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"Lost it?"

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Mon 08/12/03 at 13:24
Regular
Posts: 18,185
Reading the recent retro freaks magazine Games TM the fear that Nintendo have lost it dawned on me. Here was a magazine that criticised everything the Gamecube had to offer, showing SNES games claiming “This is what Nintendo used to be about”. They weren’t anti-Nintendo although definitely pro-X-box they were disappointed as yet another Mario Kart game fails to beat it’s predecessors.

There appears to be two schools of criticisms, one that Nintendo have changed their lead franchises too much (mainly the die-hard fan base) and two that Nintendo are no longer fresh and new (mainly the opposition fans). Both totally contradictory in terms and so one is wrong, well no actually they are both wrong.

In a society obsessed with comparison it is no surprise Nintendo may appear to falter in its new generation. How can you say Super Mario Sunshine doesn’t surpass Super Mario 64? “Easy” I’m told “the game does nothing new, it is shorter and lacks variation”. Eh? Are you trying to tell me that Mario Sunshine does nothing over Mario 64???? Mario 64 was a revolution, a stunning title that started this interactive 3D world and no one can begin to describe the effect this game had on the industry. BUT it wasn’t nearly as good as you remember it, you always look back through rose tinted glasses, games get better as time goes on. Sunshine was easily as fun as Mario 64 was, it may have had no ice level but we had an underwater section, a ghost house section. A lava segment and even a roller coaster level! Despite it being set on an island, which is another sign of Mario progressing from his traditional worlds, the game did consist of far more variety than first discussed. Then there is FLUDD, who is fantastic SIMPLY because of the depth it added to Mario’s own genre. Mario in platforming had a set height and length he could jump, the main challenge was defeating enemies. In Sunshine, Miyamoto invented a device that incorporated a host of new platforming moves and Mario’s weapon as well. It was a VERY good idea; set up with a perfect control system and once again he set up millions of puzzles to work with these new moves. It really was a revolution and a superior title to Mario 64!

But enough about how sunshine surpasses Mario 64 as a stand-alone game. I want to move onto my prime example of The Legend of Zelda. Zelda suffers from something I call give and take syndrome. In order to take the game needs to give. Lets take Ocarina of Time, a game everyone claims to be the best 3D Zelda game. Rubbish the best 3D Zelda game is Wind Waker and that is a fact. Ocarina of Time has the same magic as Wind Waker did, trust me IT DID it felt just as wonderful to play and I know it looks more magical now but compare playing the Wind Waker to playing Ocarina of time and you’ll remember they felt both just as good. But Wind Waker had problems, this is unusual, the sea journeys at times got tiresome, the interaction was very poor and the storyline wasn’t held together too well. But doesn’t a combat system to die for (so beautiful and amazing to control), the worlds best use of cel-shading graphics ever (so amazing) and a level of absolute hilarity make up for it? Doesn’t the ability to fly, the various use of the wind, the new cel-shaded look and the new idea of the sea make this a great example of how sequels should be done? Lets look at Majora’s Mask, doesn’t come close to Ocarina of time they said, and why? Well because of the smaller and less epic filled landscape, the easier dungeons, the crappy saving system and reduced length. But doesn’t the BEST EVER INTERACTION IN A ZELDA GAME make up for that (the 3 day loop is the most ingenious idea to date), doesn’t the gameplay improving and effective mask collecting out match Gold Skultula’s completely? Isn’t the atmosphere the darkest and most daunting in any Zelda game ever? Yes that is right, doing something-new, innovative and amazing means that something has to give in the game. A level of interaction like none other meant the developer was working solidly on that and so the story was reduced. So the interaction could work so well (character doing something different all the time) meant a set number of days were needed and to stop the game becoming too easy the “save anywhere” approach had to be removed…

So lets look at Ocarina of Time, yes it may have be the longest game, the most amazing storyline BUT the enemies were actually rather poor, Hyrule field is big barren and dull, we had to sit through that storyline regarding the 3 Gods TWICE and it was dull the first time and the game at times really felt like a dodgy puzzle game (the water temple)…

Nintendo have not lost it at all. Mario Kart: Double Dash!! is FAR better than Mario Kart 64 and Super Mario Kart. Nintendo have yet to create a masterpiece like they did on the N64 (and oh boy did they create some masterpieces) but they have managed to improve their old masterpieces with new and fresh ideas and take their series’ in other directions. Other than perhaps Metroid Prime Nintendo haven’t created a new game defining moment. This is true, despite their best attempts with Pikmin (give it time). But play the games… and stick with them and the magic is still there… in full force. Just remember the movement from 2D into 3D was always going to be more revolutionary than 3D into 3D… and after all for such a small jump Nintendo have managed to alter their best franchises in the most ingenious of ways.

Dringo.
Mon 15/12/03 at 18:38
Regular
"gsybe you!"
Posts: 18,825
It's hardly a 'job'. It's beautiful and engaging.

Pish pish.
Mon 15/12/03 at 18:29
Regular
Posts: 10,437
Well I happen to find navigating my way around different areas, solving puzzles and killing enemies fun. Plus the boss battles are genius. Not everyone finds it fun, but I do. It's also stupidly addictive.
Mon 15/12/03 at 15:24
Regular
Posts: 15,681
Just to clarify something TGM said:

In one of the original Donkey Kong games before Rareware got their hands on the franchise, you played as Donkey Kong trying to rescue his son from Mario.

So, although Mario wasn't technically a bad guy, you were still playing against him.
Mon 15/12/03 at 15:13
Regular
Posts: 8,220
(Going back about 3 pages, as I’ve not been able to get to a computer)

Dringo wrote:
>“Grrrr I've been doing this for year and everyone used to accept it, I write a one-sided report and people, offended by my point of view, argue it.”

Then a couple of days later Dringo wrote:
>“I did not say I offended to get attention…”


Hmm. I think that speaks for itself.


More from the second of those posts:
>“The thing is it is blatently my point of view as it says Dringo in nice purple lettering by the side. This is Dringo's post, Dringo's point of view.”

>“Why should I bother represting other points of view if I know that those that have said point of view will make it in the post?”

>“…it was about time I put my 2 pence worth in and see if I can make an affect.”


Fine, you’re welcome to your opinion. But insulting people to get attention (as you sometimes admit to) and writing up your opinion as solid irrefutable fact (which is very different to simply not brown-nosing the other side of the argument) just seems like incredibly poor form from someone who has so much potential to do better.
Mon 15/12/03 at 00:52
Regular
Posts: 9,848
"it" was when they managed to improve EVERY aspect of the game, not just one or two and forget about the rest of it.

They've not lost "it", they're just using "it" so sparingly that they might as well have! :-P
Mon 15/12/03 at 00:46
Regular
Posts: 18,185
But all i say is they may have reduced the size of a few games (although only a bit for Wind Waker) but they still have the magic and the gameplay is far better than previous Zelda's.

I mean Wind Waker had that magic feel that was in Ocarina of Time which was the important thing.

Plus it was more fun.

Thusly Nintendo haven't lost it, just altered it.
Mon 15/12/03 at 00:20
Regular
Posts: 9,848
But still a baby version of Orcarina of Time with a greased joints and a makeover.

I'm not going to insult Nintendo by saying it's not a good game, and I'm most certainly not going to insult them further by saying that their past works of groundbraking genius aren't as amazing as this "rehash".

:-P


Yes, Windwaker is great, and it has those moments that only Nintendo can produce, but Zelda games used to do so much more.
And that's why people say Nintendo have lost it! :-P
Sun 14/12/03 at 23:59
Regular
Posts: 18,185
Wind Waker was the most fun, funny, enjoyable, nostaligic and best looking Zelda game to date.

And you moan that the story wasn't big enough.

Goddamn Nintendo fans are demanding.
Sun 14/12/03 at 23:48
Regular
Posts: 9,848
Yeah, but it broke the Zelda tradition of setting the gaming world on fire though, didn't it! :-)
Sun 14/12/03 at 23:47
"I love yo... lamp."
Posts: 19,577
Strafio wrote:
> By the way, like the new name? :-)

Not really :-p

Wind Waker was the weakest Zelda game in years. I will not budge on that.

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