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I got Blink 182's album in November last year. Amazing it is, in fact I'd say one of the best albums I have ever heard. Sadly, although many do, not everyone thinks so. There are 2 sources of criticism, the first are from the anti-pop punk crusaders claiming the album is nothing more than "generic pop punk". The problem with this criticism is that bar first release "feeling this" the album is nothing like any traditional Pop punk. The second source of criticism is the current Blink fans claiming they wanted something "like the old stuff".
I can name 5 people in my small friendship circle who wanted a more, "cheery pop-punk album and not this good but depressive mature-punk album". My reply to them is simple: "If you want cheery Punk listen to Blink's other 4 albums".
Fans of the group have to agree that despite the greatness of fourth album Take Off Your Pants And Jacket, it was VERY familiar to previous album Enema of the State... almost identical in style. So in my more optimistic eye this change is good, it is still the greatness I expect from Blink BUT it is also totally fresh and new.
Now comes to the point of the post.
Recent anti-Resident Evil 4 claims have been pointed at the more "Action" aspect of the gameplay. What no puzzles? No dumb Zombies? Less scares more action?
Yes get over it. Resident Evil 4 has changed the series just as Blink 182's new self-titled album has changed Blink 182. You see just like Blink 182's previous 4 albums, Resident Evil has endured 5 almost identical games. Resident Evil, 2, 3, Code Veronica and Zero play almost identically too each other (bar some minor gameplay twist in some titles). The games were great, but even I, an avid Resident Evil fan, were starting to get a little bored. So Resident Evil 4 COULD be a successful change in the series, sure less scares maybe BUT just as much fun and the series can continue. Blink 182's latest album have kept the immature Punk Pop outfit alive into this new generation, Resident Evil was becoming stale. It needed a change.
Most of you I'm sure would agree with the above. But now I bring in my next set of examples. You see I've been defending Zelda: Wind Waker and Mario Sunshine to the grave lately against an endless supply of critics. And in this I'll also defend the game I don't enjoy too much, Metroid Prime. You see my defense of Wind Waker is thus, the combat system and the graphics have changed the style of game so much that the title rules. The aggressors to the title claim "The lack of epic storyline, length and interaction have damaged what Zelda used to be and therefore is not as good as the previous games".
Nonsense.
If I want interaction I'll play Majora's Mask, just as if I want pop-punk I'll listen to older Blink material. If I want an epic storyline then I'll play Ocarina of Time. If I want an addictive control system, an emphasis on collecting and a great comic adventure then I'll play Wind Waker. But why can't they include all three I hear you cry? Well Nintendo can make an epic adventure, they proved that with OOT. They can make a fantastic interaction filled adventure, they proved that with MM and they can adopt amazing graphics, controls and comedy as they did in WW. But Majoras Mask's interaction is VERY complicated and took nearly a year to implement entirely. Ocarina of Time took nearly 4 years to make mainly due to it's size, and the graphics and gameplay of Wind Waker took the majority of it's development time. Do you think Nintendo have deep enough pockets to waste their most talented development team on what could be a multi-million 7 year project? Of course not! So Nintendo opted to give us something slightly different instead, a different Zelda experience.
The same applies to Super Mario Sunshine. Yes you are TOTALLY right, the game is missing Koopa's etc... the game does include a back pack changing Mario's ideas. The recent Edge magazine asks to put the Italian back into his old games. That is what we want. But the thing is we ALREADY have Mario 64. Yes we all really wanted a Gamecube edition of Mario 64, but instead Nintendo gave us a new option. They gave us a new game, different to IMario 64 but somehow similar. We've already got a fantastic 3D platformer that is like Mario titles, now we wanted the similar level of fun but in a different way. And we got it.
Metroid Prime is my final example because I can't really be bothered to go into Double Dash (I'm sure you've got my point anyway). Yes a third person platformer would be fantastic but then there have been countless third person Metroid games. Isn't it about time things changed?
My point is thus, and I'm sure you got it, game series' evolve in order to survive. Moods and opinions change. Playing Ocarina Of Time with my Gamecube Bonus Disc was fun for five minutes. I soon realised it wasn't for today's market. Neither is any of the Resident Evil games we have got. The lack of epic story in Wind Waker maybe cleared up for next time, but the emphasis on light hearted fun with stella graphics and gameplay will still exist. Maybe Samus will appear more out of her suit in the next Metroid but the new first person adventure idea will continue to apply. Mario 128 may return to more familiar surroundings, but expect similar new ideas to the ones we got in Sunshine.
