
> they could be in Perfect Dark.
pardon monseuir!!!!!!!!
> Tony_Blair wrote:
> a la Perfect Dark?
------
They weren't as smart as
> they could be in Perfect Dark.
pardon monseuir!!!!!!!!
Afro, please stop spamming... it's just plain annoying...
You're quoting whole messages just to say "I agree" and not much more....
Sonic
You're quoting whole messages just to say "I agree" and not much more....
Sonic
he has got a point
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