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Ok, this is not directed at any particular person here (except for the one that complained about C4 shouldn’t have shown this programme and then said they didn’t watch it), this is more of an open rant. Feel free to print it off and distribute to anybody screaming about Brasseye, League of Gentlemen or any other television programme, book or work of art that they find “offensive”.
There are two quotes applicable here:
“When did you ever hear anyone say – This work should be banned because I might be exposed to it and it might be dangerous to me”. Francis Bacon, Artist.
“I may not agree with what you say sir, but I will defend to my death your right to say it” Abraham Lincoln.
You, as an individual, have the ultimate control over things that you find offensive. You can not subject yourself to the offending subject matter.
Turn off the television, stop reading that book, don’t look at that object of art.
You have been blessed with free will and independent intelligence. I beg you, please use it, don’t resort to lynch mob tactics and chasing those you disagree with through the village waving flaming torches.
Ok?
The furore of the previous few days over a simple television show has made me realise just how utterly thoughtless and moronic 80% of this population are.
All it takes is one newspaper to whip something up and the herd start lowing before stampeding. The events of the past few days have been like watching the Pamplona Bull run with crowds hurtling through the street, out of control.
Before this fuss, Chris Morris has been criticised by people, and cleared by the ITC over the last series of Brasseye.
The media was waiting for him, they know his style and the targets he attacks. Morris makes a complete mockery of the news media, and this group huddled in their ivory towers refuse to accept any kind of criticism at all, they are above it all.
So when Morris starts to poke around, they scream and cry “Devil!” so that people don’t bother watching the programme to see the actual content. In a previous series of Brasseye, Morris conned the editor of the Daily Sport, who subsequently printed his mobile and home phone number in revenge for being made to look foolish on television, they encouraged people to phone and harass Morris. This is far more abhorrent than any programme about peodophiles.
And it wasn’t even about that, it was about the way the mass media treat this subject.
Chris Morris is an extremely intelligent man, very very witty and very very clever.
He is able to make something look like one thing, whilst it is actually something completely different. And, at the risk of offending (most ironic considering the subject matter), most people do not understand and take offence at having their lack of intelligence highlighted.
Nobody likes to be made to look stupid, or admit that they didn’t understand something, which is how Morris gets away with what he does.
But you cannot censor and vilify somebody because they present a situation or programme that challenges what you may find acceptable.
This is the point of art, to provoke and inspire a response in people. It may be joy, sadness or even anger, but a reaction other than indifference has to be applauded in an age where apathy reigns supreme.
Robert Mapplethorpe, a US artist went on trial in 1990 for displaying photographs of underage children. They were not pornography, but some felt them obscene and tasteless. Much like the Brasseye storm.
After lengthy trial procedures, Mapplethorpe won and a victory claimed for artistic expression.
Morris does not force you to watch his programmes, it is out of your own free will that you do so.
And by subjecting yourself to his mindset, you may be presented with a view that offends or upsets you.
But that only means the problem lays with you. Nobody seriously believes that C4 would broadcast a pro-child sex programme, and indeed it wasn’t.
But in an age where soap operas pull in up to 18 million viewers daily, a programme that doesn’t attempt to install moral and social values through entertainment will be seen as a threat. TV isn’t supposed to challenge and make you think, it’s there to keep you quiet and pacified between sleep and work.
Morris doesn’t do that, and it upsets you.
I say good. TV is one of the most powerful mediums, and should be used as a tool of thought instead of a wet-nurse for oversized infants that are unable to exercise even the simplest of self-regulatory acts: Turning the damn thing off.
Don’t complain about Brasseye for shocking you, complain about all the other shows for not shaking you up.
For one brief instant, you were engaged and passionate enough to reply. When was the last time you did something like that?
So, I personally thank Chris Morris and C4 for pushing the envelope and allowing art to be exposed to an otherwise complacent nation.
There are two quotes applicable here:
“When did you ever hear anyone say – This work should be banned because I might be exposed to it and it might be dangerous to me”. Francis Bacon, Artist.
“I may not agree with what you say sir, but I will defend to my death your right to say it” Abraham Lincoln.
You, as an individual, have the ultimate control over things that you find offensive. You can not subject yourself to the offending subject matter.
Turn off the television, stop reading that book, don’t look at that object of art.
You have been blessed with free will and independent intelligence. I beg you, please use it, don’t resort to lynch mob tactics and chasing those you disagree with through the village waving flaming torches.
Ok?
The furore of the previous few days over a simple television show has made me realise just how utterly thoughtless and moronic 80% of this population are.
All it takes is one newspaper to whip something up and the herd start lowing before stampeding. The events of the past few days have been like watching the Pamplona Bull run with crowds hurtling through the street, out of control.
Before this fuss, Chris Morris has been criticised by people, and cleared by the ITC over the last series of Brasseye.
The media was waiting for him, they know his style and the targets he attacks. Morris makes a complete mockery of the news media, and this group huddled in their ivory towers refuse to accept any kind of criticism at all, they are above it all.
So when Morris starts to poke around, they scream and cry “Devil!” so that people don’t bother watching the programme to see the actual content. In a previous series of Brasseye, Morris conned the editor of the Daily Sport, who subsequently printed his mobile and home phone number in revenge for being made to look foolish on television, they encouraged people to phone and harass Morris. This is far more abhorrent than any programme about peodophiles.
And it wasn’t even about that, it was about the way the mass media treat this subject.
Chris Morris is an extremely intelligent man, very very witty and very very clever.
He is able to make something look like one thing, whilst it is actually something completely different. And, at the risk of offending (most ironic considering the subject matter), most people do not understand and take offence at having their lack of intelligence highlighted.
Nobody likes to be made to look stupid, or admit that they didn’t understand something, which is how Morris gets away with what he does.
But you cannot censor and vilify somebody because they present a situation or programme that challenges what you may find acceptable.
This is the point of art, to provoke and inspire a response in people. It may be joy, sadness or even anger, but a reaction other than indifference has to be applauded in an age where apathy reigns supreme.
Robert Mapplethorpe, a US artist went on trial in 1990 for displaying photographs of underage children. They were not pornography, but some felt them obscene and tasteless. Much like the Brasseye storm.
After lengthy trial procedures, Mapplethorpe won and a victory claimed for artistic expression.
Morris does not force you to watch his programmes, it is out of your own free will that you do so.
And by subjecting yourself to his mindset, you may be presented with a view that offends or upsets you.
But that only means the problem lays with you. Nobody seriously believes that C4 would broadcast a pro-child sex programme, and indeed it wasn’t.
But in an age where soap operas pull in up to 18 million viewers daily, a programme that doesn’t attempt to install moral and social values through entertainment will be seen as a threat. TV isn’t supposed to challenge and make you think, it’s there to keep you quiet and pacified between sleep and work.
Morris doesn’t do that, and it upsets you.
I say good. TV is one of the most powerful mediums, and should be used as a tool of thought instead of a wet-nurse for oversized infants that are unable to exercise even the simplest of self-regulatory acts: Turning the damn thing off.
Don’t complain about Brasseye for shocking you, complain about all the other shows for not shaking you up.
For one brief instant, you were engaged and passionate enough to reply. When was the last time you did something like that?
So, I personally thank Chris Morris and C4 for pushing the envelope and allowing art to be exposed to an otherwise complacent nation.
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It's a shame I was on holiday when this was aired, as I'd love to have been able to hop in here and join the debate, but it seems I've missed all the fun.
Personally, I don't think people should take comedy show so seriously. If it puts across important points, all well and good, but it made me and thousands of others laugh, and that's what counts.
If people are unhappy about stuff like this, there's a great regulator they can use.
The off switch.
Personally, I don't think people should take comedy show so seriously. If it puts across important points, all well and good, but it made me and thousands of others laugh, and that's what counts.
If people are unhappy about stuff like this, there's a great regulator they can use.
The off switch.
I have watched quite a lot of brass eye and the day today. I was on holiday when Brass eye was broadcasted and read about it in the mail and express the following day and have watched the programme since. These two papers are supposedly very similar but the content of them couldn't be more different. The mail was so over the top it had absolutely nothing good to say about the programme and many of its journalists were seriously misinformed it had about 20 pages on the programe. I completely condemn child abuse but chris morris brought an akward issue out and made the public discuss it whichg was one of the aims of the programme. The express although it condemned the satire was willing to listen to the argument and published some articles which addressed some of the positives of the show in a more mature line of journalism. Papers such as the mail proved Morris' point about extreme media hysteria on the topic but a previous lack of willingness to face it with there over the top and hystrical protests. The bottom line is that Morris created a cleve piece of satire which was after the watershed and the public had a choice whether to watch as a result morris should not be condemned but rather praised for highlighting a serious issue that needed addressing even if his methods were open to questioning.
I think that it is important that people take heed of the last couple of posts here by Goatboy and Reaper, there are some important things that are worth considering in both posts.
Looking back over the last couple of weeks, particularly on this forum there have been a lot of debates on subjects that society may consider taboo; drugs, drinking, euthanasia, racism, pornography and many others. These subjects inspire people to write well crafted and insightful posts about topics that effect society today and are well received because of that.
This has not been the case for Chris Morris and his chosen subject topic, paedophilia. This subject has been explored before on television, documenting real life situations within this country, along with a host of other documentaries that delve into the less appreciated ills of our cosy Britain. Yet because of some bad journalism the reaction has been way off target. The reaction to a programme specifically designed to cause people to think about what they are watching, to highlight the way that the media and people react when they don't pay attention to what has been said, only what they thought they heard.
Nobody is arguing that the subject isn't sick, C4 and a overwhelming majority of the population would whole heatedly agree with that. But that is NOT the point of Brasseye, or any of the other shows that involve Chris Morris and/or his style of getting things done. There are plenty of other comedians that have a similar and sometimes more aggressive style than Morris, Trigger Happy TV does the same thing, makes you laugh at something because of the situation, the human reaction.
As I have stated, the subject has been covered in a more graphic and disturbing manner by serious hard hitting programmes. Nobody reacts to these in the same way, because the media frenzy wasn't in effect around these programmes.
It cannot be stressed enough that ill informed comments on this or any topic (not just on the SR forums either) can and will be treated with the contempt it deserves by those who understand it's content. I wouldn't enter into a debate over the finer points of technical specifications for console, simply because I don't know enough about it to contribute to the discussion. Joking around in less serious threads is a laugh and everyone does it, but enraging people by bad mouthing a subject they care about accomplishes nothing. Look at the problems caused by irritating posts made by a minority of members concerning Nintendo and Sony. Gaming is something we all care about, otherwise we'd all be somewhere else.
Considering that all of this can be avoided by stating 'I don't like the style of Chris Morris and therefore don't watch it', which is perfectly acceptable, a lot of this would have been avoided.
Looking back over the last couple of weeks, particularly on this forum there have been a lot of debates on subjects that society may consider taboo; drugs, drinking, euthanasia, racism, pornography and many others. These subjects inspire people to write well crafted and insightful posts about topics that effect society today and are well received because of that.
This has not been the case for Chris Morris and his chosen subject topic, paedophilia. This subject has been explored before on television, documenting real life situations within this country, along with a host of other documentaries that delve into the less appreciated ills of our cosy Britain. Yet because of some bad journalism the reaction has been way off target. The reaction to a programme specifically designed to cause people to think about what they are watching, to highlight the way that the media and people react when they don't pay attention to what has been said, only what they thought they heard.
Nobody is arguing that the subject isn't sick, C4 and a overwhelming majority of the population would whole heatedly agree with that. But that is NOT the point of Brasseye, or any of the other shows that involve Chris Morris and/or his style of getting things done. There are plenty of other comedians that have a similar and sometimes more aggressive style than Morris, Trigger Happy TV does the same thing, makes you laugh at something because of the situation, the human reaction.
As I have stated, the subject has been covered in a more graphic and disturbing manner by serious hard hitting programmes. Nobody reacts to these in the same way, because the media frenzy wasn't in effect around these programmes.
It cannot be stressed enough that ill informed comments on this or any topic (not just on the SR forums either) can and will be treated with the contempt it deserves by those who understand it's content. I wouldn't enter into a debate over the finer points of technical specifications for console, simply because I don't know enough about it to contribute to the discussion. Joking around in less serious threads is a laugh and everyone does it, but enraging people by bad mouthing a subject they care about accomplishes nothing. Look at the problems caused by irritating posts made by a minority of members concerning Nintendo and Sony. Gaming is something we all care about, otherwise we'd all be somewhere else.
Considering that all of this can be avoided by stating 'I don't like the style of Chris Morris and therefore don't watch it', which is perfectly acceptable, a lot of this would have been avoided.
And that response Reaper, means you stand head and shoulders above 90% of the people talking about this topic.
Thank you for an intelligent, calm and well laid out opinion.
Does anyone else understand what Reaper is saying?
"I didnt see it so I cannot talk specifically about this show", but then explains his feelings in general.
THIS is how you talk about something you didn't see. Don't slam that show. By all means, express your feelings and opinions on the subject matter, but do not bring a mention of Brasseye into it because you did not watch it.
Thanks to Reaper, Your Honour, Grix, Snuggly, Hooplah, Myst1que and some others that may not have agreed with what I was saying, but they disagreed without shouting or screaming like ill-informed media puppets.
Thank you for an intelligent, calm and well laid out opinion.
Does anyone else understand what Reaper is saying?
"I didnt see it so I cannot talk specifically about this show", but then explains his feelings in general.
THIS is how you talk about something you didn't see. Don't slam that show. By all means, express your feelings and opinions on the subject matter, but do not bring a mention of Brasseye into it because you did not watch it.
Thanks to Reaper, Your Honour, Grix, Snuggly, Hooplah, Myst1que and some others that may not have agreed with what I was saying, but they disagreed without shouting or screaming like ill-informed media puppets.
I never saw this program when it was first aired, so I don't feel I can specifically on this prgram from an unbiased point of view, but I've heard a lot about it in the media over the last week. I've always supported free speech, and I think that Morris was brave to go ahead with the show, simply because of the massive role that the media plays in swaying public opinion.
As you've said, many people have simply latched on to stories run by the tabloids and built their impressions through that, which is of course going to make their views biased depending on how the program was described. These are the people who cannot justify their comments on the subject, and areblindly reading and accepting what the papers say. Those who actually watched the program through may well have felt the same way about it, but they have at least formed their own opinions.
It's true, if a program is covering a subject that people may find offensive, then it will get many complaints about the content. These people are well within their rights to be offended by it, they may have a strong personal opinion on the subject and be adverse to productions based around it - especially comedy. However, this is not an excuse for them to proceed to complain about the program because it's not in their personal taste - if they know that they wont like it, then they should simply turn off the TV. Those who can accept the subject matter and read in to it themselves, rather than be led by the media, should be allowed to do so.
I congratulate Morris and C4 for going ahead with this, as it is a taboo subject for many, but having read so much about it before, I'd like to know watch it for myself, as I don't believe that the tabloid write ups are sufficiant for me to base an good opinion around for this particular program.
As you've said, many people have simply latched on to stories run by the tabloids and built their impressions through that, which is of course going to make their views biased depending on how the program was described. These are the people who cannot justify their comments on the subject, and areblindly reading and accepting what the papers say. Those who actually watched the program through may well have felt the same way about it, but they have at least formed their own opinions.
It's true, if a program is covering a subject that people may find offensive, then it will get many complaints about the content. These people are well within their rights to be offended by it, they may have a strong personal opinion on the subject and be adverse to productions based around it - especially comedy. However, this is not an excuse for them to proceed to complain about the program because it's not in their personal taste - if they know that they wont like it, then they should simply turn off the TV. Those who can accept the subject matter and read in to it themselves, rather than be led by the media, should be allowed to do so.
I congratulate Morris and C4 for going ahead with this, as it is a taboo subject for many, but having read so much about it before, I'd like to know watch it for myself, as I don't believe that the tabloid write ups are sufficiant for me to base an good opinion around for this particular program.
Whoooo Style! wrote:
> The whole subject is a sick and disgusting one. WHy would I want to
> watch some cr@p about pedophilia unless I had some kind of sick
> fixation with the subject.
And that is my point.
You didn't even watch the show.
You have no idea what it was about, and yet you feel you can attack it and myself for watching it.
This is exactly the kind of nonsense that has allowed this hysteria to continue for almost a week now.
Go to the DVD forum and read the comments mate, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
There is a famous qoute that you may take and learn that goes "Better to keep silent and let them think you foolish than open your mouth and remove all doubt"
I have been willing to enter in adult and intelligent debate over this topic, but time and time again I have been met with childish reactions and knee-jerk provocation.
My only and last advice to you is to borrow a tape of this programme and watch it, because until you do, you are not allowed to make comment on it.
Simply because you have no basis on which to argue.
So, with that in mind, keep your childish opinions and comments to yourself, it is exactly your sort of reaction and attitude that proves why we will never be treated like adults by broadcasters, legislators or governing bodies.
Because while there are still people like you prepared to comment on a subject that they know nothing about, the minority will be heard the most because you people are the only ones screaming.
> The whole subject is a sick and disgusting one. WHy would I want to
> watch some cr@p about pedophilia unless I had some kind of sick
> fixation with the subject.
And that is my point.
You didn't even watch the show.
You have no idea what it was about, and yet you feel you can attack it and myself for watching it.
This is exactly the kind of nonsense that has allowed this hysteria to continue for almost a week now.
Go to the DVD forum and read the comments mate, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
There is a famous qoute that you may take and learn that goes "Better to keep silent and let them think you foolish than open your mouth and remove all doubt"
I have been willing to enter in adult and intelligent debate over this topic, but time and time again I have been met with childish reactions and knee-jerk provocation.
My only and last advice to you is to borrow a tape of this programme and watch it, because until you do, you are not allowed to make comment on it.
Simply because you have no basis on which to argue.
So, with that in mind, keep your childish opinions and comments to yourself, it is exactly your sort of reaction and attitude that proves why we will never be treated like adults by broadcasters, legislators or governing bodies.
Because while there are still people like you prepared to comment on a subject that they know nothing about, the minority will be heard the most because you people are the only ones screaming.
The whole subject is a sick and disgusting one. WHy would I want to watch some cr@p about pedophilia unless I had some kind of sick fixation with the subject.
Here:
Channel 4: 020 7306 8333
ITC: 020 7255 3000
Phone them with your complaints, see how much they care.
I DARE you to phone them instead of bleating in here.
This way you will have to talk to someone and explain why you were upset.
But you won't, because that takes courage and sincerity.
Channel 4: 020 7306 8333
ITC: 020 7255 3000
Phone them with your complaints, see how much they care.
I DARE you to phone them instead of bleating in here.
This way you will have to talk to someone and explain why you were upset.
But you won't, because that takes courage and sincerity.
Whoooo Style! wrote:
> I really hate to think what kind of sick twisted sense of humor you
> have, you find pedophilia funny?
I think its sick. it's a serious
> problem that needs a serious answer not someone to take the pi$s.
> Your right. I didn't watch it all. i have better things to do than
> watch something as sick and disgusting as that.
"Sick and Disgusting"
You can't do it can you? You can't tell me what upset you because, as you admit, you didnt even watch it.
So, do us all a favour, shut up about this show until you know what you're talking about and can offer more than a mini-tabloid vomit in my face.
> I really hate to think what kind of sick twisted sense of humor you
> have, you find pedophilia funny?
I think its sick. it's a serious
> problem that needs a serious answer not someone to take the pi$s.
> Your right. I didn't watch it all. i have better things to do than
> watch something as sick and disgusting as that.
"Sick and Disgusting"
You can't do it can you? You can't tell me what upset you because, as you admit, you didnt even watch it.
So, do us all a favour, shut up about this show until you know what you're talking about and can offer more than a mini-tabloid vomit in my face.
I watched it and thought some of it was quite funny. I thought some of it wasn't funny. I was never "traumatised" or "sickened" or anything else.
I was entertained, that's what the telly is for.
If you're entertained by Ready Steady Cook, or some fat bird that now presents You've Been Framed, then go and watch that.
Having said that, I think You've Been Framed is sick and twisted. People get enjoyment from watching other peoples misfortunes! How can you laugh when someone falls down the stairs? You sick twisted freak!
ITV should have it's broadcasting licence taken away fro screening this filth! AND it's before the watershed!
I was entertained, that's what the telly is for.
If you're entertained by Ready Steady Cook, or some fat bird that now presents You've Been Framed, then go and watch that.
Having said that, I think You've Been Framed is sick and twisted. People get enjoyment from watching other peoples misfortunes! How can you laugh when someone falls down the stairs? You sick twisted freak!
ITV should have it's broadcasting licence taken away fro screening this filth! AND it's before the watershed!
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