Resident Evil 4 is more action based because it has to be in order to survive and keep us interested. We are never really happy with what we get even if we didn't really know what we wanted in the first place. We are constantly evolving, games are constantly evolving. Goodbye Resident Evil, you were fun for a while but now I need a new experience. Gracefully give up your Survival Horror King status or change.
You choose.
I’m off to listen to Blink.
Dringo.
I can name 5 people in my small friendship circle who wanted a more, "cheery pop-punk album and not this good but depressive mature-punk album". My reply to them is simple: "If you want cheery Punk listen to Blink's other 4 albums".
Fans of the group have to agree that despite the greatness of fourth album Take Off Your Pants And Jacket, it was VERY familiar to previous album Enema of the State... almost identical in style. So in my more optimistic eye this change is good, it is still the greatness I expect from Blink BUT it is also totally fresh and new.
Now comes to the point of the post.
Recent anti-Resident Evil 4 claims have been pointed at the more "Action" aspect of the gameplay. What no puzzles? No dumb Zombies? Less scares more action?
Yes get over it. Resident Evil 4 has changed the series just as Blink 182's new self-titled album has changed Blink 182. You see just like Blink 182's previous 4 albums, Resident Evil has endured 5 almost identical games. Resident Evil, 2, 3, Code Veronica and Zero play almost identically too each other (bar some minor gameplay twist in some titles). The games were great, but even I, an avid Resident Evil fan, were starting to get a little bored. So Resident Evil 4 COULD be a successful change in the series, sure less scares maybe BUT just as much fun and the series can continue. Blink 182's latest album have kept the immature Punk Pop outfit alive into this new generation, Resident Evil was becoming stale. It needed a change.
Most of you I'm sure would agree with the above. But now I bring in my next set of examples. You see I've been defending Zelda: Wind Waker and Mario Sunshine to the grave lately against an endless supply of critics. And in this I'll also defend the game I don't enjoy too much, Metroid Prime. You see my defense of Wind Waker is thus, the combat system and the graphics have changed the style of game so much that the title rules. The aggressors to the title claim "The lack of epic storyline, length and interaction have damaged what Zelda used to be and therefore is not as good as the previous games".
Nonsense.
If I want interaction I'll play Majora's Mask, just as if I want pop-punk I'll listen to older Blink material. If I want an epic storyline then I'll play Ocarina of Time. If I want an addictive control system, an emphasis on collecting and a great comic adventure then I'll play Wind Waker. But why can't they include all three I hear you cry? Well Nintendo can make an epic adventure, they proved that with OOT. They can make a fantastic interaction filled adventure, they proved that with MM and they can adopt amazing graphics, controls and comedy as they did in WW. But Majoras Mask's interaction is VERY complicated and took nearly a year to implement entirely. Ocarina of Time took nearly 4 years to make mainly due to it's size, and the graphics and gameplay of Wind Waker took the majority of it's development time. Do you think Nintendo have deep enough pockets to waste their most talented development team on what could be a multi-million 7 year project? Of course not! So Nintendo opted to give us something slightly different instead, a different Zelda experience.
The same applies to Super Mario Sunshine. Yes you are TOTALLY right, the game is missing Koopa's etc... the game does include a back pack changing Mario's ideas. The recent Edge magazine asks to put the Italian back into his old games. That is what we want. But the thing is we ALREADY have Mario 64. Yes we all really wanted a Gamecube edition of Mario 64, but instead Nintendo gave us a new option. They gave us a new game, different to IMario 64 but somehow similar. We've already got a fantastic 3D platformer that is like Mario titles, now we wanted the similar level of fun but in a different way. And we got it.
Metroid Prime is my final example because I can't really be bothered to go into Double Dash (I'm sure you've got my point anyway). Yes a third person platformer would be fantastic but then there have been countless third person Metroid games. Isn't it about time things changed?
My point is thus, and I'm sure you got it, game series' evolve in order to survive. Moods and opinions change. Playing Ocarina Of Time with my Gamecube Bonus Disc was fun for five minutes. I soon realised it wasn't for today's market. Neither is any of the Resident Evil games we have got. The lack of epic story in Wind Waker maybe cleared up for next time, but the emphasis on light hearted fun with stella graphics and gameplay will still exist. Maybe Samus will appear more out of her suit in the next Metroid but the new first person adventure idea will continue to apply. Mario 128 may return to more familiar surroundings, but expect similar new ideas to the ones we got in Sunshine.
Resident Evil 4 is more action based because it has to be in order to survive and keep us interested. We are never really happy with what we get even if we didn't really know what we wanted in the first place. We are constantly evolving, games are constantly evolving. Goodbye Resident Evil, you were fun for a while but now I need a new experience. Gracefully give up your Survival Horror King status or change.
You choose.
I’m off to listen to Blink.
Dringo.
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You're kidding right?
The game seemed like it was designed for third person.
What's first person best for? Looking and aiming.
What's third person best for? Moving, dodging and jumping.
Other than the scanning and odd visor work, and the odd target you HAD to aim at, Metroid Prime was all about locking on and moving past enemy attacks while you blasted them.
Every boss would've worked better if you could see Samus and the attacks coming clearly, especially Ridley.
The only boss I'd keep in First Person would be the VERY last one (the actual Metroidy one you kill with the Phason).
Anysway, I've not got much time now.
I'll come back to this later! :-)
The game seemed like it was designed for third person.
What's first person best for? Looking and aiming.
What's third person best for? Moving, dodging and jumping.
Other than the scanning and odd visor work, and the odd target you HAD to aim at, Metroid Prime was all about locking on and moving past enemy attacks while you blasted them.
Every boss would've worked better if you could see Samus and the attacks coming clearly, especially Ridley.
The only boss I'd keep in First Person would be the VERY last one (the actual Metroidy one you kill with the Phason).
Anysway, I've not got much time now.
I'll come back to this later! :-)
I wouldn't trade Metroid Prime for anything, it's one of the best games I've ever played and easily tops my Cube list.
A third person, 3D Metroid just wouldn't work.
A third person, 3D Metroid just wouldn't work.
And see how you had to go back to Sunshine/Windwaker to skip my Metroid point? :-P
Admit it! Even though I was wrong to say that Metroid couldn't work in first person, I was right that a third person mode would be even better!
And should be done in Prime 2!
Go on! :-)
Admit it! Even though I was wrong to say that Metroid couldn't work in first person, I was right that a third person mode would be even better!
And should be done in Prime 2!
Go on! :-)
Well they've not gotten worse, if that's what you mean, apart from perhaps the level design....
But once Nintendo meant more than JUST managing to keep up with old, last generation classics.
If that's putting in the effort then Nintendo HAVE lost it.
But it's not.
Instead they've cut devellopment time down to a quarter, spending plenty of time making a fantastic base, and then running out of time to make a mind blowing game around, leaving it just "good".
You'll be repeating all this when the next wave of Nintendo titles come, the sequels to Pikmin, Mario and Zelda, and people start asking "what's new?". And you're going to tell them that although the basics stayed the same, THIS time round, Nintendo were able to concentrate on making a REALLY good adventure, rather than the make-do's the rushed up to meet deadlines with.
And you WILL say SOMETHING along those lines.
Almost certainly! ;-)
But once Nintendo meant more than JUST managing to keep up with old, last generation classics.
If that's putting in the effort then Nintendo HAVE lost it.
But it's not.
Instead they've cut devellopment time down to a quarter, spending plenty of time making a fantastic base, and then running out of time to make a mind blowing game around, leaving it just "good".
You'll be repeating all this when the next wave of Nintendo titles come, the sequels to Pikmin, Mario and Zelda, and people start asking "what's new?". And you're going to tell them that although the basics stayed the same, THIS time round, Nintendo were able to concentrate on making a REALLY good adventure, rather than the make-do's the rushed up to meet deadlines with.
And you WILL say SOMETHING along those lines.
Almost certainly! ;-)
It is obvious Nintendo are trying just as hard because the games are just as good.
It's a good thing then that Miyamoto isn't really a games designer anymore isn't it. I mean sure he's making the next Pikmin and the last... but Luigi's Mansion only had him involved a little and I can't remember the guys name but there is a new person in charge of Zelda now... since Majora's Mask in fact.
Miyamoto simply looks at things... messes with them... dashes off to next project... checks things are okay. Flies over to retro studios, checks things are okay... does a few press interviews... meets in Europe with a few designers... goes back to Japan... more interviews... checks on projects etc...
He used to design a game... then another.... then another.
It's a good thing then that Miyamoto isn't really a games designer anymore isn't it. I mean sure he's making the next Pikmin and the last... but Luigi's Mansion only had him involved a little and I can't remember the guys name but there is a new person in charge of Zelda now... since Majora's Mask in fact.
