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I get frustrated playing games. I do!
I find frustration a real barrier in enjoying gaming. One of the reasons I love Metal Gear Solid so much was that it wasn't too hard. Nothing too tricky or really frustrating. The bosses could take 2 or 3 goes, but that was fine, and I steadily got through the game, loving every minute of it.
Now lets take a couple of games for example. Now, most of you know my opinion on Mario games *COUGH* rubbish *COUGH*, and it was not improved by Super Mario Advance on, would you believe it, GameBoy Advance. Apart from being a complete rip-off, in which Nintendo have taken 2 old games and stuck them into one, it's also intensely annoying. Why?? Well, just to add to pain of the amazingly repetive music, this game is unbelievably frustrating!! If I hear Luigi or his fat brother cry "MUM-AM-MIA!!" one more time while seemingly falling under the screen, I reckon I'll put the GBA into an incinarator, or something to that effect.
Frustrating = boring, you see? Going through the same environment, with the same character, against the same enemies with the same weapons and items just gets dull after a while, and in the end I just can't be bothered to get through to the next stage! Why cause myself the trouble, when I could just go and play something like SSX Tricky or This Is Football 2002, where I can get into the action and hopefully the fun straight away??
Max Payne on the PS2 is a much more recent example. There is now a large dent in my lovely (well, formerly) wooden desk, and it is thanks to Max Payne. No, he didn't jump out of the game shoot madly at me like he seemingly does to everyone else, nor was it because I'd become so addicted to it that my brother, who wanted a go, tried to hit me with the TV Remote and missed (that's happened before by the way, and he doesn't always miss).
This dent happened during the 8th Chapter of the first part. After shooting some more people (massive surprise), I found myself slowly walking across some roof rafters. As I teetered along, I knew that a fall would lead me to my death. Now, it took a fair while getting there thanks to a large amount of men with Ingrams and Shotguns. So, it was rather annoying when I fell halfway across.
On my second go I got a little further, and then, my thumb gave a little spasm. I was taking the slow approach, and due to the camera angle I couldn't tell whether I was walking in a straight line or not/ So every few centimetres I moved to my left a little, desperately trying to stay on my feet. As I said, my thumb gave a little, unintentional jump and I fell right off, and Max Payne fell very calmly to his untimely death.
Lets fast-forward to my 5th go, where I was extremely close to the small doorway which led me to the next stage. It looked as though I just had to walk in a straight line, although I was a little worried about the size of the doorway. In the end I plucked up courage and just ran forward. I reached the door and breathed a sigh of relief. However, Max Payne appeared to be walking into the wall just next to the door, and I was soon falling feet-first to the harsh ground beneath.
At this point I screeched loudly, and threw my controller at the desk. I was supposed to be enjoying this game, not raving and ranting over some stupid rafters on a roof!! I want to have fun playing games, or at least be interested in what I'm doing, not just getting plain frustrated! If I wanted to get frustrated, I'd support Chelsea!
But, on a calmer note, Max Payne is actually an excellent game up to and past that point, so I recommend it to everyone.
Also on a calmer, but a little more louder than the last note, I think developers need to know that some games are just too frustrating. Platformers are especially good at it, as I explained with Mario and all his little, colourful friends.
But then again, maybe I'm just completely bonkers. Who knows, eh?
Thanks for reading, Ant.
I find frustration a real barrier in enjoying gaming. One of the reasons I love Metal Gear Solid so much was that it wasn't too hard. Nothing too tricky or really frustrating. The bosses could take 2 or 3 goes, but that was fine, and I steadily got through the game, loving every minute of it.
Now lets take a couple of games for example. Now, most of you know my opinion on Mario games *COUGH* rubbish *COUGH*, and it was not improved by Super Mario Advance on, would you believe it, GameBoy Advance. Apart from being a complete rip-off, in which Nintendo have taken 2 old games and stuck them into one, it's also intensely annoying. Why?? Well, just to add to pain of the amazingly repetive music, this game is unbelievably frustrating!! If I hear Luigi or his fat brother cry "MUM-AM-MIA!!" one more time while seemingly falling under the screen, I reckon I'll put the GBA into an incinarator, or something to that effect.
Frustrating = boring, you see? Going through the same environment, with the same character, against the same enemies with the same weapons and items just gets dull after a while, and in the end I just can't be bothered to get through to the next stage! Why cause myself the trouble, when I could just go and play something like SSX Tricky or This Is Football 2002, where I can get into the action and hopefully the fun straight away??
Max Payne on the PS2 is a much more recent example. There is now a large dent in my lovely (well, formerly) wooden desk, and it is thanks to Max Payne. No, he didn't jump out of the game shoot madly at me like he seemingly does to everyone else, nor was it because I'd become so addicted to it that my brother, who wanted a go, tried to hit me with the TV Remote and missed (that's happened before by the way, and he doesn't always miss).
This dent happened during the 8th Chapter of the first part. After shooting some more people (massive surprise), I found myself slowly walking across some roof rafters. As I teetered along, I knew that a fall would lead me to my death. Now, it took a fair while getting there thanks to a large amount of men with Ingrams and Shotguns. So, it was rather annoying when I fell halfway across.
On my second go I got a little further, and then, my thumb gave a little spasm. I was taking the slow approach, and due to the camera angle I couldn't tell whether I was walking in a straight line or not/ So every few centimetres I moved to my left a little, desperately trying to stay on my feet. As I said, my thumb gave a little, unintentional jump and I fell right off, and Max Payne fell very calmly to his untimely death.
Lets fast-forward to my 5th go, where I was extremely close to the small doorway which led me to the next stage. It looked as though I just had to walk in a straight line, although I was a little worried about the size of the doorway. In the end I plucked up courage and just ran forward. I reached the door and breathed a sigh of relief. However, Max Payne appeared to be walking into the wall just next to the door, and I was soon falling feet-first to the harsh ground beneath.
At this point I screeched loudly, and threw my controller at the desk. I was supposed to be enjoying this game, not raving and ranting over some stupid rafters on a roof!! I want to have fun playing games, or at least be interested in what I'm doing, not just getting plain frustrated! If I wanted to get frustrated, I'd support Chelsea!
But, on a calmer note, Max Payne is actually an excellent game up to and past that point, so I recommend it to everyone.
Also on a calmer, but a little more louder than the last note, I think developers need to know that some games are just too frustrating. Platformers are especially good at it, as I explained with Mario and all his little, colourful friends.
But then again, maybe I'm just completely bonkers. Who knows, eh?
Thanks for reading, Ant.
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Or†ega wrote:
> MGS2 has about 4 different difficulty settings dont it?
I doubt it, otherwise the magazines wouldn't have complained about longevity.
> MGS2 has about 4 different difficulty settings dont it?
I doubt it, otherwise the magazines wouldn't have complained about longevity.
I get really annoyed off by some games often when theres a fault ie camera angles.
MGS2 has about 4 different difficulty settings dont it?
Ant wrote:
Ah, but it's still
> the same thing over and over! I got to the 4th level of Super Mario Advance,
> cheered, and then found myself doing basically the same thing.
Yeah well, Mario Advance was the weakest in the series.
Mario Advance 2 is much better.
And they're
> not mentally challenging. Just not being able to save when you want to annoys
> me.
They're not so much about mental tactics as the skill of controlling your character.
You save after completing every level! What more can you ask?
And I like MGS being relatively easy, it means the game flows, and a
> game like MGS needs to flow damn well. :)
I think that it could be easily broken down into level type set-pieces...
Maybe easy on "beginners setting" so you can play through the game for the storyline the first time and then there could be harder difficulty settings for when you want a challenge. That method worked well for Goldeneye and COULD work if Konami wanted to bother with it in MGS games.
As it is, I wouldn't pay 40 odd quid for a game that would last me less than 15 hours...
Ah, but it's still
> the same thing over and over! I got to the 4th level of Super Mario Advance,
> cheered, and then found myself doing basically the same thing.
Yeah well, Mario Advance was the weakest in the series.
Mario Advance 2 is much better.
And they're
> not mentally challenging. Just not being able to save when you want to annoys
> me.
They're not so much about mental tactics as the skill of controlling your character.
You save after completing every level! What more can you ask?
And I like MGS being relatively easy, it means the game flows, and a
> game like MGS needs to flow damn well. :)
I think that it could be easily broken down into level type set-pieces...
Maybe easy on "beginners setting" so you can play through the game for the storyline the first time and then there could be harder difficulty settings for when you want a challenge. That method worked well for Goldeneye and COULD work if Konami wanted to bother with it in MGS games.
As it is, I wouldn't pay 40 odd quid for a game that would last me less than 15 hours...
Or†ega wrote:
> Ant wrote:
Just not being able to save when you want to annoys
> me.
>
Just remember that this is becasue it is a straight conversion of a game
> that was made in the 80's. Most games in that era were desinged to be completed
> in one sitting!
That reminds me, Comix Zone!!
Even though this had no save points, I never got really frustrated with it. Strange...
> Ant wrote:
Just not being able to save when you want to annoys
> me.
>
Just remember that this is becasue it is a straight conversion of a game
> that was made in the 80's. Most games in that era were desinged to be completed
> in one sitting!
That reminds me, Comix Zone!!
Even though this had no save points, I never got really frustrated with it. Strange...
GasMask wrote:
> Ant wrote:
T
hanks for the reply Strafex, I'm
> glad I obviously got your
> attention.
*Cough* My post *Cough*
:o)
Yes Gassie, thanks for yours too. Great reply, why aren't you on MSN anymore??
> Ant wrote:
T
hanks for the reply Strafex, I'm
> glad I obviously got your
> attention.
*Cough* My post *Cough*
:o)
Yes Gassie, thanks for yours too. Great reply, why aren't you on MSN anymore??
Ant wrote:
Just not being able to save when you want to annoys
> me.
Just remember that this is becasue it is a straight conversion of a game that was made in the 80's. Most games in that era were desinged to be completed in one sitting!
Just not being able to save when you want to annoys
> me.
Just remember that this is becasue it is a straight conversion of a game that was made in the 80's. Most games in that era were desinged to be completed in one sitting!
Ant wrote:
T
hanks for the reply Strafex, I'm
> glad I obviously got your attention.
*Cough* My post *Cough*
:o)
T
hanks for the reply Strafex, I'm
> glad I obviously got your attention.
*Cough* My post *Cough*
:o)
Strafex wrote:
Seriously though, are you saying that as a "mature" gamer,
> that you don't have the skills and experience to beat and enjoy Nintendo's
> "kiddie" games, while you find you're "adult" Metal Gear
> Solid relatively easy?
Ah, but it's still the same thing over and over! I got to the 4th level of Super Mario Advance, cheered, and then found myself doing basically the same thing.
And they're not mentally challenging. Just not being able to save when you want to annoys me.
And I like MGS being relatively easy, it means the game flows, and a game like MGS needs to flow damn well. :)
Thanks for the reply Strafex, I'm glad I obviously got your attention. At least, to an extent. {:)
Seriously though, are you saying that as a "mature" gamer,
> that you don't have the skills and experience to beat and enjoy Nintendo's
> "kiddie" games, while you find you're "adult" Metal Gear
> Solid relatively easy?
Ah, but it's still the same thing over and over! I got to the 4th level of Super Mario Advance, cheered, and then found myself doing basically the same thing.
And they're not mentally challenging. Just not being able to save when you want to annoys me.
And I like MGS being relatively easy, it means the game flows, and a game like MGS needs to flow damn well. :)
Thanks for the reply Strafex, I'm glad I obviously got your attention. At least, to an extent. {:)
Mario Advance difficult and fustrating?
It's the nicest, easy going game of the entire 2D series (Mario 64 was a bit more forgiving...)!!
I think that being brought up on Playstation games has left you soft Ant (although it can't be ALL the Playstation's fault - Dringo is just as bad!! ;-D)
I have to say that I differ completely.
You liked Metal Gear Solid because it was fairly easy going, and by reviews, I'm guessing that you'll love MGS2 for similar reasons.
I, on the other hand, would blast through it within a week and think "WTF? Is THAT all? Far too easy..."
A bit like Conker's Bad Fur Day...
You see, having been brought up on the likes of Mario and Sonic, I'm used to the idea that games are hard and the challenge is part of the fun.
I too have thrown down my pad in fustration, especially on games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark (fustration haters - avoid the harder difficulty settings on these games at all costs!!), but the more fustrating a level was, the more satisfying it was to beat it, and it hardened me into a better gamer.
I think that difficulty curve is the key.
Games should start of easy to get you into the game (Mario Advance's first levels were incredibly easy. Surely you weren't stuck on them?!?!), and then later build up the diffculty, to keep you challenged so the game lasts longer (Mario Advance didn't actually get really hard. I didn't even really struggle in getting all the Yoshi eggs...).
Goldeneye was perfect in this case.
ANYONE could complete the Dam level on Agent, and it let you play around with the Sniper Rifle too.
It was fun from day one.
Most novice gamers could beat the game on Agent and then stop if they wanted.
Meanwhile, the more hardcore bunch who wanted a stronger challenge could attempt to play through 00 Agent for a serious challenge.
I took up this challenge. I my attempts to beat each level failed countless times, often resulting in a pad-floor impact, but I kept trying and got better and became a stronger gamesplayer as a result.
When I finally unlocked the All Guns cheat (in other words, I beat every level on 00 Agent), it felt like a huge achievement.
It seems that most of todays generation of gamers want these soft games in the same way that you do Ant.
Mario's mortality rate in Mario 64 dropped incredibly compared to his previous adventures.
It was still reasonably challenging to get all 120 stars but a pale challenge compared to the likes of beating Super Mario World on the Snes.
In Donkey Kong 64, the mortality rate was almost non-existant except when you had to fight bosses!
In Zelda 64 you could die quite easily but you didn't go back very far when you did die and you didn't lose much (but Zelda's always been like that - not really about a serious challenge).
I'd like to see more games with a classic style challenge.
Not so far back as pre-Snes challenge where gamers had to start from the very beginning when they lost all their lives (yes, I am soft compared to you smug ZX spectrum veterans!!), but I think that Super Mario World on the Snes had it about right.
You beat a few levels, you get to a castle/ghost house and then after beating that you get a chance to save.
This meant that you got punished for dying and meant that you had to beat most levels properly rather than fluke them the skin of your teeth once and never have to play them again.
But Nintendo don't think that their gamers are as tough as they used to be - in Mario Advance 2 (the GBA conversion of Super Mario World), you can save the game after EVERY level.
Ant, try Mario Advance 2. Mario Advance was the easiest (and crappest - although that's not a real put-down) of the entire series while Mario Advance 2 is the very best (probably best 2D platformer ever!!), so you might enjoy it a bit more. If you still find it too hard then I'd recommend the Gameboy Colour Zelda games - they're a bit more easy going.
Seriously though, are you saying that as a "mature" gamer, that you don't have the skills and experience to beat and enjoy Nintendo's "kiddie" games, while you find you're "adult" Metal Gear Solid relatively easy?
Does that still mean that these tough challenging games are STILL "kiddie"?
I think that you have something else to admit!! ;-D
It's the nicest, easy going game of the entire 2D series (Mario 64 was a bit more forgiving...)!!
I think that being brought up on Playstation games has left you soft Ant (although it can't be ALL the Playstation's fault - Dringo is just as bad!! ;-D)
I have to say that I differ completely.
You liked Metal Gear Solid because it was fairly easy going, and by reviews, I'm guessing that you'll love MGS2 for similar reasons.
I, on the other hand, would blast through it within a week and think "WTF? Is THAT all? Far too easy..."
A bit like Conker's Bad Fur Day...
You see, having been brought up on the likes of Mario and Sonic, I'm used to the idea that games are hard and the challenge is part of the fun.
I too have thrown down my pad in fustration, especially on games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark (fustration haters - avoid the harder difficulty settings on these games at all costs!!), but the more fustrating a level was, the more satisfying it was to beat it, and it hardened me into a better gamer.
I think that difficulty curve is the key.
Games should start of easy to get you into the game (Mario Advance's first levels were incredibly easy. Surely you weren't stuck on them?!?!), and then later build up the diffculty, to keep you challenged so the game lasts longer (Mario Advance didn't actually get really hard. I didn't even really struggle in getting all the Yoshi eggs...).
Goldeneye was perfect in this case.
ANYONE could complete the Dam level on Agent, and it let you play around with the Sniper Rifle too.
It was fun from day one.
Most novice gamers could beat the game on Agent and then stop if they wanted.
Meanwhile, the more hardcore bunch who wanted a stronger challenge could attempt to play through 00 Agent for a serious challenge.
I took up this challenge. I my attempts to beat each level failed countless times, often resulting in a pad-floor impact, but I kept trying and got better and became a stronger gamesplayer as a result.
When I finally unlocked the All Guns cheat (in other words, I beat every level on 00 Agent), it felt like a huge achievement.
It seems that most of todays generation of gamers want these soft games in the same way that you do Ant.
Mario's mortality rate in Mario 64 dropped incredibly compared to his previous adventures.
It was still reasonably challenging to get all 120 stars but a pale challenge compared to the likes of beating Super Mario World on the Snes.
In Donkey Kong 64, the mortality rate was almost non-existant except when you had to fight bosses!
In Zelda 64 you could die quite easily but you didn't go back very far when you did die and you didn't lose much (but Zelda's always been like that - not really about a serious challenge).
I'd like to see more games with a classic style challenge.
Not so far back as pre-Snes challenge where gamers had to start from the very beginning when they lost all their lives (yes, I am soft compared to you smug ZX spectrum veterans!!), but I think that Super Mario World on the Snes had it about right.
You beat a few levels, you get to a castle/ghost house and then after beating that you get a chance to save.
This meant that you got punished for dying and meant that you had to beat most levels properly rather than fluke them the skin of your teeth once and never have to play them again.
But Nintendo don't think that their gamers are as tough as they used to be - in Mario Advance 2 (the GBA conversion of Super Mario World), you can save the game after EVERY level.
Ant, try Mario Advance 2. Mario Advance was the easiest (and crappest - although that's not a real put-down) of the entire series while Mario Advance 2 is the very best (probably best 2D platformer ever!!), so you might enjoy it a bit more. If you still find it too hard then I'd recommend the Gameboy Colour Zelda games - they're a bit more easy going.
Seriously though, are you saying that as a "mature" gamer, that you don't have the skills and experience to beat and enjoy Nintendo's "kiddie" games, while you find you're "adult" Metal Gear Solid relatively easy?
Does that still mean that these tough challenging games are STILL "kiddie"?
I think that you have something else to admit!! ;-D
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