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Inspired by Jubba's comments in the ipod thread, I decided to open a thread about media piracy; software, movies, TV Programmes etc.
My view is that there are easy ways to justify piracy and it's pretty commonplace because it's easy to do. But if you look at it objectively it's still the same as stealing, albeit not stealing anything physical.
I used to be happy doing it too, I admit. Swapping Spectrum or C64 games in the school playground was easy for anyone who had a midi system with a double tape deck and with a bit of stopping and starting you could easily get 6 or more games on a C60 tape.
At the same time Video tapes and recorders made it easier to get to see films not long after they were at the cinema, with even a local video rental shop distributing copies of Robocop and Gremlins long before they were on TV or available to rent. It was also useful for seeing banned films, which allowed me to watch Zombie Flesh Eaters courtesy of someone in the charity I worked for and Clockwork Orange, which quickly got copied many times.
Nowadays its digital copies from the internet which are the easiest to get hold of. Just downloading a bittorrent client and going to google will get most of the games, movies or TV series you could wish for.
The issue, though, is this. If you're stealing intellectual rights rather than physical material it does seem to muddy the waters of what is right or wrong.
For example, if you download and watch a TV series that you can see on TV already, is that wrong? How about if that series was available on a channel you didn't have? If you then deleted the file after watching wouldn't that be the same as going to a friend's house to watch?
Likewise with films, if you go to the cinema and watch Avatar, for example, then download it and THEN go and buy it when it finally comes out, is that wrong?
With games I would think most people would download them and not go and buy the originals afterwards. My first PSP was hacked and easy to use with copied games, but I didn't bother with the current one as I wanted to support what Sony and the developers were doing with the cheaper games to download. Same with the app store, there are some fantastic apps at great prices from small developers who would suffer if people pirated their games.
As a big supporter of small developers I'm concerned over the affects that piracy on PSP, iPod and even consoles has on the company and on prices for those who choose to pay for them.
My view is that there are easy ways to justify piracy and it's pretty commonplace because it's easy to do. But if you look at it objectively it's still the same as stealing, albeit not stealing anything physical.
I used to be happy doing it too, I admit. Swapping Spectrum or C64 games in the school playground was easy for anyone who had a midi system with a double tape deck and with a bit of stopping and starting you could easily get 6 or more games on a C60 tape.
At the same time Video tapes and recorders made it easier to get to see films not long after they were at the cinema, with even a local video rental shop distributing copies of Robocop and Gremlins long before they were on TV or available to rent. It was also useful for seeing banned films, which allowed me to watch Zombie Flesh Eaters courtesy of someone in the charity I worked for and Clockwork Orange, which quickly got copied many times.
Nowadays its digital copies from the internet which are the easiest to get hold of. Just downloading a bittorrent client and going to google will get most of the games, movies or TV series you could wish for.
The issue, though, is this. If you're stealing intellectual rights rather than physical material it does seem to muddy the waters of what is right or wrong.
For example, if you download and watch a TV series that you can see on TV already, is that wrong? How about if that series was available on a channel you didn't have? If you then deleted the file after watching wouldn't that be the same as going to a friend's house to watch?
Likewise with films, if you go to the cinema and watch Avatar, for example, then download it and THEN go and buy it when it finally comes out, is that wrong?
With games I would think most people would download them and not go and buy the originals afterwards. My first PSP was hacked and easy to use with copied games, but I didn't bother with the current one as I wanted to support what Sony and the developers were doing with the cheaper games to download. Same with the app store, there are some fantastic apps at great prices from small developers who would suffer if people pirated their games.
As a big supporter of small developers I'm concerned over the affects that piracy on PSP, iPod and even consoles has on the company and on prices for those who choose to pay for them.
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Alfonse wrote:
> This moral superiority will get you nowhere Timmargh [...]
I wasn't trying to feel or come across as morally superior, as I said: I've done it myself. I was just trying to say that there's no point trying to justify it.
> This moral superiority will get you nowhere Timmargh [...]
I wasn't trying to feel or come across as morally superior, as I said: I've done it myself. I was just trying to say that there's no point trying to justify it.
tnc wrote:
> Recording something you have already paid to watch isn't piracy.
> You aren't stealing it as you've already paid for the license to
> watch the channel itself
>
> You're probably mixing it up slightly with redistribution rights.
> You aren't technically allowed to copy copyrighted CDs etc, nor
> are you allowed to sell these copies on.
>
> You're allowed to record something off the television because, as
> I say, you've already paid for the programme within the license
> and it's for your own personal use.
I may or may not know of someone who recorded Aliens (which as far as I'm aware 20th Century Fox still own the rights to) on CH4 (I think it was) the other night then may or may not have burned a copy onto DVDR using their PVR/DVD recorder for a friend.I'm struggling to determine whether that was an act of sweet,lovely kindness or evil,heinous piracy.Be damned if I know ? :S
tnc wrote:
> Plus, otherwise, VHS and DVD recorders would be banned, surely
What about camcorders ?,nasty evil things.Being used to make illegal copies of films which are only just in the cinema.What about photocopiers and scanners ?,you could make copies of the entire works of English literature with those.If you took that argument to its conclusion then using half of our electrical items would need to be outlawed.
The point is,I don't think people really know or care what's legal/illegal in the copyright world anymore.If something they want is available then they will obtain it by whichever means they have at their disposal.
> Recording something you have already paid to watch isn't piracy.
> You aren't stealing it as you've already paid for the license to
> watch the channel itself
>
> You're probably mixing it up slightly with redistribution rights.
> You aren't technically allowed to copy copyrighted CDs etc, nor
> are you allowed to sell these copies on.
>
> You're allowed to record something off the television because, as
> I say, you've already paid for the programme within the license
> and it's for your own personal use.
I may or may not know of someone who recorded Aliens (which as far as I'm aware 20th Century Fox still own the rights to) on CH4 (I think it was) the other night then may or may not have burned a copy onto DVDR using their PVR/DVD recorder for a friend.I'm struggling to determine whether that was an act of sweet,lovely kindness or evil,heinous piracy.Be damned if I know ? :S
tnc wrote:
> Plus, otherwise, VHS and DVD recorders would be banned, surely
What about camcorders ?,nasty evil things.Being used to make illegal copies of films which are only just in the cinema.What about photocopiers and scanners ?,you could make copies of the entire works of English literature with those.If you took that argument to its conclusion then using half of our electrical items would need to be outlawed.
The point is,I don't think people really know or care what's legal/illegal in the copyright world anymore.If something they want is available then they will obtain it by whichever means they have at their disposal.
I find the argument made against downloading pirate games slightly ridiculous, as it was inferred earlier in the post that you were fine with all other forms of piracy. I honestly don't think you can pick and choose, whatever form you choose, it's the same
For me personally, I don't attempt to justify what I'm doing, as there's little point. In the same way justifying why you punched someone in the face can only go so far.. a crime committed is a crime committed after all, and there aren't any defences in criminal law to help out on this one
I've never been that big on illegal downloading, I used to occasionally find a song on Limewire. But then the awful quality and laptop-crippling viruses sort of cancelled out, and I'd have rather just bought the tracks
For the most part it's both the simplicity and the fact it's free (free in the same way "five finger discount" operates shops, ie, you make it free). If I was arguing only that it's easier to download/watch online, I'd have to admit I could just pay to join a legitimate download site
As it is, I'd rather save the money and stream films for free, as in all honesty, there's next to no chance I'll get caught. It really is, unfortunately, that simple
The piracy advert is ridiculous simply because downloading a film is no less illegal, but you have a slim to none chance of being caught. Start grabbing handbags or jacking cars and it's more a matter of when than if you get caught!
edit - As an addition, I have to say that even if myself, everyone at my university, yourselves and everyone at your places of work etc all acted on our consciences and decided piracy really couldn't be condoned, and stopped, it would make next to no difference. Yes, there would be less people doing it, but there will always be a demand from people who's desire to be entertained without spending their cash to do so outweights their conscience
The only real way for it to be cut down is tougher enforcement policy. If people were regularly being caught for downloading a couple of films, chipping games consoles etc then less people would be willing to do it. But then it would become an infringement on our civil liberties, or so people would claim. So it's all swings and roundabouts
For me personally, I don't attempt to justify what I'm doing, as there's little point. In the same way justifying why you punched someone in the face can only go so far.. a crime committed is a crime committed after all, and there aren't any defences in criminal law to help out on this one
I've never been that big on illegal downloading, I used to occasionally find a song on Limewire. But then the awful quality and laptop-crippling viruses sort of cancelled out, and I'd have rather just bought the tracks
For the most part it's both the simplicity and the fact it's free (free in the same way "five finger discount" operates shops, ie, you make it free). If I was arguing only that it's easier to download/watch online, I'd have to admit I could just pay to join a legitimate download site
As it is, I'd rather save the money and stream films for free, as in all honesty, there's next to no chance I'll get caught. It really is, unfortunately, that simple
The piracy advert is ridiculous simply because downloading a film is no less illegal, but you have a slim to none chance of being caught. Start grabbing handbags or jacking cars and it's more a matter of when than if you get caught!
edit - As an addition, I have to say that even if myself, everyone at my university, yourselves and everyone at your places of work etc all acted on our consciences and decided piracy really couldn't be condoned, and stopped, it would make next to no difference. Yes, there would be less people doing it, but there will always be a demand from people who's desire to be entertained without spending their cash to do so outweights their conscience
The only real way for it to be cut down is tougher enforcement policy. If people were regularly being caught for downloading a couple of films, chipping games consoles etc then less people would be willing to do it. But then it would become an infringement on our civil liberties, or so people would claim. So it's all swings and roundabouts
pete_21 wrote:
> I reckon most of us record stuff off TV or SKY.That's technically
> piracy as well isn't it ?
Recording something you have already paid to watch isn't piracy. You aren't stealing it as you've already paid for the license to watch the channel itself
You're probably mixing it up slightly with redistribution rights. You aren't technically allowed to copy copyrighted CDs etc, nor are you allowed to sell these copies on.
You're allowed to record something off the television because, as I say, you've already paid for the programme within the license and it's for your own personal use.
Plus, otherwise, VHS and DVD recorders would be banned, surely
I'm a little sketchy on the ins and outs of the law to be honest, but when I start studying copyright law next year I'll be back to bore you all with the gruelling details ;)
> I reckon most of us record stuff off TV or SKY.That's technically
> piracy as well isn't it ?
Recording something you have already paid to watch isn't piracy. You aren't stealing it as you've already paid for the license to watch the channel itself
You're probably mixing it up slightly with redistribution rights. You aren't technically allowed to copy copyrighted CDs etc, nor are you allowed to sell these copies on.
You're allowed to record something off the television because, as I say, you've already paid for the programme within the license and it's for your own personal use.
Plus, otherwise, VHS and DVD recorders would be banned, surely
I'm a little sketchy on the ins and outs of the law to be honest, but when I start studying copyright law next year I'll be back to bore you all with the gruelling details ;)
I have to say that out of all the things that can be pirated, games is not one that I do. If I want them, I'll buy them, it's simple as that. What really irritates me is when people I know justify their stance of 360 > PS3 due to the fact that the 360 is easier to get illegal games for. That, to me, is not a legitimate reason, and there's far better arguments.
On the case of piracy as a whole. It's huge, absolutely massive, and there's no denying that. But would killing off piracy result in a huge amount more revenue (and therefore profit) through "legitimate" sales...
...no, probably not. Most "pirates" would probably do without what they are pirating for the most part. To be quite honest, if it wasn't for piracy, I probably wouldn't have spent as much money on many things as I have done (Football Management games and albums, mainly).
On the case of piracy as a whole. It's huge, absolutely massive, and there's no denying that. But would killing off piracy result in a huge amount more revenue (and therefore profit) through "legitimate" sales...
...no, probably not. Most "pirates" would probably do without what they are pirating for the most part. To be quite honest, if it wasn't for piracy, I probably wouldn't have spent as much money on many things as I have done (Football Management games and albums, mainly).
pete_21 wrote:
> Anyone remember the piracy ad on The IT Crowd ?,that was
> brilliant !.
Lmao - yeh it was hilarious, i have the box set for all 3 series
> Anyone remember the piracy ad on The IT Crowd ?,that was
> brilliant !.
Lmao - yeh it was hilarious, i have the box set for all 3 series
I wouldn't have gone to see it..... I would have got a DVD of it from the local booty...
Timmargh wrote:
> If by "life" you actually mean "pirates."
>
> And not the "Arr, matey!" variety.
I actually think piracy is a bit of a daft name for it TBH.Then again I doubt Copyright Thieves Of The Caribbean would have done much at the box office.
> If by "life" you actually mean "pirates."
>
> And not the "Arr, matey!" variety.
I actually think piracy is a bit of a daft name for it TBH.Then again I doubt Copyright Thieves Of The Caribbean would have done much at the box office.
This moral superiority will get you nowhere Timmargh. Take from others, and don't feel bad about it. End of the day we'll both end up in the same place; in the ground providing food for maggots. Except I'll have watched a bunch of indies movies I couldn't be bothered to walk to the shops and buy, and you won't have!
End of the day, I'm getting a product for nothing so...
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