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"Piracy"

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Thu 04/03/10 at 13:56
Moderator
"possibly impossible"
Posts: 24,985
Inspired by Jubba's comments in the ipod thread, I decided to open a thread about media piracy; software, movies, TV Programmes etc.

My view is that there are easy ways to justify piracy and it's pretty commonplace because it's easy to do. But if you look at it objectively it's still the same as stealing, albeit not stealing anything physical.

I used to be happy doing it too, I admit. Swapping Spectrum or C64 games in the school playground was easy for anyone who had a midi system with a double tape deck and with a bit of stopping and starting you could easily get 6 or more games on a C60 tape.

At the same time Video tapes and recorders made it easier to get to see films not long after they were at the cinema, with even a local video rental shop distributing copies of Robocop and Gremlins long before they were on TV or available to rent. It was also useful for seeing banned films, which allowed me to watch Zombie Flesh Eaters courtesy of someone in the charity I worked for and Clockwork Orange, which quickly got copied many times.

Nowadays its digital copies from the internet which are the easiest to get hold of. Just downloading a bittorrent client and going to google will get most of the games, movies or TV series you could wish for.

The issue, though, is this. If you're stealing intellectual rights rather than physical material it does seem to muddy the waters of what is right or wrong.

For example, if you download and watch a TV series that you can see on TV already, is that wrong? How about if that series was available on a channel you didn't have? If you then deleted the file after watching wouldn't that be the same as going to a friend's house to watch?

Likewise with films, if you go to the cinema and watch Avatar, for example, then download it and THEN go and buy it when it finally comes out, is that wrong?

With games I would think most people would download them and not go and buy the originals afterwards. My first PSP was hacked and easy to use with copied games, but I didn't bother with the current one as I wanted to support what Sony and the developers were doing with the cheaper games to download. Same with the app store, there are some fantastic apps at great prices from small developers who would suffer if people pirated their games.

As a big supporter of small developers I'm concerned over the affects that piracy on PSP, iPod and even consoles has on the company and on prices for those who choose to pay for them.
Fri 05/03/10 at 08:01
Regular
"How Ironic"
Posts: 4,312
Well the simple answer is this: Life sucks.
Fri 05/03/10 at 07:59
Moderator
"possibly impossible"
Posts: 24,985
Also, consider these three situations:

Many people download a game instead of buying it. The publisher may be huge, but the developer is small and the publisher sees sales of their game are not that good. They then proceed to sack said developer and go and make another sequel to something that sold more and which is probably more mainstream.

Likewise, a small producer of films is hired by someone like Warner Bros to make an interesting non-generic film, it doesn't do that well due to people downloading instead of going to see it so Warner doesn't take another risk with them and goes with something generic in the future.

And a third case: a small coding company release a game on itunes for 59p but it gets downloaded by more people with Jailbroken iPods than by people paying the small fee. What happens to that money the developer would have got to perhaps make something even better next time?
Thu 04/03/10 at 21:58
Regular
"Twenty quid."
Posts: 11,452
At the end of the day, downloading a game, movie, TV programme or music illegally is, well, illegal. Whether you then go on to buy it legally matters not, karma doesn't come into the law.

People forget that there are people who make the copies or smuggle the cameras into cinemas and then upload them for others to download. If the downloaders stopped downloading then it's a fairly safe bet that the uploaders would stop, too.

Saying something like "I don't feel bad because it's a huge company who rip us off blah blah blah" is stupid and naive -- you don't get to choose, it's stealing; end of.

Yes, the anti-piracy messages at the start of legitimate DVDs are annoying and pointless, but where else can they put them? They have to try something and, to them, this is the only way they can more or less guarantee that it's seen.

I've downloaded more than a few films, TV programmes and music myself, but I've never tried to justify it; it's wrong and I know it. I have mostly stopped now -- I only have one track in my music collection that's downloaded ("Megablast (Hip Hop On Precinct 13)" by Bomb The Bass ... can't find it anywhere!) and only download films I can't get to see at the cinema (I can't go on my own and can't always convince someone else to take me). But even I know that the "Ooh, I'm disabled and housebound and can't get to the cinema" won't stop me from being prosecuted if I'm caught -- illegal is illegal whether you can walk or not!
Thu 04/03/10 at 21:39
Regular
"Devil in disguise"
Posts: 3,151
pete_21 wrote:
> I reckon most of us record stuff off TV or SKY.That's technically
> piracy as well isn't it ?.We are making a copy of material that
> we do not own the rights to,are we not ?

We have the right to record things and watch at a later date under the "fair deal". However if you've still got your recording years later, its going to be difficult to argue that fair use applies anymore.
Thu 04/03/10 at 21:12
Regular
"How Ironic"
Posts: 4,312
The most hilarious item on normal DVDs is the anti-piracy clip. "You wouldn't steal a handbag. You wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a movie. Piracy. Is. Illegal."

Yeh i don't get it. No I wouldn't steal a handbag or a car, unless they belonged to some big company who feel they can charge a stupid price and include many trailers on said car/handbag and make a huge profit out of it all, then fork out a couple of dodgy sequels.

It's just too easy to do nowadays, they can't expect people to feel morally wrong and fork out the £10 in Tescos for a legit version instead. Piracy all the way.

*EDIT* And it's also a pretty bad place to put a anti-piracy clip, seeing as pirated versions do not include these clips, and the people who buy legit copies have to suffer for a minute or two while they're whipped by the law for no apparent reason. Kudos to the brainbox who thought of that.
Thu 04/03/10 at 17:30
Regular
"I like turtles"
Posts: 5,368
Machie wrote:
> Is
> this
> why we prefer pirated DVDs?

That's ace.

That's exactly what I say when the THX logo comes on ! :D

I reckon most of us record stuff off TV or SKY.That's technically piracy as well isn't it ?.We are making a copy of material that we do not own the rights to,are we not ?.Whether film studios,record companies or software producers like it or not they cannot control what people do in the privacy of their own homes.Once any form of media has been released it is wide open to being duplicated and distributed by whatever means available.Any form of copy protection,regional coding etc. has always and will always be defeated.It's a challenge for someone isn't it ?.

Anyway,nice post pb.We could do with some more like this.
Thu 04/03/10 at 16:58
Regular
Posts: 19,415
Is this why we prefer pirated DVDs?

I'm ripping about 200 CDs that my family owns so that I can put them on my iPod. Is it illegal to do this? I think it is, but as you know millions are doing it. What about DVDs, am I allowed toback them up on my PC and watch them on my iPod?
Thu 04/03/10 at 15:57
Regular
"How Ironic"
Posts: 4,312
I have to say i'm in full support of piracy, although I have to be careful to not advertise it on the forums. Films, Games, Music, Programmes, I've done the lot. Currently, I'm gutted that I can't jailbreak my ipod though until a new jailbreak is released for 3G 3.1.3 :(
Thu 04/03/10 at 15:46
Regular
Posts: 9,995
It's wrong, I do it. Life goes on.
Thu 04/03/10 at 14:51
Regular
"Embrace the Martian"
Posts: 285
It's easy to play the ignorance card in my opinion, everyone does it, it's easy, you don't get caught, therefore it doesn't matter. The issue is, although piracy is illegal, it is commonplace because it is not monitored enough, the resources aren't there to cope with it.

I struggle deciding whether it is right or wrong when it comes to someone watching a pirated film, then buying it to put in their collection. They still eventually paid for the right to view it, albeit on a different type of media. So karmatically that cancels out right?

Then again you could liken that to stealing a car from your local dealership, then coming back to pay for it when you can be bothered. The difference being you don't really get caught for piracy.

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