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If you don't vote, then you can't really complain when promises are inevitably broken.
If you don't vote you can't swear whenever they come on the TV or radio.
If you don't vote you're saying they can do what the heck they like.
Whilst it may seem entirely futile, if you don't vote you haven't even tried to do anything about it.
This morning I figured that the Government is a little like Top Cat. They'll place a shiny coin in your hand, and tell you how great they are, but just before your fingers close around it they'll snatch it away with that little bit of string attached to it that you never noticed.
Mind you, when the choice is between a smug, lying, patronising sycophant, a man that looks like a particularly greasy sexual pervert, and a ginger, alcoholic gnone (and face facts, ginger is an issue, that's why Labour never got in under Kinnock), then I can see why you'd be tempted not to...
If you don't vote, then you can't really complain when promises are inevitably broken.
If you don't vote you can't swear whenever they come on the TV or radio.
If you don't vote you're saying they can do what the heck they like.
Whilst it may seem entirely futile, if you don't vote you haven't even tried to do anything about it.
This morning I figured that the Government is a little like Top Cat. They'll place a shiny coin in your hand, and tell you how great they are, but just before your fingers close around it they'll snatch it away with that little bit of string attached to it that you never noticed.
Mind you, when the choice is between a smug, lying, patronising sycophant, a man that looks like a particularly greasy sexual pervert, and a ginger, alcoholic gnone (and face facts, ginger is an issue, that's why Labour never got in under Kinnock), then I can see why you'd be tempted not to...
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MD, by not voting you automatically become part of the "mass" of non-voters who make 0 difference to society.
I've said it before and I'll say it AGAIN - your logic works if the assumption is that you're the only one who doesn't vote. You are not. If everyone thought like you then no one would vote, would they? So don't think like that and vote - it's easy.
I understand that your particular vote won't change anything, but your vote as part of something else does make a difference. That's what it's about - taking part in something. If you don't want to take part then fine, but you can't complain when you don't like it, because you aren't part of it.
I've said it before and I'll say it AGAIN - your logic works if the assumption is that you're the only one who doesn't vote. You are not. If everyone thought like you then no one would vote, would they? So don't think like that and vote - it's easy.
I understand that your particular vote won't change anything, but your vote as part of something else does make a difference. That's what it's about - taking part in something. If you don't want to take part then fine, but you can't complain when you don't like it, because you aren't part of it.
Given that your vote won't affect how bad the government is one jot, care to explain why?
I have voted! its my duty to vote, I voted for the RED team as it matches my Keyboard, my works uniform and my car! they are all red so I thought yeah! REd go for it, as for not voting? is that really an option? all these folks going on about how bad this goverment is or may be? then not to vote! how silly is that? Oh I see its the not vote so you cant blame me thing? naw that doesnt work every one who is old enough to vote should, its as simple as that.
But my presence in a mass doesn't make the slightest difference to the power of the mass.
Surely you understand?
The mass can change things. But I'm talking about one vote only.
My vote doesn't change the mass, and it doesn't change the result.
And if my vote doesn't actually count for anything, then it's purely symbolic.
I think you're struggling to differentiate between the effect of a single vote, the effect of a block of votes, and the effect of a single vote on the block.
The block determines the result.
But the single vote doesn't change the power of a block to win.
The collection of votes for Party X (can't use the me example, because I wouldn't vote for any of them, reasons (quite a long way) below) would not have their capacity to affect the result changed by the addition of a single vote.
A single vote changes nothing. A single vote will not change the result.
However you frame 'groups', the above statement still holds true.
And since my single vote won't change anything, I would need a different reason to vote, other than to actually count for anything.
Surely you understand?
The mass can change things. But I'm talking about one vote only.
My vote doesn't change the mass, and it doesn't change the result.
And if my vote doesn't actually count for anything, then it's purely symbolic.
I think you're struggling to differentiate between the effect of a single vote, the effect of a block of votes, and the effect of a single vote on the block.
The block determines the result.
But the single vote doesn't change the power of a block to win.
The collection of votes for Party X (can't use the me example, because I wouldn't vote for any of them, reasons (quite a long way) below) would not have their capacity to affect the result changed by the addition of a single vote.
A single vote changes nothing. A single vote will not change the result.
However you frame 'groups', the above statement still holds true.
And since my single vote won't change anything, I would need a different reason to vote, other than to actually count for anything.
I, and most people here, just see it as selish and irresponsable not to vote. Like I said, voting isn't an individual thing, it's a mass thing. If you vote then you are part of the masses that make a difference, rather than the masses that don't make a difference. I know which I'd rather be part of, dunno about you.
by not voting you're in the "apathy group", a group that would make a large difference if they joined another "group".
that's the point people are trying to make.
that's the point people are trying to make.
Timmargh wrote:
> You can hand it into a polling station. Got legs? Get walking.
>
> Or shut up.
Could do, is it 10 they close?
*Wanders round aimlessly looking for local station*
Heh, I'll have a hard time defending the individual apathist if I abandon him :^)
And I resent the 'or shut up'.
Like I said, it changes nothing, and so means nothing but a personal ritual.
The long post somewhere below puts out my full argument.
> You can hand it into a polling station. Got legs? Get walking.
>
> Or shut up.
Could do, is it 10 they close?
*Wanders round aimlessly looking for local station*
Heh, I'll have a hard time defending the individual apathist if I abandon him :^)
And I resent the 'or shut up'.
Like I said, it changes nothing, and so means nothing but a personal ritual.
The long post somewhere below puts out my full argument.
gerrid wrote:
> So exercise your control and vote. Your vote does make a difference -
> just not a big difference, but along with all the other votes it makes
> a big difference.
'All the other votes' make the same difference with or without me. That's the point I'm trying to get across.
My vote doesn't change anything.
Where the 'group' of votes does decide things, my vote doesn't change the effect of that group.
Whether I'm part of the group or not everything is exactly the same.
> If you don't vote then you're part of the problem, rather than the
> solution.
The problem is crap politicians. If you believe that any of the alternatives are not crap, then mass apathy facilitates the problem.
But that doesn't change the fact that my vote, or single non-vote, changes nothing.
> So exercise your control and vote. Your vote does make a difference -
> just not a big difference, but along with all the other votes it makes
> a big difference.
'All the other votes' make the same difference with or without me. That's the point I'm trying to get across.
My vote doesn't change anything.
Where the 'group' of votes does decide things, my vote doesn't change the effect of that group.
Whether I'm part of the group or not everything is exactly the same.
> If you don't vote then you're part of the problem, rather than the
> solution.
The problem is crap politicians. If you believe that any of the alternatives are not crap, then mass apathy facilitates the problem.
But that doesn't change the fact that my vote, or single non-vote, changes nothing.
Mumbai Duck wrote:
> Too late to post it now *shrugs*.
You can hand it into a polling station. Got legs? Get walking.
Or shut up.
> Too late to post it now *shrugs*.
You can hand it into a polling station. Got legs? Get walking.
Or shut up.
Mumbai Duck wrote:
> Sure, the masses have power, they can make a difference.
>
> But only you can make your vote, and yours is the only one you
> control.
> Regardless of whether you consider yourself part of a mass.
>
> Like I said, take yourself out of the masses, and the masses will
> elect exactly the same person.
>
> You personally still make zero difference.
So exercise your control and vote. Your vote does make a difference - just not a big difference, but along with all the other votes it makes a big difference.
If you don't vote then you're part of the problem, rather than the solution.
> Sure, the masses have power, they can make a difference.
>
> But only you can make your vote, and yours is the only one you
> control.
> Regardless of whether you consider yourself part of a mass.
>
> Like I said, take yourself out of the masses, and the masses will
> elect exactly the same person.
>
> You personally still make zero difference.
So exercise your control and vote. Your vote does make a difference - just not a big difference, but along with all the other votes it makes a big difference.
If you don't vote then you're part of the problem, rather than the solution.
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