Viewing Thread:
"communism"

was marx right? will the proletariat really rise up and overthrow the bourgoisie or did he get it horribly wrong? discuss.

was marx right? will the proletariat really rise up and overthrow the bourgoisie or did he get it horribly wrong? discuss.

What the hell?

Marx was wrong. The Communism model ignores individual qualities in certain people - greed, corruption etc. Thus, it was flawed from the beginning.

What about if he only got half of it right, and an endless cycle will actually form, whereby at the communist stage, a monarch will arise and the whole class struggle will begin again.

ie.

Monarchy->Capitalism->communism v
^--------------------------------

rinse and repeat

Well for one thing, revolution in a Communist country isn't very likely. Also, why would it revert back to a monarchy? Any royal "bloodlines" would be gone. More likely a democratic type government if even.

yes, but think about how monarchies came about. In the beginning, all men were essentially equal, as they would be in the communist phase. However, one person, or group of people became rulers and initiated the monarchical system. Therefore, what is to say this wouln't happen in the communist society? Obviously, a revolution would never have happened in the USSR, but it could be argued that it wasnt a truly communist society, as the vital capitalist stage was missed out by lenin.

Yes, but just including the capitalist phase doesn't mean you'll have a revolution. Also, people who for so long have been "equal" would have a hard time adapting to a monarchy system would they not? They'd probably be indoctrinated with so many communist beliefs that they'd revolt again shortly after the creation of a monarchy. I'm not saying it is impossible, just unlikely. Out of interest, what are your views on Communism? Would you join it if given the chance?

I'm thinking of the French revolution here, as after there was the initial revolt, within a few years the revolutonary spirit had kind of dried up, leaving a space open for Napoeleon to come to power as emperor, so in effect a type of monarchy. Different situation i know, but i'm just drawing a similiarity to show the likely course of events. In relation to your point on "after so long", because i feel that the communist stage would be far shorter than both the capitalist and monarchical stage, possibly only lasting a decade if it wre a true communist society and not one like the USSR, which under Stalinist rule was, to all intents and purposes really a dictatorship. I personally, used to have resonably strong Communist beliefs, but having studied the Russian revolution in depth in history recently, i realise that Marx's view really missed out vital points. He had the method of getting to communism very well planned out, butonce it was at the stage, i feel he was unsure of what exactly would happen, and i fail to see how such a utopian society can be created, as surely it goes against the competitive laws of nature, which ironically, is exactly where Marx drew his ideas from, along with remnants of the free-thinking ideals of the French revolution itself. Surely social darwinism undermines itself is everyone truly is treated as equal?

Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. Communism is after all sound in theory but poor in practise. I disagree with many of Darwins theories (and consequently don't bother with) so I can't really contribute much to that side of things.

I've got three and a half hours of sociology tomorrow afternoon, I don't need it here as well.

It's a big pile of ass, but it's easy.