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"Goodbye Nintendo"

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Sat 12/04/03 at 18:55
Regular
Posts: 787
From what only appears to be a gaming rut of hell... Nintendo are sliding... fast.

The console has only been out a year but failing to reach tragets by just under 50% was a drastic disaster for Nintendo. GBA selling millions or not Nintendo will not keep a dead weight going as long as Microsoft will. Sales for Nintendo's Gamecube are at the stage where they ARE indeed making money... but recent reports show this is only a temporay thing.

Dixons and Argos have removed their Gamecube stock. Argos are only willing to stock under 50% of their normal Gamecube shipments but originally planned to cut the console all together. The GAME group have also scaled down its Gamecube size and so has Blockbuster/Choices who are removing Gamecube stock all together from certain stores. Despite shocking concerns it doesn't appear all TOO bad, Nintendo stock is still booming in certain retailers with Special Reserve indicating that they are enjoying some success with Nintendo's console. Also independant retailers across britain are enjoying some success.

Nevertheless it all looked grim but Nintendo have to face another problem... the 3rd parties. Whereas the N64 began with little 3rd party support and that grew, it is the opposite for the Cube. Codemasters already withdrew from Nintendo support and the success of Zelda was to define Infogrammes support. Capcom are trying to shift attention slowly back to Sony and SEGA's new plan includes a dramatic recline in Nintendo support.

In an attempt to counter-act the problem Nintendo are to produce a royalty scheme. Nintendo will also stop the high prices 3rd parties are forced to spend. EA, the biggest company that threatened to leave Nintendo, the company that broke SEGA, were the last straw for Nintendo and their 'wait and see' attitude. EA are vital to Nintendo's success and So Nintendo revealed that a deal broke last month, Nintendo offered Electronic Arts a fresh royalty break of the cost of game production, plus $1 US, resulting in the slew of titles announced by Electronic Arts during March.

A similar deal (although not AS great) is being done to all 3rd parties. Nintendo have their backs to the wall, the games that saved them during the N64 are NOT doing it this time. Zelda and Mario unsuprisingly hit the number one spot but for a mere week, Mario's success was similar to Pikmin's in Japan and this was a devestating blow. In an attempt to push Zelda Nintendo announced a bonus disc. It took record pre-orders but then, as it with Mario, the game dropped!

Metroid Prime did moderate success again and just as Nintendo had hoped... great but not world smashing. Nintendo realize that it is the other developers that can unleash a smash hit and so losing them would be killer.

It is the new titles that Nintendo are developing that look to save the company in the long run. Pikmin did VERY well and as the game gets a sequel, and another... the game will become bigger. Metroid Prime is also looking like a firm favourite for the west. Animal Crossing is also set to get bigger.

But these games will take time to reach critical success... the third parties and the dwindeling success of their ancient franchises Zelda and Mario are all Nintendo have left to stay alive.

Maybe it is time Pokemon returned to the home consoles... and then we may have that temporary revival that is so vital.

Dringo.
Sun 13/04/03 at 12:22
Regular
Posts: 18,185
I disagree maverick. Whereas Rare's titles don't match up the the late snes early 64 era (aka Donkey Kong Country, Goldeneye and Banjo) they still have stupidly high standards. The teams are still under stupidly high pressure and their games are still far superiror to near enough EVERY western developer (and yes that includes Retro).

Rare had a dissapointing time with Starfox Adventures, it felt incomplete, linear but the most important thing is it felt FUN! And that is what Rare still create to the dot, their games are incredibly good fun and whereas we were dissapointed with Starfox Adventures I was not dissapointed with the game they release prior to that... Conker's Bad Fur DAy. A game that even today ranks right at the top of my favourite games of all time.

Yes most of the teams leave but Rare are still a large, well funded, over ambitious company and to get in you HAVE to be the best! Rare are capable of creating anoter killer app easily, although I doubt it will be frome Kameo (I don't think western developers should make adventure games... although Rare aren't half bad). I am very upset by the loss of Rare. I mentioned in my post Nintendo's "NEED" for brand new titles to make up for the slightly dissapointing sales of Mario and Zelda (although still booming) and Perfect Dark was one of these "NEW" killer aps that would remain in the lime light for a decade or two, Banjo was forever growing in popularity and Conker... i felt... could grab the adult market by the horns for Nintendo.

But Nintendo kicked them out... and all the shame for it.
Sun 13/04/03 at 11:24
Regular
Posts: 13,611
N64 4 EVA wrote:
> But the BIGGEST mistake Nintendo made, and probably will ever make, was
> to sell RARE!

I don't actually think this was the case. If you look at things in perspective, Rare just aren't the people they used to be. Something not a lot of people take into consideration is the fact that a lot of the games developers disbanded from Rare in a split that came during production of Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day. Ever wondered why the last few levels on Perfect Dark weren't too special? Or why Conker lacked that certain touch Banjo Kazooie had? It's because of this split, and it's also worth noting that the people who left made up most of the Goldeneye development team.

I hear some went to various other companies (Retro Studios?), but the majority set up the multi-format development company, Free Radical Design who create the brilliant TimeSplitters games. It's also worth noting that when the Microsoft buyout came into light, a few of Rare's staff were said to have left - joining other companies such as Retro Studios. What you've got to do is look at Rare's games to really see that they need Nintendo more than Nintendo need them.

Banjo Kazooie, though fantastic, heavily borrowed from Mario 64, as did the rather uninspired sequel and disappointing Donkey Kong. Starfox Adventures was viciously overhyped, and as only a 7/10 game, it was a shock to most die hard Rare fans. And looking to the future, all Rare have are sequels and this new Kameo game which bears more than a striking resemblence to Pokemon.

Don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of talent to be found in Rare, but I just don't think they'll do as well without Nintendo's tolerance concerning release dates, and their guidance with the games. Rare were certainly in their prime during the time of the N64, but things have changed since then and I just can't see them faring so well with Microsoft. If you ask me, $350,000,000 was well worth it - and can be put towards much more prospective companies and third party allies such as Retro Studios, Silicon Knights and Capcom.

> The other thing is that Nintendo made a huge c!ck up with not having a
> DVD drive on the Gamecube (along with making it purple which was also
> a VERY bad decision). The fact is, when you dont know the next thing
> about games consoles (and lets face it the majority of gamers dont)
> which one are you gonna buy? The one that plays games only or the one
> that plays games, plays back your favourite CD's and lets you watch
> the latest blockbuster film? Its glaringly obvious isn't it! And
> Nintendo failed to see that! And now they are reaping the errors of
> their ways.

The decision against a DVD player meant that Nintendo could concentrate on making the GameCube the most developer friendly and cheapest console around. In my opinion, it's the best designed, too. Of course, many people won't release this - so I see your point. It would've been great to release the Panasonic Q over here and give people a choice, but it seems we'll have to make do with the GC for now. Anyway, most people either have a stand alone DVD player or console with DVD capabilities in their homes now, so it's not in such high demand.

> I dont want Nintendo to fail and I want to see the Cube go from
> strength to strength, its just that I think its already too late, I
> just hope i'm wrong!

Nintendo are doing just fine at the moment. However, in light of recent events, analysts think it may not last and I'd have to agree. It's by no means too late - Nintendo still have a chance to get their act together.
Sun 13/04/03 at 11:03
Regular
Posts: 13,611
Strafex wrote:
> Mav, the fact that Nintendo aren't all corporate and mainstream
> suck-ups is what makes them so special.

I agree - they've always been a bit controversial, a bit original, a bit daring. By 'a bit', I do of course mean 'very'. But this isn't the point. The public are cleverer than we give them credit for, and they WOULD buy these original and unique games if Nintendo advertised and marketed them in the correct way.

> They're making a tiday profit as it is.
> Why risk your business plashing all it's savings in an attempt to try
> and keep up with the expert marketing of MS and Sony?

The fact is, while making a tidy profit in the worldwide No 2 sales position, they are risking their business by doing the complete opposite to attempting to keep up with the marketing of MS and Sony. They have the money to advertise on a similar scale, and if they don't, this 'tidy profit' could be gone.

> They're not doing as well as they thought they would, but they
> could've done worse.

I agree - but they could be doing much, much better.
Sun 13/04/03 at 09:42
Regular
"Conker the King"
Posts: 247
No! You're missing the point. Its not about Rare themselves, its about the 'killer games' that they produce. Goldeneye literally saved the N64. Everyone who knows about the N64 must agree with that, even if you didnt actually like playing Goldeneye. That game took the world by storm. It was 'the' game to have for at least 3 years! Nintendo have to look to the future. Mario and Zelda unfortunately have a 'childish' reputation and people have moved on from that (their loss). As one magazine put it "Nintendo is all about innovation and pushing gameplay forwards, but in a situation where Nintendo needs to be appealing to the adult market, a Lord of the Rings-style Zelda adventure would have set the Western world alight. Nintendo needs to read the market far better than it has been doing".
Sun 13/04/03 at 01:47
Regular
"Peace Respect Punk"
Posts: 8,069
I think the Rare issue is over-rated in importance. If you went up to Mr. Joe Average who was shopping in a Game or EB (same thing now...) store and asked about Rare he'd probably stare blankly unless he owned an N64... As far as I can see the only people who much about Rare are the Nintendo fans and now the Xbox fans (though I'd doubt even they know THAT much about Rare, seeing as they've yet to release a game for Xbox)

Point is I don't think the sale of Rare had a huge effect on GameCube sales... majority of people who were looking forward to Rare's Cube games were likely people who were also looking forward to Nintendo's games, so would have got a Cube regardless...
Sun 13/04/03 at 00:33
Regular
Posts: 18,185
Rare are a crucial loss to Nintendo. Despite making losing money Rare can produce a title that can save Nintendo. Goldeneye is responsible for the increase third party support in europe no denying that.

Retro Studio's IS the new Rare but it would have been a dream if Nintendo had both.

Perfect Dark, looking back, I loved so much. If the game turns out to be a hit I will buy an X-box for £130... I may get one for my birthday.
Sun 13/04/03 at 00:05
Regular
"Conker the King"
Posts: 247
I agree with everything you've all said actually and I really do believe that Nintendo have been given a kick up the a!se re the poor sales. They have suddenly realised that they MUST do something, and quickly, to boost the sales before even more third party developers leave the Nintendo fold. But the BIGGEST mistake Nintendo made, and probably will ever make, was to sell RARE! I still cannot understand what the hell they were thinking of. I know it made them a truck load of cash but in the long run they will realise that they have made an horrendous decision.

I believe that the decision to sell rare was not Nintendo of Japans, but Nintendo of America! The excuse that rare didnt make enough profits for Nintendo in the year 2001 was just ridiculous. NO-ONE made any profit with the N64 this late in its life, people had stopped buying it and had moved on. I mean Conkers Bad Fur Day was totally unique and a superb game, but because people weren't playing N64's in great numbers anymore the game just didnt sell, and to be honest it deserved to sell by the million, it was that good. Along with Banjo Tooie. Again, another great game that was never, ever, going to be matched by anything on the Playstation, but the masses owned Playstations, so again Banjo Tooie just didn't sell as much as it should of done.

The fact is RARE were SO important to Nintendo that to sell them off was a decision they will live to regret. The Gamecube is struggling and unlike the N64 it doesn't have Rare to prop it up! And the N64 wasn't in as much trouble as early on its life as the Gamecube is now!

The other thing is that Nintendo made a huge c!ck up with not having a DVD drive on the Gamecube (along with making it purple which was also a VERY bad decision). The fact is, when you dont know the next thing about games consoles (and lets face it the majority of gamers dont) which one are you gonna buy? The one that plays games only or the one that plays games, plays back your favourite CD's and lets you watch the latest blockbuster film? Its glaringly obvious isn't it! And Nintendo failed to see that! And now they are reaping the errors of their ways.

I dont want Nintendo to fail and I want to see the Cube go from strength to strength, its just that I think its already too late, I just hope i'm wrong!
Sat 12/04/03 at 23:33
Regular
Posts: 6,801
Nintendo have been dealt a bit of a dodgy hand. Any failings are no fault of there own. For the second time running they have produced a console of considerably higher quality than the sony offering yet have not reaped the rewards. There can be no debate, the N64 was a much better built console with far superior games to what the playstation offered yet they amass no where near the sales of the psx. It is more down to the blind gullibility of the public than what is on offer.
Sat 12/04/03 at 23:18
Regular
Posts: 9,848
Mav, the fact that Nintendo aren't all corporate and mainstream suck-ups is what makes them so special.

They're making a tiday profit as it is.
Why risk your business plashing all it's savings in an attempt to try and keep up with the expert marketing of MS and Sony?

They're not doing as well as they thought they would, but they could've done worse.
Sat 12/04/03 at 23:14
Regular
Posts: 13,611
This really gets to me. Nintendo are the best and most consistent games developer out there, with two brilliantly made consoles (the GameCube and Game Boy Advance SP) and an impressive back catalogue for each. But why on earth is that all they concentrate on? Advertising is dismal, demos are non-existant and nothing's been done to alter the childish perception of their company. They have the quality, they just need to show it.

Do they not care Argos and Dixons, probably the two largest retailers in Britain have almost dropped their products completely? It certainly doesn't seem like it - Microsoft and Sony have been known to buy shelf space, why can't Nintendo? And what was with their appaling European Christmas strategy? No wonder the Xbox slipped into a neat number two position, Nintendo brought out their deals afterwards!

They also seem extremely lazy about third party support too. They should be doing all they can to secure Capcom and Sega as major exclusive developers, but with recent games being dropped and exclusivity titles shed from both companies, their two major allies seem to be fading away. So many times have I seen games, tipped for release on PC, PS2 and Xbox. Surely it can't be hard for Nintendo to secure a GC version?

But at the end of the day, it's quite easy to focus just on the negative. Despite a dismal Xmas, Nintendo managed to sell 1.5 million units across Europe against the Xbox's 1.4 (a figure stated by Nintendo and later confirmed by ELSPA). Sales have also boomed across the continent thanks to releases of Metroid Prime (a title that was, thankfully, well advertised for a change) and Resi Zero, not to mention various price drops and bundles.

Nintendo have an admittedly shakey second place in America, just clinching second place over Christmas thanks to (yes, you guessed it) Metroid Prime and Resident Evil Zero. I say shakey - because the weekly sales seem to be erratic, sometimes better than the Xbox, sometimes worse. It's been doing well recently, though, thanks to a great free game bundle and is sitting in a very nice place where overall sales are concerned.

In Japan, sales have been fantastic. Since it's release, it's been selling more than the Xbox in a ratio of about 4:1 on average and certain highlights include it reaching 150,000 (just 1,000 less than the PS2) the week Zelda: TWW was released. Bill Gates recently said they were satisfied with second place in Japan. What he was referring to was one week when the Xbox sold about 700 units more than the GC. During this week, absolutely no interesting GC games were released and one, strongly Japanese Xbox title was (DOAXBV).

Analysts say Nintendo, year after year make the most profit out of the three gaming giants thanks to the roaring worldwide success of the GBA, their business strategies and the rather nicely selling GameCube. That's not to mention their top quality games, either. Due to the fact that the GC has arguably the most promising 2003 line-up and some good deals on the horizon, people think this is set to continue. But with the Xbox's recent price drop and unrivalled success of the PS2, not to mention this sudden slew of bad news - I'm not so sure.

So this is what gets to me - Nintendo are doing rather well at the moment, but what with current disappointments they may well slip from the worldwide No. 2 position. They really need to push the boat out - secure exclusives from third parties, make more deals such as the EA one and advertise to the mass market. If they're doing quite well now, imagine how well they could be doing if they weren't so bloody lazy where PR, third parties and various retailers are concerned!

Come on Nintendo, you know it makes sense.

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