Miyamoto simply looks at things... messes with them... dashes off to next project... checks things are okay. Flies over to retro studios, checks things are okay... does a few press interviews... meets in Europe with a few designers... goes back to Japan... more interviews... checks on projects etc...
He used to design a game... then another.... then another.
Not really, because I still enjoy games edit:like them from the last generation.
Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64 surprised me because I expected them to be really unplayable by todays standards. Banjo Kazooie was slightly sluggish, but Mario 64 was almost as good as Sunshine.
Just slower acceleration, harder wall jumps and "turning" jumps, but other than that, jsut as good.
And it felt a bit purer without Fludd.
Not that change was a bad thing, just that THIS change watered it down a little.
We also knew that something like this would happen because Nintendo have been going on about shorter games for AGES now.
Miyamoto admitting that he get's excited by new ideas and then bored with them and on to the next one before they're fully finished.
Basically, Nintendo have put ALL of their efforts into game concepts, and gone with relatively make-do level design.
Hopefully, now the concepts are in place, they can concentrate on the actual game in the next set of games.
We both agree that Sunshine and Windwakers strengths lay in the controls rather than the adventure. The only difference is that you think that the controls made it ALL worthwhile, while I think that the controls didn't hold it up on their own.
I'm right in that Nintendo don't put a FRACTION of the effort they put into N64 games, but perhaps you're right in that most people just don't appreciate epic games, and that extra effort would be wasted.
Perhaps.
But there is no doubt on one thing.
A third person mode in Metroid Prime would've made any section that required manauvering 10 times better and not taken away from the rest of it! Metroid Prime 2 for third person! :-P
Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64 surprised me because I expected them to be really unplayable by todays standards. Banjo Kazooie was slightly sluggish, but Mario 64 was almost as good as Sunshine.
Just slower acceleration, harder wall jumps and "turning" jumps, but other than that, jsut as good.
And it felt a bit purer without Fludd.
Not that change was a bad thing, just that THIS change watered it down a little.
We also knew that something like this would happen because Nintendo have been going on about shorter games for AGES now.
Miyamoto admitting that he get's excited by new ideas and then bored with them and on to the next one before they're fully finished.
Basically, Nintendo have put ALL of their efforts into game concepts, and gone with relatively make-do level design.
Hopefully, now the concepts are in place, they can concentrate on the actual game in the next set of games.
We both agree that Sunshine and Windwakers strengths lay in the controls rather than the adventure. The only difference is that you think that the controls made it ALL worthwhile, while I think that the controls didn't hold it up on their own.
I'm right in that Nintendo don't put a FRACTION of the effort they put into N64 games, but perhaps you're right in that most people just don't appreciate epic games, and that extra effort would be wasted.
Perhaps.
But there is no doubt on one thing.
A third person mode in Metroid Prime would've made any section that required manauvering 10 times better and not taken away from the rest of it! Metroid Prime 2 for third person! :-P
Cyclone wrote:
> And MS and WW are excellent games. I defy anyone to play them next to
> the previous titles and not think they are better, because they quite
> clearly are. They might not of had the same impact, but they
> are infinitely better.
>
> Dissapointing? Maybe so, but not half-baked, except a missing dungeon
> in Zelda, by any means. I played OOT the other day. Sure, it's epic
> and genius, but it's also clunky, ugly and slow in compariosn to the
> slick WW -and WW is epic - what else is the Tower of the Gods,
> Forsaken Fortress, Hyrule Castle and it's outstanding fights, or
> Dragon Roost?!
I have a supporter.
My theory Stafio is that perhaps what you are into this generation is pretty different to last.
> And MS and WW are excellent games. I defy anyone to play them next to
> the previous titles and not think they are better, because they quite
> clearly are. They might not of had the same impact, but they
> are infinitely better.
>
> Dissapointing? Maybe so, but not half-baked, except a missing dungeon
> in Zelda, by any means. I played OOT the other day. Sure, it's epic
> and genius, but it's also clunky, ugly and slow in compariosn to the
> slick WW -and WW is epic - what else is the Tower of the Gods,
> Forsaken Fortress, Hyrule Castle and it's outstanding fights, or
> Dragon Roost?!
I have a supporter.
My theory Stafio is that perhaps what you are into this generation is pretty different to last.
Cyclone wrote:
> And MS and WW are excellent games. I defy anyone to play them next to
> the previous titles and not think they are better, because they quite
> clearly are. They might not of had the same impact, but they
> are infinitely better.
Well you see, I DID that.
I've done it with Mario 64 Vs Sunshine and Zelda OOT Vs Windwaker.
Both of the Gamecube games had smoother control and nicer graphics, and in Sunshine's case, a bit more character in the levels.
Other than that, the classics topped them in every way.
Not in "how good they were for the time", a straight comparison.
I reply to Dringo's "Get Everything From a Game", Mario Sunshine surprised me with those blue coins. Half of them were fun to find. The rest required the tedium of just spraying everything little square inch of level and hoping for the best.
Zelda?
I'd never got EVERYTHING from a Zelda game (bar Master Quest - not even in OOT the first time round) but I atleast used to try look for some of it.W indwaker, for me, ended when I beat Gannondorf. I started a second quest but got bored after the second dungeon.
This is from someone who completely Jet Force Gemini fully (all hostages, all missing ship parts), and spent 50 hours getting every Gold Banana on Dk64 (when I finally decided that it wasn't worth anything after all! :-D) and spent ages getting EVERY last Cheat on Goldeneye (and only gave up on 3 of Perfect Dark's).
So maybe we all have our different cups of tea, but I've yet to see a Gamecube Nintendo game that had a poor starting idea or one that finished the idae it started with properly.
> And MS and WW are excellent games. I defy anyone to play them next to
> the previous titles and not think they are better, because they quite
> clearly are. They might not of had the same impact, but they
> are infinitely better.
Well you see, I DID that.
I've done it with Mario 64 Vs Sunshine and Zelda OOT Vs Windwaker.
Both of the Gamecube games had smoother control and nicer graphics, and in Sunshine's case, a bit more character in the levels.
Other than that, the classics topped them in every way.
Not in "how good they were for the time", a straight comparison.
I reply to Dringo's "Get Everything From a Game", Mario Sunshine surprised me with those blue coins. Half of them were fun to find. The rest required the tedium of just spraying everything little square inch of level and hoping for the best.
Zelda?
I'd never got EVERYTHING from a Zelda game (bar Master Quest - not even in OOT the first time round) but I atleast used to try look for some of it.W indwaker, for me, ended when I beat Gannondorf. I started a second quest but got bored after the second dungeon.
This is from someone who completely Jet Force Gemini fully (all hostages, all missing ship parts), and spent 50 hours getting every Gold Banana on Dk64 (when I finally decided that it wasn't worth anything after all! :-D) and spent ages getting EVERY last Cheat on Goldeneye (and only gave up on 3 of Perfect Dark's).
So maybe we all have our different cups of tea, but I've yet to see a Gamecube Nintendo game that had a poor starting idea or one that finished the idae it started with properly.
I've been recently playing through Majora's Mask after Wind Waker and that's what really made me click back to reality. No amount of polish, no amount of refinements, not even graphical bliss, can surpass what is an epic adventure with challenge, genius puzzles and such an atmosphere never seen in any Zelda title. I don't think even the two extra dungeons that were excluded could help it.
Mario Sunshine's none-FLUDD sections highlighted the fact how inferior it is compared Mario 64, or perhaps what it could have been.
Mario Sunshine's none-FLUDD sections highlighted the fact how inferior it is compared Mario 64, or perhaps what it could have been.
Blink 182 aren't genius, they just play to certain nerves
And MS and WW are excellent games. I defy anyone to play them next to the previous titles and not think they are better, because they quite clearly are. They might not of had the same impact, but they are infinitely better.
Dissapointing? Maybe so, but not half-baked, except a missing dungeon in Zelda, by any means. I played OOT the other day. Sure, it's epic and genius, but it's also clunky, ugly and slow in compariosn to the slick WW -and WW is epic - what else is the Tower of the Gods, Forsaken Fortress, Hyrule Castle and it's outstanding fights, or Dragon Roost?!
And MS and WW are excellent games. I defy anyone to play them next to the previous titles and not think they are better, because they quite clearly are. They might not of had the same impact, but they are infinitely better.
Dissapointing? Maybe so, but not half-baked, except a missing dungeon in Zelda, by any means. I played OOT the other day. Sure, it's epic and genius, but it's also clunky, ugly and slow in compariosn to the slick WW -and WW is epic - what else is the Tower of the Gods, Forsaken Fortress, Hyrule Castle and it's outstanding fights, or Dragon Roost?!
Page: