The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
I think not...
I know this is meant to be why the Gamecube will win the console wars, but I would like to clear the compertion between the PS2 and the gamecube up. Why? I hear you all cry! One, Grix hasn’t done it yet :) and well, I think I owe it to Nintendo, and even Shigsy himself! After all, this is a big war between them both. Although both companies claim not to be going into wars with one another, there are still loads of gamers around the world that wish to continue this rivalry This isn’t a console wars post, just for people who think that PS2 is BETTER than Gamecube. First of all, it's not. I know, that sounded bias and unreasonable, but I have sufficient evidence to prove your ass wrong. I know that people who own a PS2 people are saying, the same old things. For example, it has DVD capability, it LOOKS cool (that’s an opinion), it has more games, etc. etc. etc. People even say that it's better because it's on a non-proprietary format. And no, giving it back to me and calling this trash will not work. It’ll only put you in denial. Also, the Gamecube is also referred to as the “NGC”. So, in no particular order, here's otherwise...
Now we've all heard one side of the story (or some of it) we will now discuss what Gamecube has. Some say that the NGC looks like a Fisher-Price purse, but a reasonable gamer knows that it's the games & what the system can do with those games that counts. The NGC has a graphics processor designed by ArtX, a subsidiary of ATI. PC gamers know that ATI is a respected company that makes great graphics accelerators. What does PS2 have, an "Emotion Engine". While, the name is somewhat catchy to the developers, what it can do is much more important. It can push 75 million polygons per second. That would seem to be a very impressive number. Unfortunately, Sony (like Microsoft) specifies polygon performance differently than Nintendo. 75 Million polys/sec specifies the number of RAW polygons. Raw meaning the most basic, wire frame, lacking real game effects, physics, colour, controller input, etc. Fortunately, from reliable sources, we have learned that current PS2 games, such as SSX or Madden 2001 only use 3-5 million per second (realistic). Of course, upcoming games such as FFX will do much better. Gamecube on the other hand, uses a "Flipper" chip designed by previously mentioned ArtX. This graphics processor can push 6-12 million polygons per second. This may seem small, but this is the actual performance number with all the effects on (lighting, shading, texture, etc.), with controller input, real-time physics, etc. So in that respect, and only in that respect, Gamecube is better.
Some Nintendo enemies (and loyalists alike) complain that the lack of DVD support is unacceptable. To challenge this, I present the company known in Japan as Matsushita. Better known in the US by the Panasonic brand name, this company is responsible for producing the mini-DVDs that will be the storage medium for the NGC. What Matsushita will do is manufacture a DVD player that plays Gamecube games. Note that it would be a DVD player that plays games and not a dedicated gaming machine like Gamecube. In such a comparison, the NGC and PS2 have no distinct advantage over each other.
And I find it strange that such an overhyped console would not have four-player capability. Well, the PS2 does but you still have to buy a MultiTap. Nintendo has been a company that has embraced and reaped the benefits of 4x multiplayer with huge sales of such games as Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mario Party (1,2, &3), & most importantly, Golden Eye and Perfect Dark.
It's not like no one can afford a MultiTap or anything but dishing out £20+ for 4x capability is just one more disadvantage of the PS2.
There have been quite number of disputes involving the controller. This is a particularly confusing subject to write about because it is very opinionated to the tastes of the individual. Well, this is my correct opinion and if you think this is trash, than you obviously haven’t seen the NGC controller. I think that the PS2 controller is somewhat comfortable. It is a good size and the handles are placed correctly. Unfortunately, it does not provide functionality in the way of gaming. That is where the NGC comes in. The stick on the NGC controller is way up on the left side. I like this far better than the Dual Shock 2 because the thumb's joint is to the bottom of the stick rather than to the left. So if I wanted to go to the right on the NGC controller, I would just move my thumb in an arc to the right. I found the Dual Shock 2 very unnatural. If I wanted to go to the right in the Dual Shock 2, I would have to push my thumb foreword to move to the right. And if you didn't understand that, I strongly suggest you graduate middle school before continuing reading. I especially don't like the position of the action buttons. n l s & r are arranged in the diamond formation. There is little wrong with that; I just think the NGC one is better. On the Gamecube controller, the B, X, & Y buttons are designed around the massive and ever malevolent A button. While this allows good button mashing, it still makes the other buttons very accessible. A dedicated camera stick might become handy during games that require you to know your surroundings or just to admire the attention to detail. Damn TRUTH commercials. Sorry, I’m watching T.V. right now. I know that the Dual Shock 2 is fully analogue whereas the NGC's controller is only partially analogue. But I seriously doubt that any game could take full advantage of a fully analogue system. Since virtually no one, other than the press, has held the NGC controller, it is hard to determine its feel. But from trusted sources, it is said to be very comfortable. That is about it for the controller portion and although this will not effect how the games look, I still look at controllers in a respectful manor.
These next pieces of information are of no value to the casual gamer but are nevertheless important. Gamecube's main processor is made by IBM and is 105Mhz faster than that of PS2. The Gamecube has a total of 43 Megs of ram as opposed to the 36 of the PS2. The NGC has 13gflops. This refers to the floating-point operations per second, which simplified is the maximum operations/second. This number is greater than PS2 and Xbox. On an important note, the NGC can do 8 simultaneous textures. That means one picture frame only has to go through the entire system once to put eight textures on. That is better than Xbox's 4 simultaneous textures and PS2's 1 simultaneous texture. This allows for greater frame and frame refresh rates on the NGC.
Now, the NGC’s logo. This is nothing short of excellent! The amount of detail that has gone into it has really paid of! I know that not too many people on FOG like the idea much, apart from Grix who also loves it like I do, but come on, you must admit that the way the G and C come into the cube shaped box is a masterpiece. It really does look really cool in purple as well. Also, I think it puts the PS2’s logo to shame.
To my favourite reason, the Gamecube’s optical discs. First off, they are much smaller than DVDs-3 inches in diameter. Second, They are accessed much more quickly than DVDs (load times comparable to that of cartridges). Unfortunately, they hold less data. 1.5gigs as opposed to 4.7gigs on true DVDs. But realistically, this isn't a disadvantage. They are cheaper to make; They hold double the full-motion video of a CD: They are impossible to burn. They have a dedicated inner encryption strip, They’re proprietary (meaning they are the first and only discs of their kind), no current CD or DVD laser can read them, add that to its size and capacity. They fit into your pocket easily: Who says you can't have two or more discs per game: With S3's texture compression (exclusive to Nintendo) textures can be compressed at a 6:1 ratio. This means that 4.7gigs of textures can fit into 783 Megs of space (plainly said- you can put data on these discs equal to or greater than DVDs. Nintendo and Matsushita have claimed that these discs will lead the way for electronic entertainment for the 21st century. Although this is somewhat unlikely, they do provide a convenient means to help Nintendo in their quest for world REdomination. Nintendo has even commented that this format for a handheld system beyond Game Boy Advanced is not out of the question.
That brings me to my next reason, the Game Boy Advance. Besides being the best handheld ever developed, it is also an integral part to the Gamecube. I do find Nintendo’s logic flawed though. Nintendo thinks that because so many people will buy the GBA, the endless possibilities of interactivity to the NGC will make people want to buy one. I have no doubt the GBA will sell extremely well, but I don’t think the endless possibilities of interactivity justify as a reason to buy a cube. But the possibilities are truly endless. Anyone seen the vid of Tony Hawkes?! These are just some of the possible uses, but plausible ones. You could use the GBA as a controller. You could use a blank cartridge as a memory card. You could build up character stats on the GBA and transfer them to its counterpart on the Gamecube. The GBA could be used as a sub screen (such as a radar on Rogue Squadron 2), and the list goes on. Well, that's about it for the advantages of a GBA with the Gamecube. I urge all readers to buy a Game Boy Advance because it is relatively inexpensive, it's very portable, a great system despite the fact that it has no 3D hardware, and already boasts a library of over 1000 games with plenty more slated for this year. People who have seen screens know that what it can do is as close to 3D as possible. Also, as we all know games are not just all about graphics, we have to take gameplay into account.
Many people say that PS2 looks better than the NGC, and that is an opinion. The NGC is a small & sleek cube that can be placed virtually anywhere (6x6x4 inches). That's all I have to say. I think that black NGC will be very popular. By the way, The NGC will be definitely cheaper than the PS2. At around $200 (still haven’t released a price in £’s yet) what gamer couldn’t afford that. The PS2 owners are saying that it has DVD capability. Well 1:Who doesn’t have a DVD player 2:You could buy a real better DVD player with a remote for half the money.
You know the thing I hate most, is when the PS(2) owners say that Nintendo (and its 3rd parties) only makes kiddy games. That is bull. I will now list games that are not all rated T but are not kiddy- Rogue Squadron, Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, Gauntlet Legends, F-Zero, AeroFighters Assault, Starcraft, Conker’s Bad Fur Day, etc. Maybe they do make kiddy games, but those kiddy games are extremely popular and sell very well. If the younger demographic had their say on the internet, Pokemon would be more popular than Final Fantasy and Zelda. Nintendo’s target demographic will definitely change. They know now that the prime audience is the teens and will change their directive. Let’s just hope the 3rd parties realise this too. Anyhow, when was the last time you saw a little kid complete games like Mario? It’s not very often. Okay, if you still wish to call Nintendo kiddies games, then I must confess that I love the kiddes games. They are fun to play on your own, with your mates, and often makes you feel better when you are feeling blue.
The PS2 for a fact has many 3rd parties. The most powerful argument that the PS2 people wield is that it will have better games. This directly relates to the 3rd parties on board with Sony. Several reasons why this will most likely change, 1-The NGC, for a fact, is easier to develop for, 2-Developers will realise the game sales are in quality and not quantity (PSO is a prime example of this) 3-Nintendo and Microsoft charge less per game. All the PS2 people cry to Squaresoft (as a last resort). It’s like the fate of an entire console is resting on that one 3rd party. It’s ridiculous because the PS2 and PSO owners are making it seem that way. News Flash-The gaming community does not revolve around Square. PS2 has (that I know of) absolutely no games that have revolutionised gaming. In the days of the 64, Mario 64 defined the new genre of 3D platforming (after that, Zelda), Golden Eye raised the bar for Multiplayer, and Rogue Squadron set the standards in digitised graphics, voices and sounds. I think this is a taste of what’s to come on Gamecube because of its delay to November. What has the PS2 done in 6 months? Not one game has revolutionised gaming. Not one game I've seen has graphics significantly more advanced than that of Dreamcast. Not one game I know of completely supports 5.1 OR HDTV. I’m almost finished.
Why would they (Sony) release such an expensive memory card? Sure, It can hold a lot compared to any other memory card, but if they are planning to release a hard drive so soon, why waste the consumers’ money. And couldn't they have invested SOME resources to R&D of a new controller. No, they have to give you this haphazard thing as an accessory. My point is -You are wasting money on the PS2-
Well, maybe not wasting your money, because you may like it, but I would still guide you towards the GAMECUBE.
I hope that I have cleared up some matters there, if I haven’t then you haven’t read my post. Please do read it though as I have spent ages on it. Hey, if you still think the PS2 is better, that’s cool… at the end of the day, it’s what we like as individuals that counts.
-M16-
I know this is meant to be why the Gamecube will win the console wars, but I would like to clear the compertion between the PS2 and the gamecube up. Why? I hear you all cry! One, Grix hasn’t done it yet :) and well, I think I owe it to Nintendo, and even Shigsy himself! After all, this is a big war between them both. Although both companies claim not to be going into wars with one another, there are still loads of gamers around the world that wish to continue this rivalry This isn’t a console wars post, just for people who think that PS2 is BETTER than Gamecube. First of all, it's not. I know, that sounded bias and unreasonable, but I have sufficient evidence to prove your ass wrong. I know that people who own a PS2 people are saying, the same old things. For example, it has DVD capability, it LOOKS cool (that’s an opinion), it has more games, etc. etc. etc. People even say that it's better because it's on a non-proprietary format. And no, giving it back to me and calling this trash will not work. It’ll only put you in denial. Also, the Gamecube is also referred to as the “NGC”. So, in no particular order, here's otherwise...
Now we've all heard one side of the story (or some of it) we will now discuss what Gamecube has. Some say that the NGC looks like a Fisher-Price purse, but a reasonable gamer knows that it's the games & what the system can do with those games that counts. The NGC has a graphics processor designed by ArtX, a subsidiary of ATI. PC gamers know that ATI is a respected company that makes great graphics accelerators. What does PS2 have, an "Emotion Engine". While, the name is somewhat catchy to the developers, what it can do is much more important. It can push 75 million polygons per second. That would seem to be a very impressive number. Unfortunately, Sony (like Microsoft) specifies polygon performance differently than Nintendo. 75 Million polys/sec specifies the number of RAW polygons. Raw meaning the most basic, wire frame, lacking real game effects, physics, colour, controller input, etc. Fortunately, from reliable sources, we have learned that current PS2 games, such as SSX or Madden 2001 only use 3-5 million per second (realistic). Of course, upcoming games such as FFX will do much better. Gamecube on the other hand, uses a "Flipper" chip designed by previously mentioned ArtX. This graphics processor can push 6-12 million polygons per second. This may seem small, but this is the actual performance number with all the effects on (lighting, shading, texture, etc.), with controller input, real-time physics, etc. So in that respect, and only in that respect, Gamecube is better.
Some Nintendo enemies (and loyalists alike) complain that the lack of DVD support is unacceptable. To challenge this, I present the company known in Japan as Matsushita. Better known in the US by the Panasonic brand name, this company is responsible for producing the mini-DVDs that will be the storage medium for the NGC. What Matsushita will do is manufacture a DVD player that plays Gamecube games. Note that it would be a DVD player that plays games and not a dedicated gaming machine like Gamecube. In such a comparison, the NGC and PS2 have no distinct advantage over each other.
And I find it strange that such an overhyped console would not have four-player capability. Well, the PS2 does but you still have to buy a MultiTap. Nintendo has been a company that has embraced and reaped the benefits of 4x multiplayer with huge sales of such games as Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mario Party (1,2, &3), & most importantly, Golden Eye and Perfect Dark.
It's not like no one can afford a MultiTap or anything but dishing out £20+ for 4x capability is just one more disadvantage of the PS2.
There have been quite number of disputes involving the controller. This is a particularly confusing subject to write about because it is very opinionated to the tastes of the individual. Well, this is my correct opinion and if you think this is trash, than you obviously haven’t seen the NGC controller. I think that the PS2 controller is somewhat comfortable. It is a good size and the handles are placed correctly. Unfortunately, it does not provide functionality in the way of gaming. That is where the NGC comes in. The stick on the NGC controller is way up on the left side. I like this far better than the Dual Shock 2 because the thumb's joint is to the bottom of the stick rather than to the left. So if I wanted to go to the right on the NGC controller, I would just move my thumb in an arc to the right. I found the Dual Shock 2 very unnatural. If I wanted to go to the right in the Dual Shock 2, I would have to push my thumb foreword to move to the right. And if you didn't understand that, I strongly suggest you graduate middle school before continuing reading. I especially don't like the position of the action buttons. n l s & r are arranged in the diamond formation. There is little wrong with that; I just think the NGC one is better. On the Gamecube controller, the B, X, & Y buttons are designed around the massive and ever malevolent A button. While this allows good button mashing, it still makes the other buttons very accessible. A dedicated camera stick might become handy during games that require you to know your surroundings or just to admire the attention to detail. Damn TRUTH commercials. Sorry, I’m watching T.V. right now. I know that the Dual Shock 2 is fully analogue whereas the NGC's controller is only partially analogue. But I seriously doubt that any game could take full advantage of a fully analogue system. Since virtually no one, other than the press, has held the NGC controller, it is hard to determine its feel. But from trusted sources, it is said to be very comfortable. That is about it for the controller portion and although this will not effect how the games look, I still look at controllers in a respectful manor.
These next pieces of information are of no value to the casual gamer but are nevertheless important. Gamecube's main processor is made by IBM and is 105Mhz faster than that of PS2. The Gamecube has a total of 43 Megs of ram as opposed to the 36 of the PS2. The NGC has 13gflops. This refers to the floating-point operations per second, which simplified is the maximum operations/second. This number is greater than PS2 and Xbox. On an important note, the NGC can do 8 simultaneous textures. That means one picture frame only has to go through the entire system once to put eight textures on. That is better than Xbox's 4 simultaneous textures and PS2's 1 simultaneous texture. This allows for greater frame and frame refresh rates on the NGC.
Now, the NGC’s logo. This is nothing short of excellent! The amount of detail that has gone into it has really paid of! I know that not too many people on FOG like the idea much, apart from Grix who also loves it like I do, but come on, you must admit that the way the G and C come into the cube shaped box is a masterpiece. It really does look really cool in purple as well. Also, I think it puts the PS2’s logo to shame.
To my favourite reason, the Gamecube’s optical discs. First off, they are much smaller than DVDs-3 inches in diameter. Second, They are accessed much more quickly than DVDs (load times comparable to that of cartridges). Unfortunately, they hold less data. 1.5gigs as opposed to 4.7gigs on true DVDs. But realistically, this isn't a disadvantage. They are cheaper to make; They hold double the full-motion video of a CD: They are impossible to burn. They have a dedicated inner encryption strip, They’re proprietary (meaning they are the first and only discs of their kind), no current CD or DVD laser can read them, add that to its size and capacity. They fit into your pocket easily: Who says you can't have two or more discs per game: With S3's texture compression (exclusive to Nintendo) textures can be compressed at a 6:1 ratio. This means that 4.7gigs of textures can fit into 783 Megs of space (plainly said- you can put data on these discs equal to or greater than DVDs. Nintendo and Matsushita have claimed that these discs will lead the way for electronic entertainment for the 21st century. Although this is somewhat unlikely, they do provide a convenient means to help Nintendo in their quest for world REdomination. Nintendo has even commented that this format for a handheld system beyond Game Boy Advanced is not out of the question.
That brings me to my next reason, the Game Boy Advance. Besides being the best handheld ever developed, it is also an integral part to the Gamecube. I do find Nintendo’s logic flawed though. Nintendo thinks that because so many people will buy the GBA, the endless possibilities of interactivity to the NGC will make people want to buy one. I have no doubt the GBA will sell extremely well, but I don’t think the endless possibilities of interactivity justify as a reason to buy a cube. But the possibilities are truly endless. Anyone seen the vid of Tony Hawkes?! These are just some of the possible uses, but plausible ones. You could use the GBA as a controller. You could use a blank cartridge as a memory card. You could build up character stats on the GBA and transfer them to its counterpart on the Gamecube. The GBA could be used as a sub screen (such as a radar on Rogue Squadron 2), and the list goes on. Well, that's about it for the advantages of a GBA with the Gamecube. I urge all readers to buy a Game Boy Advance because it is relatively inexpensive, it's very portable, a great system despite the fact that it has no 3D hardware, and already boasts a library of over 1000 games with plenty more slated for this year. People who have seen screens know that what it can do is as close to 3D as possible. Also, as we all know games are not just all about graphics, we have to take gameplay into account.
Many people say that PS2 looks better than the NGC, and that is an opinion. The NGC is a small & sleek cube that can be placed virtually anywhere (6x6x4 inches). That's all I have to say. I think that black NGC will be very popular. By the way, The NGC will be definitely cheaper than the PS2. At around $200 (still haven’t released a price in £’s yet) what gamer couldn’t afford that. The PS2 owners are saying that it has DVD capability. Well 1:Who doesn’t have a DVD player 2:You could buy a real better DVD player with a remote for half the money.
You know the thing I hate most, is when the PS(2) owners say that Nintendo (and its 3rd parties) only makes kiddy games. That is bull. I will now list games that are not all rated T but are not kiddy- Rogue Squadron, Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, Gauntlet Legends, F-Zero, AeroFighters Assault, Starcraft, Conker’s Bad Fur Day, etc. Maybe they do make kiddy games, but those kiddy games are extremely popular and sell very well. If the younger demographic had their say on the internet, Pokemon would be more popular than Final Fantasy and Zelda. Nintendo’s target demographic will definitely change. They know now that the prime audience is the teens and will change their directive. Let’s just hope the 3rd parties realise this too. Anyhow, when was the last time you saw a little kid complete games like Mario? It’s not very often. Okay, if you still wish to call Nintendo kiddies games, then I must confess that I love the kiddes games. They are fun to play on your own, with your mates, and often makes you feel better when you are feeling blue.
The PS2 for a fact has many 3rd parties. The most powerful argument that the PS2 people wield is that it will have better games. This directly relates to the 3rd parties on board with Sony. Several reasons why this will most likely change, 1-The NGC, for a fact, is easier to develop for, 2-Developers will realise the game sales are in quality and not quantity (PSO is a prime example of this) 3-Nintendo and Microsoft charge less per game. All the PS2 people cry to Squaresoft (as a last resort). It’s like the fate of an entire console is resting on that one 3rd party. It’s ridiculous because the PS2 and PSO owners are making it seem that way. News Flash-The gaming community does not revolve around Square. PS2 has (that I know of) absolutely no games that have revolutionised gaming. In the days of the 64, Mario 64 defined the new genre of 3D platforming (after that, Zelda), Golden Eye raised the bar for Multiplayer, and Rogue Squadron set the standards in digitised graphics, voices and sounds. I think this is a taste of what’s to come on Gamecube because of its delay to November. What has the PS2 done in 6 months? Not one game has revolutionised gaming. Not one game I've seen has graphics significantly more advanced than that of Dreamcast. Not one game I know of completely supports 5.1 OR HDTV. I’m almost finished.
Why would they (Sony) release such an expensive memory card? Sure, It can hold a lot compared to any other memory card, but if they are planning to release a hard drive so soon, why waste the consumers’ money. And couldn't they have invested SOME resources to R&D of a new controller. No, they have to give you this haphazard thing as an accessory. My point is -You are wasting money on the PS2-
Well, maybe not wasting your money, because you may like it, but I would still guide you towards the GAMECUBE.
I hope that I have cleared up some matters there, if I haven’t then you haven’t read my post. Please do read it though as I have spent ages on it. Hey, if you still think the PS2 is better, that’s cool… at the end of the day, it’s what we like as individuals that counts.
-M16-
Page:
And then you both woke up
:-D
:-D
LOL! It sure does!
Big posts like this just go to show...
Us Dan's really know what we're talking about :-)
Us Dan's really know what we're talking about :-)
I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the in's and out's of the variety of modem and broadband possibilities currently available, and likely to be available in the near future, but from what I do know it seems as if the whole move towards online gaming is going to be a slow and messy one.
The issues that need to be examined cause a very messy environment for the companies who would be responsible for the broadband/modem on-line gaming.
I'm not sure whether we're really going to see online gaming in a console environment until the next generation of games consoles, as right now there is no clear way through the problem.
The issues that need to be examined cause a very messy environment for the companies who would be responsible for the broadband/modem on-line gaming.
I'm not sure whether we're really going to see online gaming in a console environment until the next generation of games consoles, as right now there is no clear way through the problem.
Zeldapro wrote:
For starters the GC is Four
> players and will have a modem (a broadband one after launch), the
> PS2 is Two Players and a Modem is in development I think.
Broadband is not the way forward just yet. If they're putting a modem in the UK gamecube Nintendo need to give buyers a choice between the 56k version and a Broadband version. There is still not enough support for Broadband, and where there is it isn't always reliable and can be costly.
For starters the GC is Four
> players and will have a modem (a broadband one after launch), the
> PS2 is Two Players and a Modem is in development I think.
Broadband is not the way forward just yet. If they're putting a modem in the UK gamecube Nintendo need to give buyers a choice between the 56k version and a Broadband version. There is still not enough support for Broadband, and where there is it isn't always reliable and can be costly.
Time_Warp wrote:
> Zeldapro, how did the fencing go?
He's not started pinching stuff again, has he....?
;-)
> Zeldapro, how did the fencing go?
He's not started pinching stuff again, has he....?
;-)
Time_Warp wrote:
> Zeldapro, how did the fencing go?
I was e-mailed the results a few days ago and I am now the 28th best fencer in the UK for my age groups!
> Zeldapro, how did the fencing go?
I was e-mailed the results a few days ago and I am now the 28th best fencer in the UK for my age groups!
We were happy to thank!
Page: