The "Sony Games" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Metal Gear Solid 2... the most highly anticipated game ever... the most hyped... the game that will sell millions of PS2s all by itself. Yes, you`ve heard it all before - every word if it probably. Judging from the reaction in America, its just as good as everybody hoped. It has sold in the millions already, and is receiving glowing reviews everywhere, which hasn`t really come as a surprise at all. However, there is still something missing - a two player mode.
To me, there are two main reasons why Metal Gear Solid needs a two player mode. Its the one thing lacking in this otherwise brilliant game, and I`m sure it would benefit from the extra mode to an amazing degree. It may be one of the best games ever, and it will certainly be the best looking game around upon release here in the UK, but it still lacks that mutliplayer fun that can be found in games like TimeSplitters.
Firstly, there is the obvious multiplayer choice, the co-op mode (co-operative). As in games such as Mickey and Donald`s World of Illusion, and Perfect Dark, this mode allows two human players to team up, and work together to defeat the enemy. Of the two mentioned above, World of Illusion was easily the best, as it really made two people work together, rather than simply doubling the number of bad guys. In World Of Illusion, there were mine carts, see-saws, and large jumps that could bot be tackled alone. Instead, the two heros would work together, pushing pulling and lifting things to help eachother. Metal Gear in my opinion is a game that could provide a perfect scenario for complex co-operative play.
The kind of co-op situations that could occur could range from simple things such as one player distracting a guard, whilst the other silently approaches and takes the guard down, right up to more complex situations where the two characters split off for a longer period of time, and put into motion a more difficult two pronged attack. There were simple examples in the first game that saw Solid Snake team up with another character to turn two switches at once, but the other character was controlled by AI, rather than a human.
There is an obvious problem with this in that a new character would be required to join and work with Snake, which would require major plot changes, and large alterations to Snake`s method of infiltration - its less easy to hide two people. Another problem is the graphical detail, as it is so complex in Metal Gear Solid 2 that two screens worth of data would certainly lose a large amount of data, thus sacrificing some of the hard fought for detail. There are flaws, but the idea of a co-op mode is still very exciting - and certainly a better idea than a head to head shoot `em up as in the gameboy version!
The other, slightly less obvious, mulitplayer mode is hide and seek, or possibly hide and shoot. This mode would involve two human controlled characters, sneaking around the ship (featured in MGS2), which could be populated with guards out to get you. One character would be the "seeker" and would have the task of tracking you down, and perhaps tagging you with a dart, or paint mark. Once hit, the title of "seeker" would change hands, and the roles would be reversed. The positions could also be changed if the hider is discovered by a guard, meaning that he would have to be extra careful to remain out of sight of everybody, not just the "seeker". To complete this mode, a timer would have to be set, keeping track of who was hiding the longest - which would indicate the winner.
Both of the modes mentioned above have huge potential in a game like Metal Gear Solid, and I would love to see them put into later games - though the flaws in graphical power may be too great to overcome at this stage. The future of gaming seems more orientated a online play for a lot of games these days (see Tony Hawks 3), but online play would become a little too complex in a game like this. There would be thousands of people all fighting to save the day from the same evil villain. With that many Snakes around, I doubt any bad guys would be stupid enough to bother anymore!
For now though, we`ll have to make do with AI controlled enemies, so its lucky the soldiers in Metal Gear are so intelligent! Even the demo released early this year showed an outstanding level of thinking amongst the guards, but how long will it be until AI is superior to our own?
To me, there are two main reasons why Metal Gear Solid needs a two player mode. Its the one thing lacking in this otherwise brilliant game, and I`m sure it would benefit from the extra mode to an amazing degree. It may be one of the best games ever, and it will certainly be the best looking game around upon release here in the UK, but it still lacks that mutliplayer fun that can be found in games like TimeSplitters.
Firstly, there is the obvious multiplayer choice, the co-op mode (co-operative). As in games such as Mickey and Donald`s World of Illusion, and Perfect Dark, this mode allows two human players to team up, and work together to defeat the enemy. Of the two mentioned above, World of Illusion was easily the best, as it really made two people work together, rather than simply doubling the number of bad guys. In World Of Illusion, there were mine carts, see-saws, and large jumps that could bot be tackled alone. Instead, the two heros would work together, pushing pulling and lifting things to help eachother. Metal Gear in my opinion is a game that could provide a perfect scenario for complex co-operative play.
The kind of co-op situations that could occur could range from simple things such as one player distracting a guard, whilst the other silently approaches and takes the guard down, right up to more complex situations where the two characters split off for a longer period of time, and put into motion a more difficult two pronged attack. There were simple examples in the first game that saw Solid Snake team up with another character to turn two switches at once, but the other character was controlled by AI, rather than a human.
There is an obvious problem with this in that a new character would be required to join and work with Snake, which would require major plot changes, and large alterations to Snake`s method of infiltration - its less easy to hide two people. Another problem is the graphical detail, as it is so complex in Metal Gear Solid 2 that two screens worth of data would certainly lose a large amount of data, thus sacrificing some of the hard fought for detail. There are flaws, but the idea of a co-op mode is still very exciting - and certainly a better idea than a head to head shoot `em up as in the gameboy version!
The other, slightly less obvious, mulitplayer mode is hide and seek, or possibly hide and shoot. This mode would involve two human controlled characters, sneaking around the ship (featured in MGS2), which could be populated with guards out to get you. One character would be the "seeker" and would have the task of tracking you down, and perhaps tagging you with a dart, or paint mark. Once hit, the title of "seeker" would change hands, and the roles would be reversed. The positions could also be changed if the hider is discovered by a guard, meaning that he would have to be extra careful to remain out of sight of everybody, not just the "seeker". To complete this mode, a timer would have to be set, keeping track of who was hiding the longest - which would indicate the winner.
Both of the modes mentioned above have huge potential in a game like Metal Gear Solid, and I would love to see them put into later games - though the flaws in graphical power may be too great to overcome at this stage. The future of gaming seems more orientated a online play for a lot of games these days (see Tony Hawks 3), but online play would become a little too complex in a game like this. There would be thousands of people all fighting to save the day from the same evil villain. With that many Snakes around, I doubt any bad guys would be stupid enough to bother anymore!
For now though, we`ll have to make do with AI controlled enemies, so its lucky the soldiers in Metal Gear are so intelligent! Even the demo released early this year showed an outstanding level of thinking amongst the guards, but how long will it be until AI is superior to our own?
Page:
How about Meryl?
I am the Tarrant wrote:
>Adding characters, bad idea.
It is indeed, which is why it was in the list of possible flaws. However, there might be a way round it if perhaps mid way through the game sniper wolf or some other bad guy decides to join you or die or something like that... so co-op or kill her and continue on your own!
>Adding characters, bad idea.
It is indeed, which is why it was in the list of possible flaws. However, there might be a way round it if perhaps mid way through the game sniper wolf or some other bad guy decides to join you or die or something like that... so co-op or kill her and continue on your own!
Ok, I've probably missed out some of the things these nice folks have said, but I think I have a solution to queries in your first post...
"...character would be required to join and work with Snake, which would require major plot changes..."
Now that the game's engine and maps have been produced, A different senario selection would be quite easy and quick to make.
"...graphical detail, as it is so complex in Metal Gear Solid 2 that two screens worth of data would certainly lose a large amount of data, thus sacrificing some of the hard fought for detail..."
Not if you split the draw distance in half... or simply have one screen with 2 characters. Star Wars Jedi Power Battles (PSX, DC) used a balance engine for the camera, so each character got an equil amount of screenspace.
"... but online play would become a little too complex in a game like this."
Not if they planned it right. There is a lot of scope for a game that includes stealth, snipering and darts. :~)
"...character would be required to join and work with Snake, which would require major plot changes..."
Now that the game's engine and maps have been produced, A different senario selection would be quite easy and quick to make.
"...graphical detail, as it is so complex in Metal Gear Solid 2 that two screens worth of data would certainly lose a large amount of data, thus sacrificing some of the hard fought for detail..."
Not if you split the draw distance in half... or simply have one screen with 2 characters. Star Wars Jedi Power Battles (PSX, DC) used a balance engine for the camera, so each character got an equil amount of screenspace.
"... but online play would become a little too complex in a game like this."
Not if they planned it right. There is a lot of scope for a game that includes stealth, snipering and darts. :~)
Exactly right! See: Lethal Weapon. :-) Not quite the same I know, but as adrian says, co-op can work.
Suppose your right. But action films can have more than one hero. Also 2 player co-op mode would be more of a team work game. The 1 player game would be amazing but the co-op mode would allow 2 people to play at the same time using team work to get past puzzles. It could also include different puzzles, so instead of in 1 player mode having to insert one key, you may need to turn two. I still think a co-op mode would allow gamers to have fun playing the game with a mate. It wouldnt make the game any less better.
That`s what I meant when I said:
ssxpro wrote:
There is an obvious problem with this in that a
> new character would be required to join and work with Snake, which would require
> major plot changes, and large alterations to Snake`s method of infiltration -
> its less easy to hide two people.
ssxpro wrote:
There is an obvious problem with this in that a
> new character would be required to join and work with Snake, which would require
> major plot changes, and large alterations to Snake`s method of infiltration -
> its less easy to hide two people.
Forgive me for avoiding the jump to the bandwagon but...
MGS2, hailed as some kind of playable, but ultimately "movie-like" amazing piece of software. Yes?
The heroic protagonist that we gamers recognise as much as say, Bruce Willis in the action film genre. Yes?
Well, "Solid Snake" has always been portrayed by Kojima as some kind of against all odds one man army, how on Earth can you give this movie like, heroic, one man against all odds, yadda yadda yadda... a co-operative mode?
Does that not kind of defeat both the point and the experience?
MGS2, if you ask me, is not the kind of game that requires multiple persons to be enjoyed, in fact I firmly believed it was desigened as a one player experience.
If its longevity you're looking for, I don't think the answers are to be found in a two player mode.
Silly sub games perhaps? Or more secrets to find and unlock than ones stick can be shaken at? Those would be fine, but adding a two player experience to MGS2, or the Metal Gear franchise, would just be wrong.
Fair enough, by all means, get developing a game "in the style of" MGS2, with multiple heroes and missions based on co-operative play, but leave Snake out of it. I can sense that he "doesn't work well with others"!
It'd be like adding a co-operative mode to Silent Hill 2 or something such.
Silent Hill 2 is all well and good when you're one lonely man armed wiv stick, ploughing cautiously through the fog not knowing were your next death is coming from.
But if it was "James Sunderland - heart broken man in search of his wife.... oh, and his mate Steve" a lot of the fear factor would be diminished and the game would be completely different from the original concept.
MGS2, hailed as some kind of playable, but ultimately "movie-like" amazing piece of software. Yes?
The heroic protagonist that we gamers recognise as much as say, Bruce Willis in the action film genre. Yes?
Well, "Solid Snake" has always been portrayed by Kojima as some kind of against all odds one man army, how on Earth can you give this movie like, heroic, one man against all odds, yadda yadda yadda... a co-operative mode?
Does that not kind of defeat both the point and the experience?
MGS2, if you ask me, is not the kind of game that requires multiple persons to be enjoyed, in fact I firmly believed it was desigened as a one player experience.
If its longevity you're looking for, I don't think the answers are to be found in a two player mode.
Silly sub games perhaps? Or more secrets to find and unlock than ones stick can be shaken at? Those would be fine, but adding a two player experience to MGS2, or the Metal Gear franchise, would just be wrong.
Fair enough, by all means, get developing a game "in the style of" MGS2, with multiple heroes and missions based on co-operative play, but leave Snake out of it. I can sense that he "doesn't work well with others"!
It'd be like adding a co-operative mode to Silent Hill 2 or something such.
Silent Hill 2 is all well and good when you're one lonely man armed wiv stick, ploughing cautiously through the fog not knowing were your next death is coming from.
But if it was "James Sunderland - heart broken man in search of his wife.... oh, and his mate Steve" a lot of the fear factor would be diminished and the game would be completely different from the original concept.
It would be best to be able to link up consoles. The Hide and Seek mode would probably be a failure on split screen as you you have to do is look at the persons screen. Link up 2 PS2s for co-op mode would prove the biggest selling point. This mode would certainly be the best 2 player game ever. The ability to be able to launch coordinated attacks would be amazing.
Page: