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My faith in Sony isn't quite that bad yet, but it is getting pretty near to breaking point.
What seemed like THE console back in 2001 is now looking like the modern day Saturn. Yes, Sony were first past the chequered flag with a "next-gen" console but at what cost to its loyal fans ?
Problems have plagued what should have been a console that no one, not Mr Gates or Mario, should have been able to take on. They include;
1) RGB Scart playback of DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries. As many will know cheap VCD copies of new films are readily obtainable in about every town and city of the country. This is a poor excuse for disabling such a feature.
2) Numerous faults and incompatability problems with TV's and DVD discs, and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR Missions. For what was a £300 console it isn't good enough.
3) Weak launch titles and many "great graphics where is the lastability/gameplay" titles. "INSERT GAME HERE" is dissapointing is a regualr topic for PS2 releases on just this same forum. Devil May Cry looked cool, but the novelty of the graphics wears away to reveal a game with little lastability. MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until you finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the original. There were supposed to be innovative features in this game but everyone knows them so what is the point, we all know about using the pron magazines to distract guards, that'sa gimmick, not innovation.
4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have gone from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to MGS 2...where is the next BIG game after FFX ? Even when a game is set for launch release dates are messed around with the excuse that added feature are to be added. Many of these big titles disappoint new owners - Resident Evil Code Veronica is a common one. Its good, but not WOW ! Many supposedly excellent titles fall way short when they come to a review. Headhunter was supposed to be nearly as good as MGS2, Dropship has graphics which make it look like a launch game...because it should have been..., Thunderhawk was rubbish, Ridge Racer 5 a poor conversion and on and on. Developers which were just PS2 developers are hedging their bets; GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to the Gamecube, the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube, Buffy - X Box and Gamecube, GT3 and GT4 to the PC. I won't be surprised if I hear what sounds like a band playing as it slips underwater.
I'm not someone who chops and changes consoles; I owned a PSONE for 4 years, then this PC and I bought the PS2 last year. But the Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty good, HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2. Many PS2 owners are attacking (verbaly thankfully :) ) supporters of these consoles with ideas ranging from "its purple", "you have to buy a DVD upgrade" to "there are no decent games". There are also many more, less to the point ones which serve to show little.
The fact is that both of these consoles have games by the bucketload, for launch, and come christmas Nintendo and Microsoft will be rolling out their BIG titles. These will look great, sound great and have massive advertising campaigns. Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly everyone buys their software and OS. Nintendo have a reputation for cute games, but they sell.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are getting now. They need to sort the PS2's technical problems once and for all, and get rid of the green screen scart problem. They need to do much more... and probably won't because I suspect that it's dawning on them that it is too late, the Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are playing on the track....
Or am I wrong ? Prove it :)
What seemed like THE console back in 2001 is now looking like the modern day Saturn. Yes, Sony were first past the chequered flag with a "next-gen" console but at what cost to its loyal fans ?
Problems have plagued what should have been a console that no one, not Mr Gates or Mario, should have been able to take on. They include;
1) RGB Scart playback of DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries. As many will know cheap VCD copies of new films are readily obtainable in about every town and city of the country. This is a poor excuse for disabling such a feature.
2) Numerous faults and incompatability problems with TV's and DVD discs, and certain PSONE titles such as Metal Gear Solid VR Missions. For what was a £300 console it isn't good enough.
3) Weak launch titles and many "great graphics where is the lastability/gameplay" titles. "INSERT GAME HERE" is dissapointing is a regualr topic for PS2 releases on just this same forum. Devil May Cry looked cool, but the novelty of the graphics wears away to reveal a game with little lastability. MGS 2, on import anyway is great to play, until you finish it, and the gameplay is nothing much above the original. There were supposed to be innovative features in this game but everyone knows them so what is the point, we all know about using the pron magazines to distract guards, that'sa gimmick, not innovation.
4) Reliance on "the next big thing". Owners have gone from looking forward to GT3, to Devil May Cry, to MGS 2...where is the next BIG game after FFX ? Even when a game is set for launch release dates are messed around with the excuse that added feature are to be added. Many of these big titles disappoint new owners - Resident Evil Code Veronica is a common one. Its good, but not WOW ! Many supposedly excellent titles fall way short when they come to a review. Headhunter was supposed to be nearly as good as MGS2, Dropship has graphics which make it look like a launch game...because it should have been..., Thunderhawk was rubbish, Ridge Racer 5 a poor conversion and on and on. Developers which were just PS2 developers are hedging their bets; GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to the Gamecube, the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube, Buffy - X Box and Gamecube, GT3 and GT4 to the PC. I won't be surprised if I hear what sounds like a band playing as it slips underwater.
I'm not someone who chops and changes consoles; I owned a PSONE for 4 years, then this PC and I bought the PS2 last year. But the Gamecube, and X Box (shudder) are looking pretty good, HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2. Many PS2 owners are attacking (verbaly thankfully :) ) supporters of these consoles with ideas ranging from "its purple", "you have to buy a DVD upgrade" to "there are no decent games". There are also many more, less to the point ones which serve to show little.
The fact is that both of these consoles have games by the bucketload, for launch, and come christmas Nintendo and Microsoft will be rolling out their BIG titles. These will look great, sound great and have massive advertising campaigns. Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly everyone buys their software and OS. Nintendo have a reputation for cute games, but they sell.
Sony need a lot of good, lastable games quickly, and not just shoot em ups and driving games by the bucketload, which is what we are getting now. They need to sort the PS2's technical problems once and for all, and get rid of the green screen scart problem. They need to do much more... and probably won't because I suspect that it's dawning on them that it is too late, the Microsoft/Nintendo train is steaming at full speed towards Sony, who are playing on the track....
Or am I wrong ? Prove it :)
Page:
woah...so thats why this page took so long to load up...bloody hell.
Stranger In Paradise wrote:
> Yes it is a problem. someone who wants to copy DVDs can
> just get their machine modified.
What I meant was, it is not a *technical* problem.
> Perfectly good picture quality ? Thats a joke!
No, no joke - the picture is perfectly okay and watchable.
> RGB is the best you can get - period.
I don't recall saying it wasn't - just that the picture quality through the supplied cable is perfectly good. Far better than VHS. I find it comparable to my high-end player - not *as good*, but not far off.
> Region X does not give RGB quality, it disables the RGB signal so
> you dont have to unplug your scart cable
True, but you can still watch through an RGB lead.
I don' tknow Sony's reasons for this method of 'anti-piracy', and I have said before that I don't agree with it. But the fact is, it can be worked around using various methods.
, much the same as the Blaze scart cable
> does. Yes, X Box needs an add on, which is essentially a remote that costs the
> same as Sony's - which many need to fix bugs in the software, supposedly. PS2
> could not do multi region straight away so saying the X box cannot either is
> rather a mute point dont you think ?
No, not at all. If I'd just said "You can buy Region X to overcome green screen", you'd probably have mentioned the extra cost - so I mentioned the fact that *requiring* an add-on for the Xbox to play DVD's offset the cost. The fact is that you can play DVD's on a PS2, in colour, out of the box, at reasonable quality, with no further purchases. On Xbox, you can't - though no doubt there will be bundles available.
> Well from what I've heard, unless you have controls on
> your tv to centre the picture there are very
> few people with a centred picture.
That depends on the TV - some people have it, myself included - about a quarter-inch to the left on a 28-inch TV - which is hardly a problem. RGB-shift is a *common* problem, dependent on both the equipment outputting the video signal and the equipment displaying it. That's why all computer monitors have the ability to centre the screen! Until I set it up correctly, my PC picture moved from too far right to too far left, depending on the resolution and display freqency. PSone had the same issue - no-one whinged about that.
> Some games do allow the picture to be moved
> admittedly, but very few.
What the developers do or don't include in their software is not the fault of Sony or the PS2!
> Hardly any low end players have the massive problems
> the PS2 DVD player has
I can only speak for myself and one other person - a friend. I have two Farscape DVD's which don't play on either of our PS2's. The disc plays fine on my dedicated player, and suffers the same problems on my friends parents low-end player.
> over the last few months numerous people have posted on
> this forum to say discs don't work yet other people reply to say they can get
> them to work on theirs.
Yes, there have been several posts about the matter. But you only ever hear about these things when someone has a problem. Of the millions of machines sold, actual problems are few and far between. People are always quick to complain, but the problem is that you rarely, if ever, hear from those who are happy - so it will always sound worse than it is.
> The driver is supposed to sort the problems but you have
> to buy the remote to get it, and the low end players which have problems are
> generally sorted out for FREE
Granted, Sony could have - maybe even *should* have - given the driver away for free. But then, I can think of another big company who have been charging for bug-fixes for years! :-)
> I think you'll find many of us sold our PSONE because
> the PS2 was going to be able to play the
> games perfectly well.
Myself included - and all of the PSone games I had did play perfectly well. As I said, Sony never claimed 100% compatibility, so they haven't misled anyone.
> The Gamecube games look like being so good that I doubt
> many N64 owners will be all that worried !
I would say the same for PS2, as I've not touched any of my PSone games since abuot a month after getting my PS2!
> Yes, after a year. Because theres still very few lastable
> titles out there or ones that offer long term play.
As I said, that's personal opinion. And if you don't find games lasting long enough, who's fault is that? Not Sony's (apart from their own games) or the fault of the machine. The machine can only run what the developers give it!
> Many developers have set aside teams to work on X
> Box/Gamecube or have seperate units
As they have for PS2, for the reasons you state. EA, for one, have a massive PS2 team. One title I can think of is the Madden series, where the PS2 version is the flagship product, with feature filtering down to other versions in the following year's title.
> Publishers and companies make money from their big games
> which helpls fund more adventurous ones like Run Like Hell.
And that title's first platform? PS2. An adventurous title (your words) appearing on a platform which developers are supposedly turning away from. All of the machines will have titles that sell them. GT3 sold millions of PS2, MGS2 will sell milions more.
> All the games you list do look good, but what will they play like.
The same applies to all the games on the other platforms, which seem to assuming will all be great. Will Halo really be *that* different to any other FPS game? Or, like MGS2, will it turn out not to be *quite* as good as the hype?
> Ive lost count of the number of games I've waited for
> for ages only to see them be released or to buy them,
> and find out they're a pile of rot.
Maybe you weren't reading enough reviews? I have yet to be disappointed by any game I've bought for my PS2 - and I'm not just saying that in order to defend my arguments. I buy 3 magazines every month to get a sample of reviews, and use input from all of them to choose my games. It pays off for me personally.
Game length and difficulty are also difficult to guage - what's easy for you may not be for someone else, and vice=-versa. For example - and no offence intended - maybe you dislike Thunderhawk because you're not very good at it? I agree that it is a hard game, but I find it enjoyable. To be honest, I had Thunderhawk 2 on PSone - and I took it back the following week because I thought it was absolutely dire. Which just shows how people's opinions can differ on the same points; you're not wrong, and nor am I - we just see the same things a different way.
> Dead Or Alive 3 was a PS2 game...the Resident Evil
> series...GTA3+4... GT3...Buffy....
DoA3, RE and Buffy have all been 'bought' for exclusives - they're not exclusive because the developers thought "oh, we won't make this for PS2". GTA3+4 are still multi-platform, as far as I know, and GT3 - as I said before - is a Sony game, and they are licensing the PC version.
> Developers go where the money is and
> Microsoft/Nintendo have the cash ready.
And Sony don't.
> It's no misconception, just basic math
> that one format does not pay if it isn't working out well.
PS2 not working out well? There isn't much I can say to that.
> Why have the extra expense of more staff, hardware,
> office space if you dont need it ? Many
> developers like EIDOS have lost heavily on Thunderhawk, Project EDEN.
Okay, so look at it another way. Assume these games didn't sell because they aren't actually very good. Whose fault is that? The developer. The same developer who will be making games on the other platforms. Would the same game from the same developer sell any differently on another platform, if it's not very good?
A game will sell well on any platform if it is good enough - if a game is sub-standard, the only fault lies with the developer.
> Balanced ? No way, the market can only stand 2 dominant
> consoles, as SEGA found out, along with 3DO, ATARI and NEO GEO.
No, the OLD console market could only sustain two platforms. The market has chnaged and increased exponentially since Sony appeared with the PlayStation. The market now will easily sustain 3 - maybe even more - consoles. PS2 has sold millions, Gamecube and Xbox are selling well. Each machine has its own audience, with some crossover where people will own more than one format to get the best from all machines.
> They are not returning as you put it, they are fleeing.
"Fleeing" suggests the abandonment of PS2, which is not the case.
> X BOX and GAMECUBE are sharing very few of their main
> titles with PS2 owners are they ? What has Sony secured for
> PS2 owners as an exclusive
Sony didn't have to pay for exclusives at launch because they had no serious competition. Microsoft and Nintendo are stepping in with big payments for exlusives because they need to - they know they need them to stand any hope of overhauling Sony's massive installed userbase.
> Sony should neverh ave let GT slip away to another
> platform as the high specs needed to play it mean its
> unlikely anyone will go out and buy a PS2
> as well!
Sony haven't let GT slip away - they are the ones licensing it, which means more money to them from PC sales. I don't understand what you mean by the rest of that statement - the specs needed on a PC would surely mean MORE PS2 sales, as it would be cheaper unless you already have a sufficient PC?
> if it going to be online compatible then this only proves the point
> that Sony does not think there are enough PS2's out there to rely on.
There are already more than enough PS2's to rely on - far more than the other platforms, and growing all the time!
> The PS2 needs to establish its own gaming community
> online, not buy in one from elsewhere.
Which Sony are working on - news of this has been around for some time. However, being compatible with an existing network can only be a benefit.
> Thats because last December you could hardly
> get them !
The increase was not based on consecutive December's, but on sales in the run up to Christmas over the previous sales.
> Gamespot show that like for like sales compared to PS2 are significantly higher.
Okay, excuse my ignorance: What are 'like for like sales'? You're either selling units or you're not. Remember that Sony had problems supplying enough machines at launch, so that will reflect negatively in the figures if 'like for like' means the launch times of both machines.
> but Microsoft...Gates won't give in without a fight and
> cann afford to throw more money at it than Sony can
Maybe, maybe not. Throwing money around does not guarantee a successful product. Right or wrong, Microsoft does generally have an image problem.
> Owners of either new console will have no
> previos compatible games. To them it wont just be
> antoher racer or beat em up.
Same applied to all the nre PS2 owners, though.
I'm not saying that you are wrong, or that I am right - but as with the Thunderhawk games, I'm showing that much of the discussion is open to interpretation.
I agree, Sony cannot afford to rest on their laurels, but with all the money they've invested, I would certainly hope that they have some big plans.
I can't see them going easily or quietly!
> Yes it is a problem. someone who wants to copy DVDs can
> just get their machine modified.
What I meant was, it is not a *technical* problem.
> Perfectly good picture quality ? Thats a joke!
No, no joke - the picture is perfectly okay and watchable.
> RGB is the best you can get - period.
I don't recall saying it wasn't - just that the picture quality through the supplied cable is perfectly good. Far better than VHS. I find it comparable to my high-end player - not *as good*, but not far off.
> Region X does not give RGB quality, it disables the RGB signal so
> you dont have to unplug your scart cable
True, but you can still watch through an RGB lead.
I don' tknow Sony's reasons for this method of 'anti-piracy', and I have said before that I don't agree with it. But the fact is, it can be worked around using various methods.
, much the same as the Blaze scart cable
> does. Yes, X Box needs an add on, which is essentially a remote that costs the
> same as Sony's - which many need to fix bugs in the software, supposedly. PS2
> could not do multi region straight away so saying the X box cannot either is
> rather a mute point dont you think ?
No, not at all. If I'd just said "You can buy Region X to overcome green screen", you'd probably have mentioned the extra cost - so I mentioned the fact that *requiring* an add-on for the Xbox to play DVD's offset the cost. The fact is that you can play DVD's on a PS2, in colour, out of the box, at reasonable quality, with no further purchases. On Xbox, you can't - though no doubt there will be bundles available.
> Well from what I've heard, unless you have controls on
> your tv to centre the picture there are very
> few people with a centred picture.
That depends on the TV - some people have it, myself included - about a quarter-inch to the left on a 28-inch TV - which is hardly a problem. RGB-shift is a *common* problem, dependent on both the equipment outputting the video signal and the equipment displaying it. That's why all computer monitors have the ability to centre the screen! Until I set it up correctly, my PC picture moved from too far right to too far left, depending on the resolution and display freqency. PSone had the same issue - no-one whinged about that.
> Some games do allow the picture to be moved
> admittedly, but very few.
What the developers do or don't include in their software is not the fault of Sony or the PS2!
> Hardly any low end players have the massive problems
> the PS2 DVD player has
I can only speak for myself and one other person - a friend. I have two Farscape DVD's which don't play on either of our PS2's. The disc plays fine on my dedicated player, and suffers the same problems on my friends parents low-end player.
> over the last few months numerous people have posted on
> this forum to say discs don't work yet other people reply to say they can get
> them to work on theirs.
Yes, there have been several posts about the matter. But you only ever hear about these things when someone has a problem. Of the millions of machines sold, actual problems are few and far between. People are always quick to complain, but the problem is that you rarely, if ever, hear from those who are happy - so it will always sound worse than it is.
> The driver is supposed to sort the problems but you have
> to buy the remote to get it, and the low end players which have problems are
> generally sorted out for FREE
Granted, Sony could have - maybe even *should* have - given the driver away for free. But then, I can think of another big company who have been charging for bug-fixes for years! :-)
> I think you'll find many of us sold our PSONE because
> the PS2 was going to be able to play the
> games perfectly well.
Myself included - and all of the PSone games I had did play perfectly well. As I said, Sony never claimed 100% compatibility, so they haven't misled anyone.
> The Gamecube games look like being so good that I doubt
> many N64 owners will be all that worried !
I would say the same for PS2, as I've not touched any of my PSone games since abuot a month after getting my PS2!
> Yes, after a year. Because theres still very few lastable
> titles out there or ones that offer long term play.
As I said, that's personal opinion. And if you don't find games lasting long enough, who's fault is that? Not Sony's (apart from their own games) or the fault of the machine. The machine can only run what the developers give it!
> Many developers have set aside teams to work on X
> Box/Gamecube or have seperate units
As they have for PS2, for the reasons you state. EA, for one, have a massive PS2 team. One title I can think of is the Madden series, where the PS2 version is the flagship product, with feature filtering down to other versions in the following year's title.
> Publishers and companies make money from their big games
> which helpls fund more adventurous ones like Run Like Hell.
And that title's first platform? PS2. An adventurous title (your words) appearing on a platform which developers are supposedly turning away from. All of the machines will have titles that sell them. GT3 sold millions of PS2, MGS2 will sell milions more.
> All the games you list do look good, but what will they play like.
The same applies to all the games on the other platforms, which seem to assuming will all be great. Will Halo really be *that* different to any other FPS game? Or, like MGS2, will it turn out not to be *quite* as good as the hype?
> Ive lost count of the number of games I've waited for
> for ages only to see them be released or to buy them,
> and find out they're a pile of rot.
Maybe you weren't reading enough reviews? I have yet to be disappointed by any game I've bought for my PS2 - and I'm not just saying that in order to defend my arguments. I buy 3 magazines every month to get a sample of reviews, and use input from all of them to choose my games. It pays off for me personally.
Game length and difficulty are also difficult to guage - what's easy for you may not be for someone else, and vice=-versa. For example - and no offence intended - maybe you dislike Thunderhawk because you're not very good at it? I agree that it is a hard game, but I find it enjoyable. To be honest, I had Thunderhawk 2 on PSone - and I took it back the following week because I thought it was absolutely dire. Which just shows how people's opinions can differ on the same points; you're not wrong, and nor am I - we just see the same things a different way.
> Dead Or Alive 3 was a PS2 game...the Resident Evil
> series...GTA3+4... GT3...Buffy....
DoA3, RE and Buffy have all been 'bought' for exclusives - they're not exclusive because the developers thought "oh, we won't make this for PS2". GTA3+4 are still multi-platform, as far as I know, and GT3 - as I said before - is a Sony game, and they are licensing the PC version.
> Developers go where the money is and
> Microsoft/Nintendo have the cash ready.
And Sony don't.
> It's no misconception, just basic math
> that one format does not pay if it isn't working out well.
PS2 not working out well? There isn't much I can say to that.
> Why have the extra expense of more staff, hardware,
> office space if you dont need it ? Many
> developers like EIDOS have lost heavily on Thunderhawk, Project EDEN.
Okay, so look at it another way. Assume these games didn't sell because they aren't actually very good. Whose fault is that? The developer. The same developer who will be making games on the other platforms. Would the same game from the same developer sell any differently on another platform, if it's not very good?
A game will sell well on any platform if it is good enough - if a game is sub-standard, the only fault lies with the developer.
> Balanced ? No way, the market can only stand 2 dominant
> consoles, as SEGA found out, along with 3DO, ATARI and NEO GEO.
No, the OLD console market could only sustain two platforms. The market has chnaged and increased exponentially since Sony appeared with the PlayStation. The market now will easily sustain 3 - maybe even more - consoles. PS2 has sold millions, Gamecube and Xbox are selling well. Each machine has its own audience, with some crossover where people will own more than one format to get the best from all machines.
> They are not returning as you put it, they are fleeing.
"Fleeing" suggests the abandonment of PS2, which is not the case.
> X BOX and GAMECUBE are sharing very few of their main
> titles with PS2 owners are they ? What has Sony secured for
> PS2 owners as an exclusive
Sony didn't have to pay for exclusives at launch because they had no serious competition. Microsoft and Nintendo are stepping in with big payments for exlusives because they need to - they know they need them to stand any hope of overhauling Sony's massive installed userbase.
> Sony should neverh ave let GT slip away to another
> platform as the high specs needed to play it mean its
> unlikely anyone will go out and buy a PS2
> as well!
Sony haven't let GT slip away - they are the ones licensing it, which means more money to them from PC sales. I don't understand what you mean by the rest of that statement - the specs needed on a PC would surely mean MORE PS2 sales, as it would be cheaper unless you already have a sufficient PC?
> if it going to be online compatible then this only proves the point
> that Sony does not think there are enough PS2's out there to rely on.
There are already more than enough PS2's to rely on - far more than the other platforms, and growing all the time!
> The PS2 needs to establish its own gaming community
> online, not buy in one from elsewhere.
Which Sony are working on - news of this has been around for some time. However, being compatible with an existing network can only be a benefit.
> Thats because last December you could hardly
> get them !
The increase was not based on consecutive December's, but on sales in the run up to Christmas over the previous sales.
> Gamespot show that like for like sales compared to PS2 are significantly higher.
Okay, excuse my ignorance: What are 'like for like sales'? You're either selling units or you're not. Remember that Sony had problems supplying enough machines at launch, so that will reflect negatively in the figures if 'like for like' means the launch times of both machines.
> but Microsoft...Gates won't give in without a fight and
> cann afford to throw more money at it than Sony can
Maybe, maybe not. Throwing money around does not guarantee a successful product. Right or wrong, Microsoft does generally have an image problem.
> Owners of either new console will have no
> previos compatible games. To them it wont just be
> antoher racer or beat em up.
Same applied to all the nre PS2 owners, though.
I'm not saying that you are wrong, or that I am right - but as with the Thunderhawk games, I'm showing that much of the discussion is open to interpretation.
I agree, Sony cannot afford to rest on their laurels, but with all the money they've invested, I would certainly hope that they have some big plans.
I can't see them going easily or quietly!
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
Not a 'problem', but a deliberate move. You can play DVD's
> in colour with perfectly good picture quality through the lead supplied with the
> PS2. If you want RGB through SCART, you can buy DVD RegionX. Gamecube doesn't
> play DVD's at all, Xbox needs an add-on - which in my view negates the cost of
> DVD RegionX - and which doesn't allow multi-region playback.
Yes it is a problem. someone who wants to copy DVDs can just get their machine modified. Disabling RGB only penalises normal decent buyers of the machine. Perfectly good picture quality ? Thats a joke ! I've seen £100 players do better - RGB is the best you can get - period. Region X does not give RGB quality, it disables the RGB signal so you dont have to unplug your scart cable, much the same as the Blaze scart cable does. Yes, X Box needs an add on, which is essentially a remote that costs the same as Sony's - which many need to fix bugs in the software, supposedly. PS2 could not do multi region straight away so saying the X box cannot either is rather a mute point dont you think ?
>I'm not aware of any compatibility problems with TV's at all. Some
> discs do not play, but then many dedicated low-end players also have the same
> problem, and on PS2 many of these issues are solved with the updated
> driver.
Well from what I've heard, unless you have controls on your tv to centre the picture there are very few people with a centred picture. Some games do allow the picture to be moved admittedly, but very few. Hardly any low end players have the massive problems the PS2 DVD player has, over the last few months numerous people have posted on this forum to say discs don't work yet other people reply to say they can get them to work on theirs. The driver is supposed to sort the problems but you have to buy the remote to get it, and the low end players which have problems are generally sorted out for FREE, e.g. some of the Longman DVD players wouldnt play Gladiator, so the cmpany offered free upgrades to anyone who actually bothered to contact them.
>There
> are a handful of PSone games which won't work, and *most* of these are obscure
> Japanese titles. Metal Gear VR Missions is but one popular title that won't
> work. Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over
> 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or
> since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try
> it at all. Of course, you could always keep your PSone to play PSone games -
> just like N64 owners will have to do, whether they like it or not.
I think you'll find many of us sold our PSONE because the PS2 was going to be able to play the games perfectly well. Yes, it was a good try, but so was Betamax :) The Gamecube games look like being so good that I doubt many N64 owners will be all that worried !
Still with the launch titles after more
> than a year? Wow. It really is time people looked beyond this. Even so, while
> they weren't outstanding, they certainly weren't all 'weak'.
Lastability is a
> moot point, as it's personal opinion. Some games last some people far longer
> than others. Also, blaming the PS2 or Sony is totally unfair, as the problem
> lies with the developers - the very same developers who will be making games for
> Gamecube and Xbox.
Yes, after a year. Because theres still very few lastable titles out there or ones that offer long term play. FF7 on PSONE was a game me and a friend played every day until we finished it. Same for Half Life, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, SWAT 3, Sudden Strike and many other PC titles. Lastability is to a degree a personal opinion but if a games too easy thats a programming problem. Time Crisis 2 is brilliant graphically and the GCON is a great peripheral but even on hardest setting its too easy. Agent Under Fire is the same, no challenge or AI thats any good. Many developers have set aside teams to work on X Box/Gamecube or have seperate units so there are not the same people, even multi platform titles have seperate development teams because the console's respective architectute varies so much. Sony have overseen many titles under the SCEE label, Ridge Racer 5, Dropship, Dead Or Alive 2 e.t.c They do look convincingly arcadeish but also only the offer the quick fix arcade games give. Where is the depth ?
>You can blame that on the magazines and websites for blowing the cover
> on those, and also the staggered release dates. I believe that the game
> justifies the hype, but the hype has definitley spoiled it for many people - not
> because the game fails, but because most of the secrets have been
> revealed.
I'd blame the developer. They can keep secrets if they want to, but the ever failing release date has meant that they had to keep our interest for so long. This game was supposed to be a launch title ! The game can now never justify the hype because we've been promise the ultimate stealth-shooter-adventure game , and it will never be that to all people.
>This is just Human Nature - everyone, on all
> platforms, is the same - they get one thing, then ask... "What's
> next?" I believe this is driven by both good and bad games. Get a good
> game; think: "Wow! Great! If this what we have now, what else is to
> come?" Get a bad game: "Pah! Crap! What's next? It must be
> better." "Big" games are personal taste and opinion. Personally
> I couldn't give a monkey's about FFX - I had FFVII, didn't like it, won't buy
> another. My "big" games are: Dropship, Wipeout Fusion, The Getaway,
> Stuntman, Run Like Hell, Onimusha 2, Medal of Honour: Frontline, Maximo, Toca
> Race Driver, Oni ... and more. Oh, and to prove my point... you say Thunderhawk
> was rubbish, but I love it.
Yes it is personal taste, but any console needs BIG games that will generate interest and make people want to buy that console. Halo is going ot be a massive seeler for X Box, and will sell that console to many people. You liked Thunderhawk, fair enough, but the sales figures show that many didnt, with many retailers hardly bothering to stock it. Publishers and companies make money from their big games which helpls fund more adventurous ones like Run Like Hell. All the games you list do look good, but what will they play like. Ive lost count of the number of games I've waited for for ages only to see them be released or to buy them, and find out they're a pile of rot. Onimusha was great...for about three nights play. Extermination provided another weekends entertainment, Thunderhawk was okay but annoying controls, unsuitable missions and difficukty level - or lack of - made it a disappointing game compared to Thunderhawk 2 on the PSONE, that was far better yet is about 4 years older....
>Some developers are producing exclusives simply
> because they've been paid to do so, not because of any real system preference.
> It's a common misonception, at least on these boards, that because developers
> are going multi-platform they are deserting the PS2. That is not the
> case.
It is. Dead Or Alive 3 was a PS2 game...the Resident Evil series...GTA3+4... GT3...Buffy.... Developers go where the money is and Microsoft/Nintendo have the cash ready. It's no misconception, just basic math that one format does not pay if it isn't working out well. Why have the extra expense of more staff, hardware, office space if you dont need it ? Many developers like EIDOS have lost heavily on Thunderhawk, Project EDEN. Zone of Enders only sold becuase of the MGS2 demo - did anyone not complete this game within 1-2 tries ?
>Sony had many exclusives with PSone simply because there was no viable
> other platform from which developers could make money. Saturn/Dreamcast never
> really got off the ground, and the same can be said of the N64. Gamecube and
> Xbox look like they will sell well - so there is money to be made, hence
> developers are returning to multi-platform development. And that is the key
> word - 'returning'. The industry is not moving away from Sony, it is simply
> returning to a more balanced state.
Balanced ? No way, the market can only stand 2 dominant consoles, as SEGA found out, along with 3DO, ATARI and NEO GEO. They are not returning as you put it, they are fleeing. X BOX and GAMECUBE are sharing very few of their main titles with PS2 owners are they ? What has Sony secured for PS2 owners as an exclusive,apart from a pile of Sega developed stuff, because after FFx this franchise is going multi platform. Consoles need exclusives to sell them, no one is in the console game purely to make people happy, its about money and profit. GT3 sold consoles- thats undisputable, MGS2 will also, but after that ? Sure games like Vampire Night and Rez are exclusive but they will not drastically attract new buyers at a time when X Box and Gamecube will be.
> GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to
> the Gamecube
Unconfirmed as far as I know, but Rockstar recently said they
> don't see it as a platform for their games. Even so, "going to
> Gamecube" does not necessarily mean it *won't* be appearing on other
> platforms.
GTA3 is antoher title that sells th PS2. Why should anyone buy a PS2 to play GTA4 if they can play it on XBox ? Sony needs more extremely good games to sell consoles.
> the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube
Because it was
> paid for.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not
> sure.
> GT3 and GT4 to the PC.
I don't see how you can count this as
> a loss, when Sony have the rights and it is they who gave permission for the
> title to appear on PC. This, presumably, is because the next GT will be
> online-compatible, and being available to PC owners may have a significant
> knock-on effect and increase PS2 sales, online viability etc.
All these illustrate my point. Sony is not putting the cold hard cash into this. Sony should neverh ave let GT slip away to another platform as the high specs needed to play it mean its unlikely anyone will go out and buy a PS2 as well ! if it going to be online compatible then this only proves the point that Sony does not think there are enough PS2's out there to rely on. If the PS2 gaming community ends up mixed in with hardcore PC online players then many new online players just won't bother at all. The PS2 needs to establish its own gaming community online, not buy in one from elsewhere.
>I agree, I'm
> considering both - but I won't be losing my PS2, that's for sure. I don't see
> it has to be "either/or" - if you can get all three, there's nothing
> stopping you. If you can't, you get the one which suits you best - and that
> depends on the games you want. While Xbox and Gamecube will have many good
> games, I still think that PS2 will have the best overall selection.
X box looks like it already has the greater variety considering only the launch line up alone.
>
> HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2.
I would say that Halo is just
> like every other FPS, if prettier. And yes, I have read the non-biased Edge
> review, but I'm still unconvinced that it's significantly different to any other
> PC FPS. That said, it is coming to PC, and my PC packs more punch,
> so...
PC Games rely on Windows OS and drivers e.t.c to make them work... or rather not make them work. Most people want plug and play gaming, not install, configure, driver update, patch 1, play patch 2 gaming.
> These will look great, sound great and have
> massive
> advertising campaigns.
>And Sony won't?
Yeah, the Third Space campaign was briliant... only mostly PS2 owners actually knew it was for PS2
>Remember, Sony have a HUGE
> head-start in sales alone, and from what I've read, no-one seriously expects
> either Microsoft or Nintendo to overhaul them in a hurry. Xbox and Gamecube
> sold well in the run up to Xmas, but PS2 sales - already good - were up 82% in
> December!
Thats because last December you could hardly get them ! Sony has sold over 1 million here, but preliminary figures on CNN and Gamespot show that like for like sales compared to PS2 are significantly higher. Most people dont want all three, they want the one with the best games and features and graphics. I'd expect the sales trend to mirror the USA over here.
> Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly
>
> everyone buys their software and OS.
>True - but in the OS market there's
> little in the way of viable alternatives.
Ever thought this is why Sony reached a million ? :) Competition is always harder for any company. Sony beath off Sega and Nintendo last time, but Microsoft...Gates won't give in without a fight and cann afford to throw more money at it than Sony can.
>But look at the 'top' Xbox games - Halo (shooter),
> Wreckless (GTA3), Project Gotham (Racing) and so on.
Yes, Buffy (adventure/rpg), Ghost Recon (tactical/ strategy shooter), Dead Or Alive 3 (beat em up) X Box has the variety, Ghost Recon is ace on PC and looks even better on X Box. PS2 has nothing like it !
>The titles heading for
> Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
The
> "great" titles are copies or conversions of titles already on PS2,
> which you say is unoriginal and needs great games.
Owners of either new console will have no previos compatible games. To them it wont just be antoher racer or beat em up. After one year I'm a little sick of racers and drivers and poor FPS games. These type of games are great for grabbing initial interest but they need to be followed up PDQ by more variety. Sony's launch games, whilst weak, did get everyones interest - RR5 and DOA2 in particular- but they needed building upon.
>But then, they're so far up the line that
> anything could happen. Derailment, points jam... wrong type of games on the
> line...
February (probably) for Gamecube and March for X box, thats not too far away when you consider the state ofthis country's rail system :) Wrong games ? American and Japanese sales have proved that isnt a problem. What if Sony are the proverbial Railtrack, ignoring the problem until their train crashes and the network collapses ?
HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?
Not a 'problem', but a deliberate move. You can play DVD's
> in colour with perfectly good picture quality through the lead supplied with the
> PS2. If you want RGB through SCART, you can buy DVD RegionX. Gamecube doesn't
> play DVD's at all, Xbox needs an add-on - which in my view negates the cost of
> DVD RegionX - and which doesn't allow multi-region playback.
Yes it is a problem. someone who wants to copy DVDs can just get their machine modified. Disabling RGB only penalises normal decent buyers of the machine. Perfectly good picture quality ? Thats a joke ! I've seen £100 players do better - RGB is the best you can get - period. Region X does not give RGB quality, it disables the RGB signal so you dont have to unplug your scart cable, much the same as the Blaze scart cable does. Yes, X Box needs an add on, which is essentially a remote that costs the same as Sony's - which many need to fix bugs in the software, supposedly. PS2 could not do multi region straight away so saying the X box cannot either is rather a mute point dont you think ?
>I'm not aware of any compatibility problems with TV's at all. Some
> discs do not play, but then many dedicated low-end players also have the same
> problem, and on PS2 many of these issues are solved with the updated
> driver.
Well from what I've heard, unless you have controls on your tv to centre the picture there are very few people with a centred picture. Some games do allow the picture to be moved admittedly, but very few. Hardly any low end players have the massive problems the PS2 DVD player has, over the last few months numerous people have posted on this forum to say discs don't work yet other people reply to say they can get them to work on theirs. The driver is supposed to sort the problems but you have to buy the remote to get it, and the low end players which have problems are generally sorted out for FREE, e.g. some of the Longman DVD players wouldnt play Gladiator, so the cmpany offered free upgrades to anyone who actually bothered to contact them.
>There
> are a handful of PSone games which won't work, and *most* of these are obscure
> Japanese titles. Metal Gear VR Missions is but one popular title that won't
> work. Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over
> 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or
> since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try
> it at all. Of course, you could always keep your PSone to play PSone games -
> just like N64 owners will have to do, whether they like it or not.
I think you'll find many of us sold our PSONE because the PS2 was going to be able to play the games perfectly well. Yes, it was a good try, but so was Betamax :) The Gamecube games look like being so good that I doubt many N64 owners will be all that worried !
Still with the launch titles after more
> than a year? Wow. It really is time people looked beyond this. Even so, while
> they weren't outstanding, they certainly weren't all 'weak'.
Lastability is a
> moot point, as it's personal opinion. Some games last some people far longer
> than others. Also, blaming the PS2 or Sony is totally unfair, as the problem
> lies with the developers - the very same developers who will be making games for
> Gamecube and Xbox.
Yes, after a year. Because theres still very few lastable titles out there or ones that offer long term play. FF7 on PSONE was a game me and a friend played every day until we finished it. Same for Half Life, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, SWAT 3, Sudden Strike and many other PC titles. Lastability is to a degree a personal opinion but if a games too easy thats a programming problem. Time Crisis 2 is brilliant graphically and the GCON is a great peripheral but even on hardest setting its too easy. Agent Under Fire is the same, no challenge or AI thats any good. Many developers have set aside teams to work on X Box/Gamecube or have seperate units so there are not the same people, even multi platform titles have seperate development teams because the console's respective architectute varies so much. Sony have overseen many titles under the SCEE label, Ridge Racer 5, Dropship, Dead Or Alive 2 e.t.c They do look convincingly arcadeish but also only the offer the quick fix arcade games give. Where is the depth ?
>You can blame that on the magazines and websites for blowing the cover
> on those, and also the staggered release dates. I believe that the game
> justifies the hype, but the hype has definitley spoiled it for many people - not
> because the game fails, but because most of the secrets have been
> revealed.
I'd blame the developer. They can keep secrets if they want to, but the ever failing release date has meant that they had to keep our interest for so long. This game was supposed to be a launch title ! The game can now never justify the hype because we've been promise the ultimate stealth-shooter-adventure game , and it will never be that to all people.
>This is just Human Nature - everyone, on all
> platforms, is the same - they get one thing, then ask... "What's
> next?" I believe this is driven by both good and bad games. Get a good
> game; think: "Wow! Great! If this what we have now, what else is to
> come?" Get a bad game: "Pah! Crap! What's next? It must be
> better." "Big" games are personal taste and opinion. Personally
> I couldn't give a monkey's about FFX - I had FFVII, didn't like it, won't buy
> another. My "big" games are: Dropship, Wipeout Fusion, The Getaway,
> Stuntman, Run Like Hell, Onimusha 2, Medal of Honour: Frontline, Maximo, Toca
> Race Driver, Oni ... and more. Oh, and to prove my point... you say Thunderhawk
> was rubbish, but I love it.
Yes it is personal taste, but any console needs BIG games that will generate interest and make people want to buy that console. Halo is going ot be a massive seeler for X Box, and will sell that console to many people. You liked Thunderhawk, fair enough, but the sales figures show that many didnt, with many retailers hardly bothering to stock it. Publishers and companies make money from their big games which helpls fund more adventurous ones like Run Like Hell. All the games you list do look good, but what will they play like. Ive lost count of the number of games I've waited for for ages only to see them be released or to buy them, and find out they're a pile of rot. Onimusha was great...for about three nights play. Extermination provided another weekends entertainment, Thunderhawk was okay but annoying controls, unsuitable missions and difficukty level - or lack of - made it a disappointing game compared to Thunderhawk 2 on the PSONE, that was far better yet is about 4 years older....
>Some developers are producing exclusives simply
> because they've been paid to do so, not because of any real system preference.
> It's a common misonception, at least on these boards, that because developers
> are going multi-platform they are deserting the PS2. That is not the
> case.
It is. Dead Or Alive 3 was a PS2 game...the Resident Evil series...GTA3+4... GT3...Buffy.... Developers go where the money is and Microsoft/Nintendo have the cash ready. It's no misconception, just basic math that one format does not pay if it isn't working out well. Why have the extra expense of more staff, hardware, office space if you dont need it ? Many developers like EIDOS have lost heavily on Thunderhawk, Project EDEN. Zone of Enders only sold becuase of the MGS2 demo - did anyone not complete this game within 1-2 tries ?
>Sony had many exclusives with PSone simply because there was no viable
> other platform from which developers could make money. Saturn/Dreamcast never
> really got off the ground, and the same can be said of the N64. Gamecube and
> Xbox look like they will sell well - so there is money to be made, hence
> developers are returning to multi-platform development. And that is the key
> word - 'returning'. The industry is not moving away from Sony, it is simply
> returning to a more balanced state.
Balanced ? No way, the market can only stand 2 dominant consoles, as SEGA found out, along with 3DO, ATARI and NEO GEO. They are not returning as you put it, they are fleeing. X BOX and GAMECUBE are sharing very few of their main titles with PS2 owners are they ? What has Sony secured for PS2 owners as an exclusive,apart from a pile of Sega developed stuff, because after FFx this franchise is going multi platform. Consoles need exclusives to sell them, no one is in the console game purely to make people happy, its about money and profit. GT3 sold consoles- thats undisputable, MGS2 will also, but after that ? Sure games like Vampire Night and Rez are exclusive but they will not drastically attract new buyers at a time when X Box and Gamecube will be.
> GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to
> the Gamecube
Unconfirmed as far as I know, but Rockstar recently said they
> don't see it as a platform for their games. Even so, "going to
> Gamecube" does not necessarily mean it *won't* be appearing on other
> platforms.
GTA3 is antoher title that sells th PS2. Why should anyone buy a PS2 to play GTA4 if they can play it on XBox ? Sony needs more extremely good games to sell consoles.
> the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube
Because it was
> paid for.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not
> sure.
> GT3 and GT4 to the PC.
I don't see how you can count this as
> a loss, when Sony have the rights and it is they who gave permission for the
> title to appear on PC. This, presumably, is because the next GT will be
> online-compatible, and being available to PC owners may have a significant
> knock-on effect and increase PS2 sales, online viability etc.
All these illustrate my point. Sony is not putting the cold hard cash into this. Sony should neverh ave let GT slip away to another platform as the high specs needed to play it mean its unlikely anyone will go out and buy a PS2 as well ! if it going to be online compatible then this only proves the point that Sony does not think there are enough PS2's out there to rely on. If the PS2 gaming community ends up mixed in with hardcore PC online players then many new online players just won't bother at all. The PS2 needs to establish its own gaming community online, not buy in one from elsewhere.
>I agree, I'm
> considering both - but I won't be losing my PS2, that's for sure. I don't see
> it has to be "either/or" - if you can get all three, there's nothing
> stopping you. If you can't, you get the one which suits you best - and that
> depends on the games you want. While Xbox and Gamecube will have many good
> games, I still think that PS2 will have the best overall selection.
X box looks like it already has the greater variety considering only the launch line up alone.
>
> HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2.
I would say that Halo is just
> like every other FPS, if prettier. And yes, I have read the non-biased Edge
> review, but I'm still unconvinced that it's significantly different to any other
> PC FPS. That said, it is coming to PC, and my PC packs more punch,
> so...
PC Games rely on Windows OS and drivers e.t.c to make them work... or rather not make them work. Most people want plug and play gaming, not install, configure, driver update, patch 1, play patch 2 gaming.
> These will look great, sound great and have
> massive
> advertising campaigns.
>And Sony won't?
Yeah, the Third Space campaign was briliant... only mostly PS2 owners actually knew it was for PS2
>Remember, Sony have a HUGE
> head-start in sales alone, and from what I've read, no-one seriously expects
> either Microsoft or Nintendo to overhaul them in a hurry. Xbox and Gamecube
> sold well in the run up to Xmas, but PS2 sales - already good - were up 82% in
> December!
Thats because last December you could hardly get them ! Sony has sold over 1 million here, but preliminary figures on CNN and Gamespot show that like for like sales compared to PS2 are significantly higher. Most people dont want all three, they want the one with the best games and features and graphics. I'd expect the sales trend to mirror the USA over here.
> Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly
>
> everyone buys their software and OS.
>True - but in the OS market there's
> little in the way of viable alternatives.
Ever thought this is why Sony reached a million ? :) Competition is always harder for any company. Sony beath off Sega and Nintendo last time, but Microsoft...Gates won't give in without a fight and cann afford to throw more money at it than Sony can.
>But look at the 'top' Xbox games - Halo (shooter),
> Wreckless (GTA3), Project Gotham (Racing) and so on.
Yes, Buffy (adventure/rpg), Ghost Recon (tactical/ strategy shooter), Dead Or Alive 3 (beat em up) X Box has the variety, Ghost Recon is ace on PC and looks even better on X Box. PS2 has nothing like it !
>The titles heading for
> Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
The
> "great" titles are copies or conversions of titles already on PS2,
> which you say is unoriginal and needs great games.
Owners of either new console will have no previos compatible games. To them it wont just be antoher racer or beat em up. After one year I'm a little sick of racers and drivers and poor FPS games. These type of games are great for grabbing initial interest but they need to be followed up PDQ by more variety. Sony's launch games, whilst weak, did get everyones interest - RR5 and DOA2 in particular- but they needed building upon.
>But then, they're so far up the line that
> anything could happen. Derailment, points jam... wrong type of games on the
> line...
February (probably) for Gamecube and March for X box, thats not too far away when you consider the state ofthis country's rail system :) Wrong games ? American and Japanese sales have proved that isnt a problem. What if Sony are the proverbial Railtrack, ignoring the problem until their train crashes and the network collapses ?
HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?
MrMatrix wrote:
> ok theyve had their problems but out of the net gen consoles, GC doesnt stand a
> chance against eihther X-Box or PS2, and the x-box is bound to crash every 5
> mins as some people have said in America. I feel priverlidged to be a PS2 owner
> as i was when i owned my PSOne
MM
Isnt it about time we all dropped this " X Box is microsoft so its going to crash" thing ? PC's crash because of the numerous different compnenets and mixes of software that exist. X Box does DVD and Games. Problems in America have revolved around technical faults, a large proportion of which - like Sony - are down to people not bothering to read the instructions. The number of PS2 owners that have returned their console to where I work saying "the DVD doesnt work it green" is unbelievable. Yet what does it say in the manual... Nintendo messed up with N64, but GBA is going well and Gamecube has doen well in the USA and Japan.
> ok theyve had their problems but out of the net gen consoles, GC doesnt stand a
> chance against eihther X-Box or PS2, and the x-box is bound to crash every 5
> mins as some people have said in America. I feel priverlidged to be a PS2 owner
> as i was when i owned my PSOne
MM
Isnt it about time we all dropped this " X Box is microsoft so its going to crash" thing ? PC's crash because of the numerous different compnenets and mixes of software that exist. X Box does DVD and Games. Problems in America have revolved around technical faults, a large proportion of which - like Sony - are down to people not bothering to read the instructions. The number of PS2 owners that have returned their console to where I work saying "the DVD doesnt work it green" is unbelievable. Yet what does it say in the manual... Nintendo messed up with N64, but GBA is going well and Gamecube has doen well in the USA and Japan.
ok theyve had their problems but out of the net gen consoles, GC doesnt stand a chance against eihther X-Box or PS2, and the x-box is bound to crash every 5 mins as some people have said in America. I feel priverlidged to be a PS2 owner as i was when i owned my PSOne
MM
MM
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
> > 1) RGB Scart playback of
Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over
> 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or
> since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try
> it at all.
Gameboy - Gameboy Advance
Atari 2600 - Coleco
Atari 2600 - Atari 5600 or 7200 ( I think)
;-)
>The titles heading for
> Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
Though Rogue Leader is based on the more popular original Star Wars trilogy.
And in fairness it's not really these titles that people buy Nintendo consoles for, but Nintendo's own games, and those of their second parties, like Rare. I myself am more looking forward to Eternal Darkess, StarFox Adventures and Pikmin that the above titles.
> > 1) RGB Scart playback of
Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over
> 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or
> since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try
> it at all.
Gameboy - Gameboy Advance
Atari 2600 - Coleco
Atari 2600 - Atari 5600 or 7200 ( I think)
;-)
>The titles heading for
> Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
Though Rogue Leader is based on the more popular original Star Wars trilogy.
And in fairness it's not really these titles that people buy Nintendo consoles for, but Nintendo's own games, and those of their second parties, like Rare. I myself am more looking forward to Eternal Darkess, StarFox Adventures and Pikmin that the above titles.
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
Not a 'problem', but a deliberate move. You can play DVD's
> in colour with perfectly good picture quality through the lead supplied with the
> PS2. If you want RGB through SCART, you can buy DVD RegionX. Gamecube doesn't
> play DVD's at all, Xbox needs an add-on - which in my view negates the cost of
> DVD RegionX - and which doesn't allow multi-region playback.
Yes it is a problem. someone who wants to copy DVDs can just get their machine modified. Disabling RGB only penalises normal decent buyers of the machine. Perfectly good picture quality ? Thats a joke ! I've seen £100 players do better - RGB is the best you can get - period. Region X does not give RGB quality, it disables the RGB signal so you dont have to unplug your scart cable, much the same as the Blaze scart cable does. Yes, X Box needs an add on, which is essentially a remote that costs the same as Sony's - which many need to fix bugs in the software, supposedly. PS2 could not do multi region straight away so saying the X box cannot either is rather a mute point dont you think ?
>I'm not aware of any compatibility problems with TV's at all. Some
> discs do not play, but then many dedicated low-end players also have the same
> problem, and on PS2 many of these issues are solved with the updated
> driver.
Well from what I've heard, unless you have controls on your tv to centre the picture there are very few people with a centred picture. Some games do allow the picture to be moved admittedly, but very few. Hardly any low end players have the massive problems the PS2 DVD player has, over the last few months numerous people have posted on this forum to say discs don't work yet other people reply to say they can get them to work on theirs. The driver is supposed to sort the problems but you have to buy the remote to get it, and the low end players which have problems are generally sorted out for FREE, e.g. some of the Longman DVD players wouldnt play Gladiator, so the cmpany offered free upgrades to anyone who actually bothered to contact them.
>There
> are a handful of PSone games which won't work, and *most* of these are obscure
> Japanese titles. Metal Gear VR Missions is but one popular title that won't
> work. Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over
> 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or
> since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try
> it at all. Of course, you could always keep your PSone to play PSone games -
> just like N64 owners will have to do, whether they like it or not.
I think you'll find many of us sold our PSONE because the PS2 was going to be able to play the games perfectly well. Yes, it was a good try, but so was Betamax :) The Gamecube games look like being so good that I doubt many N64 owners will be all that worried !
Still with the launch titles after more
> than a year? Wow. It really is time people looked beyond this. Even so, while
> they weren't outstanding, they certainly weren't all 'weak'.
Lastability is a
> moot point, as it's personal opinion. Some games last some people far longer
> than others. Also, blaming the PS2 or Sony is totally unfair, as the problem
> lies with the developers - the very same developers who will be making games for
> Gamecube and Xbox.
Yes, after a year. Because theres still very few lastable titles out there or ones that offer long term play. FF7 on PSONE was a game me and a friend played every day until we finished it. Same for Half Life, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, SWAT 3, Sudden Strike and many other PC titles. Lastability is to a degree a personal opinion but if a games too easy thats a programming problem. Time Crisis 2 is brilliant graphically and the GCON is a great peripheral but even on hardest setting its too easy. Agent Under Fire is the same, no challenge or AI thats any good. Many developers have set aside teams to work on X Box/Gamecube or have seperate units so there are not the same people, even multi platform titles have seperate development teams because the console's respective architectute varies so much. Sony have overseen many titles under the SCEE label, Ridge Racer 5, Dropship, Dead Or Alive 2 e.t.c They do look convincingly arcadeish but also only the offer the quick fix arcade games give. Where is the depth ?
>You can blame that on the magazines and websites for blowing the cover
> on those, and also the staggered release dates. I believe that the game
> justifies the hype, but the hype has definitley spoiled it for many people - not
> because the game fails, but because most of the secrets have been
> revealed.
I'd blame the developer. They can keep secrets if they want to, but the ever failing release date has meant that they had to keep our interest for so long. This game was supposed to be a launch title ! The game can now never justify the hype because we've been promise the ultimate stealth-shooter-adventure game , and it will never be that to all people.
>This is just Human Nature - everyone, on all
> platforms, is the same - they get one thing, then ask... "What's
> next?" I believe this is driven by both good and bad games. Get a good
> game; think: "Wow! Great! If this what we have now, what else is to
> come?" Get a bad game: "Pah! Crap! What's next? It must be
> better." "Big" games are personal taste and opinion. Personally
> I couldn't give a monkey's about FFX - I had FFVII, didn't like it, won't buy
> another. My "big" games are: Dropship, Wipeout Fusion, The Getaway,
> Stuntman, Run Like Hell, Onimusha 2, Medal of Honour: Frontline, Maximo, Toca
> Race Driver, Oni ... and more. Oh, and to prove my point... you say Thunderhawk
> was rubbish, but I love it.
Yes it is personal taste, but any console needs BIG games that will generate interest and make people want to buy that console. Halo is going ot be a massive seeler for X Box, and will sell that console to many people. You liked Thunderhawk, fair enough, but the sales figures show that many didnt, with many retailers hardly bothering to stock it. Publishers and companies make money from their big games which helpls fund more adventurous ones like Run Like Hell. All the games you list do look good, but what will they play like. Ive lost count of the number of games I've waited for for ages only to see them be released or to buy them, and find out they're a pile of rot. Onimusha was great...for about three nights play. Extermination provided another weekends entertainment, Thunderhawk was okay but annoying controls, unsuitable missions and difficukty level - or lack of - made it a disappointing game compared to Thunderhawk 2 on the PSONE, that was far better yet is about 4 years older....
>Some developers are producing exclusives simply
> because they've been paid to do so, not because of any real system preference.
> It's a common misonception, at least on these boards, that because developers
> are going multi-platform they are deserting the PS2. That is not the
> case.
It is. Dead Or Alive 3 was a PS2 game...the Resident Evil series...GTA3+4... GT3...Buffy.... Developers go where the money is and Microsoft/Nintendo have the cash ready. It's no misconception, just basic math that one format does not pay if it isn't working out well. Why have the extra expense of more staff, hardware, office space if you dont need it ? Many developers like EIDOS have lost heavily on Thunderhawk, Project EDEN. Zone of Enders only sold becuase of the MGS2 demo - did anyone not complete this game within 1-2 tries ?
>Sony had many exclusives with PSone simply because there was no viable
> other platform from which developers could make money. Saturn/Dreamcast never
> really got off the ground, and the same can be said of the N64. Gamecube and
> Xbox look like they will sell well - so there is money to be made, hence
> developers are returning to multi-platform development. And that is the key
> word - 'returning'. The industry is not moving away from Sony, it is simply
> returning to a more balanced state.
Balanced ? No way, the market can only stand 2 dominant consoles, as SEGA found out, along with 3DO, ATARI and NEO GEO. They are not returning as you put it, they are fleeing. X BOX and GAMECUBE are sharing very few of their main titles with PS2 owners are they ? What has Sony secured for PS2 owners as an exclusive,apart from a pile of Sega developed stuff, because after FFx this franchise is going multi platform. Consoles need exclusives to sell them, no one is in the console game purely to make people happy, its about money and profit. GT3 sold consoles- thats undisputable, MGS2 will also, but after that ? Sure games like Vampire Night and Rez are exclusive but they will not drastically attract new buyers at a time when X Box and Gamecube will be.
> GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to
> the Gamecube
Unconfirmed as far as I know, but Rockstar recently said they
> don't see it as a platform for their games. Even so, "going to
> Gamecube" does not necessarily mean it *won't* be appearing on other
> platforms.
GTA3 is antoher title that sells th PS2. Why should anyone buy a PS2 to play GTA4 if they can play it on XBox ? Sony needs more extremely good games to sell consoles.
> the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube
Because it was
> paid for.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not
> sure.
> GT3 and GT4 to the PC.
I don't see how you can count this as
> a loss, when Sony have the rights and it is they who gave permission for the
> title to appear on PC. This, presumably, is because the next GT will be
> online-compatible, and being available to PC owners may have a significant
> knock-on effect and increase PS2 sales, online viability etc.
All these illustrate my point. Sony is not putting the cold hard cash into this. Sony should neverh ave let GT slip away to another platform as the high specs needed to play it mean its unlikely anyone will go out and buy a PS2 as well ! if it going to be online compatible then this only proves the point that Sony does not think there are enough PS2's out there to rely on. If the PS2 gaming community ends up mixed in with hardcore PC online players then many new online players just won't bother at all. The PS2 needs to establish its own gaming community online, not buy in one from elsewhere.
>I agree, I'm
> considering both - but I won't be losing my PS2, that's for sure. I don't see
> it has to be "either/or" - if you can get all three, there's nothing
> stopping you. If you can't, you get the one which suits you best - and that
> depends on the games you want. While Xbox and Gamecube will have many good
> games, I still think that PS2 will have the best overall selection.
X box looks like it already has the greater variety considering only the launch line up alone.
>
> HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2.
I would say that Halo is just
> like every other FPS, if prettier. And yes, I have read the non-biased Edge
> review, but I'm still unconvinced that it's significantly different to any other
> PC FPS. That said, it is coming to PC, and my PC packs more punch,
> so...
PC Games rely on Windows OS and drivers e.t.c to make them work... or rather not make them work. Most people want plug and play gaming, not install, configure, driver update, patch 1, play patch 2 gaming.
> These will look great, sound great and have
> massive
> advertising campaigns.
>And Sony won't?
Yeah, the Third Space campaign was briliant... only mostly PS2 owners actually knew it was for PS2
>Remember, Sony have a HUGE
> head-start in sales alone, and from what I've read, no-one seriously expects
> either Microsoft or Nintendo to overhaul them in a hurry. Xbox and Gamecube
> sold well in the run up to Xmas, but PS2 sales - already good - were up 82% in
> December!
Thats because last December you could hardly get them ! Sony has sold over 1 million here, but preliminary figures on CNN and Gamespot show that like for like sales compared to PS2 are significantly higher. Most people dont want all three, they want the one with the best games and features and graphics. I'd expect the sales trend to mirror the USA over here.
> Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly
>
> everyone buys their software and OS.
>True - but in the OS market there's
> little in the way of viable alternatives.
Ever thought this is why Sony reached a million ? :) Competition is always harder for any company. Sony beath off Sega and Nintendo last time, but Microsoft...Gates won't give in without a fight and cann afford to throw more money at it than Sony can.
>But look at the 'top' Xbox games - Halo (shooter),
> Wreckless (GTA3), Project Gotham (Racing) and so on.
Yes, Buffy (adventure/rpg), Ghost Recon (tactical/ strategy shooter), Dead Or Alive 3 (beat em up) X Box has the variety, Ghost Recon is ace on PC and looks even better on X Box. PS2 has nothing like it !
>The titles heading for
> Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
The
> "great" titles are copies or conversions of titles already on PS2,
> which you say is unoriginal and needs great games.
Owners of either new console will have no previos compatible games. To them it wont just be antoher racer or beat em up. After one year I'm a little sick of racers and drivers and poor FPS games. These type of games are great for grabbing initial interest but they need to be followed up PDQ by more variety. Sony's launch games, whilst weak, did get everyones interest - RR5 and DOA2 in particular- but they needed building upon.
>But then, they're so far up the line that
> anything could happen. Derailment, points jam... wrong type of games on the
> line...
February (probably) for Gamecube and March for X box, thats not too far away when you consider the state ofthis country's rail system :) Wrong games ? American and Japanese sales have proved that isnt a problem. What if Sony are the proverbial Railtrack, ignoring the problem until their train crashes and the network collapses ?
Not a 'problem', but a deliberate move. You can play DVD's
> in colour with perfectly good picture quality through the lead supplied with the
> PS2. If you want RGB through SCART, you can buy DVD RegionX. Gamecube doesn't
> play DVD's at all, Xbox needs an add-on - which in my view negates the cost of
> DVD RegionX - and which doesn't allow multi-region playback.
Yes it is a problem. someone who wants to copy DVDs can just get their machine modified. Disabling RGB only penalises normal decent buyers of the machine. Perfectly good picture quality ? Thats a joke ! I've seen £100 players do better - RGB is the best you can get - period. Region X does not give RGB quality, it disables the RGB signal so you dont have to unplug your scart cable, much the same as the Blaze scart cable does. Yes, X Box needs an add on, which is essentially a remote that costs the same as Sony's - which many need to fix bugs in the software, supposedly. PS2 could not do multi region straight away so saying the X box cannot either is rather a mute point dont you think ?
>I'm not aware of any compatibility problems with TV's at all. Some
> discs do not play, but then many dedicated low-end players also have the same
> problem, and on PS2 many of these issues are solved with the updated
> driver.
Well from what I've heard, unless you have controls on your tv to centre the picture there are very few people with a centred picture. Some games do allow the picture to be moved admittedly, but very few. Hardly any low end players have the massive problems the PS2 DVD player has, over the last few months numerous people have posted on this forum to say discs don't work yet other people reply to say they can get them to work on theirs. The driver is supposed to sort the problems but you have to buy the remote to get it, and the low end players which have problems are generally sorted out for FREE, e.g. some of the Longman DVD players wouldnt play Gladiator, so the cmpany offered free upgrades to anyone who actually bothered to contact them.
>There
> are a handful of PSone games which won't work, and *most* of these are obscure
> Japanese titles. Metal Gear VR Missions is but one popular title that won't
> work. Sony have never claimed 100% compatibility, but to achieve well over
> 90% is fantastic. It's something which has never been attempted before (or
> since, for that matter) and Sony are to be commended for even bothering to try
> it at all. Of course, you could always keep your PSone to play PSone games -
> just like N64 owners will have to do, whether they like it or not.
I think you'll find many of us sold our PSONE because the PS2 was going to be able to play the games perfectly well. Yes, it was a good try, but so was Betamax :) The Gamecube games look like being so good that I doubt many N64 owners will be all that worried !
Still with the launch titles after more
> than a year? Wow. It really is time people looked beyond this. Even so, while
> they weren't outstanding, they certainly weren't all 'weak'.
Lastability is a
> moot point, as it's personal opinion. Some games last some people far longer
> than others. Also, blaming the PS2 or Sony is totally unfair, as the problem
> lies with the developers - the very same developers who will be making games for
> Gamecube and Xbox.
Yes, after a year. Because theres still very few lastable titles out there or ones that offer long term play. FF7 on PSONE was a game me and a friend played every day until we finished it. Same for Half Life, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, SWAT 3, Sudden Strike and many other PC titles. Lastability is to a degree a personal opinion but if a games too easy thats a programming problem. Time Crisis 2 is brilliant graphically and the GCON is a great peripheral but even on hardest setting its too easy. Agent Under Fire is the same, no challenge or AI thats any good. Many developers have set aside teams to work on X Box/Gamecube or have seperate units so there are not the same people, even multi platform titles have seperate development teams because the console's respective architectute varies so much. Sony have overseen many titles under the SCEE label, Ridge Racer 5, Dropship, Dead Or Alive 2 e.t.c They do look convincingly arcadeish but also only the offer the quick fix arcade games give. Where is the depth ?
>You can blame that on the magazines and websites for blowing the cover
> on those, and also the staggered release dates. I believe that the game
> justifies the hype, but the hype has definitley spoiled it for many people - not
> because the game fails, but because most of the secrets have been
> revealed.
I'd blame the developer. They can keep secrets if they want to, but the ever failing release date has meant that they had to keep our interest for so long. This game was supposed to be a launch title ! The game can now never justify the hype because we've been promise the ultimate stealth-shooter-adventure game , and it will never be that to all people.
>This is just Human Nature - everyone, on all
> platforms, is the same - they get one thing, then ask... "What's
> next?" I believe this is driven by both good and bad games. Get a good
> game; think: "Wow! Great! If this what we have now, what else is to
> come?" Get a bad game: "Pah! Crap! What's next? It must be
> better." "Big" games are personal taste and opinion. Personally
> I couldn't give a monkey's about FFX - I had FFVII, didn't like it, won't buy
> another. My "big" games are: Dropship, Wipeout Fusion, The Getaway,
> Stuntman, Run Like Hell, Onimusha 2, Medal of Honour: Frontline, Maximo, Toca
> Race Driver, Oni ... and more. Oh, and to prove my point... you say Thunderhawk
> was rubbish, but I love it.
Yes it is personal taste, but any console needs BIG games that will generate interest and make people want to buy that console. Halo is going ot be a massive seeler for X Box, and will sell that console to many people. You liked Thunderhawk, fair enough, but the sales figures show that many didnt, with many retailers hardly bothering to stock it. Publishers and companies make money from their big games which helpls fund more adventurous ones like Run Like Hell. All the games you list do look good, but what will they play like. Ive lost count of the number of games I've waited for for ages only to see them be released or to buy them, and find out they're a pile of rot. Onimusha was great...for about three nights play. Extermination provided another weekends entertainment, Thunderhawk was okay but annoying controls, unsuitable missions and difficukty level - or lack of - made it a disappointing game compared to Thunderhawk 2 on the PSONE, that was far better yet is about 4 years older....
>Some developers are producing exclusives simply
> because they've been paid to do so, not because of any real system preference.
> It's a common misonception, at least on these boards, that because developers
> are going multi-platform they are deserting the PS2. That is not the
> case.
It is. Dead Or Alive 3 was a PS2 game...the Resident Evil series...GTA3+4... GT3...Buffy.... Developers go where the money is and Microsoft/Nintendo have the cash ready. It's no misconception, just basic math that one format does not pay if it isn't working out well. Why have the extra expense of more staff, hardware, office space if you dont need it ? Many developers like EIDOS have lost heavily on Thunderhawk, Project EDEN. Zone of Enders only sold becuase of the MGS2 demo - did anyone not complete this game within 1-2 tries ?
>Sony had many exclusives with PSone simply because there was no viable
> other platform from which developers could make money. Saturn/Dreamcast never
> really got off the ground, and the same can be said of the N64. Gamecube and
> Xbox look like they will sell well - so there is money to be made, hence
> developers are returning to multi-platform development. And that is the key
> word - 'returning'. The industry is not moving away from Sony, it is simply
> returning to a more balanced state.
Balanced ? No way, the market can only stand 2 dominant consoles, as SEGA found out, along with 3DO, ATARI and NEO GEO. They are not returning as you put it, they are fleeing. X BOX and GAMECUBE are sharing very few of their main titles with PS2 owners are they ? What has Sony secured for PS2 owners as an exclusive,apart from a pile of Sega developed stuff, because after FFx this franchise is going multi platform. Consoles need exclusives to sell them, no one is in the console game purely to make people happy, its about money and profit. GT3 sold consoles- thats undisputable, MGS2 will also, but after that ? Sure games like Vampire Night and Rez are exclusive but they will not drastically attract new buyers at a time when X Box and Gamecube will be.
> GTA 3, and porbably 4 is going to
> the Gamecube
Unconfirmed as far as I know, but Rockstar recently said they
> don't see it as a platform for their games. Even so, "going to
> Gamecube" does not necessarily mean it *won't* be appearing on other
> platforms.
GTA3 is antoher title that sells th PS2. Why should anyone buy a PS2 to play GTA4 if they can play it on XBox ? Sony needs more extremely good games to sell consoles.
> the next Resident Evil is another Gamecube
Because it was
> paid for.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not
> sure.
> GT3 and GT4 to the PC.
I don't see how you can count this as
> a loss, when Sony have the rights and it is they who gave permission for the
> title to appear on PC. This, presumably, is because the next GT will be
> online-compatible, and being available to PC owners may have a significant
> knock-on effect and increase PS2 sales, online viability etc.
All these illustrate my point. Sony is not putting the cold hard cash into this. Sony should neverh ave let GT slip away to another platform as the high specs needed to play it mean its unlikely anyone will go out and buy a PS2 as well ! if it going to be online compatible then this only proves the point that Sony does not think there are enough PS2's out there to rely on. If the PS2 gaming community ends up mixed in with hardcore PC online players then many new online players just won't bother at all. The PS2 needs to establish its own gaming community online, not buy in one from elsewhere.
>I agree, I'm
> considering both - but I won't be losing my PS2, that's for sure. I don't see
> it has to be "either/or" - if you can get all three, there's nothing
> stopping you. If you can't, you get the one which suits you best - and that
> depends on the games you want. While Xbox and Gamecube will have many good
> games, I still think that PS2 will have the best overall selection.
X box looks like it already has the greater variety considering only the launch line up alone.
>
> HALO is amazing and like no shooter on PS2.
I would say that Halo is just
> like every other FPS, if prettier. And yes, I have read the non-biased Edge
> review, but I'm still unconvinced that it's significantly different to any other
> PC FPS. That said, it is coming to PC, and my PC packs more punch,
> so...
PC Games rely on Windows OS and drivers e.t.c to make them work... or rather not make them work. Most people want plug and play gaming, not install, configure, driver update, patch 1, play patch 2 gaming.
> These will look great, sound great and have
> massive
> advertising campaigns.
>And Sony won't?
Yeah, the Third Space campaign was briliant... only mostly PS2 owners actually knew it was for PS2
>Remember, Sony have a HUGE
> head-start in sales alone, and from what I've read, no-one seriously expects
> either Microsoft or Nintendo to overhaul them in a hurry. Xbox and Gamecube
> sold well in the run up to Xmas, but PS2 sales - already good - were up 82% in
> December!
Thats because last December you could hardly get them ! Sony has sold over 1 million here, but preliminary figures on CNN and Gamespot show that like for like sales compared to PS2 are significantly higher. Most people dont want all three, they want the one with the best games and features and graphics. I'd expect the sales trend to mirror the USA over here.
> Sure, people love to hate Microsoft, but nearly
>
> everyone buys their software and OS.
>True - but in the OS market there's
> little in the way of viable alternatives.
Ever thought this is why Sony reached a million ? :) Competition is always harder for any company. Sony beath off Sega and Nintendo last time, but Microsoft...Gates won't give in without a fight and cann afford to throw more money at it than Sony can.
>But look at the 'top' Xbox games - Halo (shooter),
> Wreckless (GTA3), Project Gotham (Racing) and so on.
Yes, Buffy (adventure/rpg), Ghost Recon (tactical/ strategy shooter), Dead Or Alive 3 (beat em up) X Box has the variety, Ghost Recon is ace on PC and looks even better on X Box. PS2 has nothing like it !
>The titles heading for
> Gamecube - Resident Evil, GTA3 (possibly), Rogue Leader (Starfighter).
The
> "great" titles are copies or conversions of titles already on PS2,
> which you say is unoriginal and needs great games.
Owners of either new console will have no previos compatible games. To them it wont just be antoher racer or beat em up. After one year I'm a little sick of racers and drivers and poor FPS games. These type of games are great for grabbing initial interest but they need to be followed up PDQ by more variety. Sony's launch games, whilst weak, did get everyones interest - RR5 and DOA2 in particular- but they needed building upon.
>But then, they're so far up the line that
> anything could happen. Derailment, points jam... wrong type of games on the
> line...
February (probably) for Gamecube and March for X box, thats not too far away when you consider the state ofthis country's rail system :) Wrong games ? American and Japanese sales have proved that isnt a problem. What if Sony are the proverbial Railtrack, ignoring the problem until their train crashes and the network collapses ?
1) RGB Scart playback of
DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries. As many will know cheap VCD copies of new films are readily obtainable in about every town and city of the country. This is a poor excuse for disabling such a feature.Or am I wrong ? Prove it :)
well you are saying the dvd movie feature is not there for rgb well what do the competition have to offer the gamecube does not play dvd's and the nor does the xbox. the only way a xbox plays dvd's is via upgrade which costs more on top of the actual console, so its not an integrated feature of the xbox.
DVD's immobilised because of ridiculous copying worries. As many will know cheap VCD copies of new films are readily obtainable in about every town and city of the country. This is a poor excuse for disabling such a feature.Or am I wrong ? Prove it :)
well you are saying the dvd movie feature is not there for rgb well what do the competition have to offer the gamecube does not play dvd's and the nor does the xbox. the only way a xbox plays dvd's is via upgrade which costs more on top of the actual console, so its not an integrated feature of the xbox.
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not
> sure.
Yep X-Box and PC.
> Buffy - X Box and Gamecube
I thought Xbox and PC, but not
> sure.
Yep X-Box and PC.
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