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My faith in Sony isn't quite that bad yet, but it is getting pretty near to breaking point.
What seemed like THE console back in 2001 is now looking like the modern day Saturn. Yes, Sony were first past the chequered flag with a "next-gen" console but at what cost to its loyal fans ?
Problems have plagued what should have been a console that no one, not Mr Gates or Mario, should have been able to take on. They include;
1) RGB Scart playback of DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries. As many will know cheap VCD copies of new films are readily obtainable in about every town and city of the country. This is a poor excuse for disabling such a feature.
2) Numerous faults and incompatability problems with TV's and DVD discs, and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR Missions. For what was a £300 console it isn't good enough.
3) Weak launch titles and many "great graphics where is the lastability/gameplay" titles. "INSERT GAME HERE" is dissapointing is a regualr topic for PS2 releases on just this same forum. Devil May Cry looked cool, but the novelty of the graphics wears away to reveal a game with little lastability. MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until you finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the original. There were supposed to be innovative features in this game but everyone knows them so what is the point, we all know about using the pron magazines to distract guards, that'sa gimmick, not innovation.
4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have gone from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to MGS 2...where is the next BIG game after FFX ? Even when a game is set for launch release dates are messed around with the excuse that added feature are to be added. Many of these big titles disappoint new owners - Resident Evil Code Veronica is a common one. Its good, but not WOW ! Many supposedly excellent titles fall way short when they come to a review. Headhunter was supposed to be nearly as good as MGS2, Dropship has graphics which make it look like a launch game...because it should have been..., Thunderhawk was rubbish, Ridge Racer 5 a poor conversion and on and on. Developers which were just PS2 developers are hedging their bets; GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to the Gamecube, the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube, Buffy - X Box and Gamecube, GT3 and GT4 to the PC. I won't be surprised if I hear what sounds like a band playing as it slips underwater.
I'm not someone who chops and changes consoles; I owned a PSONE for 4 years, then this PC and I bought the PS2 last year. But the Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty good, HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2. Many PS2 owners are attacking (verbaly thankfully :) ) supporters of these consoles with ideas ranging from "its purple", "you have to buy a DVD upgrade" to "there are no decent games". There are also many more, less to the point ones which serve to show little.
The fact is that both of these consoles have games by the bucketload, for launch, and come christmas Nintendo and Microsoft will be rolling out their BIG titles. These will look great, sound great and have massive advertising campaigns. Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly everyone buys their software and OS. Nintendo have a reputation for cute games, but they sell.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are getting now. They need to sort the PS2's technical problems once and for all, and get rid of the green screen scart problem. They need to do much more... and probably won't because I suspect that it's dawning on them that it is too late, the Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are playing on the track....
Or am I wrong ? Prove it :)
What seemed like THE console back in 2001 is now looking like the modern day Saturn. Yes, Sony were first past the chequered flag with a "next-gen" console but at what cost to its loyal fans ?
Problems have plagued what should have been a console that no one, not Mr Gates or Mario, should have been able to take on. They include;
1) RGB Scart playback of DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries. As many will know cheap VCD copies of new films are readily obtainable in about every town and city of the country. This is a poor excuse for disabling such a feature.
2) Numerous faults and incompatability problems with TV's and DVD discs, and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR Missions. For what was a £300 console it isn't good enough.
3) Weak launch titles and many "great graphics where is the lastability/gameplay" titles. "INSERT GAME HERE" is dissapointing is a regualr topic for PS2 releases on just this same forum. Devil May Cry looked cool, but the novelty of the graphics wears away to reveal a game with little lastability. MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until you finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the original. There were supposed to be innovative features in this game but everyone knows them so what is the point, we all know about using the pron magazines to distract guards, that'sa gimmick, not innovation.
4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have gone from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to MGS 2...where is the next BIG game after FFX ? Even when a game is set for launch release dates are messed around with the excuse that added feature are to be added. Many of these big titles disappoint new owners - Resident Evil Code Veronica is a common one. Its good, but not WOW ! Many supposedly excellent titles fall way short when they come to a review. Headhunter was supposed to be nearly as good as MGS2, Dropship has graphics which make it look like a launch game...because it should have been..., Thunderhawk was rubbish, Ridge Racer 5 a poor conversion and on and on. Developers which were just PS2 developers are hedging their bets; GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to the Gamecube, the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube, Buffy - X Box and Gamecube, GT3 and GT4 to the PC. I won't be surprised if I hear what sounds like a band playing as it slips underwater.
I'm not someone who chops and changes consoles; I owned a PSONE for 4 years, then this PC and I bought the PS2 last year. But the Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty good, HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2. Many PS2 owners are attacking (verbaly thankfully :) ) supporters of these consoles with ideas ranging from "its purple", "you have to buy a DVD upgrade" to "there are no decent games". There are also many more, less to the point ones which serve to show little.
The fact is that both of these consoles have games by the bucketload, for launch, and come christmas Nintendo and Microsoft will be rolling out their BIG titles. These will look great, sound great and have massive advertising campaigns. Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly everyone buys their software and OS. Nintendo have a reputation for cute games, but they sell.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are getting now. They need to sort the PS2's technical problems once and for all, and get rid of the green screen scart problem. They need to do much more... and probably won't because I suspect that it's dawning on them that it is too late, the Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are playing on the track....
Or am I wrong ? Prove it :)
Page:
Silent85 wrote:
> Well done wookie for giving the facts
Well done Silent85 for agreeing to the facts that Wookiee gave that I agreed, I thank you..... errrr, what did I say there? Can you translate that? :D
> Well done wookie for giving the facts
Well done Silent85 for agreeing to the facts that Wookiee gave that I agreed, I thank you..... errrr, what did I say there? Can you translate that? :D
.....* and applauds himself for raising his word count...*
(Sorry)
(Sorry)
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
> > 1) RGB Scart playback of
> DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous
> copying worries.
Not a 'problem', but a deliberate move. You can play DVD's
> in colour with perfectly good picture quality through the lead supplied with the
> PS2. If you want RGB through SCART, you can buy DVD RegionX. Gamecube doesn't
> play DVD's at all, Xbox needs an add-on - which in my view negates the cost of
> DVD RegionX - and which doesn't allow multi-region playback.
> 2)
> Numerous faults and incompatability problems with
> TV's and DVD
> discs
I'm not aware of any compatibility problems with TV's at all. Some
> discs do not play, but then many dedicated low-end players also have the same
> problem, and on PS2 many of these issues are solved with the updated
> driver.
> , and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR
>
> Missions. For what was a £300 console
> it isn't good enough.
There
> are a handful of PSone games which won't work, and *most* of these are obscure
> Japanese titles. Metal Gear VR Missions is but one popular title that won't
> work. Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over
> 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or
> since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try
> it at all. Of course, you could always keep your PSone to play PSone games -
> just like N64 owners will have to do, whether they like it or not.
> 3)
> Weak launch titles and many "great graphics
> where is the
> lastability/gameplay" titles.
Still with the launch titles after more
> than a year? Wow. It really is time people looked beyond this. Even so, while
> they weren't outstanding, they certainly weren't all 'weak'.
Lastability is a
> moot point, as it's personal opinion. Some games last some people far longer
> than others. Also, blaming the PS2 or Sony is totally unfair, as the problem
> lies with the developers - the very same developers who will be making games for
> Gamecube and Xbox.
> MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until
> you
> finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the
> original.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't expect the
> gameplay to be any different, aside from new moves and new touches. The
> gameplay of the original is classic, innovative, and addictiive. Anyone who
> played the demo will know that the gameplay itself is largely unchanged, and so
> is unlikely to be disappointed with that aspect.
> There were supposed to
> be innovative features in this
> game but everyone knows them so what is the
> point
You can blame that on the magazines and websites for blowing the cover
> on those, and also the staggered release dates. I believe that the game
> justifies the hype, but the hype has definitley spoiled it for many people - not
> because the game fails, but because most of the secrets have been
> revealed.
> 4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have
> gone
> from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to
> MGS 2...where
> is the next BIG game after FFX ?
This is just Human Nature - everyone, on all
> platforms, is the same - they get one thing, then ask... "What's
> next?" I believe this is driven by both good and bad games. Get a good
> game; think: "Wow! Great! If this what we have now, what else is to
> come?" Get a bad game: "Pah! Crap! What's next? It must be
> better." "Big" games are personal taste and opinion. Personally
> I couldn't give a monkey's about FFX - I had FFVII, didn't like it, won't buy
> another. My "big" games are: Dropship, Wipeout Fusion, The Getaway,
> Stuntman, Run Like Hell, Onimusha 2, Medal of Honour: Frontline, Maximo, Toca
> Race Driver, Oni ... and more. Oh, and to prove my point... you say Thunderhawk
> was rubbish, but I love it.
> Developers which were just PS2 developers
> are
> hedging their bets
Some developers are producing exclusives simply
> because they've been paid to do so, not because of any real system preference.
> It's a common misonception, at least on these boards, that because developers
> are going multi-platform they are deserting the PS2. That is not the
> case.
Sony had many exclusives with PSone simply because there was no viable
> other platform from which developers could make money. Saturn/Dreamcast never
> really got off the ground, and the same can be said of the N64. Gamecube and
> Xbox look like they will sell well - so there is money to be made, hence
> developers are returning to multi-platform development. And that is the key
> word - 'returning'. The industry is not moving away from Sony, it is simply
> returning to a more balanced state.
> GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to
> the Gamecube
Unconfirmed as far as I know, but Rockstar recently said they
> don't see it as a platform for their games. Even so, "going to
> Gamecube" does not necessarily mean it *won't* be appearing on other
> platforms.
> the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube
Because it was
> paid for.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not
> sure.
> GT3 and GT4 to the PC.
I don't see how you can count this as
> a loss, when Sony have the rights and it is they who gave permission for the
> title to appear on PC. This, presumably, is because the next GT will be
> online-compatible, and being available to PC owners may have a significant
> knock-on effect and increase PS2 sales, online viability etc.
> But the
> Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty
> good
I agree, I'm
> considering both - but I won't be losing my PS2, that's for sure. I don't see
> it has to be "either/or" - if you can get all three, there's nothing
> stopping you. If you can't, you get the one which suits you best - and that
> depends on the games you want. While Xbox and Gamecube will have many good
> games, I still think that PS2 will have the best overall selection.
>
> HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2.
I would say that Halo is just
> like every other FPS, if prettier. And yes, I have read the non-biased Edge
> review, but I'm still unconvinced that it's significantly different to any other
> PC FPS. That said, it is coming to PC, and my PC packs more punch,
> so...
> These will look great, sound great and have
> massive
> advertising campaigns.
And Sony won't?
Remember, Sony have a HUGE
> head-start in sales alone, and from what I've read, no-one seriously expects
> either Microsoft or Nintendo to overhaul them in a hurry. Xbox and Gamecube
> sold well in the run up to Xmas, but PS2 sales - already good - were up 82% in
> December!
> Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly
>
> everyone buys their software and OS.
True - but in the OS market there's
> little in the way of viable alternatives.
> Nintendo have a reputation
> for cute games, but they sell.
But they didn't shift many N64's, just as
> Sega's "great games" didn't shift many Dreamcasts. This isn't a dig
> at them - just telling it like it is.
Of course, Sega have now gone
> multi-platform, and Nintendo aren't relying on "cute" games
> alone.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just
>
> shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are
> getting
> now.
But look at the 'top' Xbox games - Halo (shooter),
> Wreckless (GTA3), Project Gotham (Racing) and so on.
The titles heading for
> Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
The
> "great" titles are copies or conversions of titles already on PS2,
> which you say is unoriginal and needs great games.
> the
> Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are
> playing
> on the track....
But then, they're so far up the line that
> anything could happen. Derailment, points jam... wrong type of games on the
> line...
*Applauds Wookiee for a brilliant speech.*
> > 1) RGB Scart playback of
> DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous
> copying worries.
Not a 'problem', but a deliberate move. You can play DVD's
> in colour with perfectly good picture quality through the lead supplied with the
> PS2. If you want RGB through SCART, you can buy DVD RegionX. Gamecube doesn't
> play DVD's at all, Xbox needs an add-on - which in my view negates the cost of
> DVD RegionX - and which doesn't allow multi-region playback.
> 2)
> Numerous faults and incompatability problems with
> TV's and DVD
> discs
I'm not aware of any compatibility problems with TV's at all. Some
> discs do not play, but then many dedicated low-end players also have the same
> problem, and on PS2 many of these issues are solved with the updated
> driver.
> , and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR
>
> Missions. For what was a £300 console
> it isn't good enough.
There
> are a handful of PSone games which won't work, and *most* of these are obscure
> Japanese titles. Metal Gear VR Missions is but one popular title that won't
> work. Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over
> 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or
> since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try
> it at all. Of course, you could always keep your PSone to play PSone games -
> just like N64 owners will have to do, whether they like it or not.
> 3)
> Weak launch titles and many "great graphics
> where is the
> lastability/gameplay" titles.
Still with the launch titles after more
> than a year? Wow. It really is time people looked beyond this. Even so, while
> they weren't outstanding, they certainly weren't all 'weak'.
Lastability is a
> moot point, as it's personal opinion. Some games last some people far longer
> than others. Also, blaming the PS2 or Sony is totally unfair, as the problem
> lies with the developers - the very same developers who will be making games for
> Gamecube and Xbox.
> MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until
> you
> finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the
> original.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't expect the
> gameplay to be any different, aside from new moves and new touches. The
> gameplay of the original is classic, innovative, and addictiive. Anyone who
> played the demo will know that the gameplay itself is largely unchanged, and so
> is unlikely to be disappointed with that aspect.
> There were supposed to
> be innovative features in this
> game but everyone knows them so what is the
> point
You can blame that on the magazines and websites for blowing the cover
> on those, and also the staggered release dates. I believe that the game
> justifies the hype, but the hype has definitley spoiled it for many people - not
> because the game fails, but because most of the secrets have been
> revealed.
> 4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have
> gone
> from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to
> MGS 2...where
> is the next BIG game after FFX ?
This is just Human Nature - everyone, on all
> platforms, is the same - they get one thing, then ask... "What's
> next?" I believe this is driven by both good and bad games. Get a good
> game; think: "Wow! Great! If this what we have now, what else is to
> come?" Get a bad game: "Pah! Crap! What's next? It must be
> better." "Big" games are personal taste and opinion. Personally
> I couldn't give a monkey's about FFX - I had FFVII, didn't like it, won't buy
> another. My "big" games are: Dropship, Wipeout Fusion, The Getaway,
> Stuntman, Run Like Hell, Onimusha 2, Medal of Honour: Frontline, Maximo, Toca
> Race Driver, Oni ... and more. Oh, and to prove my point... you say Thunderhawk
> was rubbish, but I love it.
> Developers which were just PS2 developers
> are
> hedging their bets
Some developers are producing exclusives simply
> because they've been paid to do so, not because of any real system preference.
> It's a common misonception, at least on these boards, that because developers
> are going multi-platform they are deserting the PS2. That is not the
> case.
Sony had many exclusives with PSone simply because there was no viable
> other platform from which developers could make money. Saturn/Dreamcast never
> really got off the ground, and the same can be said of the N64. Gamecube and
> Xbox look like they will sell well - so there is money to be made, hence
> developers are returning to multi-platform development. And that is the key
> word - 'returning'. The industry is not moving away from Sony, it is simply
> returning to a more balanced state.
> GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to
> the Gamecube
Unconfirmed as far as I know, but Rockstar recently said they
> don't see it as a platform for their games. Even so, "going to
> Gamecube" does not necessarily mean it *won't* be appearing on other
> platforms.
> the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube
Because it was
> paid for.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not
> sure.
> GT3 and GT4 to the PC.
I don't see how you can count this as
> a loss, when Sony have the rights and it is they who gave permission for the
> title to appear on PC. This, presumably, is because the next GT will be
> online-compatible, and being available to PC owners may have a significant
> knock-on effect and increase PS2 sales, online viability etc.
> But the
> Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty
> good
I agree, I'm
> considering both - but I won't be losing my PS2, that's for sure. I don't see
> it has to be "either/or" - if you can get all three, there's nothing
> stopping you. If you can't, you get the one which suits you best - and that
> depends on the games you want. While Xbox and Gamecube will have many good
> games, I still think that PS2 will have the best overall selection.
>
> HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2.
I would say that Halo is just
> like every other FPS, if prettier. And yes, I have read the non-biased Edge
> review, but I'm still unconvinced that it's significantly different to any other
> PC FPS. That said, it is coming to PC, and my PC packs more punch,
> so...
> These will look great, sound great and have
> massive
> advertising campaigns.
And Sony won't?
Remember, Sony have a HUGE
> head-start in sales alone, and from what I've read, no-one seriously expects
> either Microsoft or Nintendo to overhaul them in a hurry. Xbox and Gamecube
> sold well in the run up to Xmas, but PS2 sales - already good - were up 82% in
> December!
> Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly
>
> everyone buys their software and OS.
True - but in the OS market there's
> little in the way of viable alternatives.
> Nintendo have a reputation
> for cute games, but they sell.
But they didn't shift many N64's, just as
> Sega's "great games" didn't shift many Dreamcasts. This isn't a dig
> at them - just telling it like it is.
Of course, Sega have now gone
> multi-platform, and Nintendo aren't relying on "cute" games
> alone.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just
>
> shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are
> getting
> now.
But look at the 'top' Xbox games - Halo (shooter),
> Wreckless (GTA3), Project Gotham (Racing) and so on.
The titles heading for
> Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
The
> "great" titles are copies or conversions of titles already on PS2,
> which you say is unoriginal and needs great games.
> the
> Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are
> playing
> on the track....
But then, they're so far up the line that
> anything could happen. Derailment, points jam... wrong type of games on the
> line...
*Applauds Wookiee for a brilliant speech.*
> 1) RGB Scart playback of
> DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries.
Not a 'problem', but a deliberate move. You can play DVD's in colour with perfectly good picture quality through the lead supplied with the PS2. If you want RGB through SCART, you can buy DVD RegionX. Gamecube doesn't play DVD's at all, Xbox needs an add-on - which in my view negates the cost of DVD RegionX - and which doesn't allow multi-region playback.
> 2) Numerous faults and incompatability problems with
> TV's and DVD discs
I'm not aware of any compatibility problems with TV's at all. Some discs do not play, but then many dedicated low-end players also have the same problem, and on PS2 many of these issues are solved with the updated driver.
> , and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR
> Missions. For what was a £300 console
> it isn't good enough.
There are a handful of PSone games which won't work, and *most* of these are obscure Japanese titles. Metal Gear VR Missions is but one popular title that won't work. Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try it at all. Of course, you could always keep your PSone to play PSone games - just like N64 owners will have to do, whether they like it or not.
> 3) Weak launch titles and many "great graphics
> where is the lastability/gameplay" titles.
Still with the launch titles after more than a year? Wow. It really is time people looked beyond this. Even so, while they weren't outstanding, they certainly weren't all 'weak'.
Lastability is a moot point, as it's personal opinion. Some games last some people far longer than others. Also, blaming the PS2 or Sony is totally unfair, as the problem lies with the developers - the very same developers who will be making games for Gamecube and Xbox.
> MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until you
> finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the original.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't expect the gameplay to be any different, aside from new moves and new touches. The gameplay of the original is classic, innovative, and addictiive. Anyone who played the demo will know that the gameplay itself is largely unchanged, and so is unlikely to be disappointed with that aspect.
> There were supposed to be innovative features in this
> game but everyone knows them so what is the point
You can blame that on the magazines and websites for blowing the cover on those, and also the staggered release dates. I believe that the game justifies the hype, but the hype has definitley spoiled it for many people - not because the game fails, but because most of the secrets have been revealed.
> 4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have gone
> from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to
> MGS 2...where is the next BIG game after FFX ?
This is just Human Nature - everyone, on all platforms, is the same - they get one thing, then ask... "What's next?" I believe this is driven by both good and bad games. Get a good game; think: "Wow! Great! If this what we have now, what else is to come?" Get a bad game: "Pah! Crap! What's next? It must be better." "Big" games are personal taste and opinion. Personally I couldn't give a monkey's about FFX - I had FFVII, didn't like it, won't buy another. My "big" games are: Dropship, Wipeout Fusion, The Getaway, Stuntman, Run Like Hell, Onimusha 2, Medal of Honour: Frontline, Maximo, Toca Race Driver, Oni ... and more. Oh, and to prove my point... you say Thunderhawk was rubbish, but I love it.
> Developers which were just PS2 developers are
> hedging their bets
Some developers are producing exclusives simply because they've been paid to do so, not because of any real system preference. It's a common misonception, at least on these boards, that because developers are going multi-platform they are deserting the PS2. That is not the case.
Sony had many exclusives with PSone simply because there was no viable other platform from which developers could make money. Saturn/Dreamcast never really got off the ground, and the same can be said of the N64. Gamecube and Xbox look like they will sell well - so there is money to be made, hence developers are returning to multi-platform development. And that is the key word - 'returning'. The industry is not moving away from Sony, it is simply returning to a more balanced state.
> GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to the Gamecube
Unconfirmed as far as I know, but Rockstar recently said they don't see it as a platform for their games. Even so, "going to Gamecube" does not necessarily mean it *won't* be appearing on other platforms.
> the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube
Because it was paid for.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not sure.
> GT3 and GT4 to the PC.
I don't see how you can count this as a loss, when Sony have the rights and it is they who gave permission for the title to appear on PC. This, presumably, is because the next GT will be online-compatible, and being available to PC owners may have a significant knock-on effect and increase PS2 sales, online viability etc.
> But the Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty
> good
I agree, I'm considering both - but I won't be losing my PS2, that's for sure. I don't see it has to be "either/or" - if you can get all three, there's nothing stopping you. If you can't, you get the one which suits you best - and that depends on the games you want. While Xbox and Gamecube will have many good games, I still think that PS2 will have the best overall selection.
> HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2.
I would say that Halo is just like every other FPS, if prettier. And yes, I have read the non-biased Edge review, but I'm still unconvinced that it's significantly different to any other PC FPS. That said, it is coming to PC, and my PC packs more punch, so...
> These will look great, sound great and have
> massive advertising campaigns.
And Sony won't?
Remember, Sony have a HUGE head-start in sales alone, and from what I've read, no-one seriously expects either Microsoft or Nintendo to overhaul them in a hurry. Xbox and Gamecube sold well in the run up to Xmas, but PS2 sales - already good - were up 82% in December!
> Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly
> everyone buys their software and OS.
True - but in the OS market there's little in the way of viable alternatives.
> Nintendo have a reputation for cute games, but they sell.
But they didn't shift many N64's, just as Sega's "great games" didn't shift many Dreamcasts. This isn't a dig at them - just telling it like it is.
Of course, Sega have now gone multi-platform, and Nintendo aren't relying on "cute" games alone.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just
> shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are getting
> now.
But look at the 'top' Xbox games - Halo (shooter), Wreckless (GTA3), Project Gotham (Racing) and so on.
The titles heading for Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
The "great" titles are copies or conversions of titles already on PS2, which you say is unoriginal and needs great games.
> the Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are playing
> on the track....
But then, they're so far up the line that anything could happen. Derailment, points jam... wrong type of games on the line...
> DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries.
Not a 'problem', but a deliberate move. You can play DVD's in colour with perfectly good picture quality through the lead supplied with the PS2. If you want RGB through SCART, you can buy DVD RegionX. Gamecube doesn't play DVD's at all, Xbox needs an add-on - which in my view negates the cost of DVD RegionX - and which doesn't allow multi-region playback.
> 2) Numerous faults and incompatability problems with
> TV's and DVD discs
I'm not aware of any compatibility problems with TV's at all. Some discs do not play, but then many dedicated low-end players also have the same problem, and on PS2 many of these issues are solved with the updated driver.
> , and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR
> Missions. For what was a £300 console
> it isn't good enough.
There are a handful of PSone games which won't work, and *most* of these are obscure Japanese titles. Metal Gear VR Missions is but one popular title that won't work. Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try it at all. Of course, you could always keep your PSone to play PSone games - just like N64 owners will have to do, whether they like it or not.
> 3) Weak launch titles and many "great graphics
> where is the lastability/gameplay" titles.
Still with the launch titles after more than a year? Wow. It really is time people looked beyond this. Even so, while they weren't outstanding, they certainly weren't all 'weak'.
Lastability is a moot point, as it's personal opinion. Some games last some people far longer than others. Also, blaming the PS2 or Sony is totally unfair, as the problem lies with the developers - the very same developers who will be making games for Gamecube and Xbox.
> MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until you
> finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the original.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't expect the gameplay to be any different, aside from new moves and new touches. The gameplay of the original is classic, innovative, and addictiive. Anyone who played the demo will know that the gameplay itself is largely unchanged, and so is unlikely to be disappointed with that aspect.
> There were supposed to be innovative features in this
> game but everyone knows them so what is the point
You can blame that on the magazines and websites for blowing the cover on those, and also the staggered release dates. I believe that the game justifies the hype, but the hype has definitley spoiled it for many people - not because the game fails, but because most of the secrets have been revealed.
> 4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have gone
> from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to
> MGS 2...where is the next BIG game after FFX ?
This is just Human Nature - everyone, on all platforms, is the same - they get one thing, then ask... "What's next?" I believe this is driven by both good and bad games. Get a good game; think: "Wow! Great! If this what we have now, what else is to come?" Get a bad game: "Pah! Crap! What's next? It must be better." "Big" games are personal taste and opinion. Personally I couldn't give a monkey's about FFX - I had FFVII, didn't like it, won't buy another. My "big" games are: Dropship, Wipeout Fusion, The Getaway, Stuntman, Run Like Hell, Onimusha 2, Medal of Honour: Frontline, Maximo, Toca Race Driver, Oni ... and more. Oh, and to prove my point... you say Thunderhawk was rubbish, but I love it.
> Developers which were just PS2 developers are
> hedging their bets
Some developers are producing exclusives simply because they've been paid to do so, not because of any real system preference. It's a common misonception, at least on these boards, that because developers are going multi-platform they are deserting the PS2. That is not the case.
Sony had many exclusives with PSone simply because there was no viable other platform from which developers could make money. Saturn/Dreamcast never really got off the ground, and the same can be said of the N64. Gamecube and Xbox look like they will sell well - so there is money to be made, hence developers are returning to multi-platform development. And that is the key word - 'returning'. The industry is not moving away from Sony, it is simply returning to a more balanced state.
> GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to the Gamecube
Unconfirmed as far as I know, but Rockstar recently said they don't see it as a platform for their games. Even so, "going to Gamecube" does not necessarily mean it *won't* be appearing on other platforms.
> the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube
Because it was paid for.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not sure.
> GT3 and GT4 to the PC.
I don't see how you can count this as a loss, when Sony have the rights and it is they who gave permission for the title to appear on PC. This, presumably, is because the next GT will be online-compatible, and being available to PC owners may have a significant knock-on effect and increase PS2 sales, online viability etc.
> But the Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty
> good
I agree, I'm considering both - but I won't be losing my PS2, that's for sure. I don't see it has to be "either/or" - if you can get all three, there's nothing stopping you. If you can't, you get the one which suits you best - and that depends on the games you want. While Xbox and Gamecube will have many good games, I still think that PS2 will have the best overall selection.
> HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2.
I would say that Halo is just like every other FPS, if prettier. And yes, I have read the non-biased Edge review, but I'm still unconvinced that it's significantly different to any other PC FPS. That said, it is coming to PC, and my PC packs more punch, so...
> These will look great, sound great and have
> massive advertising campaigns.
And Sony won't?
Remember, Sony have a HUGE head-start in sales alone, and from what I've read, no-one seriously expects either Microsoft or Nintendo to overhaul them in a hurry. Xbox and Gamecube sold well in the run up to Xmas, but PS2 sales - already good - were up 82% in December!
> Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly
> everyone buys their software and OS.
True - but in the OS market there's little in the way of viable alternatives.
> Nintendo have a reputation for cute games, but they sell.
But they didn't shift many N64's, just as Sega's "great games" didn't shift many Dreamcasts. This isn't a dig at them - just telling it like it is.
Of course, Sega have now gone multi-platform, and Nintendo aren't relying on "cute" games alone.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just
> shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are getting
> now.
But look at the 'top' Xbox games - Halo (shooter), Wreckless (GTA3), Project Gotham (Racing) and so on.
The titles heading for Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
The "great" titles are copies or conversions of titles already on PS2, which you say is unoriginal and needs great games.
> the Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are playing
> on the track....
But then, they're so far up the line that anything could happen. Derailment, points jam... wrong type of games on the line...
My faith in Sony isn't quite that bad yet, but it is getting pretty near to breaking point.
What seemed like THE console back in 2001 is now looking like the modern day Saturn. Yes, Sony were first past the chequered flag with a "next-gen" console but at what cost to its loyal fans ?
Problems have plagued what should have been a console that no one, not Mr Gates or Mario, should have been able to take on. They include;
1) RGB Scart playback of DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries. As many will know cheap VCD copies of new films are readily obtainable in about every town and city of the country. This is a poor excuse for disabling such a feature.
2) Numerous faults and incompatability problems with TV's and DVD discs, and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR Missions. For what was a £300 console it isn't good enough.
3) Weak launch titles and many "great graphics where is the lastability/gameplay" titles. "INSERT GAME HERE" is dissapointing is a regualr topic for PS2 releases on just this same forum. Devil May Cry looked cool, but the novelty of the graphics wears away to reveal a game with little lastability. MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until you finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the original. There were supposed to be innovative features in this game but everyone knows them so what is the point, we all know about using the pron magazines to distract guards, that'sa gimmick, not innovation.
4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have gone from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to MGS 2...where is the next BIG game after FFX ? Even when a game is set for launch release dates are messed around with the excuse that added feature are to be added. Many of these big titles disappoint new owners - Resident Evil Code Veronica is a common one. Its good, but not WOW ! Many supposedly excellent titles fall way short when they come to a review. Headhunter was supposed to be nearly as good as MGS2, Dropship has graphics which make it look like a launch game...because it should have been..., Thunderhawk was rubbish, Ridge Racer 5 a poor conversion and on and on. Developers which were just PS2 developers are hedging their bets; GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to the Gamecube, the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube, Buffy - X Box and Gamecube, GT3 and GT4 to the PC. I won't be surprised if I hear what sounds like a band playing as it slips underwater.
I'm not someone who chops and changes consoles; I owned a PSONE for 4 years, then this PC and I bought the PS2 last year. But the Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty good, HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2. Many PS2 owners are attacking (verbaly thankfully :) ) supporters of these consoles with ideas ranging from "its purple", "you have to buy a DVD upgrade" to "there are no decent games". There are also many more, less to the point ones which serve to show little.
The fact is that both of these consoles have games by the bucketload, for launch, and come christmas Nintendo and Microsoft will be rolling out their BIG titles. These will look great, sound great and have massive advertising campaigns. Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly everyone buys their software and OS. Nintendo have a reputation for cute games, but they sell.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are getting now. They need to sort the PS2's technical problems once and for all, and get rid of the green screen scart problem. They need to do much more... and probably won't because I suspect that it's dawning on them that it is too late, the Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are playing on the track....
Or am I wrong ? Prove it :)
What seemed like THE console back in 2001 is now looking like the modern day Saturn. Yes, Sony were first past the chequered flag with a "next-gen" console but at what cost to its loyal fans ?
Problems have plagued what should have been a console that no one, not Mr Gates or Mario, should have been able to take on. They include;
1) RGB Scart playback of DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries. As many will know cheap VCD copies of new films are readily obtainable in about every town and city of the country. This is a poor excuse for disabling such a feature.
2) Numerous faults and incompatability problems with TV's and DVD discs, and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR Missions. For what was a £300 console it isn't good enough.
3) Weak launch titles and many "great graphics where is the lastability/gameplay" titles. "INSERT GAME HERE" is dissapointing is a regualr topic for PS2 releases on just this same forum. Devil May Cry looked cool, but the novelty of the graphics wears away to reveal a game with little lastability. MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until you finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the original. There were supposed to be innovative features in this game but everyone knows them so what is the point, we all know about using the pron magazines to distract guards, that'sa gimmick, not innovation.
4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have gone from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to MGS 2...where is the next BIG game after FFX ? Even when a game is set for launch release dates are messed around with the excuse that added feature are to be added. Many of these big titles disappoint new owners - Resident Evil Code Veronica is a common one. Its good, but not WOW ! Many supposedly excellent titles fall way short when they come to a review. Headhunter was supposed to be nearly as good as MGS2, Dropship has graphics which make it look like a launch game...because it should have been..., Thunderhawk was rubbish, Ridge Racer 5 a poor conversion and on and on. Developers which were just PS2 developers are hedging their bets; GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to the Gamecube, the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube, Buffy - X Box and Gamecube, GT3 and GT4 to the PC. I won't be surprised if I hear what sounds like a band playing as it slips underwater.
I'm not someone who chops and changes consoles; I owned a PSONE for 4 years, then this PC and I bought the PS2 last year. But the Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty good, HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2. Many PS2 owners are attacking (verbaly thankfully :) ) supporters of these consoles with ideas ranging from "its purple", "you have to buy a DVD upgrade" to "there are no decent games". There are also many more, less to the point ones which serve to show little.
The fact is that both of these consoles have games by the bucketload, for launch, and come christmas Nintendo and Microsoft will be rolling out their BIG titles. These will look great, sound great and have massive advertising campaigns. Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly everyone buys their software and OS. Nintendo have a reputation for cute games, but they sell.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are getting now. They need to sort the PS2's technical problems once and for all, and get rid of the green screen scart problem. They need to do much more... and probably won't because I suspect that it's dawning on them that it is too late, the Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are playing on the track....
Or am I wrong ? Prove it :)
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